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Mastrap · 08:03 PM

We're thinking about replacing our old (1994) Saab 900. One too many visits to the garage, with a repair bill that's just too high considering the age and value of the car.

Also my financial situation is changing and for tax reasons it would actually make sense for us to lease a new car. I've only ever bought use used cars in the past, generally outright with no finance so this is a bit of a departure for me. I've got to say that I am bit stumped by what's on offer.

Here's what we need a car for:

1. 80% city driving, but we do tend to make 300 km roundtrips fairly regularly - we spend a fair amount of time in the country.

2. We need decent cargo space. We love country fairs, markets etc. Stuff we buy needs to come home with us. Stuff we sell needs to be delivered.

3. We don't want an SUV but don't mind a crossover.

4. No kids yet, but planned during the lifetime of the car.

Our current shortlist is:

Volvo V50
Audi 4 Series
My wife really likes the Nissan Murano.

Any suggestions?

imitchellg5 · Dec 2, 2006, 09:20 PM

No Volvo. It's the Audi A4 by the way. A Murano is very nice, I've test driven one but ultimately went for a Xterra. Honda CR-V is also a good choice. Go for the Murano. If you like to go on hard Sunday drives though, go for a Subaru Forester 2.5XT.

macroy · Dec 2, 2006, 10:09 PM

I thought Murano was a SUV (as opposed to a x-over).

A4 is nice - and the avant should give you more storage room. While I'm not sure of their long term reliability - like BMW's your first 4 years (or 40K) is maintenance free in term of cost. And we're talking just about everything, breakpads, wiper blades etc.... I'd also look into the resale value. Which would steer you more towards Honda/Acura then..... Sedan wise, the TSX is a really good car.

Another car you may look at is the Mazdaspeed 3. I think that's one of the faster 4 cyl you can get these days.

Doofy · Dec 2, 2006, 10:18 PM

Audi allroad?

Spliffdaddy · Dec 2, 2006, 10:33 PM

Make your wife happy and get the Murano.

Audi makes nice, fun-to-drive cars that historically aren't very reliable.

Personally I like Volvos, but resale value tends to be rather dismal - making leases expensive, as well.

Given the three choices I'd have to choose the Nissan. The fact that your wife likes it makes the choice even easier.

Rev-O · Dec 2, 2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by macroy

I thought Murano was a SUV (as opposed to a x-over).

A4 is nice - and the avant should give you more storage room. While I'm not sure of their long term reliability - like BMW's your first 4 years (or 40K) is maintenance free in term of cost. And we're talking just about everything, breakpads, wiper blades etc.... I'd also look into the resale value. Which would steer you more towards Honda/Acura then..... Sedan wise, the TSX is a really good car.

Another car you may look at is the Mazdaspeed 3. I think that's one of the faster 4 cyl you can get these days.

x-over is a nice marketing term for 'all-wheel-drive station wagon', which is what the Murano is: an all wheel drive station wagon. Nothing wrong with station wagons except most men cringe at the word!

Audi has traditionally gotten hammered by Consumer Reports on reliability, for whatever that is worth.

On the original list I'd pick the Murano. Also consider an awd Honda Element, or if you want something small but roomy, an awd Toyota Matrix. Both of those have nice room, awd, and a ton of versatility. The Element has a higher 'hip' factor than the Matrix, imho.

I have a Honda Ridgeline, which I am thrilled with. Very roomy, very solid, very safe. Tons of storage between the back seat and the huge trunk under the bed. Not so good on gas though, but comparable to every other smallish SUV (Pilot/Explorer/Trailblazer/Cherokee/etc. As a person who has driven pick up trucks and commercial trucks daily for the past 15 years at work, the Ridgeline is my favorite. It is not a burly-man truck that will haul 2 tons of rock while towing a train engine, but for 90% of what most people need a truck for (Home Depot, Light towing, driving in snow, etc) is is very nice.

Mastrap · Dec 2, 2006, 11:16 PM

I've just been looking at some websites and calculated a couple of leases. The Volvo, being more expensive than the Murano, comes in about $300 less a month in lease payments. How on earth does that work?

I'll be visiting a Nissan and a Volvo dealership tomorrow.

turtle777 · Dec 3, 2006, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Audi makes nice, fun-to-drive cars that historically aren't very reliable.

Audi has come a long way.

They just beat BMW and Mercedes in customer satisfaction surveys in Germany.

-t

Doofy · Dec 3, 2006, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I've just been looking at some websites and calculated a couple of leases. The Volvo, being more expensive than the Murano, comes in about $300 less a month in lease payments. How on earth does that work?

Better resale value when you're done with the Volvo?

ebuddy · Dec 3, 2006, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I've just been looking at some websites and calculated a couple of leases. The Volvo, being more expensive than the Murano, comes in about $300 less a month in lease payments. How on earth does that work?

I'll be visiting a Nissan and a Volvo dealership tomorrow.

If Volvo produces a lease anything like Ford, look out. I've heard some nasty things about Ford leases. Make sure you calculate the money factors in both, but I'd be willing to bet the Volvo resale is a bit better.

typoon · Dec 3, 2006, 08:32 AM

I recently just got the 07 CRV. It's more of a Cross over now and gets good gas milage. If you want something with power it's not your choice but if you want someting you can drive, get good gas milage with A LOT of storage space I'd suggest taking a look at the CRV

imitchellg5 · Dec 3, 2006, 11:47 AM

The Murano is a cross-over. It's AWD with a CVT based off of the Maxima. The CR-V is more of a car based SUV, not a crossover. Please do yourself a favor and don't get a Volvo. It will be just as bad as your Saab. I'm speaking from experience.

Macfreak7 · Dec 3, 2006, 12:06 PM

Even tho. you haven't mentioned it, and I'm not sure how much this would cost to lease, but do look at the BMW X3. Never much cared for it initially, until I saw one on track. They handle VERY nicely for an SAV.
The 328i wagon might be a great choice too.

:edit:Just checked, bmwusa.com shows some kind of a "special lease offer" for the X3.

Sbtrfuge · Dec 3, 2006, 12:42 PM

The Honda Fit.

A friend got one of these with a 5spd. Fantastic car. Fun to drive, good mpg, great cargo (with only 2 people they shoved 2 bikes, a laptop, and a bunch of A/V gear AND enough luggage for a 1.5 week vacation in it, then roadtripped the thing up to Toronto from IL. It's fantastic in the city, and the flip around multi-use rear seats allow you to shove a pretty surprising amount of things into it. PLUS, it's a honda so it's resale value is freakin insane. That said, I'd still wait a year or two and pick up a used one.

I know you're looking at bigger vehicles, but I think you should check this out before you get one. This thing is suprisingly big inside, and very nicely constructed.

Weezer · Dec 3, 2006, 01:08 PM

that car clearly enjoys sitting up front in the short bus

imitchellg5 · Dec 3, 2006, 01:25 PM

The Fit is as slow as molasses though...

Timo · Dec 3, 2006, 01:58 PM

FWIW I'd would (I did) get a VW instead of an Audi -- didn't see a meaningful difference between models I was comparing.

Mastrap · Dec 3, 2006, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

The Murano is a cross-over. It's AWD with a CVT based off of the Maxima. The CR-V is more of a car based SUV, not a crossover. Please do yourself a favor and don't get a Volvo. It will be just as bad as your Saab. I'm speaking from experience.

Don't forget, the Saab is 14 years old and until now has been pretty flawless. 2 services a year, no problems. It's only in the last year that it has started playing up.

imitchellg5 · Dec 3, 2006, 02:16 PM

Well then get a Volvo and see. I have a 1995 850 and a 2004 S40. Both have had horrible reliability. The S40 isn't as bad as the 850, but it is still unacceptable. It goes back to the dealer at least once or twice a month. At least it's under warranty. They both like to rattle a lot too.

ShortcutToMoncton · Dec 3, 2006, 02:32 PM

The all-new Infiniti G Series has the same base price as the Murano.

And it's a seriously nice car. Seriously. Nice.

Forget the cargo!

greg

Mastrap · Dec 3, 2006, 02:35 PM

Just checked out the BMW X3 series. I didn't think it would be within budget, but it is. Test drive requested.

Mastrap · Dec 3, 2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

The all-new Infiniti G Series has the same base price as the Murano.

And it's a seriously nice car. Seriously. Nice.

Forget the cargo!

greg

Without a doubt. It's a great car, my business partner drives one. But no cargo is a deal killer, unfortunately.

Art Vandelay · Dec 3, 2006, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Well then get a Volvo and see. I have a 1995 850 and a 2004 S40. Both have had horrible reliability. The S40 isn't as bad as the 850, but it is still unacceptable. It goes back to the dealer at least once or twice a month. At least it's under warranty. They both like to rattle a lot too.

It's hard to compare a 12yo car and a Mitsubishi (the original S40s were made by Mitsubishi for Volvo) to anything Volvo makes today. I have a 2005 S40 (the current model) and it has been rock solid in reliability. It's never had to go in for service except at the designated intervals. I only had one rattle and it was fixed. It was a fastener in the mirror casing that wasn't snapped in completely.

Railroader · 03:05 PM

nevermind...

Mastrap · Dec 3, 2006, 02:55 PM

It's a small hatchback. They pretty much all look the same, no?
Anyway, I don't think Sbtrfuge is Ca$h.

Railroader · Dec 3, 2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

It's a small hatchback. They pretty much all look the same, no?
Anyway, I don't think Sbtrfuge is Ca$h.

Yep. I removed my post. I don't want to risk getting banned for baiting a banned member. Stupid rule I know, but I have been banned for this before.

Do a search on his postings. Exactly the same. I think the first person to pick up on it was Doofy.

Railroader · Dec 3, 2006, 03:09 PM

BTW: I think the Audi or the Volvo are good choices.

But if you want to go cheaper you could consider the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. Very roomy and peppy.

ShortcutToMoncton · Dec 3, 2006, 03:48 PM

I will admit, I've really been liking the look of the A4.

greg

imitchellg5 · Dec 3, 2006, 03:50 PM

A4's are very nice, especially with the 6 speed.

RobOnTheCape · Dec 3, 2006, 04:10 PM

If you might consider the Murano sizewise, then I'd put a plug in for the Honda Element. Going on year three with about 30k miles a year, and not a single mechanical problem wrong so far. Very roomy, pockets, compartments, seats pop out easily or swing up to the sides. Not flashy, but damn roomy, dependable and a pretty good deal.

Sbtrfuge · Dec 3, 2006, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

The Fit is as slow as molasses though...

Actually it's not that bad. Although it only has 110hp, it also only weighs 2400lbs. This = about a 16.5-17 second quarter mile. While that's not fast, it's not exactly slow either. Besides, the acceleration wasn't what made this car fun... it was the handling and response. It was extremely fun to drive while in the city.

Don't believe me? Go test drive one. Just make sure it's a 5spd. It's a pretty fun car to toss around on tight little city streets. It feels like a little go-kart.

Also, it sips fuel, getting up to 38mpg, probably more if you drove it very gently.

Sbtrfuge · Dec 3, 2006, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

BTW: I think the Audi or the Volvo are good choices.

But if you want to go cheaper you could consider the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. Very roomy and peppy.

Ever been in one? The interior is pretty horrid IMHO. Hard plastic everywhere, and obnoxious gauge cluster and styling that screams "pontiac excitement" to 40 yr old wannabe hip people.

Apart from the styling I like that car though. Good pickup, decent braking, and a very versatile size for almost anything.

imitchellg5 · Dec 3, 2006, 04:21 PM

Yeah I imagine Fits might get along good at sea level. I forget ( I live in Colorado Springs) that normally-aspirated cars are much slower here. The Matrix is dead now, but the Vibe is still kickin'. The interior quality is better than normal GM, but it isn't great. You can get AWD, a nice bonus if you live in a snow-belt state. Plus it's hard to option one out over 20k.

Railroader · Dec 3, 2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge

Ever been in one?

Yes. An excellent car for the money. I couldn't care less if people thought I drove an ugly car. I am not as shallow as you I guess.

Sbtrfuge · Dec 3, 2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Yes. An excellent car for the money. I couldn't care less if people thought I drove an ugly car. I am not as shallow as you I guess.

Why are you attacking me? I did not say it was a bad car, nor did I attack your character. What is your dysfunction?

Mastrap · Dec 3, 2006, 06:38 PM

Yes, I took a look at the Toyota website yesterday. The Matrix is just too small - if I wanted a car of that size I'd get the Audi A3.

We've narrowed the choice down to Volvo V50 or the CX 70. Will be test driving one on the 16th.
The other potential candidate is the BMW X3. I like the BMW a lot, but we'll see which one we enjoy driving.

I have been considering domestic cars, but nothing really grabbed me. The Vibe is a pretty car but I've yet to meet a Pontiac where I liked the finish. It's all a bit plasticky in there.

G4ME · Dec 3, 2006, 07:23 PM

look at a passat wagon?

how about this volvo? I could so see you coming back form an estate auction with a nice armoire in the back

The Volvette: TT LS1-powered 740 Wagon - Autoblog

jbmitt · Dec 3, 2006, 08:27 PM

Another vote here for a Subaru.

I'd suggest either the Forester or Outback Wagon. They are some of the safest cars around, retain their value, and come well equipped.

Mastrap · Dec 3, 2006, 08:32 PM

Subaru: I like the car, but I don't like the look. Neither does my wife. We know they're good cars, but they're out of race.

indigoimac · Dec 3, 2006, 09:44 PM

Here's what I would recommend as you want some sort of crossover/small wagon, you like subarus but not the look, and already own a saab...hmmm

How about the Saab 9-2x AWD, it is essentially the Subaru Impreza wagon w/ a new body and interior, the engine and all other components are straight from Subaru, and if you get the Aero version they have turbo'd Subaru's standard 2.5L 4-cyl. Personally, I have not driven it but I took a long hard look at it before just deciding to pay out my current lease.

Also Saab Leases through GMAC, personally I have had fantastic experiences w/ them and highly recommend them.

Railroader · Dec 3, 2006, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sbtrfuge

Why are you attacking me? I did not say it was a bad car, nor did I attack your character. What is your dysfunction?

Get off your high horse. You play an awful victim.

Sorry for the interruption everyone. I'll stop here.

Art Vandelay · Dec 3, 2006, 09:50 PM

It might be a challenge to get a 9-2x since they've been discontinued.

ink · Dec 3, 2006, 09:55 PM

The Murano is great; but if you want diesel, then the A4 (or A3 hatchback?) would be even better in fuel regards.

I'm thinking about a used Touareg right now.

cjrivera · Dec 3, 2006, 11:15 PM

My vote would be for the Infinti FX45 or Mazda CX-7.
(Actually I'm waiting to see what Ford has with the Ford Edge or Lincoln MKX...)

I wasn't too thrilled with the X3 that I test drove. Very harsh/bumpy ride for a crossover vehicle.

miserereiam · Dec 3, 2006, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Subaru: I like the car, but I don't like the look. Neither does my wife. We know they're good cars, but they're out of race.

Two things: If style is that important to you, Kilbey says you are shallow. Also, if style is that important, why not just buy the one you think looks best and forget everything else?

Railroader · Dec 3, 2006, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by miserereiam

Two things: If style is that important to you, Kilbey says you are shallow. Also, if style is that important, why not just buy the one you think looks best and forget everything else?

Who's Kilbey?

the_glassman · Dec 3, 2006, 11:31 PM

Railroader · Dec 3, 2006, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by the_glassman

A friend of mine had one of those and loved it.

Art Vandelay · Dec 3, 2006, 11:36 PM

Same platform as the Volvo V50 that you're seriously looking at.

Mastrap · 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by cjrivera

Mazda CX-7.

That's another nice looking car. I'll be taking a look at that, thanks!
The Infinity while very lice, is over budget.