[mattyb]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

That's a good point... Also, what happens if I just create a blank MP3 file the same length as a real track I wanted to steal and tagged it with that track's info, could I trick iTunes into downloading that track even though I didn't ever own it?

Thankyou.

Look like a business plan!!!!!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Well, if said hypothetical worker puts that file in a public folder, she deserves to get flogged naked in the town square. But does iCloud automatically and necessarily make file access any more public than it currently is? I don't think it should, but perhaps you're more up to date on this facet of the announcement.

I have no more info than you do, but even then, it sounds like it would be so easy for a company worker to accidentally put something into the public folder, opening up the potential for all sorts of legal issues.

The obvious solution for dealing with sensitive data is to disable iCloud altogether on that computer, but then will there be an old-fashioned sync option available for those that want to get a document onto their iPad w/o putting it in the cloud?

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

But what about music streaming from the iCloud ?

W/o it, it's just half-assed.

-t

I think Apple has learned a lot from their disastrous MobileMe roll out. My guess is they are releasing iCloud features in multiple steps.

Step 1: Sync Music
Step 2: Stream Music
[insert "Step 3: Collect Underpants" joke here]

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

I wonder what kind of grief that is going to cause us Hackintosh folks....

It may, if Apple is really strict and doesn't allow you to make your own install DVD or flash drive. I'd think there would have to be a secondary option to do so. If system administrators are stuck having to manually download OS images to every computer they administer, I don't think they'll be particularly happy.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

So the 30G of music that John Doe downloaded illegally is just going to magically be accepted by Apple? Music laundering?

Shhh!!! Quiet you big mouth. Some music exec might be reading this thread.

Originally Posted by besson3c

The obvious solution for dealing with sensitive data is to disable iCloud altogether on that computer, but then will there be an old-fashioned sync option available for those that want to get a document onto their iPad w/o putting it in the cloud?

Or you can just encrypt the data.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Thankyou.

Look like a business plan!!!!!

I can't think of a way around people doing that, can you?

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It may, if Apple is really strict and doesn't allow you to make your own install DVD or flash drive. I'd think there would have to be a secondary option to do so. If system administrators are stuck having to manually download OS images to every computer they administer, I don't think they'll be particularly happy.

Yeah, I hadn't even thought of that. We have 15 Macs here in our office. Do we need to download a 4 gig file for each one?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Or you can just encrypt the data.

Yes, but all I'm saying is that something like this that is so easy to use that you don't even have to think about it sure makes these sorts of "accidents" easy.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Yes, but all I'm saying is that something like this that is so easy to use that you don't even have to think about it sure makes these sorts of "accidents" easy.

I doubt privet enterprise or government will use iCould.

[Doofy]

I'm liking Lion Server for $50.
The rest looks like idiocy.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CollinG3G4 

I doubt privet enterprise or government will use iCould.

I agree, but what about those in private enterprise or government that would want to use an iPad?

I hope that there is a very clear indication in the initial saving process of a document that their document will be stored online and making them accept this dialog box or choose another save location. I think this is the best bet for not only minimizing accidents, but also to make people who are otherwise uncomfortable with the idea of their stuff being online more comfortable with knowing that they are in the driver's seat.

[Big Mac]

I wonder how they're going to handle converting MobileMe email only sub-accounts. I guess they'll just get spun off into their own accounts.

[Thorzdad]

So, what's really in Lion for mooks like me who aren't interested in the cloud, or gesture-based computing?

[Big Mac]

250 features. As always.

There are lots of nice-looking features in Lion actually. I'm starting to really be bothered by the fact that Windows 7 is my primary OS now.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

So, what's really in Lion for mooks like me who aren't interested in the cloud, or gesture-based computing?

Mook?

A term coined by Douglas Rushkoff in an episode of PBS's "Frontline" entitled "The Merchants of Cool." Mooks are archetypal young males(teens-early 20s) who act like moronic boneheads. They are self centered simpletons who live a drunken frat-boy lifestyle(or are frat-boys). Examples can be found anytime someone watches "Jackass." Rushkoff claimed that the media glorifies this ideal and stifles natural self expression, however, some people might argue teenage boys have always acted like morons(its actually a long-standing stereotype). Nonetheless, standardized conformist dumbass-culture behind a veneer of exhuberance is a scary notion indeed.

I'm no mook (too old), but I'm not interested in 'da cloud' either, except maybe for backups.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

That's a good point... Also, what happens if I just create a blank MP3 file the same length as a real track I wanted to steal and tagged it with that track's info, could I trick iTunes into downloading that track even though I didn't ever own it?

I think Apple will catch blank files, but NOT necessarily catch the difference between a self-ripped file and a file downloaded from bittorrent.

E.g., Apple could you technology like Shazam to analyse if the song is the same as the tags.
Although, that's probably a bit more involved, so I don't think Steve's "few minutes" would make that happen.

I'm prwetty sure the MI demanded sufficient safeguards so that "stealing" isn't going to be too easy.
It's definitely going to be possible to fool iTunes.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I can't think of a way around people doing that, can you?

So ?

People today send the spreadhseet with social security numbers via email to their iPad, w/o encryption of course.

How is iCloud going to make it any less secure ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I'm starting to really be bothered by the fact that Windows is my primary OS now.

Welcome to 2005.

-t

[Thorzdad]

Well, I'm looking down the feature list on the Lion home page at Apple. Let's see...
Gestures. Nope. No interest in buying a trackpad for the iMac.
Full-Screen Apps. Um...Whatever. Not a big sell for me.
Mission Control. Well...I don't use Dashboard or Expose very much now beyond the rare simple search. And I never use Spaces. And see above for Full-Screen Apps. So...meh.
App Store. Have it. Don't use it. It's not like I buy software every week. But, I guess it's the future, regardless.
Launchpad. A prettier, snazzier version of the Applications folder on the Dock? Ok, I guess. Very iOS.
Resume. I wasn't aware this was an issue, since I don't do software updates while working. But, sure. I guess.
Auto Save and Versions. Maybe. I can see where some people would like this.
Air Drop. Sounds cool. Handy. If it works between a Mac and an iPhone, that would be great.
Mail. Not excited about full-screen Mail. Hope full-screen can be turned-off.

So, up-front, I'm not seeing anything that would make have to be the first in my neighborhood to upgrade. And, yeah, the cloud is lost on me. Just not interested. Good thing the price is nice and low. If this had been a $100 upgrade, I'm pretty sure my iMac would remain at 10.6.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think Apple will catch blank files, but NOT necessarily catch the difference between a self-ripped file and a file downloaded from bittorrent.

Checksum every song. That's but a few minutes to do your entire library.
Will they let you use songs which you didn't download from iTunes in the first place? (i.e. songs which you could have torrented or ripped off a friend's CD)
Doubt it.

[ajprice]

So With it being App Store only, it looks like as a Leopard user I'd have to buy Snow Leopard while I still can and then be able to download it from that. Have they released any minimum system specs for it yet?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Will they let you use songs which you didn't download from iTunes in the first place? (i.e. songs which you could have torrented or ripped off a friend's CD)
Doubt it.

Of course, that was the point that Steve made with the $25 / year option.
It will allow you to exchange your self-ripped files with 256bit AAC non-DRM.

So, a simple checksum won't do, because you could have ripped it in all kinds of fashions.
It's gotta be some smart fingerprinting thing like Shazam.

-t

[Big Mac]

Are you talking about Apple having an automated way to ferret out illict downloads from personal CD rips? I don't think it would be possible for them to devise a reliable scheme to do that.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

So With it being App Store only, it looks like as a Leopard user I'd have to buy Snow Leopard while I still can and then be able to download it from that. Have they released any minimum system specs for it yet?

I think it's Core 2 Duo and 2 gigs of RAM.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Of course, that was the point that Steve made with the $25 / year option.

I've got better things to do than watch Steve.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It will allow you to exchange your self-ripped files with 256bit AAC non-DRM.

So, a simple checksum won't do, because you could have ripped it in all kinds of fashions. It's gotta be some smart fingerprinting thing like Shazam.

Hmmm. Seems like that'd take longer than "minutes".

[Big Mac]

I can't believe they're not going to have a low-key boxed DVD option along with downloading. Some people don't have fast, reliable broadband yet.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

So ?

People today send the spreadhseet with social security numbers via email to their iPad, w/o encryption of course.

How is iCloud going to make it any less secure ?

-t

My response was IRT iTunes match stealing

[Sealobo]

Steve is skinnier than ever.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I can't believe they're not going to have a low-key boxed DVD option along with downloading. Some people don't have fast, reliable broadband yet.

Same here, my internet right now is about 4 mbps max. Disappointing.

[kenna]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

Steve is skinnier than ever.

Apart from that, he seemed okay. Has he placed a date on returning to work or do people still feel he is really ill?

I'm assuming all in this thread have yet to watch the Keynote? I thought it was one of the best Keynote's in recent years (or at least since I started watching about 4 years ago).

Very excited about the 10 new features that they showed for OS X Lion. I really like the look of mail, particularly how the conversations are easily separated now.

iOS to me, was the highlight of the show. How Safari is going to be multi-tabbed in iOS 5 as well as including a Reader is very cool.

I thought the iCloud service was also very useful as I do like to share my photos (particularly between iPad and iPhone). The idea that my photographs will be readily available across those two devices in particular, is exciting.

[Doofy]

They'll have a boxed option, surely?
Isn't the App Store thing just for people who want to upgrade on the day of release?

[gradient]

We're finally going to be able to search mail body text in iOS!! About freaking time! I'm looking forward to location-based reminders in iOS as well; that'll be fantastic. I'm pretty iffy on the file-storage side of the iCloud setup, though. I sure like being able to just drag 'n drop anything i want into my iDisk and have it available on my iPhone. I may end up moving over the drop-box full time (actually not sure why I haven't already).

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Checksum every song. That's but a few minutes to do your entire library.
Will they let you use songs which you didn't download from iTunes in the first place? (i.e. songs which you could have torrented or ripped off a friend's CD)
Doubt it.

I was thinking about checksumming too, but the problem is the way your track is encoded will change the checksum, and tracks that come from compilation albums might have different signatures too.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It's gotta be some smart fingerprinting thing like Shazam.

-t

Yeah, which I know nothing about... Apple better hope this is pretty bulletproof or else they may be exposing their 18 million tracks to all you can download for $30/year.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I was thinking about checksumming too, but the problem is the way your track is encoded will change the checksum, and tracks that come from compilation albums might have different signatures too.

I know. The whole thing seems a little bizarre - are Apple really going to allow the possibility of people uploading pirated tracks onto their servers? I mean, have Apple got so much spare cash knocking around that they want to give a lot of it to record companies when the lawsuits come flooding in?

[ort888]

So what happens when millions of apple users all try and download a 4 gig file at the exact same time?

Can I really pick up someones password locked iPhone and snap a picture of my junk with it?

[lpkmckenna]

For everyone wondering about iTunes Match and pirated music, let's try to remember one important fact: people who steal music are unlikely to pay $25 just to sync their devices. And if they did, it means Apple and the music industry have managed to get $25 from someone who they couldn't get $25 from before. This is free money for the record industry, they lose nothing, they only gain.

No one is gonna waste time making phoney music files with metadata on them just to pay $25 for the privilege to transform them into real music. It's easier to download it from a torrent site.

[lpkmckenna]

Watching the keynote now. Steve is really skinny, and his voice sounds different, like Geddy Lee or something.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

For everyone wondering about iTunes Match and pirated music, let's try to remember one important fact: people who steal music are unlikely to pay $25 just to sync their devices. And if they did, it means Apple and the music industry have managed to get $25 from someone who they couldn't get $25 from before. This is free money for the record industry, they lose nothing, they only gain.

What's this "record industry" entity and how can I join it? I mean, I don't recall having a contract with Apple about this iCloud thingy so I must be outside this "record industry" you speak of. Does this mean that those paying the $25 will take special care not to upload my shizz to Apple's servers or that Apple will take special care to make sure I get my $0.00001 royalty if they do?

This whole thing ain't going to wash. It'll end up being restricted to iTMS stuff only, or removed from the next incarnation of iCloud. Remember when iTunes (the app) could stream over the Internet to your friends?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

For everyone wondering about iTunes Match and pirated music, let's try to remember one important fact: people who steal music are unlikely to pay $25 just to sync their devices. And if they did, it means Apple and the music industry have managed to get $25 from someone who they couldn't get $25 from before. This is free money for the record industry, they lose nothing, they only gain.

No one is gonna waste time making phoney music files with metadata on them just to pay $25 for the privilege to transform them into real music. It's easier to download it from a torrent site.

This.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

This whole thing ain't going to wash. It'll end up being restricted to iTMS stuff only, or removed from the next incarnation of iCloud. Remember when iTunes (the app) could stream over the Internet to your friends?

This might be one of the few times uncle Doof is wrong.

Remember the rumors about Apple being in negotiations with the big labels. It's been a year or so.
I'm pretty sure there re bullet proof contracts, and the reason why it took so long was the big labels thinking it through a million times. This is NOT just an accident.

-t

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

They'll have a boxed option, surely?
Isn't the App Store thing just for people who want to upgrade on the day of release?

According to the keynote, it will only be available from the Mac App Store, not on DVD. I'm pretty confident that the whole App Store download and install process will still work the day after release and beyond.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

This might be one of the few times uncle Doof is wrong.

Remember the rumors about Apple being in negotiations with the big labels. It's been a year or so.
I'm pretty sure there re bullet proof contracts, and the reason why it took so long was the big labels thinking it through a million times. This is NOT just an accident.

I haven't been in negotiations with Apple or signed a contract allowing my intellectual property to touch their cloud servers. That was my point - the "music industry" isn't just the RIAA yet this new process seems to allow for any music to be uploaded to the cloud.
Thus, it's going to have to be restricted in some way or Apple are going to have to do a lot of "negotiating" with independent labels and artistes - probably in a courtroom.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by chabig 

According to the keynote, it will only be available from the Mac App Store, not on DVD. I'm pretty confident that the whole App Store download and install process will still work the day after release and beyond.

On release of Lion, Apple will probably remove Snow Leopard from their sales outlets (like they do with every previous incarnation of everything).
So how does one access the App Store if you're coming from Tiger or Leopard, don't have SL and you've put a new HD in?
Makes no sense. They'll release on DVD, for sure.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

That was my point - the "music industry" isn't just the RIAA yet this new process seems to allow for any music to be uploaded to the cloud.

As I understand it, NO music is uploaded to the cloud. Apple has all of the music already.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by chabig 

As I understand it, NO music is uploaded to the cloud. Apple has all of the music already.

You understand it incorrectly then.

http://www.apple.com/icloud/features/

If you want all the benefits of iTunes in the Cloud for music you haven’t purchased from iTunes, iTunes Match is the perfect solution. It lets you store your entire collection, including music you’ve ripped from CDs or purchased somewhere other than iTunes. For just $24.99 a year.2

Here’s how it works: iTunes determines which songs in your collection are available in the iTunes Store. Any music with a match is automatically added to your iCloud library for you to listen to anytime, on any device. Since there are more than 18 million songs in the iTunes Store, most of your music is probably already in iCloud. All you have to upload is what iTunes can’t match. Which is much faster than starting from scratch. And all the music iTunes matches plays back at 256-Kbps iTunes Plus quality — even if your original copy was of lower quality.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

On release of Lion, Apple will probably remove Snow Leopard from their sales outlets (like they do with every previous incarnation of everything).
So how does one access the App Store if you're coming from Tiger or Leopard, don't have SL and you've put a new HD in?
Makes no sense. They'll release on DVD, for sure.

I'll just trust Apple on this. They said no DVDs, so I'll take their word for it. That means they'd have to continue selling Snow Leopard on disc. I see no problem with that. Apple isn't stupid. I'm sure they've thought this through.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You understand it incorrectly then.

OK. Only the subset of your collection that isn't already available from iTunes gets uploaded. If you have a problem with that, I'm sure there will be a way to prevent it.

[Kerrigan]

I know iCloud is going to be a success because of the negative reception it's getting here.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by chabig 

OK. Only the subset of your collection that isn't already available from iTunes gets uploaded. If you have a problem with that, I'm sure there will be a way to prevent it.

How, exactly? The stuff which gets uploaded is the stuff which Apple can't match, thus hasn't got a fingerprint for. So how can they tell when my shizz is being loaded onto their servers?