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Hawkeye_a · Aug 5, 2004, 03:47 AM

According to a headline of the MacNN news site, Linux has overtaken the MacOS as the number 2 OS.
Apple really needs to develop a cheaper way of making computers. I'm starting to think they should have just reduced prices of the current iMac to make it more affordable to more ppl instead of developing an entirely new design. The entire price graps needs t be shifted down across all Apple products.
Good grief.

macaddict0001 · Aug 5, 2004, 03:59 AM

well that's just in terms of usage it doesn't mean that one is better than the other.

MallyMal · Aug 5, 2004, 04:47 AM

What bugs me more than anything is that if the trend continues developers may find it more profitable to build for Linux than for the Mac. However, unless you got some pull at Apple all we can do is armchair quarterback and rant about what *we think* Apple should do.

Sometimes I really think Apple isolates itself just to be different even though it may be a detriment to company in the long run. Me, I like choice. I like having as many developers as possible on the platform no matter who they are. Developers are the what keep a platform alive. And to attract more developers Apple must grow their marketshare.

The above statements are why can never understand why some Mac users always tell critics/developers "Leave we don't need you on Mac". Truthfully, Apple needs every customer and developer it can get. And please don't ever believe the hype that Apple doesn't want marketshare. That is called spin. It's a business. Businesses are here to provide a product/service and make money. If Apple jumped up from 3% to 10% marketshare do you actually think Apple would say nothing about? No, Jobs would be on stage talkin' bout "It's the year of the Marketshare".

Langdon · Aug 5, 2004, 04:51 AM

How many of the computers with Linux use it as the primary OS? I bet 90% of those computers still use Windows and just have a dual boot with Linux as a plaything OS.

cszar2001 · Aug 5, 2004, 04:59 AM

According to a Mac site here in Germany Apple has problems with supplying it`s dealers with enough G5`s, Ipod`s, Displays and everything else.

They could sell a lot more - if they could deliver the stuff in time.

And as for Linux overtaking OS X: don`t forget China. Linux will eventually overtake Windows too.

AKcrab · Aug 5, 2004, 05:05 AM

Free vs. $$$$.
Free always wins.

CD Hanks · Aug 5, 2004, 05:08 AM

Apple should see Linux/OSS as a powerful ally than a competitor (ala Microsoft).

RiSE · Aug 5, 2004, 05:15 AM

If apple would have let other hardware companys make apple clones macs would be so expensive. I wonder where apple would be today if 5 years ago they would have allowed bigger hardware companys to make apple os computers. Hey want a DellMac or a Packard Bell Mac haha.

CD Hanks · Aug 5, 2004, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by RiSE:
If apple would have let other hardware companys make apple clones macs would be so expensive. I wonder where apple would be today if 5 years ago they would have allowed bigger hardware companys to make apple os computers. Hey want a DellMac or a Packard Bell Mac haha.

While it's a neat idea in theory, licensing the mac os hardware out to third parties nearly killed Apple back in the day.

However...these days it could go the other way...

Brien · Aug 5, 2004, 05:36 AM

Well, I seriously doubt apple is worrying about Linux right now. After all, not that many users are proficient enough in it as of yet for it to be anything more than a server/plaything OS right now. In the future, however, it will be a serious contender.

Linux may be free, but the quality is not nearly as good as Mac (or even Windows).

RiSE · Aug 5, 2004, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
While it's a neat idea in theory, licensing the mac os hardware out to third parties nearly killed Apple back in the day.

However...these days it could go the other way...

They did? I cant remember ever seeing a mac clone?

Langdon · Aug 5, 2004, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by RiSE:
They did? I cant remember ever seeing a mac clone?

http://www.lowendmac.com/clones/index.shtml

Steve killed them when he came back to Apple in the late 90s

Hawkeye_a · Aug 5, 2004, 07:08 AM

Clones are a bad idea that could taint the 'not so obvious' products apple sells..... such as style elegence, simplicity, etc. ive never liked clones, Apple has a great recipe for making computers, the problem is that it's prices are still a little too high. what happened to the sub $1k iMac ? consumers deserve such a product in this day and age...i mean seriously.

iPods current pricing is at just the right level.

iThink the major pricing changes need to be made on the consumer line.

-low end iMac needs to be around $799 (i remember the iMacDvs once hit this point)(DVD drive)
-low end iBook needs to be at $999 (DVD drive)

The consumer lines should be the vehicle for expanding the Apple consumer base, cause lets face it...not a whole lot of ppl who dont already own a mac would be willing to drop $2000+ on their first mac (powermac).

Targeting education customers for discounts is cool n all, but i think Apple needs to strongy target the home user.

Another ting to consider is, what kind of message does this send to Apple's Developers ? they could potentially sell more to Linux crowd than to the Apple crowd, and thats not a good thing by any measure.

Cheers.

RiSE · Aug 5, 2004, 07:17 AM

Ah i do remember the mac clones now!

Apple computers are priced so high because there is nothing else! No competetion isnt always a good thing. If you are the only guy on the block who cares what your prices are. People will pay it becasue they dont know anything cheaper. You know? If i want to build a windows/linux machine i can go online and buy whatever parts i need for CHEAP. Now i love my mac and dont think i wasted 2k on it but i also love the fact that im going to have a 64bit pc comparable to a G5 for $800.

drive-thru · Aug 5, 2004, 08:39 AM

Switch to Linux

(Probably been posted before, if so...sorry)

mitchell_pgh · Aug 5, 2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by AKcrab:
Free vs. $$$$.
Free always wins.

So why is Apple and Linux fighting over the M$ table scraps?

mitchell_pgh · Aug 5, 2004, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by drive-thru:
Switch to Linux

(Probably been posted before, if so...sorry)

Hilarious...

mitchell_pgh · Aug 5, 2004, 09:17 AM

I would love to see a poll where random people off of the street are asked.

What is Linux?

I would guess that only 20% know.

Then ask what Apple is.

GoGoReggieXPowars · Aug 5, 2004, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by RiSE:
Apple computers are priced so high because there is nothing else! No competetion isnt always a good thing. If you are the only guy on the block who cares what your prices are. People will pay it becasue they dont know anything cheaper.

Complete and utter crap. Apple creates the software and the hardware themselves, and that costs money. Dell, Comaq, Gateway, etc. have zero development costs on the hardware, they just pick a premade motherboard, a premade case and slap it together based on someone else's R&D.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 5, 2004, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
Complete and utter crap. Apple creates the software and the hardware themselves, and that costs money. Dell, Comaq, Gateway, etc. have zero development costs on the hardware, they just pick a premade motherboard, a premade case and slap it together based on someone else's R&D.

Couldn't have said it better myself. They don't need to do R&D on the OS or the CPU/Motherboard configuration. I'm sure they do some, but they don't have to start from square one.

york28 · Aug 5, 2004, 09:57 AM

Linux gaining marketshare is a good thing. My guess is that it is eating away at Windows' not Apples.

Don't most of the Linux desktops sold today function as low end machines for web and word processing? The low end is not a market that Apple has any interest in...

waxcrash · Aug 5, 2004, 10:13 AM

I call BS on the statistics. If you read the article, "Industry research firm IDC in Framingham, Mass., said it believes that this has already happened. "Linux captured the No. 2 spot as desktop operating system in 2003," said IDC analyst Dan Kusnetzky in a recent interview.

A fricken analyst believes. There is no proof. Well, I believe that moon is made of cheese, does that mean it is?

Chris O'Brien · Aug 5, 2004, 10:23 AM

I wonder where the statistics come from. How many ISO's have been downloaded/shipped? If so, I imagine they are completeley skewed. I've downloaded countless distro's over the last 5-6 years to play around with things etc. But the marketshare figure should see just me, not how many distros I happen to have downloaded.

Of course, they could get the figures another way, in which case my point is null and void.

techweenie1 · Aug 5, 2004, 10:33 AM

iirc there was another article (maybe a few weeks/days ago?) claiming something similar but went further by saying that its figures were based on computers sold with linux preinstalled. It totally neglected the possibility of people buying computers with linux preinstalled, and then ditching linux in favor of Windows, or people downloading linux, using it for a few months, breaking something and then going back to Windows. I have to say I've been guilty of both of those..bought the $100 Walmart PC back in Christmas 2002 I think, came with Lycoris..removed it, put Ex-pee on it and gave it to my Grandmother as a gift. Would have gotten her a mac but she's the type that complains if she doesn't have new technology but then never uses the new technology when she gets it..go figure. I also have used Linux on and off for the past 5 years...currently have Slackware running dual boot on the PC with XP, and of course I got my G4 next to that.

CD Hanks · Aug 5, 2004, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would love to see a poll where random people off of the street are asked.

What is Linux?

I would guess that only 20% know.

Then ask what Apple is.

Congradulations. You just alluded to how effective advertising is.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 5, 2004, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
Congradulations. You just alluded to how effective advertising is.

Or, perhaps I was alluding to how few people have ever seen a Linux desktop other then to see a demo and then boot back in to XP.

KeyLimePi · Aug 5, 2004, 11:27 AM

I was surprised to see the goverment was running Linux on this new supercomputer. When I saw IBM chips I immediately thought G5.

Matt OS X · Aug 5, 2004, 11:34 AM

Quality vs cheap

Apple users buys quality macs better than PC users buy cheaper pcs.

DeathMan · Aug 5, 2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Matt OS X:
Quality vs cheap

Apple users buys quality macs better than PC users buy cheaper pcs.

There you have it, folks. The entire economics of the PC industry, in a single, succinct, grammatically flagrant statement.

anthonyvthc · Aug 5, 2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Matt OS X:
Quality vs cheap

Apple users buys quality macs better than PC users buy cheaper pcs.

That one hurt my brain.

Diggory Laycock · Aug 5, 2004, 07:27 PM

http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html

1% Linux 3% Mac.

teszeract · Aug 5, 2004, 07:58 PM

I still don't get after 20 years with apple. why don't they sell them everywhere? Macs are easier to use right? So you don't really need the geniuses, right? Call me naive, but the more places you sell your product, perhaps the more you'll sell?

rozwado1 · Aug 5, 2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by AKcrab:
Free vs. $$$$.
Free always wins.

Except with hookers.

Matt OS X · Aug 6, 2004, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by anthonyvthc:
That one hurt my brain.

I take it back, alright?

macaddict0001 · Aug 6, 2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by RiSE:
They did? I cant remember ever seeing a mac clone?

commadore(I might have that spelled wrong) supermac there's lots more.

macaddict0001 · Aug 6, 2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by cszar2001:
According to a Mac site here in Germany Apple has problems with supplying it`s dealers with enough G5`s, Ipod`s, Displays and everything else.

They could sell a lot more - if they could deliver the stuff in time.

And as for Linux overtaking OS X: don`t forget China. Linux will eventually overtake Windows too.

actually not meeting supply keeps demand up and ensures sales for the coming months.

macaddict0001 · Aug 6, 2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Langdon:
http://www.lowendmac.com/clones/index.shtml

Steve killed them when he came back to Apple in the late 90s

mid 90's

faragbre967 · Aug 6, 2004, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by rozwado1:
Except with hookers.

That's just... wrong.

macaddict0001 · Aug 6, 2004, 12:31 PM

Just out of curiosity how many people here have built their own os

Chris O'Brien · Aug 6, 2004, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
Just out of curiosity how many people here have built their own os

What do you mean? Compiled their own version of linux etc? If so, I have; with the helpful aid of the LFS people

RiSE · Aug 6, 2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
Just out of curiosity how many people here have built their own os

My older brother did when he was in school, he used to be a really cool nerd, then he got married and got into home depot and crap like that.

milhous · 12:30 AM

i dont' see mainstream apps coming to linux anytime soon. because of it's modular nature and that it runs on many platforms plus the bizillion distros out there, they first off aren't going to be selling source for the end-user to build. secondly, if they release a binary for a certain distro, then others are going whine and ask for it on theirs. x86, amd-64, itanic, no way.

18 posts to go...

edit: i like to think that i submitted that article for macnn to post. i saw it on google news the other day.

Superchicken · Aug 7, 2004, 01:36 AM

Linux growing is good. Apple growing is better. Windows growing... is bad.

I think in the next ten years we shall see Apple's market share go up a good couple percent points, actually once it hits 6 percent I imagine it'll jump to 10% very quickly.

I also imagine in a few years SOMEBODY perhaps even IBM or say IBM and Novel will develop their own Linux distro, perhaps even based on IBM chips that they will sell quite cheap and undercut a lot of the other PC makers, imagine not having to pay M$ for your license, and not having to buy your chips from Intel or AMD?
And then we'll see a single Linux distro gain a lot of traction. Which will make it easier for other distros.

I think we could easily see HP and IBM both developing some sweet tech for on top of Linux and selling it super cheap, and encouraging developers to develop for them. The problem is whoever would do that would piss off a lot of open source people when they leave out certain projects and entirely redo how certain things need to be done so that it's easier for the user.

I imagine we'll see Windows, OS X, and some OS X like thing built on top of the Linux kernel.

macaddict0001 · Aug 7, 2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Black Book:
What do you mean? Compiled their own version of linux etc? If so, I have; with the helpful aid of the LFS people

no I mean writing the code from nothingness

xenu · Aug 7, 2004, 07:14 PM

I would love to buy a G5 for work, but would have to jump through hoops. I can buy a pc and run Linux and no one will care.

CreepingDeth · Aug 7, 2004, 07:25 PM

Is Photoshop even native on Linux? That's the real question.
Who cares. Realize that we are the minority in computers. Get over it.

rastatero · 07:38 PM

I am actually really surprised that Linux has surpassed Mac in the realm of OS. Linux is great, but still is not so great for end-users and average consumers. Linux still lacks a unified graphical user interface, a strong office suite, broad peripheral compatibiliy. These aspects really make it hard for Linux to perform in the consumer market, so I am really surprised by the statistics. Surely Apple can do something about this fall to Linux and take the lead. *cough* Lower Prices.

I have been thinking about building my own linux flavour for many years, but there are so many distros available that finding one which fits your wants and needs is easy. I have used many distros over the last three years including most of the BSDs, Slackware, Mandrake, and Redhat. The best distro I have found is Gentoo. I am still using it and I feel that it is simply one of the best distros out there. Check it out! www.gentoo.org -- Tony

rastatero · Aug 7, 2004, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Is Photoshop even native on Linux? That's the real question.
Who cares. Realize that we are the minority in computers. Get over it.

Photoshop is not native to Linux, but you could use GIMP.

CreepingDeth · Aug 7, 2004, 07:44 PM

Yeah, right. GIMP? "Next issue of GIMPUser magazine�" No. I'll keep Photoshop. If Linux was such a big platform, then wouldn't Adobe bring one of the most popular apps to it?

DeathMan · Aug 7, 2004, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by rastatero:
Photoshop is not native to Linux, but you could use GIMP.

It used to run on irix or some flavor of unix. Though I doubt they've kept the code versions up to day. Eventually as Linux grows, economic factors will win over, but the fact that Adobe knows most Linux kids have Windows installed too, will help draw out a Linux release. Also what that guy up there said about distros. Thats a hassle. But I'm sure when things get to that point, Adobe will find a way to get $700+ out of the majority of Linux users for Photoshop.