[Thade]

After a week with the mini, I'm considering returning it. I weighed all the pros & cons before I bought it decided on the mini vs. any further upgrades to my dual G4 450/512/Radeon/8500/80 gig WD SE/DVD burner. The mini has a fster CPU, small form factor but a slower HD and video. I have not been dissapointed by the HD speed, it dooesn't seem to be an issue. I lucked out with a 5400 RPM drive. Even though I never expected the mini to be a gaming machine, I fired up Quake 3 and my old G4 blows it away. I've always been something of a power user in the PC world. My main PC is an Athlon 64/1GB RAM/6800GT bla bla bla. I should know from experience that I'm always gonna kick myself for not getting the faster whatever it is. I probably should have either upgraded my G4 on the cheap or held out for an iMac or G5 when the finances & timing were right. I'm still not sure what I'm gonna do. I AM happy with the mini. I just wanted to share my experience for anyone else who is on the fence as I was.

Jeff
#3 guy in Line @ the Oakbrook, IL Apple store

[MichiganRich]

It doesn't surprise me. You're exactly the guy that shouldn't have bought a Mini, if he could have avoided the temptation of the purchase. You realize now, and knew even then, that you have too much experience with more powerful computers to feel that the Mini is a long term solution. It was new, it was cool, and you wanted it, so you bought it. There's nothing wrong with that! Some people have $1000 video cameras sitting on shelves because of the same desire for cool gadgets. Play around with it for a while, get to know it, then sell it to your sweet and loving parents or siblings or another family member. At $500 (depending on which model you went for), it's like cheap Karma. Enjoy the giddy impulse of the purchase, stroke the smooth plastic... when the time is right, someone you know will be in need of some Mac goodness and you will be the cool guy who turned them on to The Better Way, the Way Of The X... (cue choir of angels)

Every time I think that the Mini might be the perfect computer to replace my Mom's 8 YEAR OLD PIECE OF DOG CRAP (ahem, pardon me) Dell, I put the prices together, along with a nice new display and keyboard and stuff, and then I'm left looking at the iMac. I think Apple planned it that way.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by MichiganRich:
It doesn't surprise me. You're exactly the guy that shouldn't have bought a Mini, if he could have avoided the temptation of the purchase. You realize now, and knew even then, that you have too much experience with more powerful computers to feel that the Mini is a long term solution. It was new, it was cool, and you wanted it, so you bought it. There's nothing wrong with that! Some people have $1000 video cameras sitting on shelves because of the same desire for cool gadgets. Play around with it for a while, get to know it, then sell it to your sweet and loving parents or siblings or another family member. At $500 (depending on which model you went for), it's like cheap Karma. Enjoy the giddy impulse of the purchase, stroke the smooth plastic... when the time is right, someone you know will be in need of some Mac goodness and you will be the cool guy who turned them on to The Better Way, the Way Of The X... (cue choir of angels)

Every time I think that the Mini might be the perfect computer to replace my Mom's 8 YEAR OLD PIECE OF DOG CRAP (ahem, pardon me) Dell, I put the prices together, along with a nice new display and keyboard and stuff, and then I'm left looking at the iMac. I think Apple planned it that way.

I took mine back after all of one evening of usage. Basically, the Mini reminded me what it was like to have a dogsh*t computer. After I took it back I realized what I really want is the iMac.

[dennis cheung]

Being on the bleeding edge is addictive and expensive hobby!

Computers now a days, cheap or expensive, is sufficient for everyday tasks. Only when you start getting into specialized tasks such as gaming, graphics, movies, and rendering of sorts do you notice the difference. In general, you should know what you plan on doing with the computer. I mean, your beefy machine is for games etc, what do you do with your current dual g4? If the mini does everything your g4 does currently, then already its a good buy. If you want your mini to do more, videos/graphics etc, then maybe the powermac is your best bet.

I'm still using my 3200xp, 1ghz powerbook, and a ppro 200mhz. Thinking of adding a mini for coding...mmmmmmmmmm.

[tooki]

Did you guys remember that 256MB of RAM is basically just enough for Mac OS X to boot?

If you didn't upgrade to 512MB or beyond, it WILL NOT have satisfactory performance.

tooki

[hudson1]

I was in an Apple store over the weekend and saw a mini in the flesh for the first time. Just playing around with it for a few minutes, mostly web surfing, it "felt" every bit as fast as the iMac sitting next to it. The mini only had the stock 256MB RAM, too. Maybe it the iMac that felt no faster than the mini--however you want to look at it.

There's no question that this is a machine for someone who cares about small size, good looks, responsiveness (not hobbled) and quietness but doesn't want to shell out a figure well north of $1000 to achieve that.

[Thade]

I should have mentioned that I installed 512 MB ram in the mini. I definately don't consider it slow. If I didn't already have the dual G4, it would be a great introduction to OS X. I'd even buy a mini as a disposable just to see if "switching" is for me. Better than spending 2 grand and finding out I hated it. But that's why I bought the G4. I think MichiganRich hit it on the head: I'm just a sucker for gadgets.

J

[turtle777]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
I took mine back after all of one evening of usage. Basically, the Mini reminded me what it was like to have a dogsh*t computer.

-t

[Lizard7]

I have been pleasantly surprised with the speed of 1.42 Ghz mini with 1 gig RAM. I don't even really notice the slowness of the 4200 rpm (toshiba 80 gig drive) except when copying big files. Haven't tried any games yet though.

[nyarlaho]

You don't mention any tasks for which you wanted to use the mini, and for which its speed wasn't sufficient. What was too slow on the mini? You can't throw around gigabite-sized photoshop files with it, but noone expected that. I've been playing quake 3 on mine, and get a solid 90 fps (with medium settings).

[AC Rempt]

I played with the Mini at the Apple Store this weekend, and I was impressed with the speed. No surprise, but it's as fast as my Rev B 12" PowerBook. Is it slower than my G5? Oh hell yeah, but also, no duh!

If I were in the market for a good second machine, I would look hard at the Mini.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by tooki:
Did you guys remember that 256MB of RAM is basically just enough for Mac OS X to boot?

If you didn't upgrade to 512MB or beyond, it WILL NOT have satisfactory performance.

tooki

Seems like Apple's problem for not including enough RAM base. I didn't see any 512's available in the store, and I don't like the idea of prying my computer open with a putty knife.

[mitchell_pgh]

I feel sorry for people that try to buy the mini and pump it up.... when in reality, they should have purchased the low end G5 or even an iMac...

[toado]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I feel sorry for people that try to buy the mini and pump it up.... when in reality, they should have purchased the low end G5 or even an iMac...

Why? Neither of those machines are anywhere near as portable as the Mac Mini. For people who need to move their workspace around on a regular basis but want better display options at lower prices, the Mac Mini is definitely a better deal. And of course when it comes to the iMac G5 there's the issue of being able to buy a better CPU without throwing away the display.

[Randman]

Originally posted by toado:
For people who need to move their workspace around on a regular basis but want better display options at lower prices

Get a PowerBook or iBook and an external monitor.

[icibaqu]

Originally posted by Randman:
Get a PowerBook or iBook and an external monitor.

want to lend us all some $$$

comprable 12" ibook option: $1299 (no superdrive)
� 512MB DDR266 SDRAM (256MB built-in & 256MB SO-DIMM)
� 80GB Ultra ATA drive
� Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
� AirPort Extreme Card
� Bluetooth Module
� Keyboard & Mac OS X - U.S. English
� 12-inch TFT XGA display
� 1.2GHz PowerPC G4
� ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 w/ 32MB DDR video memory

comprable 12" powerbook option: $1699
� 512MB DDR333 (256MB built-in + 256MB SO-DIMM)
� 80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 5400rpm
� 8x SuperDrive (DVD�RW/CD-RW)
� AirPort Extreme Card
� Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
� 1.5GHz PowerPC G4
� NVIDIA GeForce FX GO 5200 with 64MB DDR Video Memory
� 12.1-inch TFT Display

mini option: $873
� 512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
� 80GB Ultra ATA drive
� 4x SuperDrive (DVD�RW/CD-RW)
� Internal Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme Card
� 56K v.92 Modem
� Mac OS X - U.S. English
� 1.42GHz PowerPC G4

price difference?
ibook vs mini = $426
powerbook vs mini = $826

notice that we haven't added the external keyboard/mouse nor a display. the price difference would stay the same, but the final totals tells all. sure the comparison's are not perfect, but you get the point.

if you're down, let me make sure my paypal account is all in order so you can help me out

[Randman]

If you truly need the portability, the cost is worth it. While it may not fit into YOUR budget, it does show that there options. Certainly more than bitching about it.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by tooki:
Did you guys remember that 256MB of RAM is basically just enough for Mac OS X to boot?

If you didn't upgrade to 512MB or beyond, it WILL NOT have satisfactory performance.

tooki

Someone forgot to tell Apple. Apparently, they are still selling computers with 256 RAM.

[Randman]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
Someone forgot to tell Apple. Apparently, they are still selling computers with 256 RAM.

Not the new PBs.

[Cadaver]

The mini is the perfect computer for my 6 year old daughter. Small, silent, and enough to surf cartoonnetwork.com and play kid games. I've got an unused 15" Blue & White VGA Apple LCD and a boat load of spare mice & keyboards.

I'll be ordering one, probably the 1.42GHz (since I get the faculty edu discount) w/ airport, in the coming weeks.

Then again, this is the right position for the mini (or one of the right markets; a second home computer).

Don't buy a mini if what you're expecting is a G5 tower.

[SmileyDude]

Originally posted by hudson1:
I was in an Apple store over the weekend and saw a mini in the flesh for the first time. Just playing around with it for a few minutes, mostly web surfing, it "felt" every bit as fast as the iMac sitting next to it. The mini only had the stock 256MB RAM, too. Maybe it the iMac that felt no faster than the mini--however you want to look at it.

Heh -- I noticed that too. I was playing around with the mini at the Chestnut Hill, MA store, and it seemed pretty fast. I checked the RAM, and it only had the stock 256MB.

Does Apple customise their OS builds they push out onto their machines at the Apple store? I was really expecting that mini to start choking after launching a few apps -- iTunes, Safari... whatever else was left open. But, it seemed perfectly fine. I did manage to open a Terminal as well, and vm_stat showed that the page outs were reasonably low.

On the other hand, my mini with 512MB starts paging out when I have iTunes, Safari, iPhoto, and the Terminal open. I also have the Activity Monitor in the Dock as well. What gives???

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
Someone forgot to tell Apple. Apparently, they are still selling computers with 256 RAM.

They used to sell computers with just 128 MB of RAM. The iMac G4 had 128 MB on the lower end models when it was introduced, as did the older white iBook G3s and the eMacs. It was only something like a year ago that Apple made 256 MB the lowest amount of RAM included with any Mac.

I've booted OS X version 10.1 on a 225 MHz 604e with 112 MB of RAM before, and I assure you that a mini with 256 MB and 10.3 would feel luxuriously fast in comparison!

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
They used to sell computers with just 128 MB of RAM. The iMac G4 had 128 MB on the lower end models when it was introduced, as did the older white iBook G3s and the eMacs. It was only something like a year ago that Apple made 256 MB the lowest amount of RAM included with any Mac.

I've booted OS X version 10.1 on a 225 MHz 604e with 112 MB of RAM before, and I assure you that a mini with 256 MB and 10.3 would feel luxuriously fast in comparison!

So this is a situation where we should be thankful for what we are getting?

Regardless -- I have a Mac Mini speced with 512, Superdrive and Blueototh (no Airport) and I'm quite happy. I figure this will last a year before I need to upgrade the memory to 1GB, then another year until I pitch it from the window in frustration.

Including my 20" Widescreen, total price was $1424. $1424! Four years ago I was looking at spending $3k on a Cube and 17" ADC display.

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
So this is a situation where we should be thankful for what we are getting?

Regardless -- I have a Mac Mini speced with 512, Superdrive and Blueototh (no Airport) and I'm quite happy. I figure this will last a year before I need to upgrade the memory to 1GB, then another year until I pitch it from the window in frustration.

Including my 20" Widescreen, total price was $1424. $1424! Four years ago I was looking at spending $3k on a Cube and 17" ADC display.

How? I thought that sounded good and just speced a similar machine at apple's page. Mini+superdrive+faster CPU= 699
20" widescreen= $1000

$1700 total + shipping and taxes.

Where did you get your prices?

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Captain Egotist:
How? I thought that sounded good and just speced a similar machine at apple's page. Mini+superdrive+faster CPU= 699
20" widescreen= $1000

$1700 total + shipping and taxes.

Where did you get your prices?

I bought a Dell 2005FPW 20" Widescreen, not an Apple display. Dell sells them for $750, but I bought mine new on eBay $600 shipped.

CLICK HERE for the actual auction page

I think this seller has many more... the guy shipped same day and other buyers also seem happy. The 2005FPS is very nice, and even has a USB 2.0 hub built in. If you can get over issues with non-Apple branded products you might find the Dell to be a nice, far cheaper, perhaps even superior, option. But you will have to look at a shiny Dell logo every day... is that worth $400 savings to you?

I'm also using a Microsoft Wireless Elite Desktop, so it is quite an orgy of cats and dogs on my desk. But it all works well, and keeps my desktop "black" save for the mini. Dell, Apple, and Microsoft -- all living together in Harmony.

P.S. I went with the Dell after having issues with my Viewsonic display and the Mini. Lots of people having non-Apple DVI display problems with the Mini.

[Captain Egotist]

Nice. I've heard the apple display is a bit sharper and better to look at...but that's quite a chunk of change. How's the mini driving the 20"? I've heard some problems with mini's and large resolutions....

[icibaqu]

Originally posted by Randman:
If you truly need the portability, the cost is worth it. While it may not fit into YOUR budget, it does show that there options. Certainly more than bitching about it.

bitching about what?

the "cost" issue has been frequently noted as a reason why PC's enjoy such a large market share over Mac's... so it's not like it's only a factor to one or two people.

[toado]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
I bought a Dell 2005FPW 20" Widescreen, not an Apple display. Dell sells them for $750, but I bought mine new on eBay $600 shipped.

Heh, well you paid too much for it, then. You can get it from Dell for $550.

[bitjumper]

Originally posted by toado:
Heh, well you paid too much for it, then. You can get it from Dell for $550.

What's Dell's policy on dead pixels? Do they have a simple 100% customer satisfaction policy so I could return it if for any reason I'm not satisfied? I've never bought from Dell. I want a perfect display and will only buy from someone who allows monitors to be returned.

Erik

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by toado:
Heh, well you paid too much for it, then. You can get it from Dell for $550.

!!! Well sheeeet.

Oh well, it was $750 at the time. At $550 it is even more of a steal. Dell would charge tax and shipping on top of that $550, so I suppose I came out even. I can recommend this monitor no problem.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Captain Egotist:
Nice. I've heard the apple display is a bit sharper and better to look at...but that's quite a chunk of change. How's the mini driving the 20"? I've heard some problems with mini's and large resolutions....

It's fine driving the 20", but like I said the Mini didn't work well with my 20" Viewsonic, but likes the Dell. Now -- I would imagine gaming at high resolutions would not be so swell. And Expose is not silky smooth with the limited 32meg VRAM. But at least I can keep this monitor through my next Mini upgrade.

The Apple monitor isn't any better to look at, and isn't sharper. Brand haloing may provide superior perceptions of performance, but this is a sweet monitor better than anything I've even used, including the Viewsonic vp201s it replaced.

And another poster just provided a link to these now selling for $550 direct through Dell. That's a deal, folks. Go for it.

[Hi I'm Ben]

I hate my iBook
I wish I would have got a Dell or something because it's WAY faster for less money and god do I miss CoolWebSearch for all my internet needs. Not only that Dell phone tech support is the best. All you people who bought minis are fools.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
I hate my iBook
I wish I would have got a Dell or something because it's WAY faster for less money and god do I miss CoolWebSearch for all my internet needs. Not only that Dell phone tech support is the best. All you people who bought minis are fools.

Either I'm missing the sarcasm or you are missing the point. I'm talking about Dell monitors, not computers.

[SmileyDude]

Another point on these monitors -- we have a pair of them we purchased last year hooked up to G5 towers. They are really nice. Not only do they have DVI and SVGA, they also have a composite and S-Video input as well. So, not only can you have your Mac and PC connected up, you can connect up a couple of video feeds (cable, PS2, GameCube, etc, etc) as well. Toss in the 4 port USB hub as well, and this is a great deal.

Still wishing I had cash to buy one of these right now...

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by SmileyDude:
Another point on these monitors -- we have a pair of them we purchased last year hooked up to G5 towers. They are really nice. Not only do they have DVI and SVGA, they also have a composite and S-Video input as well. So, not only can you have your Mac and PC connected up, you can connect up a couple of video feeds (cable, PS2, GameCube, etc, etc) as well. Toss in the 4 port USB hub as well, and this is a great deal.

Still wishing I had cash to buy one of these right now...

And oh yeah, "Picture in Picture" capability. Plug in your cable feed and watch Full House reruns in the corner of your display.

Elvis

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by SmileyDude:
Another point on these monitors -- we have a pair of them we purchased last year hooked up to G5 towers. They are really nice. Not only do they have DVI and SVGA, they also have a composite and S-Video input as well. So, not only can you have your Mac and PC connected up, you can connect up a couple of video feeds (cable, PS2, GameCube, etc, etc) as well. Toss in the 4 port USB hub as well, and this is a great deal.

Still wishing I had cash to buy one of these right now...

Hrmmmm didn't know htat, it makes me want one even more. QUESTION: How's the viewing angle?

I'm considering buying one of these to replace my 27" tv. I know it doesn't have a tuner, but I only use it for movies and the PS2. So.... would it work okay as a TV? My current apple LCD has an incredible viewing angle!

- Rob

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Captain Egotist:
Hrmmmm didn't know htat, it makes me want one even more. QUESTION: How's the viewing angle?

I'm considering buying one of these to replace my 27" tv. I know it doesn't have a tuner, but I only use it for movies and the PS2. So.... would it work okay as a TV? My current apple LCD has an incredible viewing angle!

- Rob

Rob - Apple LCDs are not "anything special". In fact, they are quite mid-tier in terms of their specs. Apple hardware, despite common misconceptions, is not of higher quality than PC hardware. For example, the Powerbook is manufactured by Asustek -- same company that makes the mainboards in most HP, Sony, etc PCs.

Apples advantage, and Jobs would tell you this himself, is in software and OS.

The Apple displays bring nothing specicial to the table other than consistent styling. Doesn't even have height adjustment. You definitely pay more for less with the monitors. Same argument could be (and is) made for their PCs... but those at least are required for OSX. The monitors are interchangable.

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
Rob - Apple LCDs are not "anything special". In fact, they are quite mid-tier in terms of their specs. Apple hardware, despite common misconceptions, is not of higher quality than PC hardware. For example, the Powerbook is manufactured by Asustek -- same company that makes the mainboards in most HP, Sony, etc PCs.

Apples advantage, and Jobs would tell you this himself, is in software and OS.

The Apple displays bring nothing specicial to the table other than consistent styling. Doesn't even have height adjustment. You definitely pay more for less with the monitors. Same argument could be (and is) made for their PCs... but those at least are required for OSX. The monitors are interchangable.

yes they are! First off, I forgot to mention this 17" lcd is on a g4 imac, so not only can it adjust via height, tilt, and rotate, it can also move forward and backward. But yes, I know hardware is hardware, HOWEVER, apple seems to use VERY high quality LCDs in their products. This screen is fantastic and has a much wider viewing angle than any other LCD I've played with, including a lot of them at best buy, circuit city, etc.

So anyway.... how would this thing work for a TV? Would it look blocky running a TV style resolution? Or would it look nice? Could I just set it on my entertainment center and hook up the DVD player to it and have it work? Or would I have to mess with it's settings a lot? Anyone who has this monitor, could you PLEASE hook up a ps2 or dvd player to it and take a pic for me?

- Rob

[SlowHands]

Originally posted by nyarlaho:
You don't mention any tasks for which you wanted to use the mini, and for which its speed wasn't sufficient. What was too slow on the mini? You can't throw around gigabite-sized photoshop files with it, but noone expected that. I've been playing quake 3 on mine, and get a solid 90 fps (with medium settings).

yeah but Quake 3 is bloody 6 years old

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by SlowHands:
yeah but Quake 3 is bloody 6 years old

Yes but see that doesn't matter. If I complain that my CONSUMER imac which is quite pricey cannot play doom3 very well.... and I complain that having to get a PROFESSIONAL line mac just to upgrade your dang video card so you can play a game aimed at the CONSUMER market is stupid.... then everyone disagrees and I get yelled at.

- Rob

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by Captain Egotist:

So anyway.... how would this thing work for a TV? Would it look blocky running a TV style resolution? Or would it look nice? Could I just set it on my entertainment center and hook up the DVD player to it and have it work? Or would I have to mess with it's settings a lot? Anyone who has this monitor, could you PLEASE hook up a ps2 or dvd player to it and take a pic for me?

- Rob

Bump

[yikes600]

Originally posted by Captain Egotist:
Yes but see that doesn't matter. If I complain that my CONSUMER imac which is quite pricey cannot play doom3 very well.... and I complain that having to get a PROFESSIONAL line mac just to upgrade your dang video card so you can play a game aimed at the CONSUMER market is stupid.... then everyone disagrees and I get yelled at.

- Rob

I agree with you. Sadly, there will always be crappy-graphics-card defenders just as there are 1-button-mouse defenders.

[SlowHands]

Originally posted by Captain Egotist:
Yes but see that doesn't matter. If I complain that my CONSUMER imac which is quite pricey cannot play doom3 very well.... and I complain that having to get a PROFESSIONAL line mac just to upgrade your dang video card so you can play a game aimed at the CONSUMER market is stupid.... then everyone disagrees and I get yelled at.

- Rob

that's what I'm saying, pal.

q3 is bloody 6 years old... 90 @ medium is like.... NORMAL... it's even... poor.

[iREZ]

I think the main reason there are defenders is that Apple doesn't proclaim that Doom can play on a Mac mini, or iMac G5. Sure they pumped up Halo, but that was in the graphics page of the PM G5. Apple doesn't care about the gaming public so it's none of their concern if you can or can't play your game on it. To them it's like asking for a mini to be able to run Motion because running Motion is what you like to do on your off time, they don't care cuz the mini isn't targeted to that group. If you wanna game, get a PC or console, or PM duallie...other than that just let it go. Remember Apple doesn't release the games so don't blame them.

[realitybath]

Originally posted by iREZ:
Remember Apple doesn't release the games so don't blame them.

you want people to blame software developers for hardware problems?

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by iREZ:
I think the main reason there are defenders is that Apple doesn't proclaim that Doom can play on a Mac mini, or iMac G5. Sure they pumped up Halo, but that was in the graphics page of the PM G5. Apple doesn't care about the gaming public so it's none of their concern if you can or can't play your game on it. To them it's like asking for a mini to be able to run Motion because running Motion is what you like to do on your off time, they don't care cuz the mini isn't targeted to that group. If you wanna game, get a PC or console, or PM duallie...other than that just let it go. Remember Apple doesn't release the games so don't blame them.

I disagre with you 300%. The cube was the PERFECT gaming machine with one flaw: A hugely inflated price.

Apple has proved it can build the same thing as a cube with MORE EXPENSIVE components (laptop drives) for under $500. Minus the hard drive and optical drive you're looking at 300-350ish for the CPU, case, 256 megs memory, power adaptor, and shitty graphics card.

The cube= gamer's mac.

The reason it failed? Retarded price tag.

[SmileyDude]

I'm gonna have to agree as well -- the mini just isn't powerful enough in the video dept for games. And it should be.

I realise that for built in video, the mini's offering is much better than the Intel Integrated crap. But, giving only 32mb of video RAM is pathetic.

I really hope that Apple stops sending the mixed message that if you want to play games, you need the Pro-grade machines. Games are very much consumer products, and the consumer Macs should have more GPU power than they currently do.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by realitybath:
you want people to blame software developers for hardware problems?

The Mac mini may suck for games, but how well to bargain PCs with Intel Integrated Graphics with Shared Memory play these games?? No better than the Mac mini, and probably worse.

Gaming PCs aren't that cheap. Games are aimed at "consumers" but gaming PCs aren't "consumer" machines.

[Captain Egotist]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
The Mac mini may suck for games, but how well to bargain PCs with Intel Integrated Graphics with Shared Memory play these games?? No better than the Mac mini, and probably worse.

But guess what? Most of those cheap PCs have a slot for a video card. Take any of them, spend $50-100 on a video card, and BAM, you have decent gaming performance.

Gaming PCs aren't that cheap. Games are aimed at "consumers" but gaming PCs aren't "consumer" machines.

Actually they really ARE dirt cheap. I could build a pretty badass gaming PC for under $500 quite easily..... however, it won't run OSX, so I don't want it.

Again, I'm not saying that the mini should be GREAT at games.... nor the imac... I don't need 200fps... but the fact that the ONLY mac in the entire lineup with ROOM for a gaming video card is the uber-expensive PRO model is stupid.

- Rob

[Link]

$500? With a radeon 9800-class, athlon64, 512mb DDR ram, DVD-rom or better drive, and an 80gb or better drive?

AND licensed copy of Windows XP pro?

I'd like to see that!

9800 pro (cheapest 9800 that doesn't suck): $200-220
512MB DDR400 ram: $72
Athlon64 2800 (or AthlonXP of similar rating): $125
DVD-Rom Drive: $28
80GB Drive: $58

All prices above include shipping (but not tax, another 7-8% for CA people through most stores) -- and that's newegg/ZZF prices (relatively good).

Now, we haven't even included the motherboard or case.. if you want, get an antec w/300w PSU for $62 shipped and a socket 754 board for about $80.

Right there, we're talking $625, for a no-frills gaming machine that doesn't cut corners.. NOT including the windows license.

http://www.hmcomp.com/cgi-bin/szc.cg...XP-PRO&p_vlt=L

$128, not including shipping or tax..

So that puts us at roughly $750, yes it is more powerful than a mac mini (DUH), more upgradable, and about 12 times bigger.

But I just provided somewhat accurate of an estimate for a "full machine", not including mouse, keyboard, monitor, or speakers.. No it doesn't assume that you already have a cd drive from your 6 year old compaq that you just SO happen to not have a use for, but that's about right.. it also assumes you're planning to get windows LEGALLY for it.

Then again, who buys windows anyway.

My point? Your $500 computer thing is bullocks. Prove you can have a "decent" (P4 or A64, radeon 9800 or better, 512mb ram, modern HD, DVD drive, nice case) machine without cutting corners for less than $500 and I'll believe it.