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Preciousss · Nov 24, 2004, 05:56 PM

I did a quick search here, on MacFixIt, MacWindows and Apple's forums-- nothing showed up, so here goes.

I waited a few weeks before upgrading to 10.3.6. No problems thus far except I've noticed that for the few times I've tried to browse our Windows NT network, I'm no longer able to. Clicking on Network in the Finder shows the server folder structure on that level, but I'm not able to get past this to the shared folders.

I should mention that I was able to access this network previously without having Services for Macintosh (SFM) turned on (never did figure out how that worked). Could this have anything to do with it in 10.3.6? Any other ideas? The IT support here, while nice, isn't all that helpful when it comes to troubleshooting Mac stuff.

Thanks

ginoledesma · Nov 25, 2004, 08:23 AM

I'm currently using 10.3.6 but I've never trusted Panther's ability to browser SMB networks. Jaguar seems to have handled it much better, so now and then I still rely on Thursby's DAVE to make things work out.

Are you able to connect to a particular computer, though? I know it's a hassle to remember the IP addresses and such, but sometimes accessing a folder "forces' it to reveal itself in the network browser list. At least it has on some occasions for me.

As of now, I'm able to view the entire computer network within the office (DAVE is not installed), but we're using a Windows 2000 PDC/BDC. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. We haven't bothered setting up services for Macintosh (admins here won't budge, and there's no need).

Preciousss · Nov 26, 2004, 03:08 PM

Thanks for the reply. I held off on upgrading to Panther for a year for the same reason: all the trouble I heard people were having with SMB. But I do have to admit, up until now, I've never had a problem with it. In fact, it seemed even better than Jaguar in my experience (with Win2k Server, 2003 Server, and initially, our creaky NT network at my new job--not sure if we're running NT 3 or 4 though). I came in on 10.3.4 though.

Anyway. I haven't tried connecting to a particular computer besides our server. They didn't appear past the root level--all I saw was the server and its folder structure. Didn't try entering the IP address of the computer I wanted to connect to, server shared files or another workstation. I know what you mean about forcing folders to reveal themselves though. Can try this when I get in on Monday.

Any other ideas? I'm just hoping a point update comes out soon that takes care of this. :-) It was really nice not having to worry about it one bit.

Originally posted by ginoledesma:
I'm currently using 10.3.6 but I've never trusted Panther's ability to browser SMB networks. Jaguar seems to have handled it much better, so now and then I still rely on Thursby's DAVE to make things work out.

Are you able to connect to a particular computer, though? I know it's a hassle to remember the IP addresses and such, but sometimes accessing a folder "forces' it to reveal itself in the network browser list. At least it has on some occasions for me.

As of now, I'm able to view the entire computer network within the office (DAVE is not installed), but we're using a Windows 2000 PDC/BDC. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. We haven't bothered setting up services for Macintosh (admins here won't budge, and there's no need).

SMacTech · Nov 26, 2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Preciousss:
Anyway. I haven't tried connecting to a particular computer besides our server. They didn't appear past the root level--all I saw was the server and its folder structure.

This is what happens when the permissions aren't correct for the server share. At least it does for me, you can see the folders, but nothing inside of them. Setting the security for the share on the server fixes it.

Preciousss · Nov 27, 2004, 09:39 PM

Interesting. I can look into this. But remember, IT is reluctant to do anything of this sort just because the one Mac needs it. <sigh> In order to make it as easy for them as possible, it would be helpful if I could suggest specifically what those permissions should be set to--could you let me know? And if I could reassure them that this will have no adverse affect on anybody else on the network, that would be wonderful too.

Thanks

Originally posted by SMacTech:
This is what happens when the permissions aren't correct for the server share. At least it does for me, you can see the folders, but nothing inside of them. Setting the security for the share on the server fixes it.

Preciousss · Dec 7, 2004, 05:21 PM

Just an update if anyone was curious about this:

Our IT person got back from vacation and rebooted the server after applying some patches. I can browse the network now!

Was at a loss on my end, so I'm glad he saved me from having to wait for 10.3.7.

SMacTech · Dec 7, 2004, 10:31 PM

Glad to hear your problem was fixed, but without knowing how.

Security permissions are platform agnostic. They would apply to anyone using smb to connect to the share, albeit from a linux box, win xp or os x.

I used 10.3.6 through out all the developer seeds and connected every day to win 2k & RH9 servers via smb without any problems.

SFM from Microsoft sucks.

JMII · Dec 8, 2004, 11:28 AM

If anyone else has this problem I can recommend this software: http://cyansoftware.com/MacServerIP.htm
It runs Apple File Sharing on the NT and easy to configure. Before installing it we could not open fonts in Suitcase that were located on our NT server while running 10.3.6. The best part is that this software keeps the resource fork data intact thus your icons show up properly on your Macs. I don't know much about the Window file sharing but this software fixed our particular problems... they offer a free 20 day trial so it cost nothing to try out.

SMacTech · Dec 8, 2004, 01:21 PM

MacServerIP has problems with OS X that have not been fixed in the latest releases. With each update, they introduced new problems. You will be sorry for using MSIP with OS X clients. I know from first hand experience. We used it for 6 yrs prior to having to support OS X.

I suggest you look at Group Logic's ExtremeZ-IP, which eliminated ALL of our problems that occurred with SFM or MSIP.

JMII · Dec 8, 2004, 03:08 PM

SMacTech - what problems? Version 8.1 is running fine for us off a Dell PowerEdge server with WinNT 4.0 (Service Pack 6A I believe). Version 7 was giving us problems with Suitcase but this recent upgrade fixed that... the upgrade was only $100 for our 10 users license.

SMacTech · Dec 9, 2004, 08:00 AM

While we used it with Win2k, the most significant problem was a corrupted database index. MSIP keeps its own file index separate from NT. Symptoms included files showing on the PC side, that did not show on the Mac. Some files appearing in wrong folders or the file showing twice in a folder with the same name.

Another problem was the inability to delete folders. It would complain that a file was in use. You could delete all the files in the folder, but not the folder.

Excel permissions problems and the inability to save them after modification. This one creeped in on v8.02 and they weren't even aware of the problem. They did however acknowledge that all problems were reproducible and they would have a fix. I waited and waited and no fix.

Quark had file timestamp problems with it. All pictures in Quark ALWAYS showed a modified status when nothing was changed.

Maybe v8.1 has resolved these issues. But I went through 4 or 5 months of hell and many upset users.

JMII · Dec 11, 2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Another problem was the inability to delete folders. It would complain that a file was in use. You could delete all the files in the folder, but not the folder.

That's the only problem I've seen. However it almost always a user's fault - for example they have a font or an application that is looking for a file in the particular folder in question. Suitcase, Quark, Illustrator... all of these apps try to "own" the folder where you have opened or saved files/documents into. Luckily I've got a small network so I can find who working in that folder and tell them to quit the app which will fix the issue, or delete the folder from the NT directly if needed. Maybe it's a Win2K issue then?

SMacTech · Dec 14, 2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by JMII:
That's the only problem I've seen. However it almost always a user's fault - for example they have a font or an application that is looking for a file in the particular folder in question. Suitcase, Quark, Illustrator... all of these apps try to "own" the folder where you have opened or saved files/documents into. Luckily I've got a small network so I can find who working in that folder and tell them to quit the app which will fix the issue, or delete the folder from the NT directly if needed. Maybe it's a Win2K issue then?

Not being able to delete a folder wasn't a problem for you? As I said, you could delete all the files in a folder, but not the folder itself. MSIP is the problem, not a user. Cyan software even acknowledged the problems and never provided a fix or a time frame to provide one. Glad they fixed in in 8.1. If I stayed with MSIP, it would have only been 10 months waiting for a fix.

How does an application 'own' a folder?