[iDaver]

I really doubt that anyone would have complained if Apple had left the iMac screens non-reflective. Now, thousands of people are complaining, saying they will not buy iMacs because of it. One forum post I saw, quoted an Apple Store employee who said that half of the customers say they don't like the reflections. Did half of customers before the change complain that the screens weren't shiny enough? I doubt it.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by iDaver 

One forum post I saw, quoted an Apple Store employee who said that half of the customers say they don't like the reflections. Did half of customers before the change complain that the screens weren't shiny enough? I doubt it.

funny, that was THIS thread, my original post.

i've been a computer/mac user for just over a decade, and for the first time, i don't have choices i am okay with with the latest macs.

perhaps my needs aren't 'mainstream' enough (i want a 12" mbp, a new matte-screen imac); so back to my 12" powerbook until...

[iDaver]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

funny, that was THIS thread, my original post.

Oh, sorry. I knew I read it somewhere!

[2servehim]

I'm currently debating glossy or matte on a MBP and at a recent conference I complimented someones glossy type screen on an HP machine. He proceeeded to show me that it was a clear overhead projector overlay type sheet taped over his screen. High tech, I know, but it looked just as slick as the Apple glossy. Give me a matte imac and a box of fitted projector ovelays and let me decide when I want it to be glossy.

[ejack]

I can't help wondering if Apple just figured those of us who do lots of Photoshop work would end up with Mac Pros anyway. I won't make a final decision until I have the chance to get in a store and play with them a bit, but based on what I've been hearing, it is likely that the glossy screen on the new iMacs will keep me from jumping the PC ship as planned.

[MacNNUK]

Is it because someone at Apple doesn't understand the difference between transmitted & reflected light.

Glossy photo's look better than matt, because they reflect more light back, and give greater depth of colour.

Computer screens transmit light from the back, so you do NOT want a reflective screen at front, distracting you.

[drmcnutt]

I saw one in a Best Buy and it wasn't too bad. My kid and I played with the photobooth stuff. He's two, but no complaints from him.

Subjectively you look at the display and your eyes adjust. Similar effect with a car window, you focus on the glass or you see what you want through it. BIg screen DLPs have coating that are distracting if you focus on them, but you don't watch a movie focusing on the screen.

I think it's a little odd that the whole "50% of buyers dislike it" based on what hard facts? An Apple employee said so? Based on a poll representing all customers or a general opinion of said employee? This is the internet

[Atheist]

Come on people... you should know by now, Steve knows what's best for us. Why should he give us options? I'm being totally serious here. Steve truly believes he knows us better than we know ourselves.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by drmcnutt 

I saw one in a Best Buy and it wasn't too bad. My kid and I played with the photobooth stuff. He's two, but no complaints from him.

Subjectively you look at the display and your eyes adjust. Similar effect with a car window, you focus on the glass or you see what you want through it. BIg screen DLPs have coating that are distracting if you focus on them, but you don't watch a movie focusing on the screen.

I think it's a little odd that the whole "50% of buyers dislike it" based on what hard facts? An Apple employee said so? Based on a poll representing all customers or a general opinion of said employee? This is the internet

i only reported what the apple store salesman told me; i realize "50%" is not based on fact...it could be less, it could, in fact, be more.

all i think apple should have done is give us a choice; the screen is where we interact with our macs, and some of us are not happy with a glossy screen.

writing this on my LG monitor, with my new mac mini. am good! (for now...)

[amazing]

Thing is, eyestrain takes awhile to develop, and many people may not even be aware of how eyestrain contributes to a headache or general fatigue, just plain feeling bad. So, they don't even associate a new glossy screen with a headache or whatever. Especially younger folk...like the 2-year old, ha!

Anyway, it just makes the gap in the middle of the Mac desktop lineup even more irksome: there needs to be a headless Mac of decent mid-range capabilities where you can supply your own monitor. The Mini doesn't qualify--not even close.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Thing is, eyestrain takes awhile to develop, and many people may not even be aware of how eyestrain contributes to a headache or general fatigue, just plain feeling bad. So, they don't even associate a new glossy screen with a headache or whatever. Especially younger folk...like the 2-year old, ha!

Anyway, it just makes the gap in the middle of the Mac desktop lineup even more irksome: there needs to be a headless Mac of decent mid-range capabilities where you can supply your own monitor. The Mini doesn't qualify--not even close.

outside of no graphics card (but hey, am no gamer)...what's wrong with the mini? i'm already doing pro audio work on it, and, on my first intel machine, feel good about the CS3 purchase (haven't really put it thru paces yet...)

[hldan]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Come on people... you should know by now, Steve knows what's best for us. Why should he give us options? I'm being totally serious here. Steve truly believes he knows us better than we know ourselves.

Oh please, stop being like many others saying that Steve's some cult leader like we as customers do what Steve Jobs says and are forced to buy his product like it's a life requirement. If you are annoyed at Apple don't buy the Macintosh.

Every company makes their products "THIER" way and we as the consumer have to either accept it or reject it. Dell is well known for making the lowest of the low end and ugly crap and even though their stuff is cheap customers want the "Apple" look on their Dell machines. For years Dell hasn't cared, it's just take it or leave it.
Finally Dell is coming around and making nicer "looking" products but they are also coming with a premium price.
What about the people buying MS Windows? Anyone who truly believes that each service pack makes Windows better is delusional but they still buy it because Bill Gates tells the customer, take it or leave it so don't make this all about Steve Jobs and Apple.

That being said, my new iMac 24" 2.8 arrived yesterday and in spite of all the negative press about the awful glaring glossy shiny screen it's quite pleasurable. It's not even a fraction as reflective as many people have complained. You have to actually see it in your home to appreciate it. I much prefer it over the matte.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by hldan 

Oh please, stop being like many others saying that Steve's some cult leader like we as customers do what Steve Jobs says and are forced to buy his product like it's a life requirement. If you are annoyed at Apple don't buy the Macintosh.

Every company makes their products "THIER" way and we as the consumer have to either accept it or reject it. Dell is well known for making the lowest of the low end and ugly crap and even though their stuff is cheap customers want the "Apple" look on their Dell machines. For years Dell hasn't cared, it's just take it or leave it.
Finally Dell is coming around and making nicer "looking" products but they are also coming with a premium price.
What about the people buying MS Windows? Anyone who truly believes that each service pack makes Windows better is delusional but they still buy it because Bill Gates tells the customer, take it or leave it so don't make this all about Steve Jobs and Apple.

That being said, my new iMac 24" 2.8 arrived yesterday and in spite of all the negative press about the awful glaring glossy shiny screen it's quite pleasurable. It's not even a fraction as reflective as many people have complained. You have to actually see it in your home to appreciate it. I much prefer it over the matte.

wait until you look at something with a dark background... lol

it's a great mac (i think); i just want a matte screen, a choice (like on the macbook pro).

to each his own, eh?

[iREZ]

but alas...just like the macbook, i dont think we'll ever see an option for the imac. very sad, i was thinking about going the imac route for my home computer too...i think i just might still but use my dell lcd for my design work and keep the imac for play. i also might go the fisherking route, but i dont want the gpu to bite me in the ass.

[0157988944]

you could use your Dell screen for your iMac's primary screen...

[hldan]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

wait until you look at something with a dark background... lol

it's a great mac (i think); i just want a matte screen, a choice (like on the macbook pro).

to each his own, eh?

LOL, your funny! Ho long did you think it would be before i viewed a dark screen movie? I have used laptops with glossy screens so I knew what I was getting. I love this machine and especially the glossy screen.

See the problem is it only takes just ONE person to say something negative and then 10 more will agree without even seeing it for themselves. The GPU in the iMac has definitely proven that. So many people haven't even played one game on the iMac so they haven't even compared how it performs over their last computer's GPU, they just decide it's bad because everyone else follows someone else's opinion.

The photo editors need to get their head out of their a$$, they want the iMac because it's near perfect for their needs yet the glossy complaints have scared them. Simply turn off back lights in the house and edit your pics. It's unnecessary to make such a huge deal.
Apple has share holders to keep happy and if they thought the glossy screen and GPU would be deal breakers for the MAJORITY those features wouldn't have found home on the iMac.

What's laughable is Apple is the last company to incorporate glossy screens into their computers and PC users have been using them for years but when Apple does it people bitch like it's the first time they have ever seen glossy.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by iREZ 

but alas...just like the macbook, i dont think we'll ever see an option for the imac. very sad, i was thinking about going the imac route for my home computer too...i think i just might still but use my dell lcd for my design work and keep the imac for play. i also might go the fisherking route, but i dont want the gpu to bite me in the ass.

no bitten ass here yet!

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by hldan 

LOL, your funny! Ho long did you think it would be before i viewed a dark screen movie? I have used laptops with glossy screens so I knew what I was getting. I love this machine and especially the glossy screen.

See the problem is it only takes just ONE person to say something negative and then 10 more will agree without even seeing it for themselves. The GPU in the iMac has definitely proven that. So many people haven't even played one game on the iMac so they haven't even compared how it performs over their last computer's GPU, they just decide it's bad because everyone else follows someone else's opinion.

The photo editors need to get their head out of their a$$, they want the iMac because it's near perfect for their needs yet the glossy complaints have scared them. Simply turn off back lights in the house and edit your pics. It's unnecessary to make such a huge deal.
Apple has share holders to keep happy and if they thought the glossy screen and GPU would be deal breakers for the MAJORITY those features wouldn't have found home on the iMac.

What's laughable is Apple is the last company to incorporate glossy screens into their computers and PC users have been using them for years but when Apple does it people bitch like it's the first time they have ever seen glossy.

relax dude...for every 1 person that says a glossy screen doesn't bother them, there are 20 more people defending their purchases. naysayers aren't complaining about the glossy screen and how terrible it is, it's that they're terrible for us users and appreciators of matte screens. a simple option would've finished this argument once and for all, but the omission of an option is present thus there is an argument. i just don't understand how people think it's an upgrade. remember that the industry for years would sell stupid looking tents that went over monitors to REDUCE glare, LCD's solved this when they were matte, now they're glossy and i can't WAIT till a company starts selling stupid looking tents specifically for the imacs.

[0157988944]

irez, you're starting it ALL over again.

[fisherKing]

it IS a ridiculous, endless argument.
let's just agree that some like the new screen, some don't.
there's no point in ANYONE trying to convince anyone else there is a right or wrong here;
it's all opinion.

so..what else is there to discuss?

[0157988944]

Religion and Politics

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

Religion and Politics

good, the non-controversial subjects.

so, the catholic church: glossy or matte?...

[hldan]

Originally Posted by ejack 

I can't help wondering if Apple just figured those of us who do lots of Photoshop work would end up with Mac Pros anyway. I won't make a final decision until I have the chance to get in a store and play with them a bit, but based on what I've been hearing, it is likely that the glossy screen on the new iMacs will keep me from jumping the PC ship as planned.

Hmm, interesting, the PC ship has tons more glossy. I just love how these PC people FIND yet another excuse to not buy a Mac.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by hldan 

Hmm, interesting, the PC ship has tons more glossy. I just love how these PC people FIND yet another excuse to not buy a Mac.

personally, i have always used a mac; and i hate the glossy screen on the imac. that's just me, of course.
what's your point?

for SOME photo or graphics pros, a glossy screen is not ok. for some people who are neither...a glossy screen is not ok.
for everyone else, there's the iMac.

let it rest already!

[hldan]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

personally, i have always used a mac; and i hate the glossy screen on the imac. that's just me, of course.
what's your point?

for SOME photo or graphics pros, a glossy screen is not ok. for some people who are neither...a glossy screen is not ok.
for everyone else, there's the iMac.

let it rest already!

Umm, Fisherking, did you read what you wrote? You said, "for some people who are NEITHER a glossy screen is NOT okay" "for everyone else there's the iMac"?

Wouldn't everyone else be the "neither"?

[L'enfanTerrible]

Originally Posted by MacNNUK 

Is it because someone at Apple doesn't understand the difference between transmitted & reflected light.

Glossy photo's look better than matt, because they reflect more light back, and give greater depth of colour.

Computer screens transmit light from the back, so you do NOT want a reflective screen at front, distracting you.

I don't know if you've been quoted already, but this is bang on.

It's a shame really. I am at my iMac G5 right now, and I love it compared to the new ones.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by MacNNUK 

Is it because someone at Apple doesn't understand the difference between transmitted & reflected light.

Glossy photo's look better than matt, because they reflect more light back, and give greater depth of colour.

Computer screens transmit light from the back, so you do NOT want a reflective screen at front, distracting you.

Originally Posted by L'enfanTerrible 

I don't know if you've been quoted already, but this is bang on.

It's a shame really. I am at my iMac G5 right now, and I love it compared to the new ones.

Have you actually seen this display in the environment you're using your G5 in? I was worried that I'd have a lot of problems with it when I got it, but with a bright light above and to one side of me, and a bright window reflecting off a very bright wall behind me, there are NO reflections and no glare.

I'm glad I took the plunge and bought the new iMac. I'm just very puzzled why so many people take such rigid and harsh positions on it-especially when most people posting here do not have any experience with the display in their home environments-and thus everything they post is speculation.

[fisherKing]

i dont get it; who are you trying to convince? you got a new imac, and love it. that's great.
i looked at it (twice), and knew it wouldnt work for me...
my matte screen does just well enough during the day (it kicks ass at night!).
a reflective screen would not work for me,

really, some people like it some dont.
what else is there to say?

peace!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

really, some people like it some dont.
what else is there to say?

peace!

What there is to say is "how can you tell it won't work?" You seem to have actually had experience with displays in your location that indicates potential problems, but what about all the other people who just say "if it's glossy, then it's crap"? That frustrates me to no end, because they're not even trying, just dismissing the machine completely. Apple makes some amazing products, and every time something new comes out, a bunch of people show up here to tear it apart, argue about design decisions, complain that Steve must have had indigestion and question the sanity of people who actually like the new product. I get really tired of that.

[0157988944]

Then, they'll get it, love it and prepare to tear apart the next one.

[L'enfanTerrible]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Have you actually seen this display in the environment you're using your G5 in? I was worried that I'd have a lot of problems with it when I got it, but with a bright light above and to one side of me, and a bright window reflecting off a very bright wall behind me, there are NO reflections and no glare.

I'm glad I took the plunge and bought the new iMac. I'm just very puzzled why so many people take such rigid and harsh positions on it-especially when most people posting here do not have any experience with the display in their home environments-and thus everything they post is speculation.

Granted, I've only used the new iMacs in a daylight situation, in a retail store that has a lot of windows, and I appreciate that in my living room it would probably be fine. I wouldn't say my displeasure with the glossy screen is speculation, but it is subjective.

I just prefer the matte display, thats all. I wish Apple would have made it an option. A matte stock model with the option for glossy, like on the MBP's.. I'd even settle for the other way round.

[0157988944]

I'm in the boat that the glossy is nowhere near as bad as it sounds, but you have to appreciate the fact that you can still perfectly see the contents of a matte screen with a light shining directly on it.