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Parky · Nov 4, 2003, 08:29 AM

It seems Apple has done UK Apple Store purchasers of Panther a big favour.

Not only have many users lost data on their Firewire 400 and 800 drives after installing Panther, but now it seems FileVault is also destroying user information.

It really looks like Apple have taken their eyes off the ball in the QA department, with many bad but avoidable slip ups in the past few months.

How can so mant faults be getting through :-

OS X 10.2.8 messed up Ethernet for many users, and this involved no 3rd parties, just Apple hardware.

iTunes 4 for Windows caused problems for XP users.

15" PowerBooks which must have been in development for months, are having issues with white spots on the screens.

Now we have major problems with Panther OS X 10.3, this is not going to send out a good message to potential new business customers.

More testing is required I think, rather than shipping out software with this level of problems.

Ian

typoon · Nov 4, 2003, 10:13 AM

It's only certain people who are having issues with Panther. I for one am VERY happy with it. It even recognized the 2 USB cards I installed (no driver installs either). You don't hear much about the good things or from those who don't have problems. I've installed Panther on 3 Machines and no problems. The install was simple and fast. I don't think Apple is able to test every configuration with 10.3 so there are bound to be bugs. They will be worked out.

iTunes issues was with Windows 2000 and they fixed them almost immediately as well. That also was NOT the case on all machines. I installed iTunes on my Windows 2000 box at work and it went just fine.

Parky · Nov 4, 2003, 10:18 AM

Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Panther is great.

It's just a bit of a risk to install it on a machine with an external Firewire drive.

I'm going to put it on my PowerBook as soon as I get it, but I will wait until the Firewire problem is resolved before I risk the iMac.

I really don't want to loose the 30GB of Music (all legal, but too big to backup)) and all my photos (backed up)

Ian

SMacTech · Nov 4, 2003, 10:28 AM

I am not aware of FW400 problems, other than FW800 drives being plugged into FW400 ports and causing problems. If you have one of those drives using the Oxford 922 chip, apply the firmware updates if available from the manufacturer. I haven't had any FW issues, but I have no FW800 drives. I have used many externals with Panther without any problems.

Xerxes · Nov 4, 2003, 10:49 AM

Panther is a GREAT system and I have no problems with it whatsoever. I have 2 firewire 400 drives connected to it all day and not one has had a problem. It even Journalled them both without formatting or destroying any data.

FileVault, well I haven't used it and am always suspicious of these encryption softwares, regardless of platform. Ever used XP's security software. It even stops you using it.

The way I see it is problems happen after any upgrade with any OS. It is inevitable and Apple cannot make it's software/hardware to work perfectly with all types of systems. Problems happen in manufacturing as they do with software development.

All these systems are created by people, and you must always leave room for human error.

The key to any upgrade is a good, soild backup system and sorry to say this but firewire drives are not the best ways to backup. Fastest and easiest they are, most secure they are not. They are hard drives after all..

If people are serious about their data, they really need to look into 2 or 3 different methods to counter any 1 that can go wrong. Perhaps 1 tape drive, one DVD RW, and one FireWire.

Costly, maybe. But at least data has more chance of being secure.

Originally posted by Parky:
It seems Apple has done UK Apple Store purchasers of Panther a big favour.

Not only have many users lost data on their Firewire 400 and 800 drives after installing Panther, but now it seems FileVault is also destroying user information.

It really looks like Apple have taken their eyes off the ball in the QA department, with many bad but avoidable slip ups in the past few months.

How can so mant faults be getting through :-

OS X 10.2.8 messed up Ethernet for many users, and this involved no 3rd parties, just Apple hardware.

iTunes 4 for Windows caused problems for XP users.

15" PowerBooks which must have been in development for months, are having issues with white spots on the screens.

Now we have major problems with Panther OS X 10.3, this is not going to send out a good message to potential new business customers.

More testing is required I think, rather than shipping out software with this level of problems.

Ian

KidRed · Nov 4, 2003, 11:16 AM

No problems with my FW 400 drive and I don't need to encrypt my data so only joyous experiences with Panther thus far.

Parky · Nov 4, 2003, 11:23 AM

I was advised by my Firewire Drive manufacturer (Mac&More) to avoid Panther for the moment if I want to use the drive.

They have had reports and there are many other report on the Apple support pages of problems with Firewire 400 drives and OS X 10.3

I know Apple claim it is FW800 only, but they seems to be some confusion.

I'm also sure there are many people who have had no issues with Panther, I'm sure I will be the same on my PowerBook, but I don't want to risk my FW400 drive just yet.

Ian

typoon · Nov 4, 2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Parky:
Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Panther is great.

It's just a bit of a risk to install it on a machine with an external Firewire drive.

I'm going to put it on my PowerBook as soon as I get it, but I will wait until the Firewire problem is resolved before I risk the iMac.

I really don't want to loose the 30GB of Music (all legal, but too big to backup)) and all my photos (backed up)

Ian

Supposedly if you just remove it before install the plug the drive back in it should be fine.

Parky · Nov 4, 2003, 11:33 AM

It's not that simple.

If you reboot while the drive is connected anytime in the future, it still corupts the drive.

To use it you have to connect the drive after the machine boots and unmount and disconnect before you shut down.

This seems a bit of a pain and risky if you happen to forget the process.

Ian

SomeToast · Nov 4, 2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Parky:
I really don't want to loose the 30GB of Music (all legal, but too big to backup)) and all my photos (backed up)

You should probably tape them down to be on the safe side. If your files are loose, you might just lose them to a strong wind!

typoon · Nov 4, 2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Parky:
It's not that simple.

If you reboot while the drive is connected anytime in the future, it still corupts the drive.

To use it you have to connect the drive after the machine boots and unmount and disconnect before you shut down.

This seems a bit of a pain and risky if you happen to forget the process.

Ian

This problem may not be an OS X problem exclusively. Several Manufacturers have issued firmware updates to correct this problem. If you have one of the drives update with the firmware.

Parky · Nov 4, 2003, 01:05 PM

I suggest you read around a little more.

They have posted fixes, but the problem was a change to OS X that caused it, obviousley.

Apple have admitted there is a problem and will release a fix for it.

I have actually spoken to my drive manufacturer and they advise waiting for the Apple response before jumping in with a quick fix from the drive supplier.

Ian