Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Faisal Shahzad Arrested for Time Square SUV Bomb

Faisal Shahzad Arrested for Time Square SUV Bomb
Thread Tools
k2director
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 02:50 AM
 
An American is arrested for the SUV bomb....and lo and behold, he happens to have an Arabic name and is a Muslim. I wonder if there could be a connection between this man's Muslim identity and his desire to murder as many innocent people as possible. Could it be???

Of course, this, in the recent past, has been an unpopular question to raise around here, as well as in the American press. Remember the Fort Hood shooting, and how so many journalists and editorialists preferred to blame that Islamic wacko's murderous rampage on "workplace stress"? I certainly remember many posters in this forum attempting to ignore all the evidence pointing to Hasan's religious motivation (such as yelling Alahu Akbar as he fired his gun, and his seeing America as being "at war with Islam".). But despite all that evidence (and more), few people wanted to actually acknowledge that an American army officer could choose his religion over his country, and they tried to conjure up every other unlikely explanation for Hasan's actions. You can see all of that ugly denial right here: http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...ko-kills-13-a/

Now we have another Muslim American arrested for attempting to kill hundreds of fellow citizens. I wonder if we'll see the same level of denial in this case?? Anyone want to place a bet? Will people fall all over themselves again, trying to suggest that this wasn't yet another act of Islamic terror at the hands of a traiterous fellow citizen?

My bet is: no, there won't be similar denial this time. I think people finally started coming to terms with Fort Hood being a successful act of Islamic terror (even if Obama hasn't quite managed to get there), and they're far less willing to stick their head in the sand this time around. Throw in another Muslim wacko trying to blow up an American airplane last Christmas, along with Muslims killing dozens of people in Russian subway bombings a month or so ago, and you have the makings of a realistic, clear-eyed view of the serious domestic threat that wacko Muslims represent in this country.

I also notice how quickly the Obama administration is in calling this an "Act of Terror", with Eric Holder holding a news conference within a few hours of making an arrest. Contrast this to Obama, days after Fort Hood, holding no news conference but repeatedly counseling people to "not jump to conclusions". Politically, Obama knows he can no longer behave like such a limp-wristed pussy (despite every instinct in his body to do so).

Anyway, this is all a step in the right direction. Because once you can identify a threat, you have the power to do something about it...
( Last edited by k2director; May 4, 2010 at 03:01 AM. )
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 03:41 AM
 
And cue the usual lame attempts at moral relativism by those compelled by political correctness gone haywire in three... two...
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 04:43 AM
 
This is NSA. Proper Muslim terrorists stay with the vehicle (it's kind of the point that they martyr themselves). And it takes a special kind of talent to make a bomb like that which doesn't go off.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 04:58 AM
 
The administration was soooo desperately hoping this was anything other than a Muslim terrorist event.

Meanwhile, shortly after the initial story broke Revolution Muslim guaranteed there would be future attacks. Is that evidence of their foreknowledge of the conspiracy?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 05:24 AM
 
Keep an eye on the news folks. Warrantless wiretaps appeal coming to a SCOTUS near you soon.

(And it wouldn't surprise me if cash sales of used cars is outlawed too. NSA, IRS win.)
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 05:48 AM
 
They can't outlaw cash sales of private property. The greenback is legal tender for all debts public and private. But they can force states to adopt restrictions and penalties for not registering vehicles with the DMV properly.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 06:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
They can't outlaw cash sales of private property. The greenback is legal tender for all debts public and private.
They essentially already did.
USA v. $124,700.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 06:19 AM
 
Civil forfeiture is ridiculous, but it's different from outlawing legal private property sales.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 06:26 AM
 
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 06:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Civil forfeiture is ridiculous, but it's different from outlawing legal private property sales.
I didn't say outlawing "legal private property sales". I said "cash sales".
But that's an aside anyways - I'm dead sure that this is more to do with the warrantless wiretap thing. Absolutely positive that this isn't a proper muslim attack but some kind of setup for something else. Hopefully, that should mean something coming from me, since I'm not exactly what you'd call "islam-friendly".

The facts:
1) Obvious muslim terror attack in Fort Hood: "Oh no no no no - the bloke was just stressed".
2) Pathetic bomb in Times Square: "It's terrorism!". Why no attempt to say the bloke is just stressed?
3) Whoever made this bomb can't light petrol. I don't know if you've ever tried not to light petrol but it's kind of difficult - I put two eggcups worth of the stuff in my incinerator the other day and it blew the lid off. And hey, even if it does light, get some non-explosive fertiliser to absorb the blast so it's not too effective.

We'll see if I'm right. Keep an eye on that wiretap appeal.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Hawkeye_a
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 09:15 AM
 
Here's how i predict it will probably play out..
-As an American citizen, he will be be afforded a "fair" trial.
-His lawyer will possibly claim insanity
-Immigration guidelines will not change

My guideline to those predictions ? It happened a couple of years ago when a Muslim dude, ran into a Synagogue in the north-west and opened fire. Got off light, after his lawyer claimed he was insane. Justice, yea ? IMHO
     
finboy
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Garden of Paradise Motel, Suite 3D
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
This is NSA. Proper Muslim terrorists stay with the vehicle (it's kind of the point that they martyr themselves). And it takes a special kind of talent to make a bomb like that which doesn't go off.
I thought this "bomb" was some kind of a joke. Wasn't it just a bunch of different things in the car that might blow up? No way people can argue that this guy was trained in Pakistan or something.

[Of course it's connected -- he just got back from Pakistan. How f*cking stupid does the media/admin/Left think we are?]

Arizona is a pretty good example of what happens when the Feds (Congress, ICE, whoever) ignores the situation or pushes their own agenda for too long. What happens when folks get tired of the lack of legitimate profiling? Can't wait to see!

Edit:
I forgot to mention the language part -- Holder's statement yesterday was a joke too, about it not being a terrorist incident but it was about creating terror. Judas Priest, these folks can't even keep their politically-correct approved usage straight. Bloomberg said this was probably some homegrown, militia type upset about the health care legislation.

What a bunch of tools. They're too busy worrying about offending people to actually keep us safe.
( Last edited by finboy; May 4, 2010 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Added the Holder stuff)
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 01:21 PM
 
So are you mad about the language being used to describe these attacks or what is being done about the attacks?

I'm a little confused. It sounds to me like you are just mad at everything and looking for something to be mad about.

Okay, both of the attacks were by muslims. Now what? What do we do? What is the exact course of action?

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 02:05 PM
 
I'm tending to think the guy wasn't the brightest crayon in the drawer. Technically the bomb was a joke. Big explosions happen when all the stuff is tightly confined in a sturdy container or such, not in the back of a POS SUV.
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
So are you mad about the language being used to describe these attacks or what is being done about the attacks?

I'm a little confused. It sounds to me like you are just mad at everything and looking for something to be mad about.

Okay, both of the attacks were by muslims. Now what? What do we do? What is the exact course of action?
We can start by allowing for much more common sense profiling that targets people that really are likely to be murderous terrorists, instead of playing the asinine politically correct game of searching white 78-year old grandmothers as they board airplanes.

We can be honest that the Bush administration's Patriot Act is necessary, and stop whining about it.

We can send non-citizen terrorists that attempt to kill American civilians to military courts, and hang or shoot them as spies and saboteurs, like we did in WW2.

We can acknowledge that Islam has a violence problem in the modern world...

We can get serious about a nation of extreme Muslims pursuing nuclear weapons, and threaten them with more than limp-wristed sanctions....ie, we can tell them they face military action, and then follow through if necessary.

The list goes on...
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Now what? What do we do? What is the exact course of action?
Bend over.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
torsoboy
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 03:42 PM
 
Maybe this was an initiation test for him? Maybe he wanted into the terrorist organization, and they said, "go show us you are worthy to be here", and this was his attempt. He obviously failed, and the terrorists are probably glad they didn't let him in to begin with.
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I wonder if the anti-Muslim militia here at MacNN would care to enlighten us about how to control religious wackos. Will they fall behind their prophet Malkin and flush the constitution down the toilet?
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 07:22 PM
 
There we go:
AFP: Police cameras to flood Manhattan to prevent attacks
Saturday's failed terrorist bomb in the Times Square tourist hot spot has provided the authorities with a new argument for expanding a sometimes controversial security blanket of cameras, sensors and analytical software.
Need solution implementing? Create problem!
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 07:38 PM
 
Cameras aren't a solution:
Cameras won't help. They don't prevent terrorist attacks, and their forensic value after the fact is minimal. In the Times Square case, surely there's enough other evidence -- the car's identification number, the auto body shop the stolen license plates came from, the name of the fertilizer store -- to identify the guy. We will almost certainly not need the camera footage. The images released so far, like the images in so many other terrorist attacks, may make for exciting television, but their value to law enforcement officers is limited.
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 10:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
I wonder if the anti-Muslim militia here at MacNN would care to enlighten us about how to control religious wackos. Will they fall behind their prophet Malkin and flush the constitution down the toilet?
In what manner is anyone advocating policy that essentially flushes the constitution down the toilet? What you have is the product of an extremely diverse country with complicated choices. Don't get me wrong, the government botched this just as they've botched a great many things, but doing nothing was apparently not an option. In some cases there are very positive accounts indicating that some states did better than others, but for so many to have to start from scratch was... not very elegant at all. With such terrible stories, it's easy to lose perspective. Almost 40% of the 112,000 Japanese interned were illegal residents. This, at a time of an extremely hostile war with their country of origin; the US had no choice, but to consider the possibility of a horrible event. There's nothing in the Constitution mandating ignorance and complacency. We just botched it.

I sometimes wonder how quickly the anti-disagreement bunch here would readily abandon their principles if they thought their own asses were on the line.
ebuddy
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2010, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
In what manner is anyone advocating policy that essentially flushes the constitution down the toilet? What you have is the product of an extremely diverse country with complicated choices. Don't get me wrong, the government botched this just as they've botched a great many things, but doing nothing was apparently not an option. In some cases there are very positive accounts indicating that some states did better than others, but for so many to have to start from scratch was... not very elegant at all. With such terrible stories, it's easy to lose perspective. Almost 40% of the 112,000 Japanese interned were illegal residents. This, at a time of an extremely hostile war with their country of origin; the US had no choice, but to consider the possibility of a horrible event. There's nothing in the Constitution mandating ignorance and complacency. We just botched it.
What a white wash. Arrest and imprisonment without charge does violate the constitution. When you advocate a solution, it has to be legal, at a minimum.
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 08:59 AM
 
I find it interesting that he was on the No Fly list, paid cash for a ticket, and still got on the plane. I bet he wasn't even searched.

Also of note, Shahzad worked for Frank Abignale's company "Don't Be Caught Off-Guard", who were employed by The Affinion Group as spokespeople. Some of you may know Frank - he's the "Catch Me If You Can" guy - former con man, former FBI... Interesting tale this is turning out to be.

note: details keep changing as sources get their stories straight. Shahzad apparently was a financial analyst for Affinion, Frank was the spokesman.
( Last edited by osiris; May 5, 2010 at 09:13 AM. )
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Lint Police
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: May 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 09:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I find it interesting that he was on the No Fly list, paid cash for a ticket, and still got on the plane. I bet he wasn't even searched.
Yet the justice department continues to pat themselves on the back for getting lucky. Twice.

cause we're not quite "the fuzz"
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 11:01 AM
 
He was placed on the no-fly list after the bombing attempt incident.

He was arrested less than 24 hours after being placed on the no-fly list.

But I do think there is a slip-up somewhere.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 11:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
He was placed on the no-fly list after the bombing attempt incident.

He was arrested less than 24 hours after being placed on the no-fly list.

But I do think there is a slip-up somewhere.
Emirates Airline apparently failed to check the no-fly list. Shahzad was put on the list about 7 hours before the flight. The flight was halted at the gate after the final passenger manifest was sent to the government after boarding was completed.

Security Lapses Let Bomb Suspect Board Plane - NYTimes.com

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Now we have another Muslim American arrested for attempting to kill hundreds of fellow citizens. I wonder if we'll see the same level of denial in this case?? Anyone want to place a bet? Will people fall all over themselves again, trying to suggest that this wasn't yet another act of Islamic terror at the hands of a traiterous fellow citizen?

My bet is: no, there won't be similar denial this time. I think people finally started coming to terms with Fort Hood being a successful act of Islamic terror (even if Obama hasn't quite managed to get there), and they're far less willing to stick their head in the sand this time around.
I think the facts in this case are a lot less ambiguous than they initially were in the Hasan case for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that Shahzad has freely admitted his intentions, and Hasan was in a coma for some time immediately following the events at Ft. Hood. As I pointed out at the time, just because you were eventually proved correct (as I freely admitted might be the case then) does not mean that the rush to judgment you exhibited was somehow justified.

It would be interesting to see, in practical terms, what aspects of the Patriot Act or other anti-terrorism measures instituted since 9/11 improved the U.S. government's response in this case, or whether a similar result would have been achieved absent those measures.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 11:29 AM
 
Did I missed the details of Hasan case? Was that a terrorist act in that case?

This bombing incident was obviously a terrorist act. Don't think anyone here is denying it.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
This bombing incident was obviously a terrorist act. Don't think anyone here is denying it.
I'm denying it. I'm sticking with my NSA theory.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 11:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I'm denying it. I'm sticking with my NSA theory.
Also, cops appreciate the chance to carry around assault weapons for a day.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 12:07 PM
 
This guy has the bomb making skills of a Christian terrorist.

As I mentioned before, Christian terrorist bomb making skills are poor because they are afraid of blowing themselves up.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I think the facts in this case are a lot less ambiguous than they initially were in the Hasan case for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that Shahzad has freely admitted his intentions, and Hasan was in a coma for some time immediately following the events at Ft. Hood. As I pointed out at the time, just because you were eventually proved correct (as I freely admitted might be the case then) does not mean that the rush to judgment you exhibited was somehow justified.

It would be interesting to see, in practical terms, what aspects of the Patriot Act or other anti-terrorism measures instituted since 9/11 improved the U.S. government's response in this case, or whether a similar result would have been achieved absent those measures.
Hasan was in the US Army too. I don't think you have to be some sort of sympathizer type to hold on for a time to the possibility there's a different explanation.

I'd feel the same way if either person was a cop.
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I think the facts in this case are a lot less ambiguous than they initially were in the Hasan case for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that Shahzad has freely admitted his intentions, and Hasan was in a coma for some time immediately following the events at Ft. Hood. As I pointed out at the time, just because you were eventually proved correct (as I freely admitted might be the case then) does not mean that the rush to judgment you exhibited was somehow justified.
Saying I made "a rush to judgement" is laughable. I was one of the few people simply making a common sense appraisal of the evidence on hand....which is something the media and all of us do regularly when it comes to breaking news.

The early facts were not ambiguous enough to prevent the media from at least considering the possibility -- and especially the likelihood -- that Hasan's murderous rampage was an act of Islamic terror. When I started my earlier thread, I said these were the known facts about Hasan (apart from him killing 13 people):

* He was a devout Muslim
* He sought a wife that wore a Hijab and prayed 5 times a day
* Had disturbed other army officers by saying that Jihadists fighting American soldiers were justified
* Had been investigated by the FBI for making extremist statements on web sites, celebrating Jihad and suicide bombers
* And, worst of all, yelled "Allahu Akbar!" (Arabic for "God is Great") as he shot his victims.

We already knew all this, but so much of the media refused to act like this *could even be* an act of terror....even though the evidence supported that explanation more than any other. Instead, the media preferred to run in a totally different direction, spouting off about combat stress, even though Hasan had never seen a warzone in his life. Here's are not one but FOUR stories/editorials that were running at the New York Times, long after I posted my original complaint about media bias:

Combat Stress and the Fort Hood Gunman - Room for Debate Blog - NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/op...07sat1.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/op...leland.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/op...t.html?_r=1&hp


* In fact, in the NY Times, the *only* story that had anything to do with Hasan's act and Islam was a story about how American Muslim groups issued statements condemning Hasan and how they're bracing for a new round of discrimination. The whole skew was of the article was about supposedly unfair discrimination!

** I found similar BS at the CS Monitor and Washington Post.

** CBS and NBC decided not to even report that Hasan was a muslim for a while: CBS & NBC Fail to ID Hasan as Muslim; ABC's Raddatz Relays: 'I Wish His Name was Smith' | NewsBusters.org

There were NO facts or prior history to suggest that Hasan's attack was a symptom of combat stress, but that was the angle the media CHOSE to look at, and ignore the possibility that it was an act of terror....an explaination supported by things like his yelling "Alahu Akbar" and the FBI's earlier investigations into his extremism, and fellow soldiers reports of him justifying terrorist acts, etc. etc. THAT SHOWED EXTREME BIAS on the part of the media, and it showed extreme bias on the part of a lot of posters here at MacNN.

Those posters, in fact, eventually fell back on the old "Well, you may be right, but no one should judge because we don't have all the facts" excuse. Which would be just fine, except the media NEVER EVER works that way. When the Balloon Boy spectacle took place, it took no time for the media to start wondering, with far less evidence than Hasan presented them with, whether it was a hoax or not. When the Xmas Detroit Bomber tried to light up that plane, the media was very quick to begin wondering about terrorist motivations, etc. That's how the media works normally -- it starts to discuss theories based on where the evidence is pointing, but in the Hasan case, so many journalists willfully refused to start heading in that direction.

And why would they do that? Because Hasan's case threatened a lot of fantasy-land illusions in the American media and the Obama Administration, which was still enjoying its honeymoon with journalists (and still is, really). As I said at the time:

"An American Major murdering a group of soldiers because he thought Islam required it doesn't look good when you've staked a major part of your foreign policy on:

1) Extending an "open hand" to the Muslim world

2) Avoiding an armed confrontation with Iran over its development of nukes

3) Dilly-dallying over a decision on whether to commit more troops to Afghanistan, or whether to begin the process of cutting and running (even though Obama repeatedly called Afghanistan the "Necessary War" during his campaign).

4) A commitment to close Guantanemo (which is running very late as it is)

5) To rollback Bush's "oppressive" wire-tapping laws which "discriminate" against particular groups in this country.

"

All these things were valuable to the Obama Administration and the vast majority of the American press that supported him. And Hasan's murderous act would be very inconvenient for that agenda, so the media (and administration) chose to stick its head in the sand and avoid a common sense appraisal of the evidence as long as possible.

In the end, I wasn't proven right about Hasan because I was lucky. I was proven right because I can put 2 & 2 together....
( Last edited by k2director; May 5, 2010 at 01:47 PM. )
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 01:54 PM
 
* He was a devout Muslim
* He sought a wife that wore a Hijab and prayed 5 times a day
* Had disturbed other army officers by saying that Jihadists fighting American soldiers were justified
* Had been investigated by the FBI for making extremist statements on web sites, celebrating Jihad and suicide bombers
* And, worst of all, yelled "Allahu Akbar!" (Arabic for "God is Great") as he shot his victims.
How does the above make him a terrorist? Because of his Muslim beliefs?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2010, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Saying I made "a rush to judgement" is laughable. I was one of the few people simply making a common sense appraisal of the evidence on hand....which is something the media and all of us do regularly when it comes to breaking news.

The early facts were not ambiguous enough to prevent the media from at least considering the possibility -- and especially the likelihood -- that Hasan's murderous rampage was an act of Islamic terror.
I think they did. I think that possibility was mentioned in a lot of stories on the subject. But you are ignoring other aspects of the story. First, as subego mentioned, Hasan was a U.S. soldier, which should naturally cause hesitation about his motives. Second, members of his family indicated his extreme stress about being deployed to Afghanistan, which was put in the context of his experience counseling soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder. Are reporters supposed to ignore of all that? I think some media outlets used that speculation as a jumping-off point to have a larger discussion about the issue of combat stress (as you linked below) which is a worthy subject in itself, but I don't think it was ever intended to be a definitive evaluation of Hasan.

There simply wasn't much "news" about Hasan in the immediate aftermath of the event to report on. He was in a coma. The government reported that its investigation was ongoing. Did you expect the media to run days of stories about how this COULD have been an act of terror? That would not have been responsible journalism either.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 07:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
What a white wash. Arrest and imprisonment without charge does violate the constitution. When you advocate a solution, it has to be legal, at a minimum.
Far be it from me to defend FDR as this is what I've been trying to tell y'all about crossing an angry and powerful Progressive. What you see with the manner in which internment was carried out is an overreaction to a complex issue. This doesn't mean it's unconstitutional.

When you say it was illegal or unconstitutional, you're really just saying you don't like it. Per Korematsu v. United States, the SCOTUS upheld internment. I'm not advocating anything by saying they botched this, I'm just not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that 40% illegal Japanese residents in the country didn't pose a complex national security question; one that few if any other countries could or would have to consider to this degree.

Intel claimed a dire problem of espionage on the West Coast, so... a great many of all nationalities with the declared enemy as their country of origin residing in the West Coast were relocated to camps. Not all, just those residing in the exclusion zone. Germans, Italians, and Japanese aliens alike all received a hearing and upon arrival at their respective camps were allowed free travel to anywhere in the US with the exception of the West coast exclusion zone which was lifted shortly before the end of the war. In fact, hundreds entered the camps of their own free will.

I just want to make sure we don't get into emotional outbursts attempting to make something of this that it was not.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 07:19 AM
 
BTW, why is this story getting so much attention? I've never seen stupidity and failure to this degree in an attempted bombing. I mean, you got the wrong fertilizer essentially guaranteeing some cushion against the detonation?

I'm not one to jump on conspiracy theories, but this doesn't smell right. The amount of coverage it's getting only makes me more suspect.
ebuddy
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 07:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
this doesn't smell right.
Correct answer.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 01:47 PM
 
The policy implemented under Pres. Bush after 9/11 only required airlines to check the no-fly list every 24 hours.

I see were the slip up is.

The policy now is to change it to every 2 hours.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
BTW, why is this story getting so much attention? I've never seen stupidity and failure to this degree in an attempted bombing. I mean, you got the wrong fertilizer essentially guaranteeing some cushion against the detonation?

I'm not one to jump on conspiracy theories, but this doesn't smell right. The amount of coverage it's getting only makes me more suspect.
Uh, the reason it's getting so much attention is because it shows how ineffective our politically-correct government is in combating Muslim wackos who are trying to kill hundreds of American civilians. You'd think that is indeed news-worthy...just as newsworthy as run-away federal spending or who left Dancing with the Stars.

No one died in this attack, but only because we got lucky. Had Muslim Wacko #534,502 (aka Faisal Shahzad) been a better bomber, potentially hundreds of Americans would have been dead. Even then, our wonderful Terrorist Screening system almost let this Muslim animal fly out of the country.

Same thing could have been said for the Detroit airplane bomber at Xmas. Had he been a better bomber, that story would have ended far worse. In that case, our government ignored warnings from the bomber's own father, and allowed this wacko on a 1-way flight to America. The only thing the government was good at was reading this murderous muslim wacko his Miranda rights!

Unfortunately, we didn't get lucky with the muslim wacko Nidal Hasan--despite repeated warnings of his radicalization, he was *allowed* to murder 13 American soldiers.

All of these stories and others point to a Muslim threat that is being carried to American shores, and that the government seems incapable of stopping it.

If that's not newsworthy, what is? I wouldn't trust the press to report on what's important by itself, but they are probably noticing a lot of public interest through hits on their web sites, ratings for newscasts, etc.

A lot of people voted for this administration because they thought Obama's "multilateralist" approach and his promise for more positive engagement with the Muslim world would be an antidote to Bush's "divisive" and "caustic" ways. They also wanted an end to Bush's "police state" Patriot Act, which let the government monitor wackos who were more likely to try to kill Americans.

Well, America got what it wanted -- an empty-suit, affirmative-action president who has presided over MORE attacks on Americans, not fewer, than Bush.

Sadly, this angle will never be investigated by the American press, because so many of them are aligned with Obama's own ideaology. BUt I think it helps explains Americans interest in this story....
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
How does the above make him a terrorist? Because of his Muslim beliefs?
Yes, his Muslim beliefs combined with the fact that he murdered 13 un-armed people in cold blood make him a terrorist.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Uh, the reason it's getting so much attention is because it shows how ineffective our politically-correct government is in combating Muslim wackos who are trying to kill hundreds of American civilians. You'd think that is indeed news-worthy...just as newsworthy as run-away federal spending or who left Dancing with the Stars.
What "politically-correct" policies impeded the government's ability to prevent this guy from carrying out his plot?

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Yes, his Muslim beliefs combined with the fact that he murdered 13 un-armed people in cold blood make him a terrorist.
Or a religious person with mental problems.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Or a religious person with mental problems.
Here we go, again. Radical Muslim apologists like you suggest Hasan's murderous actions stem from mental problems -- as if he was sick and not capable of understanding what he was doing. The truth is Hasan was as sane as can be; he encountered people who represented a very different value system than his, and on the eve of his deployment to fight "fellow Muslims", he finally decided to act in a decisive way....by killing American soldiers and going out in a blaze of glory while fighting the infidel.

The fact that you try to suggest that Hasan is a *victim* of mental illness is an insult to all the people who died by his hand, and all of those who lost someone in the shootings. That's vile and obscene.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if the next muslim wacko happens to blow up, shoot or gas your own family. Maybe, some day, fate will grant us that opportunity, and as you mourn your murdered spouse or children or parents, I can start explaining away the murderer's actions with the cover of mental illness, and absolve the killer of any real responsibility. I'll enjoy having that conversation with you then....
( Last edited by k2director; May 6, 2010 at 07:26 PM. )
     
hyteckit
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2010, 08:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Here we go, again. Radical Muslim apologists like you suggest Hasan's murderous actions stem from mental problems -- as if he was sick and not capable of understanding what he was doing. The truth is Hasan was as sane as can be; he encountered people who represented a very different value system than his, and on the eve of his deployment to fight "fellow Muslims", he finally decided to act in a decisive way....by killing American soldiers and going out in a blaze of glory while fighting the infidel.

The fact that you try to suggest that Hasan is a *victim* of mental illness is an insult to all the people who died by his hand, and all of those who lost someone in the shootings. That's vile and obscene.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if the next muslim wacko happens to blow up, shoot or gas your own family. Maybe, some day, fate will grant us that opportunity, and as you mourn your murdered spouse or children or parents, I can start explaining away the murderer's actions with the cover of mental illness, and absolve the killer of any real responsibility. I'll enjoy having that conversation with you then....
I think all religious nuts have mental issues.

Muslim wacko? How about Christian wacko? A wacko is not someone who has mental issues now?

I thought wacko means someone with mental issues.

How do I feel about the a muslim wacko killing my family? The same way I feel about a Christian wacko killing my family.

Why do you ask?

So a Muslim wacko killing your family is different from a Christian wacko killing your family?

Doesn't make any sense.


By the way, you sound like a wacko. You are hoping that some muslim wacko kills my family, just so you will be granted the opportunity to ridicule me?

What kinda f*cking wacko are you? A Christian wacko?

Well, I hope your family stays safe. However, I hope some Christian wacko butt rapes you and tortures you. Serves you right. You probably won't mind as long as the person is not a muslim.
( Last edited by hyteckit; May 6, 2010 at 08:44 PM. )
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zip, Boom, Bam
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 7, 2010, 12:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
I'll enjoy having that conversation with you then....
Nah, you wouldn't. It's never enjoyable seeing the naive have to learn something they've been purposefully blind to the hard way. I want terrorists to fail every time and never be able harm an innocent person. That it means apologists will keep being annoying and clinging to PC insanity that compels them to make up excuses for Islamic radicals- well, that's a very small price to pay.
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 7, 2010, 12:51 AM
 
WOOPS, SOMETHING HAPPENED WITH MY MULTIQUOTE ATTEMPT... HYTECKIT SAID:

"...You are hoping that some muslim wacko kills my family, just so you will be granted the opportunity to ridicule me?

What kinda f*cking wacko are you? A Christian wacko?

Well, I hope your family stays safe. However, I hope some Christian wacko butt rapes you and tortures you. Serves you right. You probably won't mind as long as the person is not a muslim."

AND I SAID:

Actually, I never said I hoped for *anyone* to kill your family. Never did, but if you enjoy playing the victim card here, go ahead.

I asked you if you would keep explaining away a Muslim wacko's behavior if it was *your* family he/she killed. I said in the event that did happen (ie, if "fate" allowed it), I would enjoy trying to deny you an honest explanation of the murderer's actions, and would instead give you a taste of your own medicine by insisting that the wacko's actions were nothing he/she was really responsible for. You know, mental illness. Then if you dared wonder why Islam seems to be behind SO MANY murderous actions in SO MANY countries, I would chide you by claiming that all religions have their wackos (even if the non-Muslim wackos never seem to murder people in droves, in the name of their religion.
( Last edited by k2director; May 7, 2010 at 01:04 AM. )
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 7, 2010, 12:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post

So a Muslim wacko killing your family is different from a Christian wacko killing your family?

Doesn't make any sense..
It is very different, because in the real-world, there are no Christian wackos killing civilians by the dozens, hundreds and thousands in the name of their Christian religion. But there are many many Muslim wackos in the real-world doing just that. See the difference?
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 7, 2010, 02:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Well, I hope your family stays safe. However, I hope some Christian wacko butt rapes you and tortures you. Serves you right. You probably won't mind as long as the person is not a muslim."

AND I SAID:

Actually, I never said I hoped for *anyone* to kill your family. Never did, but if you enjoy playing the victim card here, go ahead.
Shows you the kind of "quality" individual you're dealing with here. He has no value, no redeeming qualities at all, from what I can discern. It's like finding dog sh*t on your shoe, it's best to just scrape him off and remember to watch where you step in the future.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
k2director  (op)
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 7, 2010, 04:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Nah, you wouldn't. It's never enjoyable seeing the naive have to learn something they've been purposefully blind to the hard way. I want terrorists to fail every time and never be able harm an innocent person. That it means apologists will keep being annoying and clinging to PC insanity that compels them to make up excuses for Islamic radicals- well, that's a very small price to pay.
Well said!
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,