[uochris]

Take a look at this.
http://www.macosx.org/index2.html

March 5, 2001 6:00PM MST- MacOSX goes FC! MacOSX build 4k78 has now been deemed Final Candidate by Apple, according to Apple staffers. This build is supposedly no different than 4k73 feature-wise but contains a bunch of bug fixes coupled with optimization both in Aqua and the core OS. No word as to whether this build will be given to devlopers or will stay internal to Apple. Due to the latest OSX Server 2.0 leak, Apple is very caustious about to whom it is giving its builds.

March 5, 2001 6:05PM MST- MacOSX Server 2.0 to be released March 24th, in tandem with the release of MacOSX. Contacts inside Apple state that The server build will be ready to sell at the same time as the consumer version and will be complete with Samba, PHP, MySQL and many other free server software preinstalled.



------------------
http://www.macforce.com

[PowerBookDude]

Cool!

------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport
------------------
Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
------------------
iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
------------------
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport

[3.1416]

I'm suspicious of Server 2.0 shipping on the 24th. Apple has consistently said that OS X Server 2.0 would ship a number of weeks after the client version, which would put it at a WWDC introduction along with WebObjects 5. But great news if it's true.

[gorgonzola]

From Apple > Mac OS X > Server:

Mac OS X Server is planned for release shortly after Mac OS X.

Maybe it's shorter than you thought.

I read at mosrarchives.com that the FC1 build has iTunes GM and that window resizing is as good as WinNT. I'm somewhat skeptical, but on the other hand these guys have been right before. Plus they're getting the builds from Apple.

If so, there's definitely some Steve action going on.

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[King Kong]

>This build is supposedly no different than 4k73 feature-wise

Depressing if true.

Means:

1. Lack of support for many 3rd party video cards.

2. No control of Finder Font size.

3. Yesterday is minimized to "ye...ay" when the date modified column is minimized.

4. (On that note) The Date Modified is minimized as: "Dat...fied".

5. Inability to change system font.

6. Inability to shut off antialiasing.

7. Drag and drop of text is still MIA ( major loss).

8. No labels on folders in the dock.

9. No column resizing.

10. No themes (did you every really think we were going to get them)

....anyone want to add. So that we can be ready with feedback on 3/24.

[Joe Cool]

King Kong, Shut up and use OS 9...
Apple knows things are missing, but time is money.

[JB72]

I wonder if Sketch and HTML editor is in 4k78? Those disapeared and I would assume they're being held onto until GM. So maybe there really is a secret messanger app to be included at the last minute? And a cool intergrated Palm app? I always thought they would make it into GM. Now I don't really think so.

Oh well, at least I'll get to play with a final X while I'm waiting for additional features.



------------------
JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[diabolik]

I can drag and drop text in 4k73. Tried it in Carbon (IE5) and Cocoa (TextEdit).

By the way, I have been running 4k73 for three days with no reboot and classic running the whole time. I have used it extensively with no problems. I have put the machine to sleep and woken it up many times. I know that is not saying much in the big picture of computing but in comparisons to previous builds, it is leaps and bounds ahead.

I agree with most that it is feature lacking, but it is a rock solid and somewhat fast build.

diabolik
(due to tensions around this board lately, i have armed myself with a fire extinguisher)

[Oneota]

Sure, I'll add! It means we get:

• Rock-solid Unix underpinnings
• Awesome graphics layer (with some room for improvement, granted, but already lightyears beyond QuickDraw)
• A change from the same 'ol, same 'ol
• Multiprocessor support
• Decent memory management
• Emacs! Native! On a Mac! How cool is that??
• ...etc.

Sure, there are some issues to work out, but I think what we GAIN with OS X outweighs what we lose.

On the other hand, there are some things I plan to gripe about from day one (you didn't really think I'd manage to get through an entire post without complaining a *little*, didja?):
1. File sharing is completely inadequate -- in order to share something, it must be in your public folder; you can't just click a folder and say "Share this".
2. AppleShare requires TCP/IP; I was promised by some Apple folk that conventional AppleTalk would be supported, but it looks like it's been dropped.
3. Windowshade / Spring-loaded folders. This has been beaten to death, so I won't say any more about it.

Now, those are really my only major OS X complaints at this point (in addition to some of the things you said), and considering the first list, I think Apple's done a kicka$$ job!

[3.1416]

1. Lack of support for many 3rd party video cards

Is this based on anything other than the ZDNet/MSNBC article? Others have reported that Radeon and GeForce cards are supported, the only one that isn't is the old Rage Pro, which isn't such a big deal since most of those users aren't doing heavy 3d anyway. And supposedly Rage Pro support will be added in Puma/Orient/whatever.

My pet peeve continues to be the vertical dock and lack thereof. It is such an obvious usability improvement, but I fear Apple may think it messes up the symmetric look of Aqua or something like that.

[diabolik]

oops

[This message has been edited by diabolik (edited 03-05-2001).]

[the_sisko]

Wow! That was quick! I was expecting Apple to work a few more days before declaring an FC. They must be happy enough with how the operating system runs to declare an FC nearly 3 weeks before shipping.

Apple promised to give developers a build just before Final Release, so this indeed may be what ships to us by the end of the week.

[vasu]

Emacs! Native! On a Mac! How cool is that??

real men use vi :-P

-vasu

[JB72]

I just got my student ADC mailing, but not FC .


------------------
JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[moreno]

ey in the 4K7x they changed the Exclamation Icon from dialog boxes? Is the worse icon that i see on the system... very very ugly!

------------------

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by 3.1416:
the only one that isn't is the old Rage Pro, which isn't such a big deal since most of those users aren't doing heavy 3d anyway.

You got that damn right. Crappiest card on the face of the earth.

I think I maxed it out when I got 2 fps in Q3A.

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[xenon]

http://www.mosrarchives.com

[Ghoser777]

Originally posted by JB72:
I just got my student ADC mailing, but not FC .

Us lonely student members won't get one... but maybe my cool Premier member at work has gotten one! That'd be cool.

F-bacher

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by the_sisko:
Wow! That was quick! I was expecting Apple to work a few more days before declaring an FC. They must be happy enough with how the operating system runs to declare an FC nearly 3 weeks before shipping.

You confuse FC and GM. Final Candidate is the build just before Golden Master -- it's almost complete. Since they have 4K8x builds (4K80 anyway), I would think that they're going to go through a few candidates before they are pleased with the results and will pick one lucky build to be dubbed...

Mac OS X Golden Master. The only build that's ship-worthy.

I think they still have a few builds to go, but it's likely just stabilizing and bug fixing and stuff like that. Nothing very interesting. Maybe one of Steve's surprises.

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[Mr_Solar_Wind]

Found a review of 4k80:

http://www.mosrarchives.com/cgi-bin/...orum=4&topic=6

I think the reviewer has posted here in the past.

[rtamesis]

I feel the pendulum swinging back from gloom and doom over lack of DVD playback to excitement over the speed and stability of the core OS if this report is true.

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by rtamesis:
I feel the pendulum swinging back from gloom and doom over lack of DVD playback to excitement over the speed and stability of the core OS if this report is true.

You forgot to note the complete schizophrenia over the window resizing issue. Everyone has been complaining, but now this guy with FC1 and the other guy with 4K80 have both said that window resizing is silky, just like WinNT/2k.

The irritating thing is that there's no way of ensuring anything until the 24th! Absolutely no way.

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[rtamesis]

The only way really short of waiting for March 24 to arrive is to gather more reports from different people who've actually used these latest builds. Nevertheless, these two reports are a glimmer of hope that indeed the Final Release will have these problems fixed in time.

[hELLO wORLD]

the only one that isn't is the old Rage Pro, which isn't such a big deal since most of those users aren't doing heavy 3d anyway

I know this chipset is slow, but I have a bronze G3 with Rage Pro Lite...
OpenGL is sloooooooooow, even Apple screensavers like Aqua Icons (it uses OpenGL).

Drivers are needed, even for everyday usage : Aqua...

Originally posted by Mr_Solar_Wind:
Found a review of 4k80:

http://www.mosrarchives.com/cgi-bin/...orum=4&topic=6

Interesting post. I'm always skeptical about the first review of a new build because until I hear a number of other users backing up the opinions of the reviewer I can't really trust it. He makes some statements that would be great if true but it's also too good to be true if you ask me. I just hope more people post their views on these latest builds.

[Mac Guru]

You guys keep forgetting that Steve likes his "Oh wait! One more thing" slides...

Mac Guru

------------------
Even though Mac Users may be only 10% of the market, always remember that we are the TOP 10%"

[Mac Guru]

You guys keep forgetting that Steve likes his "Oh wait! One more thing" slides...

Mac Guru

------------------
Even though Mac Users may be only 10% of the market, always remember that we are the TOP 10%"

I doubt Steve will have any "major" surprises about OS X in store for us. Someone needs to hook up wincent at http://www.wincent.org with the FC build. He's the person I really want to review these latest builds.

[Bluebomber21XX]

Interesting post. I'm always skeptical about the first review of a new build because until I hear a number of other users backing up the opinions of the reviewer I can't really trust it. He makes some statements that would be great if true but it's also too good to be true if you ask me. I just hope more people post their views on these latest builds.

It's true. I help run a Mac emulation site ( http://mac.emuscene.com/ ; heh, shameless plug) and he used to work there. He's reliable.

------------------
------------------
For great justice!
http://cafepress.com/rockman/

[Mr_Solar_Wind]

I was right. The guy who did the 4k80 review has posted here on the forums before, under the same name: undotwa

Here are two thread-reviews of previous builds that he provided for 4k33 and 4k56. Why don't you guys who are 'knowledgable' with these build numbers check them out for accuracy? I'm still using the PB so I can't fact check his posts, but if he told the truth in these older reviews he's probably not lying now...

4k33 http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/002551.html
4k56 http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Forum3/HTML/002921.html

[gorgonzola]

He seems to be getting them from his office, which suggests that he's getting them legit. He doesn't seem to lie in those since I seem to recall that he was a good source of info and people agreed with what he said.

maybe i'm just grasping at straws

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[JB72]

Well that's the second report that says:

-no new features.
-fast window resizing
-fast app launch

I still think that if they held back sketch and HTML edit from later builds then something like message.app could make a surprise appearence. If not now then maybe later, with a further interation of iTools into OS X. I think I'm going to have to kill my hopes of an integrated Apple Palm app. Although now that I think of it, there could be some really interesting ways to integrate iTools with Palm, hmm, iTools app for the actual handheld device?



------------------
JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[kman42]

JB--good idea on the Palm iTools.

kman

[I'mDaMac]

I know this chipset is slow, but I have a bronze G3 with Rage Pro Lite...
OpenGL is sloooooooooow, even Apple screensavers like Aqua Icons (it uses OpenGL).

Drivers are needed, even for everyday usage : Aqua...

I agree. It is tiresome when people blindly make excuses for Apple. "Isn't a big deal" indeed. I happen to do very light 3D work with LightWave 3D on my WallStreet and every bit of OpenGL hardware acceleration helps, believe me.

[gorgonzola]

JB: I especially hope that Palm Desktop comes as a Cocoa app, because then there are some *very* cool things that could be done with Services. More Apple-Palm stuff would be great!

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[Mr_Solar_Wind]

I posted the link to the 4k80 review in the other FC1 thread earlier. Here's a response one MacNNer posted in response as to whether the review is true:

Originally posted by Bluebomber21XX:
Trust me, it is. I know him personally.

[JB72]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
JB: I especially hope that Palm Desktop comes as a Cocoa app, because then there are some *very* cool things that could be done with Services. More Apple-Palm stuff would be great!

Yeah this is one of my biggest hopes. Services could really integrate mail and messager (still hoping ) and address and palm. Now *that's* digital hub.

btw thanks Kman .

OT: This wait is getting agonizing.



------------------
JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[pmcd]

I used to be opposed to windowshades but I actually quite like it now. I realize it's a bit of a luxury but there's something immediate about windowshading that I have come to appreciate.

Philip

Originally posted by Oneota:

3. Windowshade / Spring-loaded folders. This has been beaten to death, so I won't say any more about it.

[happypork]

Originally posted by pmcd:
I used to be opposed to windowshades but I actually quite like it now. I realize it's a bit of a luxury but there's something immediate about windowshading that I have come to appreciate.

Agreed. If you want to see something behind the window you're currently using, it's quite convenient to windowshade.

In OS X, you could minimize the window, but then you have to move your cursor all the way down to the Dock to reopen the window. With windowshades, you don't have to move the cursor. Saves a bit of time.

[undotwa]

Hello there, I'm the web master of the Mac OS Resource Archives.

Daniel P. Canaris is the name.

I'm here to tell you that my review is legit, however very exaggerated. I thought the exaggeration was obvious, however you people took the review very literally.

However, you will expect no surprises at MacWorld 24th, but only a finished version of Mac OS X with a few features left out.

I tell you this because Mac OS X is feature frozen, they are trying to make it as good as possible without adding more features which will mean more work for Apple's fellow programmers.

I was, in quite a rush when I posted the Mac OS X news, so that should explain to you the misspelling and improper grammar used.

Oh, might I add I am Aussie like Wincent, however I live in Sydney... and he lives in Perth which are on the opposite side of the country!

I am very surprised on how much publicity my web site got from publishing this review of Mac OS X. Thanks a lot for visiting! Ask away here for more information on Mac OS X!

------------------
<A HREF="http://www.mosrarchive
s.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mosrarchive
s.com</A>

[JB72]

Originally posted by undotwa:
I'm here to tell you that my review is legit, however very exaggerated.

Exactly what was exagerated?




------------------
JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

Wow. Good to see you step up and take responsibility for your site (and thanks very much for the info!)

questions:

1) how fast is classic...really

2) how is the appletalk implementation? ie, must one connect over tcp/ip in order for it to work?

3) dock orientation...is it still possible?

4) can you login as root?

5) any new finder customization options?

6) how well do quicktime movies play?

7) (geez...so many questions, so little time!) what sort of graphics cards .kexts do you see?

8) what apps are included? (imessenger, sherlock 3 etc)

i'm sure folks will come up with more, but that's a good start. thanks again!

[ckohler]

Originally posted by undotwa:
I'm here to tell you that my review is legit, however very exaggerated. I thought the exaggeration was obvious, however you people took the review very literally.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but what good is a review if it's exaggerated? To qoute Joe Friday, "Please, just the facts maam."

I don't have the luxury of knowing what parts of your review were true and which were false. Please consider re-posting that review and keeping it realistic and maybe include some clear compairisons. I'm sure everyone here would truly apprecate it.

Thanks,

[MasonMcD]

And who's say what apps are going to be in there? Is there *any* reason to put in apps that don't directly relate to OS capabilities, like networking, or are just inconsequential, like chess?

Why would Apple put in apps?

Originally posted by undotwa:
Hello there, I'm the web master of the Mac OS Resource Archives.

Daniel P. Canaris is the name.

I'm here to tell you that my review is legit, however very exaggerated. I thought the exaggeration was obvious, however you people took the review very literally.

I am very surprised on how much publicity my web site got from publishing this review of Mac OS X. Thanks a lot for visiting! Ask away here for more information on Mac OS X!

I'm extremely disappointed to say the least. Are you a teenager or something? I also wish I could say I'm surprised but there are just too many people like you on the web to trust. That was a really lame thing for you to do.

[iPond317]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
You got that damn right. Crappiest card on the face of the earth.

I think I maxed it out when I got 2 fps in Q3A.

Umm, I have a Rev. B iMac and I got like 15 FPS in Q3A... how in the hell did you get only 2 FPS?!?! Besides, we still need the Rage Pro drivers for OS X!!!! If Apple can't even have the drivers ready for the cards/adapters built-in to previous models then I'm sorry to say they need to hold GM back until they can have the appropriate drivers! Okay, go ahead... flame all you want... but it's true!!! IF OS X DOES NOT HAVE ALL DRIVERS FOR DEVICES INSTALLED IN OLDER G3 MACS DO NOT SHIP IT!!!!

------------------
Think different.
--------------------
"I'm so afraid, the way I feel. Days when the rain and the sun are gone. Black as night. Agony's torn at my heart too long. So afraid, slip and I fall and I die..." - Lindsey Buckingham

Daniel P. Canaris is an idiot.

why even bother with a review like that??!?

[mitchell_pgh]

No No No, Apple doesn't need to have all of the drivers ready, as long as they are ready by the 24th (via software update). Remember it takes a few days just to produce the CD's! Just get the OS out in it's best form.

[DannyVTim]

I'm not concerned with the fps.
The card is okay. Everyone raved when it was first put in and now it chews.
Anyway, it would be rediculas for them to not have the drivers ready. But, ATI has always been poor with driver support which is why Apple has moved away from them.
It's clearly ATI's fault