[richardb]

...and isn't the box just awesome!

[Pismo400]

FINALLY!!!!!!! This is the only M$ product I like and I'm happy that it'll be out in November. This was the only thing that keeps me using classic. When I get Office X, GOODBYE OS 9!!! I saw the screenshots of Entourage and I love it. The interface for Office 2001 isn't that great but I'll put up with it until November. The only thing I don't like is the price. Good thing I can pay the $150 to get the upgrade but it's for a limited time so I hope they take pre-orders soon. Now if Adobe and Macromedia will get their butt's moving, I'll be a happy OS X camper

[richardb]

I wish they also move Outlook 2001 to X as this is one of the reasons why IT-managers exclude Macs.

I am playing around with Office X B5 and I can't help but feel that the interface in X is a bit cluttered. Too many colorful icons and stuff. Hope they clean it up in the final release.

[Brazuca]

Originally posted by richardb:
<STRONG>

I am playing around with Office X B5 and I can't help but feel that the interface in X is a bit cluttered. Too many colorful icons and stuff. Hope they clean it up in the final release.</STRONG>

Looking at the screenshots I have to agree with you. Too much color and clutter just looks incredibly distracting. That may be okay with Entourage, but in Excel and Word that is just too much.

Does anyone think that the release date may have been pushed back to give WindowsXP an advantage over OSX? Just a small log on the fire....

[BRussell]

Originally posted by richardb:
<STRONG>I wish they also move Outlook 2001 to X as this is one of the reasons why IT-managers exclude Macs.</STRONG>

No doubt. I just can't get Outlook to run in Classic mode in X.

There were rumors that Entourage X would be a full Exchange client, but from the press releases, that doesn't seem to be the case.

[mpmchugh]

Originally posted by BRussell:
<STRONG>No doubt. I just can't get Outlook to run in Classic mode in X.

There were rumors that Entourage X would be a full Exchange client, but from the press releases, that doesn't seem to be the case.</STRONG>

According to the MS Entourage for X page:

"In addition, the IMAP4 standard enables connection to Microsoft Exchange Server and Mac.com."

I'm hoping this Exchange support extends to calendaring as well as email, making Outlook for the Mac obsolete.

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product...entouragex.asp

[Sinemacula]

Originally posted by Brazuca:
<STRONG>

Does anyone think that the release date may have been pushed back to give WindowsXP an advantage over OSX? Just a small log on the fire....</STRONG>

I expect that could well be the case... I must admit, I was rather surprised when I heard November -- as my understanding was that Office X b5 was already pretty darn close, and I think it's been around for a while now. I was hoping (perhaps foolishly) for an early October release. Oh well, I suppose I can wait a little while longer.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by mpmchugh:
<STRONG>

According to the MS Entourage for X page:

"In addition, the IMAP4 standard enables connection to Microsoft Exchange Server and Mac.com."

I'm hoping this Exchange support extends to calendaring as well as email, making Outlook for the Mac obsolete.

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product...entouragex.asp</STRONG>

I believe that's just referring to the fact that you can read your email with imap, but you can't send email through the Exchange server. That's always been a capability of Oultlook Express, mail.app, Entourage, etc. But, maybe you're right, and it will be a full client.

By the way, it also says that Outlook-compatible calendaring is possible with Entourage.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Pismo400:
<STRONG>The interface for Office 2001 isn't that great but I'll put up with it until November.</STRONG>

Bad news then. The interface for Office v. X isn't any different, just colourful.

[Pismo400]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>

Bad news then. The interface for Office v. X isn't any different, just colourful.</STRONG>

Well, I think it would be more approachable for inexperienced users. I would also like to see if the menus and taskbars are FULLY customizable. For instance: In Entourage, I don't want to have the Microsoft News Server and the Custom Views folders. I hope there is an option to remove the "junk" so we can have what we need in order to be productive. I only use Word and Entourage so I could care less with the other programs. Just as long as I never have to use OS 9 again, I'll be all set.

[escher]

Originally posted by Sinemacula:
<STRONG>I was hoping (perhaps foolishly) for an early October release.</STRONG>

Same here. When Microsoft said at MWNY in July that Office 10 would require Mac OS X 10.1 and ship "in the fall", I assumed that Office 10 would ship immediately after OS 10.1.

I use Word so much that Word in Classic is not acceptable. Thus I've been sticking with OS 9 for most of my time. Now I'll have to wait a month and a half longer to make OS X my primary OS.

At least we now have a detailed ship month for Office 10. Better than nothing from MS.

Escher

[PowerBookDude]

I can't wait for Mac OS X 10.1 and Office v. X! Awesome combo!

I was really hoping for an October release for Office v. X but November is better then December!

Time for a 3 PM lunch!

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Pismo400:
<STRONG>

Well, I think it would be more approachable for inexperienced users. I would also like to see if the menus and taskbars are FULLY customizable.</STRONG>

I used the Beta 5 version and it did not have any more customizing options then the OS9 version did.

The Entourage toolbar is still cluttered.

Other then the Aqua look, very little is new or exciting.

[PMG4DP]

I was considering buying it until I saw the price tag, 500 bucks for the full suite is a rip off. and I really only need word. 300 bucks for word is a rip off also. Cool box though.[/LIST]

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>
Other then the Aqua look, very little is new or exciting.</STRONG>

It will run native in X, that is enough for most people. and when was the last time that they did add anything new or exciting? oh...a autosave feature for when the system (or should I just say crappy coded app?) crashes! Or for when my backup power suppy fails during the once a year blackout. or integrating MSN Messanger...yawn...

[richardb]

I'm hoping this Exchange support extends to calendaring as well as email, making Outlook for the Mac obsolete.

In B5 there is no new support for Exchange server. My bet is that Outlook X arrives sometime in the spring.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by PMG4DP:
<STRONG>I was considering buying it until I saw the price tag, 500 bucks for the full suite is a rip off. and I really only need word. 300 bucks for word is a rip off also. Cool box though.[/LIST]</STRONG>

The very reason why I will never pay for Office. It's too damn expensive and they know it. They know that people have to have it at any cost. So they hike up the price.

I remember reading somewhere that they sold more copies of Office then windows, which is even cheaper. Full should be the current upgrade price (maybe 200 or so), and the upgrade should be 50-100.

no wonder 40% of their review comes form this single product...

[Pismo400]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
<STRONG>

I used the Beta 5 version and it did not have any more customizing options then the OS9 version did.

The Entourage toolbar is still cluttered.

Other then the Aqua look, very little is new or exciting.</STRONG>

DARN IT ALL TO HECK!!!

[richardb]

Other then the Aqua look, very little is new or exciting.

There's no anti-aliasing in these carbonized versions of Explorer and Office. It's not enough just to give menues and certain components (as the new transparent layers in Excel) the Aqua look. Is it the QuickDraw of OS9 (or whatever) that's hard to escape when carbonizing?

Now OmniWeb is a true Aqua app the way it beautyfies web pages by anti-aliasing fonts!

[Spheric Harlot]

from here: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200...html?tag=tp_pr

Another important change is the ability to share calendar information with Outlook users. Microsoft, in fact, has separate Outlook versions for the Mac and Windows, both of which connect to Exchange server. But Entourage does not use Exchange, making sharing information with Outlook users difficult.

"It works using iCal, a standard which not only Entourage supports but Outlook as well," Connolly said. "In fact, any e-mail or PIM (personal information manager) that supports iCal can interoperate as well."

FWIW.

[kovacs]

I was considering buying it until I saw the price tag, 500 bucks for the full suite is a rip off. and I really only need word. 300 bucks for word is a rip off also. Cool box though.

Maybe that's why 1/3 of all office users use a pirated version....
and if we all would pay like a good citizen the price would be much lower ... yeah right

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: kovacs ]

[malvolio]

No product activation and no Smart Tags. Maybe this will enclourage some Windoze users to switch to OS X.
And maybe, just maybe, the pushing back of the release date is because the MBU wants to have plenty of bug-squashing time to work on Office with the release version of 10.1.

[Brit Ben]

Originally posted by malvolio:
<STRONG>No product activation and no Smart Tags. Maybe this will enclourage some Windoze users to switch to OS X.
And maybe, just maybe, the pushing back of the release date is because the MBU wants to have plenty of bug-squashing time to work on Office with the release version of 10.1.</STRONG>

Having used office b5 for a bit, on 10.0.4, I am honestly impressed with the good work done by MS. Then and again, I don't use Entourage, and Exchange server etc. Eudora rocks for email, and I never use the company calendaring app (meeting maker) anyway.

It should be much faster on 10.1 and I'm going to happily shell out the $150.

Ben.

[gorgonzola]

I liked Entourage 2001, but I can't stand Entourage 10. It's slow, I despise the new organization, and it doesn't work as well. I concede that I'm opining based on a beta build (and an early one at that -- the most widely distributed beta was beta 5, and they're up to around beta 10 now), but while it may get faster, it's still an interface and operation I don't like anymore. It's just too busy, there's too much stuff going on.

The other three apps in Office X, on the other hand, are *very* good, and they run *very* well in 10.0.4 as well as 10.1 (5G59, which is so close to Golden Master that the differences are negligible).

I should say, though, that as of beta 5, it was obvious that Entourage had had the least amount of work done on it. The other three apps had beautiful new 128x128 document icons, but Entourage still had the old icons. While the icons are hardly indicative of the amount of work done on it, they do show a certain level of polish, and given that it's by far the worst app in the Office X suite, I think it's safe to say that it will be much improved performance-wise by November.

I still despise the new interface, though. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole...

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
<STRONG>I still despise the new interface, though. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole...</STRONG>

If you check the "display small navigation buttons" option in the general preferences the interface for Entourage is pretty close to 2001. It's still a lot slower drawing the interface though, but that's to be expected.

The b5 version uses CG font rendering for lists, but not messages. It's obviously a beta version, but still crushes Mail.app in just about any way conceivable. Then again, I think MSIE in it's 10.1 incarnation is the best web browser too.

[juanvaldes]

where did this come from? ....oh well...

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: juanvaldes ]

[dtc]

Entourage works with internet standards like IMAP and POP. I tried Eudora for X and I can't believe people let them get away with having a System 6-esqe UI in MacOS X. eek. You oughta give entourage a whirl. I migrated from PowerMail to Entourage.

Originally posted by Brit Ben:
<STRONG>

Having used office b5 for a bit, on 10.0.4, I am honestly impressed with the good work done by MS. Then and again, I don't use Entourage, and Exchange server etc. Eudora rocks for email, and I never use the company calendaring app (meeting maker) anyway.

It should be much faster on 10.1 and I'm going to happily shell out the $150.

Ben.</STRONG>

[dtc]

Um, you can delete the MIcrosoft News Server in entourage. I replaced mine with the Pacbell one. Just go to Tools-&gt;Accounts-&gt;News tab.

Originally posted by Pismo400:
<STRONG>

Well, I think it would be more approachable for inexperienced users. I would also like to see if the menus and taskbars are FULLY customizable. For instance: In Entourage, I don't want to have the Microsoft News Server and the Custom Views folders. .</STRONG>

[dtc]

I work in an office that's mixed environment. You -can- send email through an exchange server if the server has SMTP enabled. That's what Ido.

Originally posted by BRussell:
<STRONG>
I believe that's just referring to the fact that you can read your email with imap, but you can't send email through the Exchange server. That's always been a capability of Oultlook Express, mail.app, Entourage, etc. But, maybe you're right, and it will be a full client.

By the way, it also says that Outlook-compatible calendaring is possible with Entourage.</STRONG>

Wow! Just noticed the similarity of designs in the logos - "Little blobs combining to make a bigger blob."

So Microsoft is becoming a mining company now...?

Is there no end to the company's quest for world domination?!

[Synotic]

I'd like to note that auto recover has saved my ass alot of times on OS 9... like if I am writing a message in Entourage or something in word and crash it pops up with my stuff...

Oh, I installed b5 or something of Office X but I didn't really explore much... is it still doing that crap where if you have word/excel/powerpoint open and try and switch to a different user in Entourage it says "Please quit all other Microsoft products first". I mean what kind of integration is this? If word or whatever interacts with a specific user on entourage differently can't entourage send a message to word that something is changing?...

[SJ]

Beta5...... HHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!!!!

Umm. Just to let you all know that b5 was released ages ago. They are well and truly past that now. Oh... and the reason you havn't seen any later builds is because all the testers have individual serial numbers

They sure as hell ain't going to give THOSE out!

[rjpcmc]

Does anybody know if Entourage will be able to read mail from a hotmail account, e.g. [email protected] ?

[fulmer]

Originally posted by rjpcmc:
<STRONG>Does anybody know if Entourage will be able to read mail from a hotmail account, e.g. [email protected] ?</STRONG>

it does that now under 9.x and 10b5. I'm sure it'll be available when the release version hits the shelves.

What about farking Palm support?!?

Originally posted by &lt;Count Olaf&gt;:
<STRONG>What about farking Palm support?!?</STRONG>

I am sure Microsoft will release a Entourage X conduit once Palm/Handspring releases a app that allows synching.

How can Microsoft be expected to release a conduit for a handheld that can't even by synched with Mac OS X?

How about you get on Palm about not having native synching avialable with OS X before harping on Microsoft.

[dtc]

Palm didn't even have a booth at MacWorld NY

Originally posted by &lt;Just some guy&gt;:
<STRONG>

I am sure Microsoft will release a Entourage X conduit once Palm/Handspring releases a app that allows synching.

How can Microsoft be expected to release a conduit for a handheld that can't even by synched with Mac OS X?

How about you get on Palm about not having native synching avialable with OS X before harping on Microsoft.</STRONG>

Originally posted by dtc:
<STRONG>I work in an office that's mixed environment. You -can- send email through an exchange server if the server has SMTP enabled. That's what Ido.</STRONG>

I suspect that there's some way to do it, but it stopped working for me several months ago, and my IT people said they disabled that capability for security reasons. They swear to me I have to use Outlook, and turn up their noses when I say I use a Mac - like "you're outta luck, buddy." But I bet I could do it if I could just figure out how.

[dtc]

If you know the name of the exchange server you're on, you can try entering that as the SMTP server. Be sure to enable authentication though (its in the Click here for more options thingy).

Bummer.

Originally posted by &lt;BRussellTooLazyToLogin&gt;:
<STRONG>I suspect that there's some way to do it, but it stopped working for me several months ago, and my IT people said they disabled that capability for security reasons. They swear to me I have to use Outlook, and turn up their noses when I say I use a Mac - like "you're outta luck, buddy." But I bet I could do it if I could just figure out how.</STRONG>

[vas]

I agree that it will be great once Office X is released in November. However, according to the customer relations guys at ISI Researchsoft, the makers of EndNote, they haven't been given the necessary information by Microsoft to make the appropriate plugin for EndNote to work properly with Word X.

As a scientist, I rely heavily on EndNote and Word working together to manage my citations. The Classic version of EndNote will not be compatible with Word X, which means that until Microsoft provides ISI with what they need, some of us will STILL be forced to use Word 2001. That SUCKS.

vas

[BRussell]

Originally posted by dtc:
<STRONG>If you know the name of the exchange server you're on, you can try entering that as the SMTP server. Be sure to enable authentication though (its in the Click here for more options thingy).</STRONG>

Oh my god! It worked! Now I can tell my IT people that they are idiots (I'm always looking for such opportunities, and, actually, they're not that hard to find).

Thanks mucho! I believe this is the first time I've ever actually been helped on the MacNN forums!

By the way, dtc, if I had known you worked in the Mac Business Unit, I would have asked you sooner. You people rule.

[Brit Ben]

Originally posted by dtc:
<STRONG>Palm didn't even have a booth at MacWorld NY

</STRONG>

Yep, and they're up to tricks.
I don't think we'll see HotSync for OS X.

Much more likely to see something more "next-gen" from them after November, when they finish packing PalmOS 4 for the general masses...

However, Apple could take this opportunity, and bring out their own sync application like Sun did with PDAsync for Solaris.

Ben.

PS. I use office for most of the day at work. I'm using office b5 because I find it better than using Classic, even though I know nearly every bug that crashes Excel (taught myself to hit save, just before I use one of these *features* ) If there was a decent way to join external betas then The Mac BU would be getting a lot of feedback....
My $0.02 in case anyone from there reads this.

[Workers Comp Wampa]

Originally posted by Brit Ben:
<STRONG>
I don't think we'll see HotSync for OS X.
</STRONG>

"And if you�ve already invested a considerable amount of time and energy laboriously entering contact information � names, phone numbers, email addresses and so on � into a personal information manager (PIM), you won�t have to discard these assets and start over from scratch. Entourage has an assistant that lets you import your personal information from other PIMs � directly, in most cases. No need to re-enter your contacts."
http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

Same here, I need Endnote for scientific publications. Word is totally useless to me without Endnote.

Think there is any chance that a free OS X upgrade of Endnote will be released?

Originally posted by &lt;Just some guy&gt;:
<STRONG>How about you get on Palm about not having native synching avialable with OS X before harping on Microsoft.</STRONG>

I have got on at Palm. If you think back Steve Jobs showed an early version of Palm Desktop running under OS X way back in January. At the very least Microsoft should have mentioned that Entourage X will sync with Palm devices once Palm gets its finger out its ass. Cakesniffer.

Originally posted by Workers Comp Wampa:
<STRONG>

"And if you�ve already invested a considerable amount of time and energy laboriously entering contact information � names, phone numbers, email addresses and so on � into a personal information manager (PIM), you won�t have to discard these assets and start over from scratch. Entourage has an assistant that lets you import your personal information from other PIMs � directly, in most cases. No need to re-enter your contacts."
http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/</STRONG>

This has nothing to do with Hotsync. All this means is that Entourage X can import information from Palm Desktop or Up-To-Date or whichever PIM software you are using. It says nothing about Hotsyncing with a Palm. Cakesniffer.

[zacharie]

I stick to AppleWorks 6.2. It's largely enough and you can do the same things as in office with it. Besides, I don't want any microsoft files. I want to keep control.


[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: zacharie ]

[tobster]

Hi all...

I used b5 for a while this summer but just recently got build 1117 into my hands. B5 was quite buggy and as one said before, Entourage had had the least amount of work done on it. Word, Excel and PPT were okay but crashed a lot though. As of OS X 10.1 build 5g15 the office b5 just became to buggy and i stopped using it.

b1117 is quite good though - excluding Entourage. Word, Excel and PPT have now helped me switch over somewhat totally and now I only wait for Entourage. Entourage has a lot of bugs in it, one of which is a very annoying -8713 error when replying, sending or saving messages! Not being able to send in a mail program must be considered bad!

But it promises a whole lot, we'll have to see if it delivers.

Later all. ...

tobs

[dtc]

That's why they're called betas

Originally posted by tobster:
<STRONG>As of OS X 10.1 build 5g15 the office b5 just became to buggy and i stopped using it.
</STRONG>