[carlleigh]

So I have a beta of Vista Beta 2. Anyones thoughts on install it instead of XP?

[ghporter]

It should work, and probably quite well on your MBP. Elsewhere (I think in this forum) Eug Wanker has posted information that shows the MBP is extremely capable of handling Vista. But remember that Vista is enough of a resource hog that it makes XP look lightweight! You might want to double up on the RAM because of this.

[craigb6]

He should double his RAM? Vista only need 512MB RAM to 'run', and he has double that so he would be able to get decent performance. Then again you can never have too much RAM.

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

Originally Posted by craigb6

He should double his RAM? Vista only need 512MB RAM to 'run', and he has double that so he would be able to get decent performance. Then again you can never have too much RAM.

Bah, tripple up the RAM..... if he plans on doing anything useful on Vista, like multitasking while running games and burning discs and downloading torrents (eeek!) or whatever..... at the same time, he'll need that extra 'breathing room'. (forgive me since i'm not sure what's the max. RAM the MBP could handle)

Otherwise, he'd have to 'single-task' and run everything on 'lean'. No special vfx, no multi-tasking, none of the good stuff.

[ghporter]

Yeah. You can supposedly run XP on 128MB. Try it some time, but plan for a long, long time to play with it. Further, since the video RAM on the MBP is shared with system RAM, having more will make the video more responsive too.

[jsousa]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Yeah. You can supposedly run XP on 128MB. Try it some time, but plan for a long, long time to play with it. Further, since the video RAM on the MBP is shared with system RAM, having more will make the video more responsive too.

Well is their a way to choose how much ram is allocated to the video? Cause I would like to give that little X1600 a mild OC and a 1/4 gig of ram.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Although I am sure Vista would run just fine in the end the real question is will it run with bootcamp. I heard it wasn't so easy with the earlier betas.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Further, since the video RAM on the MBP is shared with system RAM, having more will make the video more responsive too.

Incorrect. The MacBook Pro and iMac have dedicated VRAM, while the Mac Mini and MacBook (all Intel) steal from system memory. Adding RAM will improve your overall Vista experience, but will not affect your MBP's video performance.

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

I'd rather just wait until the new MacPro's come out, and then wait 'till Vista's been in the public's hands for about 2-3 months.... you know... so hopefully there'd be little running around, looking for drivers, updates for software, and the sort on my part.

Also, have any of you........those of you who are running XP on BootCamp ever used the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor from Microsoft's website? What kind of results does it yield for you? (iMac users? Mini users? MacBook users? MBP users?)

[Mediaman_12]

Originally Posted by ©öñFü$íóÑ

Also, have any of you........those of you who are running XP on BootCamp ever used the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor from Microsoft's website? What kind of results does it yield for you? (iMac users? Mini users? MacBook users? MBP users?)

Ran it on my iMac, all it winged about was the disk size. I have added 1GB of RAM so there was no problem there.

Hope Apple fixes the disk format 'problem' if this is going to be incorporated in to the next OS release. Not being able to access the OSX disk from within Windows is a PTA, and having to use FAT32 On the Windows side to see the Windows disk from OSX is the same.

[rickey939]

At this rate, we'll probably have 3 more revisions of the MacBook Pro before Vista is released, so a lot can happen between now and then.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst

Incorrect. The MacBook Pro and iMac have dedicated VRAM, while the Mac Mini and MacBook (all Intel) steal from system memory. Adding RAM will improve your overall Vista experience, but will not affect your MBP's video performance.

My mistake-SORRY! I read the wrong specs (the MacBook's, not the Pro's). Sorry again.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by ©öñFü$íóÑ

Also, have any of you........those of you who are running XP on BootCamp ever used the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor from Microsoft's website? What kind of results does it yield for you? (iMac users? Mini users? MacBook users? MBP users?)

The dual Mini passes 100%. The silly fancy interface and everything is supported even thought the Mini doesn't have a real video card.

So if the mini passes 100% than so will every other intel Mac.

[Eug Wanker]

So who's installed Vista on their MacBook/MBP? There are Intel GPU drivers, but what about everything else?

The Vista beta was publicly released yesterday.

How to do it if you already have XP installed? Rerun Boot Camp?

[harrisjamieh]

I was/am debating weather to install vista... I downloaded the beta today. If I did, I would do it on my MacBook, as my iMac has so much stuff on it.

The reason I am holding back is that I really cant be bothered to re-install OSX once I am finished with Vista (coz installing vista messes up the functionality of the boot camp app to get rid of the windows partition) - I am lazy like that (well, I have just got my MB set up how I like it....)


I might find an old PC knocking around that i'll give it a wirl on, and if I like it, I might shove it on one of my Intel Macs... we'll see..

[Eug Wanker]

coz installing vista messes up the functionality of the boot camp app to get rid of the windows partition

What do you mean?

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

So who's installed Vista on their MacBook/MBP? There are Intel GPU drivers, but what about everything else?

The Vista beta was publicly released yesterday.

How to do it if you already have XP installed? Rerun Boot Camp?

Just got Vista installed on my MacBook. Sound, BT, Wireless does not work out of the box. Got the Video installed using the BootCamp drivers EXE file. Nothing else from the drivers disk worked. I'm going to install the drivers manually by removing them from the exe file. Hopefully I can get the sound and wireless working. I can still boot into OS X with no issues.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

What do you mean?

Installing Vista requires deleting an extra EFI partition that XP needs to run. After you delete that partition, OS X will continue to work as normal but you will not be able to revert to one partion with just OS X.

[harrisjamieh]

Originally Posted by aristotles

Installing Vista requires deleting an extra EFI partition that XP needs to run. After you delete that partition, OS X will continue to work as normal but you will not be able to revert to one partion with just OS X.

... with the boot camp app - obviously it can be done be doing a format of the drive and starting over

[harrisjamieh]

OK. installing now...

[harrisjamieh]

OK people, I installed, and all seems to be well, except video drivers - can't get them right yet, im running at 12808 x 800, but no aero. Also, sound does not work, nor bluetooth, backlight, eject key etc, but wireless works, which is cool.

Anyway, I took pictures and documented my experience installing the OS, and made this quick website. I just wanted somewhere quick and easy (and free) to host, so please accept my apologies for the ads and the crappy URL, but hey, its better than nothing. I've included pictures and the like, so take a look if you are at all interested:

http://vistaonmac.greatnow.com/

Edit: Oh, and for some reason, the Performance Rating thingy in vista gives my MacBook a score or 1/5 - which makes no sense as proc gets 4.7, RAM gets 3.9, disc gets 3.6 (only a 15 gb partition), graphics 2.0, gaming graphics 1.0.

Oh well.

[Eug Wanker]

^^^ Hmmm...

1) The install process for Vista is remarkably ugly.
2) Are you sure it's the "Intel Lakeport" driver for GMA 950? It doesn't say that on the Intel Vista pages. It just says something about Vista WDDM drivers for Intel 945G/GM.
3) Can you do anything? Does any of your XP software install?

BTW, what's with all the popups and ads on that site? Is it a free hosting service or something?

[harrisjamieh]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

^^^ Hmmm...

1) The install process for Vista is remarkably ugly.
2) Are you sure it's the "Intel Lakeport" driver for GMA 950? It doesn't say that on the Intel Vista pages. It just says something about Vista WDDM drivers for Intel 945G/GM.
3) Can you do anything? Does any of your XP software install?

BTW, what's with all the popups and ads on that site? Is it a free hosting service or something?

Originally Posted by Me

so please accept my apologies for the ads and the crappy URL

So ye, its crappy free hosting - I would have shoved it on my iMac as a server, but I didn't want my bandwidth used.

1) I agree

2) Some guy over at Apple support forums says he has got aero working on his MB using the lakeport drivers:

Originally Posted by Guy at support forums

You have to manually find driver, and then chose from the list Intel as manufacturer, and as the driver Intel Lakeport Drivers.

Heres a link to the thread:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....04058&tstart=0

3) I am still working on the driver situation, so I will try some apps later today.

[Eug Wanker]

OK. Oops, I missed the comment about the free hosting in the original post.

Thanks for the link. At least we now have confirmation that Aero Glass does work on the MB, as expected. Too bad it is not always a easy process to get it working.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

I'm going to wait until Bootcamp or parallels officially support it.

[harrisjamieh]

Well Publisher 2003 runs fine under vista...

[Stratus Fear]

Originally Posted by aristotles

Installing Vista requires deleting an extra EFI partition that XP needs to run. After you delete that partition, OS X will continue to work as normal but you will not be able to revert to one partion with just OS X.

All you need to do to get around this doesn't even include reformatting the entire drive. All you need to do is boot the OS X DVD and use the gpt terminal app to re-add the 200MB EFI partition at the beginning of the disk.

[harrisjamieh]

Yay, I got aero working! Rather cool actually...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Yay, I got aero working! Rather cool actually...

How did you do it?

Originally Posted by Stratus Fear

All you need to do to get around this doesn't even include reformatting the entire drive. All you need to do is boot the OS X DVD and use the gpt terminal app to re-add the 200MB EFI partition at the beginning of the disk.

Please elaborate. What is the exact command? The man file doesn't help me much:

NAME
gpt -- GUID partition table maintenance utility

SYNOPSIS
gpt [general_options] command [command_options] device ...

DESCRIPTION
The gpt utility provides the necessary functionality to manipulate GUID
partition tables (GPTs), but see BUGS below for how and where functional-
ity is missing. The basic usage model of the gpt tool follows that of
the cvs(1) tool. The general options are described in the following
paragraph. The remaining paragraphs describe the individual commands
with their options. Here we conclude by mentioning that a device is
either a special file corresponding to a disk-like device or a regular
file. The command is applied to each device listed on the command line.

Will adding this partition back screw up anything in OS X or Vista?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Edit: Oh, and for some reason, the Performance Rating thingy in vista gives my MacBook a score or 1/5 - which makes no sense as proc gets 4.7, RAM gets 3.9, disc gets 3.6 (only a 15 gb partition), graphics 2.0, gaming graphics 1.0.

Oh well.

That's correct. The system score is the lowest score of any of the components, to represent the weakest link in the chain.

[harrisjamieh]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

How did you do it?

You know what, just like many a thing I have done in Windows over the years... I really am not sure how I did it. All I kept trying was installing and uninstalling the Lakeport drivers, which didn't seem to work, then IIRC, I re-routed the driver for the working one to the Lakefield one in device manager, and it worked!

I bet ya I wouldn't be able to do it again though if I had to...

[snoopy199]

I got vista installing on my mini as we speak. The hardest part was downloading it. Everythime I tried to grab it, their servers were too busy. I had to keep creating new hotmail accounts because they only let you download (or attempt) so many times. #$%& microsoft, they didn't even figure out that some d/l would fail or not start and you would need to try again.

Anyways my mini as 2gig of ram so it should be better performing then my mb.

[snoopy199]

I finished installing vista (on my mini) and I have to say its fugly.

Where the heck is the menu bar. I have no idea how to book mark links. The file explorer is missing the menu bar too.

Overall the icons look nice aero seems ok. I like how the widgets are visable w/o need to click on the dashboard icon.

Bottom line, I'm unimpressed. Seems harder to use.

[harrisjamieh]

It is definatly harder to use. Somehow, they managed to make it less intuitive than XP - eg you have to go through like 5 things to get to display settings, and if you are in, say control panel, theres no quick and easy way to skip to 'my computer' without opening another window - very frustrating.

And windows sidebar - now thats just pathetic, the gadgets have no elegance to them, truely awful.

The only half decent thing is aero, which, IMO, is still not as pretty as Tiger, let alone what Leopard will bring.

But at least, in some ways, Windows is getting better. Hell, by 2020, we might, just might, have a version of Windows that is half comparable to Mac OS X (though by that time, we will be in Mac OS XII, or whatever)

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

I finished installing vista (on my mini) and I have to say its fugly.

Where the heck is the menu bar. I have no idea how to book mark links. The file explorer is missing the menu bar too.

Overall the icons look nice aero seems ok. I like how the widgets are visable w/o need to click on the dashboard icon.

Bottom line, I'm unimpressed. Seems harder to use.

Any idiot.....errr.... anyone can make a GUI look great... but it takes a whole lot more to make it useable by -everyone-. As the above quote indicates, Vista appears to be unintuitive for some. (i've yet to download the beta......much less be able to run it).....

I've always liked black themes matching icons/wallpapers..... that's just about the only thing i like about Windows's Aero theme. The glass theme's just -okay-.... not spectacular..... but just "okay"..... aiight? Okay?

[jamil5454]

Downloading for my Athlon64 PC...

I wish they made Vista for PPC! My iBook is getting jealous of these Intel Macs.

[snoopy199]

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Downloading for my Athlon64 PC...

I wish they made Vista for PPC! My iBook is getting jealous of these Intel Macs.

Err I'm glad they don't. The security of Vista wonky, I was prompted about running a program (from the control panel) and I was prompted to install a program. Not like how OSX prompts you but more intrusive and it seems redundant to keep asking.

I'm not sold on having no file menu bar, I found how to get it on the file explorer, but not so for internet explorer. Makes no sense.

[Star-Fire]

Well I do have to say vista runs pretty good on my Macbook, typing this from there now. It's different in one way but still the same ol' windows in another.

BTW there is a option to turn on classic view on most windows to get the "File edit view" toolbar back at the top, also for IE too.

It is much slower to boot then OS X, maybe becasue it's beta, aero is nice, but nothing amazing, even though I do think OS X could use a little revamping on GUI, we've pretty much had the same general look since beta, sure lines have changes, things got smoother and metal has come and gone, I just mean something different. I do have to admit this is the first version of windows I've used in a while that just seems different then the eariler version.

Watch out though it EATS battery, I hope they improve that much of it. Would like a few more driver (Eject button working, 2 finger scoll , etc.) but video, wireless and sound all work. Sleep in windows even works with the sleep light

[harrisjamieh]

Yeh, battery life is actually appauling!! Less than 1/4 of what I get in OS X. I was using Vista (full charge to start), after 10 minutes, I was down to 80% battery - thats crap!

Also, Vista is much slower running that XP on my MacBook. With OS X, the speed of the new OS's (10.3 to 10.4, 10.4 to 10.5 (?)) increases on most hardware, whereas with Windows, the opposite is true - the newer the OS, the slower the operation.

[Star-Fire]

It's a little slow on mine, but I imagine that will be better once released, I noticed part of it is the typical windows thing. The desktop maybe loaded but there is still stuff going on in the background to eat the CPU and resources for a min or 2 slowing everything down. OS X on the other hand is pretty much full speed when the desktop loads, maybe like 15 secs of "screwing" around.

Eh I 'll just throw it on my Athlon64 3500, gotta have something to play games on Although the iMac does kick on HL2 and EVE Online.

[Eug Wanker]

OK... On my MacBook:

Aero Glass is working fine with the GMA 950 using the Lakeport drivers, and running the Vista performance app to turn Aero on. The effects are OK, and some are even nice, but Flip 3D is stupid.
Wireless LAN is working great.
Sound was working sort of with the Sigmatel drivers, but everything was muffled or staticky so I uninstalled those drivers.
I'm not sure I really like this new Internet Explorer 7+. The pseudo resolution independence is interesting though. Pix are enlarged with text.
When I wake from sleep, the machine is hung. I can move the mouse, but nothing responds.

[harrisjamieh]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

OK... On my MacBook:


Sound was working sort of with the Sigmatel drivers, but everything was muffled or staticky so I uninstalled those drivers.

Thats because, at least on my MB w/Sigmatel drivers, only the 3rd speaker, under the keyboard, was working

[Eug Wanker]

Yeah, I hope there is some solution to the sound issue. That crackley muffled sound was extremely annoying. This page says to use the Intel chipset drivers, not the dedicated audio drivers.

Also, I wonder if Dell drivers could work. Or perhaps the audio drivers off the MacBook XP driver disc? There is this comment:

I got the sound and the eject button to work well on Vista by using the Bootcamp driver cd. We all know that running the cd as-is fails.

But you can extract the contents of the InstallShield by using AppleBootcamp.exe /V /a on any XP machine. This will run through setup and instead of an install. It also doesn't do the checks to make sure if you have the right hardware. After that you can pretty much pick and choose your drivers...Brightness, Eject and sound.

A couple weird things with sound...installing using the EXE seems to work better than letting windows do the auto install. Also there are some issues with headphone pass through so if you want to disable the internal speaker you need to set a reg key. here are instructions: http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1239

I wish there was one defacto destination for all of this macbook+vista stuff. It is a perfect piece of hardware for vista (perfect graphics chipset for glass - 950, DVD burner, fast ram, bluetooth, webcam (soon), IR for media center (soon)). Microsoft would kill for a hardware vendor that gets the Design aspect of hardware as good as apple did while still getting hardware optimized for vista.

P.S. The install process for Vista really does suck. I don't know how many times I had to restart.

[Star-Fire]

I beleive I am using the intel drivers for sound and everything is fine.

[Eug Wanker]

Now I get no sound, regardless of whether the Intel Sigmatel drivers are installed or not.

Is there any way of installing the Boot Camp XP sound drivers?