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Nathan Adams · Jul 8, 2002, 01:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lookmark:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nathan Adams:
[QB]1. That startup screen would NOT have been designed by Ives (Ive's is an industrial designer, he has nothing to do with os x's gui design)

2. It most definately is not Japanesey. As a graphic designer who has both studied Japanese design and experienced it first hand - it most certainly is not japanese-like at all.<hr /></blockquote>1. Right.

2. I don't mean to box all Japanese design into a single style -- there's an amazing range out there -- but it's hard to look at mainstream Japanese design (especially product design) and not notice the tendency toward the simple, minimal, and cute. Sometimes almost to a curious extreme.

You only need to stroll though a Japanese grocery store to notice this, but here are some popular samples.

Floppy panda
<img src="http://www.metropolis.co.jp/biginjapanarchive349/326/pics/tarepanda.jpg" alt=" - " />
Hello kitty
<img src="http://www.sanrio.co.jp/english/characters/w_chara/kt180.gif" alt=" - " />
Tamagotchi
<img src="http://members.hknet.com/~ada/tamagotchi/tamagame/anime1.gif" alt=" - " />

(Japanese artist Takashi Murakami plays with these tendencies too, though in a much darker way.)

And <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.12/cute.html" target="_blank">here's</a> an article from Wired on the subject.

If you'd care to explain why the new boot panel isn't influenced by Japanese design, please do.<hr /></blockquote>Cartoons and comics do not equal design
And for all intrinsic purposes, the influence that has had on 'japanese design' has a) been more global than isolated to japan, and b) reserved mainly for pop culture alone - and such should be disregarded when discussing proper 'Japanese Design'

Traditional Japanese Design is mostly tied with architecture and 'product design'. Strong features include emphasis on horizontal and vertical lines, as well as natural forms, a zen like minimilism (but never for the sake of simplicity)(this also reflects the religious like approach taken to design), Compactness/Personal Space, User Interaction, and the desire for control over the object or space.
The smiley mac (both iterations) is more related to european/western design sensibilities, with a higher emphasis placed on the communicative power of the image through analogies and metaphors (Mac is happy = everything is fine, Mac is sad = something isn't right).
I can perhaps see where one might see a Japanese connection in relation to the more techno-cute style that Japan also has embraced more than anywhere else, and also to the colours (muted greys and whites, along with natural materials, esp wood, are very japanese) - but really the connections end there.

The new smiley mac is less successful in communicating its message because it no longer has a context. What? Something is smiling? ok... why? and what is it that is actually happy? The old one worked because it was a MAC that was smiling. Even if it's not what your Mac looks like - you could still without too much effort realise that that little computer was indeed representing a Mac in general (see differences between iconic and pictorial representations in your local gui experts papers) and you could then make the association that your Mac was happy because it was booting as normal.

silverghost · Jul 8, 2002, 01:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nonhuman:

Quick fact: 'Put Away' was one of five ways that you could eject a floppy. They were 'Put Away', 'Eject', drag to the trash, command-shift-1, and the ever popular paperclip in the drive-hole.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>oh thats funny i remember all of those, my personal favorite was the paper clip in the drive-hole see i grew up on a 7100/66 before the real clone wars.

aloha

WombatPredator · Jul 8, 2002, 01:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by M�lum:
I know Dick very well, he was my neighbour when I lived in Utrecht.<hr /></blockquote>You are my new god.

silverghost · Jul 8, 2002, 01:40 PM

come on people its a pre-release, and cant we all just "think different" man i loved that ad campaign. i for one welcome change ive still got all my old disc from my 7.1 floppy to my osx disc so if i want to see the start up screens of those systems its just a simple install away. oh by the way i only start up when i gotta reboot and thats only after a software install, other than that its either on or sleeping never off oh well i like things better this way.

aloha

voodoo · Jul 8, 2002, 01:44 PM

The color of the new startup pic is very C-64ish. I like it. Very Eighties.

lookmark · Jul 8, 2002, 02:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Cartoons and comics do not equal design
And for all intrinsic purposes, the influence that has had on 'japanese design' has a) been more global than isolated to japan, and b) reserved mainly for pop culture alone - and such should be disregarded when discussing proper 'Japanese Design'

Traditional Japanese Design is mostly tied with architecture and 'product design'. Strong features include emphasis on horizontal and vertical lines, as well as natural forms, a zen like minimilism (but never for the sake of simplicity)(this also reflects the religious like approach taken to design), Compactness/Personal Space, User Interaction, and the desire for control over the object or space.<hr /></blockquote>I hear you, and all of what you've said are definitely important aspects of Japanese design. But.

Cartoons and comics do not equal design?? Manga and "technocute" have an incredible influence. And pop culture design should be 'disregarded' when talking about Japanese design? Only if you want to 'disregard' what you don't want to see. Along with some of the most interesting stuff out there.

So yes, I am talking about popular, mainstream Japanese design (contemporary graphic design, product design, design in tv shows and packaging and pop culture). Not architecture. Not other schools of Japanese design, especially more conservative ones. But even in fine arts, (e.g. Murakami), the cute occupies a place. As it has to: it's everywhere.

I'm far from an expert on Japanese design and art, but it seems me like this is an important component of design in Japan that rubs you the wrong way, and you're going out of your way to deny it. I don't see why. It's not global (not yet), it's unique and distinct and immediately recognizable and great; I don't see why it should be ignored or pushed under the carpet.

As for the smiley mac, like or hate it, it's definitely got some of that cute look. There was an article a while back that dubbed the original iMac 'cuddletech'... seems to me that this fits the new boot panel well.

OwlBoy · Jul 8, 2002, 03:04 PM

Hey, the important question is, whos gonna **** up their system folders to show us the missing system folder icon

-Owl

Telusman · Jul 8, 2002, 03:18 PM

Chances are there isnt a new missing system folder icon. As that particular icon is held in the systems firmware, not the bootx portion of OS X. If u delete your system folder for OS X or OS 9, its not possible that the icon would show up from a system folder, but the firmware thats on the mother board. Chances are, there will be a firmware update for all machines to correspond with the new colors that OS X is apparently going to be portraying for us. There was a firmware update for OS X when it came out, and now when you hold down option, all the disk drives look like OS X disk drives and no longer like OS 9 disk drives.

- Telusman -

OwlBoy · Jul 8, 2002, 03:21 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Telusman:
Chances are there isnt a new missing system folder icon. As that particular icon is held in the systems firmware, not the bootx portion of OS X. If u delete your system folder for OS X or OS 9, its not possible that the icon would show up from a system folder, but the firmware thats on the mother board. Chances are, there will be a firmware update for all machines to correspond with the new colors that OS X is apparently going to be portraying for us. There was a firmware update for OS X when it came out, and now when you hold down option, all the disk drives look like OS X disk drives and no longer like OS 9 disk drives.

- Telusman -<hr /></blockquote>hmm iwas thinking about that cuz the thing (no sys icon) would hve to be their even if a HD was not in the comp <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Ok no one has to fsuk up their system.x

-Owl

ophion · Jul 8, 2002, 04:12 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beb:
The computers formally known as Macs. <hr /></blockquote>By what name are they known in the vernacular? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Rickster · Jul 8, 2002, 04:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mac Guru:
Hey Rickster, care to share with us any hack info you have on HOW to change that stuff in BootX to make a different pic? PLEEEEEESE?
<hr /></blockquote>What, you don't feel like just editing the hex?

Here's a hint: that section of the file is the same data format as an 'icl8' resource.

frawgz · Jul 8, 2002, 05:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by derbs:
It has its eyes closed. Either that or it's meant to be oriental.<hr /></blockquote>Most likely the latter, knowing Apple. First Communist Pagans, now Apple's infested with them Orientals. This is obviously a massive Oriental conspiracy to demoralize the Western world using ugly boot screens. You know those sneaky Orientals! I don't know about you guys, but my next computer's going to be a Dell.

vmarks · Jul 8, 2002, 05:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beb:
The Mac has lost it's Mojo! Is it still even a Mac? It used to be a Macintosh. Now it's just an iMac, iBook, PowerMac, PowerBook, or an Xserve.

I'm bettin that soon the term "Mac" will be dropped from the product line replaced by something more simple and rounded.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not really- when the clones were available, the OS had an "About this Computer" option. Now in OS X, it's been restored to "About this Mac" - why would they have bothered if they were going to change it again?

K++ · Jul 8, 2002, 06:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nonhuman:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nathan Adams:
may I ask what Command-Y did?
I'm only a recent of a mac (had a pc for ages, but have long used macs at school/uni - but never got that indepth till recently obviously)

But there you go, someone who switched to mac with the advent of os x - and I want the old happy mac.<hr /></blockquote>Command-Y was for the 'Put Away' command in the Special menu. Essentially it did what command-E does now in OS X, but back in the old days the 'Eject' command didn't do what it does now. It would eject a floppy, but leave the icon on the desktop, so if you used the actualy eject command you would then have to also drag the icon to the trash. If you used command-Y on a file it would move that file back to the folder where it had been created (a function I never really understood the purpose of).

Quick fact: 'Put Away' was one of five ways that you could eject a floppy. They were 'Put Away', 'Eject', drag to the trash, command-shift-1, and the ever popular paperclip in the drive-hole.<hr /></blockquote>Actually Put Away was capable of alot more, it was kinda like a smart move. If you take an application out of its folder and forget where it goes Put away can put it back in its folder. Desktop items would be stored in the HD when you put them away. Besides putting away disks, you could put away network drives and such. Believe me, im just as ****ed at the lack of Put Away in X, and even more ****ed they didnt put it back in Jaguar. Put Away had powerful magics at its disposal that made it remember where things were before you moved em and put em back there.

Timan · Jul 8, 2002, 07:25 PM

<img src="http://members.cox.net/timan25/ono.gif" alt=" - " />
is what my boot screen looks like when i boot off 6c85 :S

Spheric Harlot · Jul 8, 2002, 07:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by M�lum:
Hello Kitty is created by Dick Bruna. I know Dick very well, he was my neighbour when I lived in Utrecht.<hr /></blockquote><off-topic>
Does he know about the vibrator?
Did he design it?
</off-topic>

-spheric*

havannas · Jul 8, 2002, 11:16 PM

according to the 'Think Secret'.....

"The newest builds have an interesting new startup sequence. Upon bootup, after the Happy Mac, a message greets "hello" on the screen, with the blue beachball cursor spinning below it. This feature is still in development."

Mage · Jul 9, 2002, 12:08 AM

ok here are some clearer shots on a server that wont take them down -- apple deleted my itools account.

<img src="http://reflexx.net/deception/close.jpg" alt=" - " />

here are some other pictures --

<a href="http://reflexx.net/deception/boot.jpg" target="_blank"> Full screen boot shot</a>
<a href="http://reflexx.net/deception/shutdown.jpg" target="_blank"> Full screen shutdown shot</a>
<a href="http://reflexx.net/deception/osxboot.jpg" target="_blank"> Former OS X happy mac</a>

by the way, the boot screen is bright white, the lense flare and the refresh rate of the crt makes it look darker.

[ 07-09-2002, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Mage ]

LightWaver-67 · Jul 9, 2002, 12:14 AM

AHA!!!! ThinkSecret clarified it...

That "Hello" screen comes AFTER the little Mac boot-screen! Mystery solved!!!

piracy · Jul 9, 2002, 12:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
AHA!!!! ThinkSecret clarified it...

That "Hello" screen comes AFTER the little Mac boot-screen! Mystery solved!!!<hr /></blockquote>Uh, no. ThinkSecret is wrong. Sorry.

LightWaver-67 · Jul 9, 2002, 12:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by piracy:
Uh, no. ThinkSecret is wrong. Sorry.<hr /></blockquote>Really...? ThinkSecret is THAT BAD with it's info...?

Yeesh! I'm feeling dumber with each post I make.

<img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Mage · Jul 9, 2002, 12:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
AHA!!!! ThinkSecret clarified it...

That "Hello" screen comes AFTER the little Mac boot-screen! Mystery solved!!!<hr /></blockquote>very very wrong. when you boot up it's stays black for an abnormal amount of time and then boots to the white screen and just the mac face in the neat box. then a slip second later hello appears under it and the blue aqua curser spins as it boots the kernel.

lookmark · Jul 9, 2002, 12:45 AM

Thanks for the new pics. This angle helps to see it better.

Was a little undecided before (too cute?), but I'm sold now. Definitely an improvement, and definitely a welcome change.

moonmonkey · Jul 9, 2002, 01:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by moonmonkey:
As far as I know the chimes are in the ROM of the machine, and so cannot be changed, the different chimes are from different macs.<hr /></blockquote>CAUTION: NAIVE QUESTION AHEAD:

Isn't that something that can be updated like a Firmware update...? Can't that be flashed & re-written...?

(be gentle with me, I know not what I speak of)<hr /></blockquote>I think that firmware updates were only introduced with the first iMacs, before that the chimes were in the ROM. <img border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" title="" src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" />

Synotic · Jul 9, 2002, 02:14 AM

I don't imagine it would be very hard to make it change the word hello based on the chosen language... would it?

Now what would really be cool.. if it played a full screen boot up movie like the demo apps you see in stores. This would eliminate the "hello" is only an English word problem. (If you're not familiar with the demos.. they often have flying pieces of text saying "Fast" in 10 different languages).

I'm sure Apple could make a great bootup movie.. Also, wouldn't "Welcome" be more appropriate? ..maybe..

awaspaas · Jul 9, 2002, 02:26 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Synotic:
Also, wouldn't "Welcome" be more appropriate? ..maybe..<hr /></blockquote>Like the setup assistant intro? That video is on every OS X user's hard drive right now!

/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/SetupAssistant.framework/Versions/A/Resources/intro.mov

Nathan Adams · Jul 9, 2002, 03:20 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lookmark:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Cartoons and comics do not equal design
And for all intrinsic purposes, the influence that has had on 'japanese design' has a) been more global than isolated to japan, and b) reserved mainly for pop culture alone - and such should be disregarded when discussing proper 'Japanese Design'

Traditional Japanese Design is mostly tied with architecture and 'product design'. Strong features include emphasis on horizontal and vertical lines, as well as natural forms, a zen like minimilism (but never for the sake of simplicity)(this also reflects the religious like approach taken to design), Compactness/Personal Space, User Interaction, and the desire for control over the object or space.<hr /></blockquote>I hear you, and all of what you've said are definitely important aspects of Japanese design. But.

Cartoons and comics do not equal design?? Manga and "technocute" have an incredible influence. And pop culture design should be 'disregarded' when talking about Japanese design? Only if you want to 'disregard' what you don't want to see. Along with some of the most interesting stuff out there.

So yes, I am talking about popular, mainstream Japanese design (contemporary graphic design, product design, design in tv shows and packaging and pop culture). Not architecture. Not other schools of Japanese design, especially more conservative ones. But even in fine arts, (e.g. Murakami), the cute occupies a place. As it has to: it's everywhere.

I'm far from an expert on Japanese design and art, but it seems me like this is an important component of design in Japan that rubs you the wrong way, and you're going out of your way to deny it. I don't see why. It's not global (not yet), it's unique and distinct and immediately recognizable and great; I don't see why it should be ignored or pushed under the carpet.

As for the smiley mac, like or hate it, it's definitely got some of that cute look. There was an article a while back that dubbed the original iMac 'cuddletech'... seems to me that this fits the new boot panel well.<hr /></blockquote>Oh, it far that rubs me the wrong way - i love it actually (**looks at his plush Toro doll and little grey aibo figurine next to his imac**), it's just that when one talks about 'Japanese Design' - it's referring to traditional japanese design - which is still very prevelant today. You wouldn't take childrens magazines in the us based off the influence of disney and call it 'american design'. It's still a major part of the culture and visual langauge - but not american design.

I don't see much of a connection between the new happy mac and the kawaii look. As I said before, it seems to be a much more european styling. The original happy mac is a lot closer to what you're referring to.

ranga · Jul 9, 2002, 03:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:
It's probably not an SE though, which had two floppy drives.<hr /></blockquote>It could be an SE since some SEs had only one floppy drive (the top slot contained the hard drive).

--ranga

Synotic · Jul 9, 2002, 04:00 AM

Some ideas..

Probably not possible since it most likely can't play a movie that early up.. but worth a shot..

To replace the happy mac... no mac at all:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot1.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot1.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Afterwards:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot2.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot2.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Also replacing the sad mac:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot3.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot3.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

And then:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot4.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot4.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Click on thumbnails for larger image.

Any thoughts?

Synotic · Jul 9, 2002, 04:05 AM

BTW.. Nathan.. I think you're reading into this a bit much.. The "small" possible connections that you made earlier are exactly why people, myself included, think it looks Japanese. Perhaps it's wrong.. but when most people see it.. it does bring up the word "Japanese". I had about a million ideas for analogies but I'm sleepy and tired <img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />

Cipher13 · Jul 9, 2002, 04:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cwasko:
I say trash the old icon. Nothing is the same anymore... why should the boot icon be? Granted, I think the picutre shown at the top of this thread is ugly. But, I could really care less. Apple needs to break the mold completely and totaly cut all ties to the 'old world' Mac. So, punt that puppy and lets get on with the game.<hr /></blockquote>Not while it's still a "Mac".

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gee4orce:
What's the big deal ? This is OS X remember - you're only going to see the boot screen like once. Ever. Unless you have a power cut.

Sheesh !<hr /></blockquote>Um... how about no...

--

OSX is not the MacOS anymore.

It'll all have changed soon.

OSX should be "OSX", not "Mac OS X".

Macs should just be Apples, or something.

It won't happen, but thats how it should be... the Macintosh is nearly dead.

Millennium · Jul 9, 2002, 12:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:

OSX is not the MacOS anymore.

It'll all have changed soon.

OSX should be "OSX", not "Mac OS X".

Macs should just be Apples, or something.

It won't happen, but thats how it should be... the Macintosh is nearly dead.<hr /></blockquote>OSX is not OS9, just as much as Cro-Magnon man is not Neanderthal. Both are the same species (Mac or human, respectively); the former is simply later on the evolutionary line.

Only one entity has the right to say what "Mac" is and present that as fact. That is Apple. Not you. Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you weren't so arrogant about your opinion.

Phoenix1701 · Jul 9, 2002, 12:56 PM

Synotic, those boot panels are absolutely hilarious! I can't help wondering what the translation for "Your computer is fuxxored" is in German.

Can you imagine starting up your computer and seeing that? lol!!

Jim Paradise · Jul 9, 2002, 08:12 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:

OSX is not the MacOS anymore.

It'll all have changed soon.

OSX should be "OSX", not "Mac OS X".

Macs should just be Apples, or something.

It won't happen, but thats how it should be... the Macintosh is nearly dead.<hr /></blockquote>OSX is not OS9, just as much as Cro-Magnon man is not Neanderthal. Both are the same species (Mac or human, respectively); the former is simply later on the evolutionary line.

Only one entity has the right to say what "Mac" is and present that as fact. That is Apple. Not you. Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you weren't so arrogant about your opinion.<hr /></blockquote>No sh*t. Truthfully Mac OS X is more Mac to me then *any* of the old flavours of OS that Apple has ever produced. OS 7? Oh what fun that OS was... OS 8? Certainly *really* advanced... OS 9? Yay for keychain...

OS X is how I want my "Mac OS" to be. Macintosh isn't nearly dead at all. It's evolved and is still evolving into something a lot more usable and elegant. ^_^

Bi@tch · Jul 10, 2002, 03:23 AM

Ok so that means there's something with my pirated jaguar build?

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/tristanworks/87boot.jpg" alt=" - " />

Cipher13 · Jul 10, 2002, 03:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:

OSX is not the MacOS anymore.

It'll all have changed soon.

OSX should be "OSX", not "Mac OS X".

Macs should just be Apples, or something.

It won't happen, but thats how it should be... the Macintosh is nearly dead.<hr /></blockquote>OSX is not OS9, just as much as Cro-Magnon man is not Neanderthal. Both are the same species (Mac or human, respectively); the former is simply later on the evolutionary line.

Only one entity has the right to say what "Mac" is and present that as fact. That is Apple. Not you. Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you weren't so arrogant about your opinion.<hr /></blockquote>So, wait, you're allowed to say how you think things should be, but I'm not? Yeah, okay, whatever...

By quoting you, I'm also reiterating my point... my mind hasn't change on that, and won't. It isn't just an evolution, it's more than that.

You do realise the only reason the Macintosh name hasn't been dumped is to draw on the name, right? Which is perfectly logical and legitimate.

So arrogant? I stated my opinion. Do you have a problem with that?

How about rather than immature name calling, you discuss the issue? Or would that be far too mentally straining? I don't believe OSX should bear the "Macintosh" badge. You do. Fine. Why is your opinion any less arrogant than mine? My advice to you is to get over yourself.

[ 07-10-2002, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]

ckohler · Jul 10, 2002, 05:36 AM

Millennium isn't arguing your opinion Cipher so much as he's arguing your complete and utter lack of tact. Your reputation for this precedes you. That "my way or the highway" style of writing is what is really getting under peoples' skin... not your opinion. I honestly value your opinion as much as the next guy but could you at least try putting your thoughts into words that aren't sure to instantly set off a backlash? It's just a little common curtesy.

Now back on topic, I think the new boot up screen looks keen. <g> But the photos make it hard for me to tell what color the background is. I thought I saw someone post that it is white. Is this true? It looks kinda blue in the screenshots.

Amorya · Jul 10, 2002, 05:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nonhuman:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nathan Adams:
may I ask what Command-Y did?
I'm only a recent of a mac (had a pc for ages, but have long used macs at school/uni - but never got that indepth till recently obviously)

But there you go, someone who switched to mac with the advent of os x - and I want the old happy mac.<hr /></blockquote>Command-Y was for the 'Put Away' command in the Special menu. Essentially it did what command-E does now in OS X, but back in the old days the 'Eject' command didn't do what it does now. It would eject a floppy, but leave the icon on the desktop, so if you used the actualy eject command you would then have to also drag the icon to the trash. If you used command-Y on a file it would move that file back to the folder where it had been created (a function I never really understood the purpose of).

Quick fact: 'Put Away' was one of five ways that you could eject a floppy. They were 'Put Away', 'Eject', drag to the trash, command-shift-1, and the ever popular paperclip in the drive-hole.<hr /></blockquote>Put Away on files was great... especially if you use the desktop like I do, for temporary storage. It didn't put the file where it was created, but where it had last been (like an undo command for move, but was file specific so didn't go away if you did something else).

So you could get out all the files you were working on, pop them on the desktop, and when you 'd finished that project you just did put away on them all.

Amorya

jasong · Jul 10, 2002, 08:23 AM

Bi@tch, did you happen to notice if there was a preference to have the cursor label appear in different positions around the cursor? I want my "the Cursor" label to appear on the left.

C'mon Apple, let's have some choices here. I'm not upgrading if I can't move it.

-- Jason

Developer · Jul 10, 2002, 08:52 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Amorya:

Put Away on files was great... especially if you use the desktop like I do, for temporary storage. It didn't put the file where it was created, but where it had last been (like an undo command for move, but was file specific so didn't go away if you did something else).

So you could get out all the files you were working on, pop them on the desktop, and when you 'd finished that project you just did put away on them all.<hr /></blockquote>It also worked for files in the trash.

It's sad we lost the feature. I guess it has something to do with evil metadata.

JKT · Jul 10, 2002, 09:50 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Developer:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Amorya:

Put Away on files was great... especially if you use the desktop like I do, for temporary storage. It didn't put the file where it was created, but where it had last been (like an undo command for move, but was file specific so didn't go away if you did something else).

So you could get out all the files you were working on, pop them on the desktop, and when you 'd finished that project you just did put away on them all.<hr /></blockquote>It also worked for files in the trash.

It's sad we lost the feature. I guess it has something to do with evil metadata.<hr /></blockquote>I was about to write that we now have command-Z for this but I guess it isn't quite the same as Put Away was...

Cipher13 · Jul 10, 2002, 09:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ckohler:
Millennium isn't arguing your opinion Cipher so much as he's arguing your complete and utter lack of tact. Your reputation for this precedes you. That "my way or the highway" style of writing is what is really getting under peoples' skin... not your opinion. I honestly value your opinion as much as the next guy but could you at least try putting your thoughts into words that aren't sure to instantly set off a backlash? It's just a little common curtesy.

Now back on topic, I think the new boot up screen looks keen. <g> But the photos make it hard for me to tell what color the background is. I thought I saw someone post that it is white. Is this true? It looks kinda blue in the screenshots.<hr /></blockquote>The problem is, though, that's just how I voice my opinion... it's a pitfall of my writing style. I write very much the way I speak... the difference being with speech one can use tone, pitch, inflection, etc, to remove some of the 'sting' that would be present otherwise.

What I say isn't, obviously, spoken like the Word of God... it may seem it, but as I said above... that's just how I write.

If that causes misunderstanding, well, I can't help that... just keep it in mind. An opinion is the same, humble or not.

Nebagakid · Jul 10, 2002, 10:44 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Synotic:
Some ideas..

Probably not possible since it most likely can't play a movie that early up.. but worth a shot..

To replace the happy mac... no mac at all:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot1.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot1.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Afterwards:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot2.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot2.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Also replacing the sad mac:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot3.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot3.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

And then:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot4.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot4.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Click on thumbnails for larger image.

Any thoughts?<hr /></blockquote>Syn, these are amazing, send them to Apple, you would surely get a job. Maybe replace it with a
Gurgel Doll?

Nebagakid · Jul 10, 2002, 10:45 AM

Double Post

[ 07-10-2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Nebagakid ]

pmcd · Jul 11, 2002, 05:38 AM

You have a point. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) OSX went the Carbon with integrated Classic route so that there is a still a lot of the Mac around. It does appear as though Carbon is going to be around for a long time.

In short I wish what you were saying were more true but compromises have been made which won't easily be undone.

One thing, though, the users are more or less the same and they probably define the platform more than anything else.

philip

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:

OSX is not the MacOS anymore.

It'll all have changed soon.

OSX should be "OSX", not "Mac OS X".

Macs should just be Apples, or something.

It won't happen, but thats how it should be... the Macintosh is nearly dead.<hr /></blockquote>

Jerommeke · Jul 11, 2002, 08:03 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Synotic:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot1.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot1.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

Afterwards:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot2.png" target="_blank"> <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deimosdownloads/boot2.jpg" alt=" - " /></a>

<hr /></blockquote>I like these ones pretty much! Especially the second one!

mudzilla · Jul 11, 2002, 10:55 AM

after having to reboot my iBook today (uptime of 21 days), i was thinking about the startup Happy Mac after reading all of this thread, and want to post my thoughts on it.

The happy mac is an icon of a computer that's what, 18 years old? while it's cool we have a lot of heritage being mac users, imagine those young users and "switchers" booting up a Mac for the first time...

"Ugh, whats that?"
"i dunno, looks like an old 8-bit video game character smiling at me"

Point is, while we all know what it is, a lot of new-comers to the Mac won't. Ok, so they have to go find out what it is if they want to, but i bet over half of them will say "so what".
The mac is known for it's intuitiveness, so why cling to the past and use such an old icon that really won't be well known to first time Mac users? Give them something modern and not 18 years old...

To be honest, I expected them to change it after the introduction of the bondi iMac, another cultural milestone for Apple.

Apologies if someone's said these points already, but I like the new startup face, and i hope they keep it. Can't wait for Jaguar.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 11, 2002, 11:02 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mudzilla:
"Ugh, whats that?"
"i dunno, looks like an old 8-bit video game character smiling at me"

Point is, while we all know what it is, a lot of new-comers to the Mac won't. Ok, so they have to go find out what it is if they want to, but i bet over half of them will say "so what".<hr /></blockquote>Matter of fact, a friend who recently bought his first Mac (FP iMac - he LOVES it) asked me about it the other day. I had to dig up a photograph of a 128K on the net to show him.

I'll see it go, as the German saying goes, with a laughing and a crying eye...

-s*

Jerommeke · Jul 11, 2002, 11:18 AM

I think something like a aqua blue apple would be more ... suitable.

biscuit · Jul 11, 2002, 11:38 AM

Blimey, I never knew you could do all that with Put Away! And I always thought I knew a lot about Macs...

...maybe thats part of the reason it disappeared; if its not immediately obvious what a command does then its bad UI for new users, right?

biscuit