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sek929  (op)
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Jan 19, 2015, 07:58 PM
 
Taping signals from the sideline was banned right before the start of the 2007 season, before that literally every team did it and there was not a single rule against it. The rule change was sent out in a memo and BB ignored it, the NFL took a first round pick and handed out a ludicrous fine, par for the course from Goodell, who has a marvelous track record of making the right call. That very season the Patriots went 18-1, and broke every conceivable record while doing it, to lose to a very hot Giants team in the SB.

This series of events have cemented fools minds into thinking the Patriots have cheated their way into 6 SuperBowls, a notion so ridiculous only the most hardened trolls continue to bring it up, usually because their team is some garbage heap of mediocrity. I suggest you do more research into "spygate" before posting again, because everything you've heard is complete bullshit.

“Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals." Bill Cowher - former Steelers HC
Also, I find it hilarious that the Giants won two SBs recently yet their fans have a huge hair across their ass for the Patriots for some reason, just be happy your team had success and move on. Sadly, there will never be an end to the haters hating. Fortunately my favorite team has been dominate for 15 years in a sport built for parity, and it's been a hell of a ride.

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starman
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Jan 20, 2015, 01:24 AM
 
But, again, we shut you down. Twice.

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The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2015, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
But, again, we shut you down. Twice.
2/10 for creativity and effort.
     
starman
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Jan 20, 2015, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
2/10 for creativity and effort.
And yet 10/10 for truth. And beating the Pats was glorious.

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The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2015, 12:26 PM
 
I take it back. You're trying really hard.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 20, 2015, 01:23 PM
 
Ruining that perfect season was pretty awesome (I strongly dislike the Pats).
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Jan 20, 2015, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Ruining that perfect season was pretty awesome (I strongly dislike the Pats).
It was. It really, really was.


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sek929  (op)
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Jan 20, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
Alright, finally some shit talking I can get behind!

The 18-1 season was just about the most brutal loss I'll ever witness as a fan. The Giants defense stifled Brady and Eli played out of his mind, really on both occasions. The better team won, but does that somehow discredit the Pat's success? I mean if it does I guess that means we can all stop praising Peyton Manning so much, seeing his historic amount of post season losses and 1-2 record in SBs, complete with an utter pants-pooping last year versus the Seahawks. Of course I'm not into hyperbole so I don't discredit someone's success simply because they lost the final game of the year, no matter the circumstances. With so many teams dying to play above .500 football just making the playoffs is a feat in and of itself. Which the Pats have done 12 times out of 14 years.

So the Pats are going to their 6th superbowl with Tom and Bill, after winning in the 4th consecutive AFC Championship trip in a row. The Giants went 6-10 this year, the year before Eli threw 18 TDs and 27(!) interceptions. Since 2001 no team has won more regular season games, post season games, SuperBowls, put up more points or allowed as few against in all of football. Brady now has 20 post season victories under his belt which is more than 21(!!!) NFL teams have in their entire franchise history. Were the lost perfect season and 2010 SB demoralizing losses? Yep. Would I prefer to be a fan of literally any other team because of that? Haha, yeah right.

"But sek" I hear you cry, "The AFC is a soft division!" Well the AFC North was the only division in the NFL this year in which all teams had winning records, while the NFC South was a dumpster fire of epic proportions. Peyton Manning gets injured and the Colts go 2-14, Brady gets injured and the Pats go 11-5, missing the playoffs due to a tiebreaker with the Ravens.

So just keep hatin'...really I mean it. I love how much you all hate Brady, I love how Bill is some Emperor Palpatine-esque figure to NFL fans. It only proves that success breeds jealousy. I love the sport of football and I appreciate the success and exemplary play of teams besides my own, and like I said, this has been one hell of a ride watching the Pats rise from a laughingstock franchise to the most hated team on the planet.

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Jan 20, 2015, 09:02 PM
 
"**** you and your tuck rule!"

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starman
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Jan 20, 2015, 10:41 PM
 
Nobody's jealous of the Pats. Nobody.

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:24 AM
 

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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 12:46 AM
 
Made all the difference in a 45-7 game. Meanwhile Rodgers likes to push how much his game balls can be over-inflated and noone bats an eye. All the balls were surrendered to the refs 2 hours before the game, guess the difference wasn't noticeable to them? Weird shit though, guess Bill is palpatine.

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Jan 21, 2015, 01:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
"**** you and your tuck rule!"

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Jan 21, 2015, 01:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Made all the difference in a 45-7 game.
That really does't matter. 11 out of 12 shows this was not a coincidence.

Why is it that the Pats always feel like they need that kind of "edge" ?

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Jan 21, 2015, 05:48 AM
 
The final score was irrelevant. Obviously they didn't think the game was going to be a blow-out, otherwise they wouldn't have been cheating.
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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 09:56 AM
 
Welp, that's the season folks. Congratulations to back-to-back SB winners the Seattle Seahawks. May your reign as "most hated team" be long and prosperous.

An unnecessary underhanded move to invalidate the best season of football my Pats have played in a long time. They'll get nailed for this one, especially given the year Goodell has had. Just a huge letdown, probaby more so than 07 and 10. Revell in your just spite, Pats haters, this time you were proven right, and the Pats faithful will have to stew with and omlet-sized amount of egg on their face.

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The Final Dakar
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Jan 21, 2015, 09:58 AM
 
So did the refs actually test the balls or did the Pats actually manage to deflate them under everyones noses?
     
sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 10:15 AM
 
The balls had to be properly inflated when they were handed to the refs pre-game. What happens from then to game time isn't clear as day, buy Brady and his staff do get the balls to warm up with, how on Earth they managed to uniformly let 2 psi out of 11 balls is beyond me. The biggest question, however, is who didn't do their job and deflate the 12th one?

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The Final Dakar
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Jan 21, 2015, 10:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
The balls had to be properly inflated when they were handed to the refs pre-game.
I'm saying that only matters if the refs bother to check them. Yes, I assume they do their job, but its also not unbelievable that they wouldn't.
     
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:01 AM
 
On ESPN they said they were checked pre-game, then the deflation was noticed by a colts DB after an interception, who handed it to his trainer, who then passed it on to the refs with his concerns, which led to all of the balls being checked.

Pretty sure the Pats are the most hated, even before this, followed by the Seahawks.
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:05 AM
 
So, what's a fair punishment here? Pretty sure any monetary fine for the Pats would be 'worth it.'

On the flip-side, DQing them would come off as overkill.
     
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:28 AM
 
Hahaha, re-playing the game this weekend would be so epic! And crushing to Colts fans when they get destroyed again hahaha
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:33 AM
 
If the game were closer I could see a DQ being warranted, but I think a big fine (maybe a new league record) plus loss of draft picks, and maybe a censure of Belichick, being likely.
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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:35 AM
 
Rules state a 25k fine, but as with everything in the NFL Goodell has final say so who knows. Possible lost draft picks and a huge fine, maybe a SB suspension for Bill.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Hahaha, re-playing the game this weekend would be so epic! And crushing to Colts fans when they get destroyed again hahaha
Here's a good one, make them replay the game, but with Belichick and Brady at home on suspension. That would be epic.
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 21, 2015, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
maybe a SB suspension for Bill.
I like this idea. DQs the person in charge while letting the players play.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 01:35 PM
 
Sean Payton was suspensed for an entire year for his role in bounty-gate, even though he did not orchestrate the injury-for-profit plan he knew about it and did nothing.

I see a similar penalty for Bill if it is uncovered he knew about the balls all along, but I'm not sure how you prove something like that. At any rate the Pats being banned from the SB seems very unlikely, the fine and lost picks most likely, and a year ban of Bill from the league most fair.

Christ, what a mess...

Go Pats? I guess?

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Jan 21, 2015, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Here's a good one, make them replay the game, but with Belichick and Brady at home on suspension. That would be epic.
They could cancel the Pro Bowl and replay the game this Sunday. 👍
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Jan 21, 2015, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post


So the Pats are going to their 6th superbowl with Tom and Bill, after winning in the 4th consecutive AFC Championship trip in a row.
Ravens beat the Pats in the AFC championship year before last.

And yeah, everyone hates the Pats because every time they are successful it comes out that they either outright cheated or are firmly in the grey area. Try winning one honestly, and they'd have more respect. IMO, all of Brady and Belechik's rings have asterisks next to them. Seems like each time they make the Superbowl they erupt in scandal. Smoke, fire and all that.
     
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Jan 21, 2015, 06:04 PM
 
I don't follow the NFL closely but I know of two scandals. What else have I missed?
     
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Jan 21, 2015, 07:23 PM
 
Well, Spygate wasn't really just one scandal, it was just the first time it was made public, and they haven't been back to the SB since then (despite having the best playoff QB of all time).
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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Ravens beat the Pats in the AFC championship year before last.

And yeah, everyone hates the Pats because every time they are successful it comes out that they either outright cheated or are firmly in the grey area. Try winning one honestly, and they'd have more respect. IMO, all of Brady and Belechik's rings have asterisks next to them. Seems like each time they make the Superbowl they erupt in scandal. Smoke, fire and all that.
Terrel Suggs poured bleach on his wife and child and kicked her in the face, Ray Lewis plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a murder case and has a statue of himself outside the stadium. Ray Rice and his wife he beat unconscious took the mic together to downplay that scandal...yet somehow deflated balls are the worst thing ever, gimme a break.

Neither of the first players received disciplinary action from the Ravens. Glass houses and all.

3 Super Bowls won before the rule change in 07 have asterisks? Why exactly?

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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 10:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Well, Spygate wasn't really just one scandal, it was just the first time it was made public, and they haven't been back to the SB since then (despite having the best playoff QB of all time).
Uhh the public apology was in 08, they've been to the SB 3 times since then

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 21, 2015, 10:56 PM
 
Sorry, they haven't won a SB since then.
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Jan 21, 2015, 10:59 PM
 
Coincidence? I think not.
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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:07 PM
 
Let the hate flow through you.

Another report today, backup balls that were properly inflated replaced the deflated balls at the beginning of the second half, the Pats scored 28 unanswered points. Still worse than women-beaters I know.

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:21 PM
 
Seems like you admit to something shady but then wave it off because it likely didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game. It does, not because of the score, but because it further tarnishes the NFL's reputation of fair play. I think the Pats will still go to the SB, the punishments will be enacted after the game, but for the first time since I was in grammar school I won't be watching it, and I hope others protest by boycotting the game too. That's the only way the league will get the message that this type of shit is inexcusable.
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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:25 PM
 
When a Ravens fan tries to play the morality card I will not hold my tongue.

As for you boycotting the game, again, what about the previous...and far more egregious...NFL scandals didn't do the trick?

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
When a Ravens fan tries to play the morality card I will not hold my tongue.

As for you boycotting the game, again, what about the previous...and far more egregious...NFL scandals didn't do the trick?
More BS excuses? "But, but, they're bad people too!" Those issues weren't during the game itself, those were off-field shenanigans. This was directly involving the outcome of a game on a level that, in my eyes, is as bad as betting on your own team, using steroids, or corking bats in baseball. It's cheating, plain and simple, and they shouldn't be rewarded with a Super Bowl berth (though they probably will go anyway).

(I'm not a Ravens fan, far from it.)
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sek929  (op)
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Jan 21, 2015, 11:49 PM
 
Snow-i is and I was referring to him.

Excuses? I asked you a question.

With concussions, domestic violence, and cover-ups everywhere (fix was in for spygate remember?) Why is this the catalyst for you to boycott football?

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:07 AM
 

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Snow-i is and I was referring to him.

Excuses? I asked you a question.

With concussions, domestic violence, and cover-ups everywhere (fix was in for spygate remember?) Why is this the catalyst for you to boycott football?
I explained it, this is an instance that directly impacts gameplay, the game itself. It's an ethical breach, not a moral one. I don't care if a person playing is good or evil, they get their jollies watching someone get knocked the f@ck out, that's their business, but ethics are the rules of the game, and without them it would be chaos and no longer a sport. Messing with game equipment is an ethics violation, so is spying to get team intel, they unbalance the game. However, a player beating his wife, running dog fights, and generally being a vicious asshole, those are matters for law enforcement (when applicable) or their shrink, and if the league wants to get involved due to image, then that's their call, according to the player contracts that they willfully sign. It's on a different layer and isn't directly effecting competition on the field and the rules of play.

Sure, using D&D terms, I'd like for everyone to be Lawful Good; obey the law and look out for everyone else's well being, but by the rule of law, you can't make everyone be good (moral), you can only make them be nice (ethical).
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Jan 22, 2015, 06:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Terrel Suggs poured bleach on his wife and child and kicked her in the face, Ray Lewis plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a murder case and has a statue of himself outside the stadium. Ray Rice and his wife he beat unconscious took the mic together to downplay that scandal...yet somehow deflated balls are the worst thing ever, gimme a break.
Both of those were off the field incidents. The Pats have had plenty of theirs too. This one is an on the field incident so I'm not really seeing the relevance.

Neither of the first players received disciplinary action from the Ravens. Glass houses and all.
They weren't caught cheating in the AFC Title game. Did Belichick discipline himself at some point? Where's the glass house?

3 Super Bowls won before the rule change in 07 have asterisks? Why exactly?
Why do you think? I know its tough to admit it, but Belichick has a history of breaking the rules. This time it was in the AFC championship, and quite possibly in the divisional round as well (where, in a close game, could absolutely have affected the outcome). Dog bites you once, shame on the dog....


Now before this turns in to every other argument with a Pats apologist is bound to end up, the dude cheated. You can't rationalize it or justify it or try to mitigate it by naming bad things other people did. The Pats cheated - that's the bottom line, and that's why everyone hates the Pats - because this isn't the first time, and Brady certainly has no reservations about whining to the refs when someone tussles his hair.
     
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Jan 22, 2015, 07:47 AM
 
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
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Jan 22, 2015, 10:25 AM
 
Man, sports.
     
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Jan 22, 2015, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Let the hate flow through you.

Another report today, backup balls that were properly inflated replaced the deflated balls at the beginning of the second half, the Pats scored 28 unanswered points. Still worse than women-beaters I know.
The replacement balls also were found under inflated
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Jan 22, 2015, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
     
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Jan 22, 2015, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I explained it, this is an instance that directly impacts gameplay, the game itself. It's an ethical breach, not a moral one. I don't care if a person playing is good or evil, they get their jollies watching someone get knocked the f@ck out, that's their business, but ethics are the rules of the game, and without them it would be chaos and no longer a sport. Messing with game equipment is an ethics violation, so is spying to get team intel, they unbalance the game. However, a player beating his wife, running dog fights, and generally being a vicious asshole, those are matters for law enforcement (when applicable) or their shrink, and if the league wants to get involved due to image, then that's their call, according to the player contracts that they willfully sign. It's on a different layer and isn't directly effecting competition on the field and the rules of play.
I see where you're coming from, but I do not separate the sport from the individuals that play it. Not to mention when the fame and wealth of a certain player interferes with the process of justice then your point goes straight out the window. If Ray Rice was just another dude who threw a haymaker at his fiancé on tape he'd be in jail, but he was a famous player from a high-level NFL franchise so he was all set to escape under the cloak of his own team and the NFL, thankfully that didn't happen, but justice was hardly served. If a rockstar I like is found to be a pedophile I can't just say, "Well he still rocks out so who cares?" If an NFL Player is a piece of shit women beater I can't say, "Well at least he respects the integrity of the game" That's no bueno for me, you're different so I guess we'll just call it there.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Why do you think? I know its tough to admit it, but Belichick has a history of breaking the rules. This time it was in the AFC championship, and quite possibly in the divisional round as well (where, in a close game, could absolutely have affected the outcome). Dog bites you once, shame on the dog....
Uhh, I think they won the super bowl in 01, 03 and 04 by being a superior football team, just how all the stats they've accumulated since then are due to high levels of preparation, coaching and phenomenal play. If the rule Belichick broke in 07 was not a rule during the SB runs then how do you suppose they cheated? Lemme guess....gut feeling? By the way John Harbaugh was asked if he felt there was any funny business with the balls during the divisional game and he said no, so past sour grapes of the Pats amazing trick plays that were 100% legal I'm not sure what you thought went on....besides the Ravens blowing two 14 point leads.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Now before this turns in to every other argument with a Pats apologist is bound to end up, the dude cheated. You can't rationalize it or justify it or try to mitigate it by naming bad things other people did. The Pats cheated - that's the bottom line, and that's why everyone hates the Pats - because this isn't the first time, and Brady certainly has no reservations about whining to the refs when someone tussles his hair.
Funny I was just thinking how every argument with a Spygater is like talking to an anti-vaxxer. Testimonies and insider info that has been proven to be utter nonsense is still regarded as the truth, then a whole truckload of gut feelings, jumps to conclusions and complete fabrications are piled on top. Not to be outdone you've even trotted out the classic Pats hater "Brady is a whiner" rhetoric. Now I could point out the number of other players that complain after every down, expected a call to go a different way or that the refs missed something...but unfortunately I don't have 10 lifetimes. All quarterbacks benefit from the newer rules of roughing the passer, and all of them complain when they think a hit qualifies but was not called...watch some football and you might notice it.

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
The replacement balls also were found under inflated
Any source for this info? I've read the replacement balls report from a dozen different sources and all mention the balls were tested by the refs and passed the pressure tests before coming in the game.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 22, 2015, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I see where you're coming from, but I do not separate the sport from the individuals that play it. Not to mention when the fame and wealth of a certain player interferes with the process of justice then your point goes straight out the window. If Ray Rice was just another dude who threw a haymaker at his fiancé on tape he'd be in jail, but he was a famous player from a high-level NFL franchise so he was all set to escape under the cloak of his own team and the NFL, thankfully that didn't happen, but justice was hardly served. If a rockstar I like is found to be a pedophile I can't just say, "Well he still rocks out so who cares?" If an NFL Player is a piece of shit women beater I can't say, "Well at least he respects the integrity of the game" That's no bueno for me, you're different so I guess we'll just call it there.
Yeah, none of that relates to the Pats cheating and breaking game rules, at all.
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Jan 23, 2015, 12:22 AM
 
On Thursday, the league announced that the Broncos have been fined $950,000 and will lose a third-round selection in next year's draft for circumventing the salary cap between 1996 and '98. The penalties were set in an agreement between the league, the Players Association and the Broncos and resolve a case against the team brought before the sport's special master by the NFL's Management Council in January 2003, the league announced.

The penalties could be viewed as further vindication for Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis, who has said in the past that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen should be suspended for salary cap violations. Davis has contended that the Broncos' circumvention of the salary cap helped them win the Super Bowl in the 1997 and '98 seasons.
Gasp! That's nearly one million dollars!

Should have the official ballghazi report sometime tomorrow.

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