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sek929  (op)
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Apr 25, 2015, 12:16 PM
 
"The Wells Report will have almost nothing to do with the Patriots. It is an investigation into the officials and the Colts."

"As one league source recently explained it to PFT, the league’€™s investigation has expanded to explore its own behavior, including for example the identity of person(s) who leaked to the media information that suggested the Patriots did something wrong."

It was a witch-hunt meant to distract the Patriots before the SB, just like the "taping walkthroughs" allegations before the 08 SB that turned out to be completely bogus.

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The Final Dakar
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May 6, 2015, 02:43 PM
 
     
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May 6, 2015, 02:48 PM
 
GUILTY
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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 6, 2015, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
"The Wells Report will have almost nothing to do with the Patriots. It is an investigation into the officials and the Colts."

"As one league source recently explained it to PFT, the league’€™s investigation has expanded to explore its own behavior, including for example the identity of person(s) who leaked to the media information that suggested the Patriots did something wrong."

It was a witch-hunt meant to distract the Patriots before the SB, just like the "taping walkthroughs" allegations before the 08 SB that turned out to be completely bogus.


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sek929  (op)
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May 6, 2015, 05:09 PM
 
Well...****.

As penance for my misplaced loyalty I will now become a fan of the Browns.

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May 6, 2015, 05:17 PM
 
TBT, I don't blame you, there was a ton of bullshit out that the Pats would be 100% exonerated. All the journalists who were spouting that should be strung up by their own balls, since it's clear that either; their sources were crap and they didn't care, or they were making it up as they went along.
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sek929  (op)
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May 6, 2015, 07:15 PM
 
"Only 4 Colts balls were tested because the officials were running out of time before the start of the second half." (bottom of page 7)

3 of those 4 tested were also below minimum specs. This is not an attempt to distract from the flagrant rule-breaking of the Pats, just food for thought.

SEK's Official Statement

(now that he has had time to take a shower and drink a couple beers with dinner while reading the Wells Report info)

Curious this report didn't come in time for the draft, where losing picks for the coming year would have done more damage. Most likely the NFL didn't want it to detract from the draft atmosphere. Belichick is poised to come out of this clean, but thanks to two guys using their work phones to discuss incriminating topics Tom Brady will most likely miss the first game of the year and suffer a decent fine...and of course more or less cement himself with nearly everyone as a cheat and a liar. All because he demanded to have his game balls filled with slightly less air than allowed.

Secondly, it's clear the methods for precise pressure monitoring and inflating of game balls is a farce. If a ball is found low at the check in it can easily become over-inflated from that process. This is most likely what Brady hated the most, so in his obsessed mind the only way to ensure they'd be at the soft end of 12.5psi was to deflate them manually with the help of a couple jabronies on the take. The amount the Colt's game balls were under pressurized is a complete non-issue, but the intent to circumvent the rules and deflate them manually after check in is all the marbles in this case. Clearly Brady knew these two guys he said he never knew, clearly their only relationship revolved around the precise lowering of the ball to a level the refs would have caught and filled at check in, clearly this a big deal from the ethical standpoint of sport...but it does not diminish any of Brady's athletic accomplishments. This simply reveals him to be a control freak of the highest nature, which we already knew, and willing to have others break NFL rules for him because he's a superstar.

You can say I'm still spinning the issue to protect my fragile psyche, and go right ahead, but to paraphrase (without going back to look at it) my initial reaction a few pages back... this is far worse than the 18-1 season

What more fitting punishment for the insufferable Pats fan than for him to see his beloved team leader turn into a verified lying bastard on the national stage?

Sports eh?
( Last edited by sek929; May 6, 2015 at 08:30 PM. )

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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 7, 2015, 12:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
All because he demanded to have his game balls filled with slightly less air than allowed.
Then he IS a cheater, and those people are right. Not that there aren't other cheaters in the game, of course there are, but they aren't Tom ****ing Brady, either. Because, ethics aside, he is one of the 3 best QBs to ever play the game.
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May 7, 2015, 12:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
What more fitting punishment for the insufferable Pats fan than for him to see his beloved team leader turn into a verified lying bastard on the national stage?
That's why I'm not taking you to task on this, one of my employees is a huge Pats fan and he nearly cried when he heard the official news and read the report. It really tore him up that Brady (one of his idols) knowingly cheated, lied to everyone, and then tried to cover it all up. He feels hurt and betrayed and there's no reason for me to needle him and make it worse.
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May 7, 2015, 11:58 AM
 
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May 11, 2015, 07:01 PM
 
Four games?
Tom Brady suspended without pay for 4 games of regular season
The National Football League suspended New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for four regular season games without pay "for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the NFL," the league announced Monday afternoon.
The league also announced that the team—which won the Super Bowl earlier this year—would be fined $1 million and forced to forfeit its first-round pick in the 2016 draft and its fourth-round selection in the 2017 draft.
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sek929  (op)
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May 11, 2015, 07:07 PM
 
That will completely fall apart under appeal, and is outrageous to begin with.

I'm still confident in my one game prediction once this all works itself out.

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May 11, 2015, 08:18 PM
 
It's......pretty fair to be honest.
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sek929  (op)
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May 11, 2015, 08:49 PM
 
The rules surrounding tampering of a football set a 25k fine, not 1/4 of the season suspension.

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ShortcutToMoncton
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May 11, 2015, 09:58 PM
 
But it's a conspiracy. Brady literally had multiple employees engaged in tampering for him personally. And then he came out and not only lied about it all - he left them holding the bag, lol.

A $25k fine would be ludicrous.
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sek929  (op)
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May 11, 2015, 11:19 PM
 
Roger Goodell Is A Shit-Eating Moron

This is how Sean Payton found himself out of the league for a YEAR strictly for the crime of “ignorance” during Bountygate ... a satellite offense so far removed from the original crime as to be applicable to your grandma as well.
Basically this is the reason a 4 game fine is insane. Coming from an avid hater of the Patriots.

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May 12, 2015, 07:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
But it's a conspiracy. Brady literally had multiple employees engaged in tampering for him personally. And then he came out and not only lied about it all - he left them holding the bag, lol.

A $25k fine would be ludicrous.
Yeah, absolute pocket change for Brady, it would be the same as an avg person being fined $25 ($38M compared to $38k). Given the depth of collusion, lying, and investigation tampering, I believe he got off light. Especially since the equipment guys who followed his orders were outright fired.
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May 12, 2015, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Roger Goodell Is A Shit-Eating Moron



Basically this is the reason a 4 game fine is insane. Coming from an avid hater of the Patriots.
With all due respect, this completely misses the point:

Brady’s crime isn’t that he doctored balls, it’s that he didn’t SUBMIT.
Brady’s crime is that he first involved multiple fellow employees in a long-standing shadow conspiracy to doctor balls a near-insignificant amount...and then that he did his absolute best to lie about it both to the NFL and to the public, cover up or hide details of his involvement, and not only refused to cooperate with NFL investigators but possibly/likely conspired with fellow accuseds to stymie the investigation.
I mean...it's both a fact of life and law that a punishment is always greater when it turns out you have deliberately been bald-faced lying and willfully covering up the entire time.
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May 12, 2015, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yeah, absolute pocket change for Brady, it would be the same as an avg person being fined $25 ($38M compared to $38k). Given the depth of collusion, lying, and investigation tampering, I believe he got off light. Especially since the equipment guys who followed his orders were outright fired.
And by fired...you mean, of course:

"The report identified two Patriots employees -- officials' locker room attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski -- as the ones who executed the plan. The Patriots suspended both indefinitely last week. Neither can be reinstated without the approval of the NFL, the league said."

There hasn't been a final outcome of their employment.
     
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May 12, 2015, 10:05 AM
 
I'm pretty sure, the 4 game was meant to get the appeal juices flowing anyway. An arbitrator will get it down to 3 which only means the first month of the season (September)...as Week 4 is their bye week. So, he will be prepped for Dallas in Week 5.

Similar to how a pitcher will get 5 games, so it only boils down to "their next start". Same but different. Not sure how to express it. Just enough punishment to make it mean something.
     
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May 12, 2015, 11:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by residentEvil View Post
And by fired...you mean, of course:

"The report identified two Patriots employees -- officials' locker room attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski -- as the ones who executed the plan. The Patriots suspended both indefinitely last week. Neither can be reinstated without the approval of the NFL, the league said."

There hasn't been a final outcome of their employment.
Okay, then "laid-off without pay for the rest of their lives". That better?
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May 12, 2015, 04:48 PM
 
At first glance, when you look at this list of NFL suspensions for those that involve 4 games this seems excessive for Brady's offense. But I read somewhere earlier that essentially Brady got a 2 game suspension for the "crime" and another 2 game suspension for the "coverup" and non-cooperation with the investigation. So when you look at it like that ...

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May 12, 2015, 05:13 PM
 
double post
     
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May 12, 2015, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
At first glance, when you look at this list of NFL suspensions for those that involve 4 games this seems excessive for Brady's offense. But I read somewhere earlier that essentially Brady got a 2 game suspension for the "crime" and another 2 game suspension for the "coverup" and non-cooperation with the investigation. So when you look at it like that ...

OAW
The commentators said that ~10min ago on Fox Sports.
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sek929  (op)
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May 12, 2015, 10:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by residentEvil View Post
Similar to how a pitcher will get 5 games, so it only boils down to "their next start". Same but different. Not sure how to express it. Just enough punishment to make it mean something.
Not really, 1/4 of the season would translate to about 7 starts for a healthy MLB pitcher.

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May 14, 2015, 04:10 PM
 
I'm thinking Brady might want to skip an appeal and just take his lumps. He should issue a simple statement acknowledging he made a "mistake" by thinking his actions didn't cross the line from "competitive advantage" into "cheating" territory. And express a desire to put this matter behind him and pledge to never make the same "mistake" again. Just saying ....

Almost 70% of football fans believe Tom Brady is a cheater | For The Win

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May 14, 2015, 05:18 PM
 
As time goes by, I'm becoming more sympathetic *shudder* to Tom Brady.

There's no way he invested this much time figuring out exactly how to lose a few micro-pounds of PSI. If he actually is that devious, then my mind is blown. Roger Goodell always picks the worst times and the worst cases to prove how tough he is (or in the case of beating women senseless in elevators, isn't).
     
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May 14, 2015, 05:21 PM
 
Speaking of devious, Belicheck got out untouched, didn't he?
     
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May 14, 2015, 05:28 PM
 
As a Giants fan, this is delicious.

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sek929  (op)
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May 14, 2015, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I'm thinking Brady might want to skip an appeal and just take his lumps. He should issue a simple statement acknowledging he made a "mistake" by thinking his actions didn't cross the line from "competitive advantage" into "cheating" territory. And express a desire to put this matter behind him and pledge to never make the same "mistake" again. Just saying ....

Almost 70% of football fans believe Tom Brady is a cheater | For The Win

OAW
Of those 70% who thought he was a cheater because of spygate? Who thought he was a fraud because of the tuck rule? I have some shocking news for you, even before ballghazi a large percentage of football fans hated Tom Brady, crazy I know.

Tom Brady will easily "win" his appeal based on the complete lack of any evidence in the Wells report, either halving his suspension or all but wiping it out, and will get back to the business of winning games come fall.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
As time goes by, I'm becoming more sympathetic *shudder* to Tom Brady.

There's no way he invested this much time figuring out exactly how to lose a few micro-pounds of PSI. If he actually is that devious, then my mind is blown. Roger Goodell always picks the worst times and the worst cases to prove how tough he is (or in the case of beating women senseless in elevators, isn't).
This is a speeding ticket level infraction being treated as a sports felony. Goodell does not have long as comish, expect the legal retribution from this to be major. Before Ballghazi nobody, including the NFL, really cared about the pressure in footballs. Thanks to a completely silent head office the two weeks before the SB the media was allowed to go completely buck wild and crucify the greatest QB of our time for what could be interpreted as "gamesmanship."

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Speaking of devious, Belicheck got out untouched, didn't he?
He sure did. Of course I"m biased but BB has far better things to do than get involved in how Tom Brady wants his game balls, being the best head coach in the league and a shrewd GM probably eats up most of his time.

Originally Posted by starman View Post
As a Giants fan, this is delicious.
In all fairness you've haven't had much to root for since '10 so that's understandable.

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The Final Dakar
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May 14, 2015, 06:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Of those 70% who thought he was a cheater because of spygate? Who thought he was a fraud because of the tuck rule? I have some shocking news for you, even before ballghazi a large percentage of football fans hated Tom Brady, crazy I know.
My first thought as well.Also, let's see those numbers in a years time.



Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
He sure did. Of course I"m biased but BB has far better things to do than get involved in how Tom Brady wants his game balls, being the best head coach in the league and a shrewd GM probably eats up most of his time.
I think you have enough time to know how your star QB likes his footballs.
     
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May 14, 2015, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
In all fairness you've haven't had much to root for since '10 so that's understandable.
Ooh, tough

And who did we beat in 2012? That's right - the Pats.

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May 14, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
"Lack of evidence in the Wells report"? What the actual f*ck? Those texts, including evidence of specified payoffs in goods, aren't enough?
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May 14, 2015, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"Lack of evidence in the Wells report"? What the actual f*ck? Those texts, including evidence of specified payoffs in goods, aren't enough?
Modern PR. Deny, deny, deny. And unless its 100% concrete, deny some more.
     
sek929  (op)
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May 14, 2015, 07:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"Lack of evidence in the Wells report"? What the actual f*ck? Those texts, including evidence of specified payoffs in goods, aren't enough?
Easy there, don't blow a gasket. I'm assuming you've haven't been following along with the recent NFL appeals, in which the league is pretty much batting zero. There is no way the 4 game suspension stands up against the appeal process because the evidence is weak, I've already stated I believe something shady was going on, the discussion has moved to the appeals process.

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May 14, 2015, 09:36 PM
 
Come on. The evidence is weak because Brady would not cooperate. This wasn't a criminal matter; his phone records aren't being demanded by a judge. In these circumstances the evidence is extremely good I would say.
     
sek929  (op)
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May 14, 2015, 10:13 PM
 
While it's true a large part of the NFL punishment has to do with Brady's non-compliance, that will not hold up under appeal in the least.

Adrian Peterson successfully appealed his ban, and there were pictures of his whipped son. The evidence against Brady is nearly non-existent. "more probably than not" he was "generally aware" is an awfully weak statement, the appeal process will expose that.

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May 14, 2015, 11:56 PM
 
Rodger Goodell has named himself as arbitrator.

Much fairness, so arbitrate.

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May 15, 2015, 01:13 AM
 


Honestly: is 2015 his last year?
     
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May 15, 2015, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Honestly: is 2015 his last year?
No way. If the Ray Rice fiasco didn't eliminate him, nothing will. Hell, they just got rid of tax-exempt status so they can hide his salary. Until he starts pissing off owners instead of players, he's safe.
     
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May 15, 2015, 03:34 PM
 
I know the only things that are going to change the owners' perception of Goodell are...

1. Butts in the seats.
2. Ratings.
3. Endorsement dollars.

I do think that we're going to see all three impacted. Maybe not this year, but within the next five.
     
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May 19, 2015, 03:13 PM
 
It would appear Mr. Kraft is eager to change the subject.

Owner Robert Kraft won't appeal Patriots' Deflategate penalties

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May 19, 2015, 11:26 PM
 
That means a deal to lessen Brady's sentence is in the works, despite the fact he's the one solely responsible for cheating. Well, him and his "lackeys". It's pathetic.
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May 20, 2015, 09:56 AM
 
Yep, sure sign of a deal. But everyone expected something like that was coming anyway.

And let's face it, he'd pay that and more for a Super Bowl.
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May 21, 2015, 01:07 PM
 
The outrage seems completely overblown when you ask, "Did the balls actually make a freaking difference?"

Lessen it to one game and be done with it.
     
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May 21, 2015, 06:17 PM
 
Some things to remember.

ESPN did a Sports Science segment where they tested balls at 2 psi lower than minimum spec which, by the way, none of the Patriots balls tested at halftime were that low...only the incorrect Chris Mortensen tweet set the value at 2. They found a QB could compress the ball an extra 1 millimeter, 1 millimeter...

Secondly, if we are to go by referee Walt Anderson's best recollection of what the balls started at (they were never recorded) and which gauge he used, all of the Patriots balls would fall squarely within the Ideal Gas Law's natural deflation values. This is why the Wells report itself said it was inconclusive whether or not any of the balls used in the AFCCG were actually tampered with. It's more probable than not they started at 12.5 and simply lost pressure naturally, this is also why 3 out of the 4 Colts balls tested were also below minimum spec.

Lastly, the idea that every football game we've watched has been played with balls strictly between 12.5 and 13.5 psi is ludicrous. Every game played in cold weather has used under-inflated balls and many games have used over-inflated balls. The notion that Tom Brady has gained any sort of competitive advantage over the years thanks to a ball that can be compressed less than one millimeter is outrageous.

None of this matters of course, because once again the Patriots were caught breaking a rule so insignificant that no sports fan even realized it existed until they were told the Patriots broke it, in which case it becomes the worst offense in league history.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 21, 2015, 09:33 PM
 
It wasn't just one game, however, you can bet the farm on that.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 21, 2015, 09:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
None of this matters of course, because once again the Patriots were caught breaking a rule so insignificant that no sports fan even realized it existed until they were told the Patriots broke it, in which case it becomes the worst offense in league history.
Incorrect, I was completely aware there was a rule regarding ball inflation, and if I was (and I'm not the biggest fan of professional football), I'm sure a not-so-insignificant number of others were as well. There's no reason to use such hyperbole.
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May 22, 2015, 09:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
None of this matters of course, because once again the Patriots were caught breaking a rule so insignificant that no sports fan even realized it existed until they were told the Patriots broke it, in which case it becomes the worst offense in league history.
As I mentioned earlier, it's the rule-breaking that is the most insignificant part of all this. You're completely correct that the offence itself is merely gamesmanship - technically an illegal act, in practice just one of a hundred little technically-illegal things teams do every game to get a psychological edge.

In my view, it's the other part that deserves the punishment. What seems to be a fairly significant cover-up and straight-out lying to the NFL and the public about what happened. Events that only a devout Pats/Brady believer wouldn't believe to be arguably the greatest QB in football history cooperating with team employees, and then using his status to influence their story and/or cooperation in the subsequent media scandal.

In retrospect - yeah, they should have owned it. They should have said "yeah, we do this before every game, and so do many other teams, too" - and volunteered to pay whether fine the NFL imposed.

But they didn't. They chose to lie instead; and then a formal investigation was done and they got caught. And that's what they should be paying for, in my opinion.
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sek929  (op)
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May 22, 2015, 05:32 PM
 
I don't disagree with any of that, but if accepting the blame immediately meant Brady missing the SB then I would say he still made the right call in the long run.

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