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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Gaming > Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild: Complaining

Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild: Complaining
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subego
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Mar 28, 2020, 11:58 AM
 
It took a long time, but I’ve finally come around to the conclusion Breath of the Wild is fantastic. It breaks a ton of really crummy conventions, and I didn’t realize at first it’s offering something better.
     
andi*pandi
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Mar 31, 2020, 12:12 PM
 
There's a lot to like about BotW. However, comparing it to another game I love, Horizon Zero Dawn, a few things are annoying:

weapons: breakage in the middle of a fight isn't cool. Finding the seed guy and upgrading your weapon stash size is helpful though.

arrow crafting: can we just make these? scounging for arrows is boring.

food crafting: takes so darn long, yes it's cute, yes you can skip, but I wish once you discovered a recipe you could just make it again by selecting it.

aiming and movement: the joycons still feel so tiny in the hand, and the stick toggle for aiming a bow is not as sensitive and smooth (twss, I know) as the playstation controllers. We shut off the aiming using the tilt sensor because that was also fussy as heck.

Don't get me started on the robots that can't be killed.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Apr 2, 2020 at 07:22 AM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 1, 2020, 08:46 PM
 
Sadly, the foodcraft can't be redeemed. In addition to needing a management system, it has very little depth. By far the biggest strike against the game.

This may be a dumb question, but are you using just the tilt sensor for precise aiming? Either the game didn’t make it clear, or I missed it, but it took hours for me to realize that’s how it works. Once I did, aiming went from horrible to so good it kinda blew my mind.

All the other things you mentioned are exactly the type of things I hated but have come around to thinking are awesome. Most games in this genre have a similar set of underlying “game mechanics”. BotW completely rewrites those game mechanics, and it’s painful to play at first because of it. To use a geeky analogy, it’s like trying to learn a new edition of D&D without being given the rules, or even being told the rules have changed.

The biggest change in the “rules”, of which the unkillable robot is an extreme example, is combat has no value in and of itself. It doesn’t help you level up, the loot is crummy, you mess up your weapons, and monsters don’t even stay dead. It’s just a drain on your resources. Most other games of this type aren’t like this at all, and the change requires a completely different set of strategies.
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 2, 2020, 07:52 AM
 
We shut off the tilt sensing since it seemed very fussy. Now what I do to aim is walk.

If you are right about combat being meaningless, then we can just avoid it all.. except I think at some point we will have to kill the unkillable machines. Right now I'm at a temple attempting to learn attack moves and have burnt through all my weapons. Recently I did get to sell all my lousy monster horns and amber to get a nifty cloak though.

How bout them stone giants? Beatable, or just run away very fast?

I'm considering one of these $20 adapters so I can use the PS4 controller, which might make a difference ergonomically. Plus not needing to buy more joycons for mario kart.
https://smile.amazon.com/Wireless-Co.../dp/B07B7LMM52
since that adapter only counts for one 1/2, might be better to just get another controller for $30?
https://smile.amazon.com/Wireless-Co.../dp/B0822S41MD
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 2, 2020, 10:51 PM
 
Roughly, the only times I feel you should get into combat are because a...

Quest requires it.
Monster is in the way (you can almost always climb around them).
Monster has weapons worth stealing.
Monster is a skeleton (easy kill).

The other 95% of the time it’s not worth it. Just run away. Haven’t even tried to kill the stone giant.

It’s only slightly unfair to call BotW a stealth game.


I remember that shrine. It ate up almost all my weapons. Know that there are puh-lenty of shrines. Skip the ones you don’t like and come back later.


One last dumb question... do you have the joycons in that holder thingy, or are you using one in each hand?
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 3, 2020, 09:01 AM
 
In the holder. didn't even occur to me to try one in each hand!

My early attempts to kill the stone giant with bombs were somewhat promising, but too slow. I was able to blast it's arms off but they regenerate too quickly. Perhaps you are meant to just get to the chest on its back? It would be somewhat annoying to go through the effort only to find amber.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 3, 2020, 10:20 PM
 
Oh... it’s good you didn’t try one in each hand.

That was the only thing I could think of making it not work. I don’t know what the deal is. It’s totally awesome on this end. Before I started using the tilt sensor I did the walk to aim thing, too... which is awful.

On the subject of arrows, you mentioned having to scrounge them up. This is another example of something I hated. It’s a game mechanic which actively sucks out the fun. It had me hoarding arrows. Hoarding arrows isn’t fun, shooting them is fun.

Turns out this was another place where the game rewrites the rules. The game mechanic they came up with is 99% shooting and 1% concern over supply. It overwhelmingly prioritizes the fun part, so it’s a great mechanic, and I love it.

The problem is it makes no real-world sense, so knowledge of the real world not only doesn’t help figuring it out, it actively hinders it. Even worse is there are other game mechanics which lead you in the wrong direction. I’d say I was at least halfway through the game before it finally clicked.

So, you can try to figure it out, which for me was ultimately an enjoyable experience despite the painful part, or...

 
( Last edited by subego; Apr 3, 2020 at 11:37 PM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 5, 2020, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So, you can try to figure it out, which for me was ultimately an enjoyable experience despite the painful part, or...

 
Being able to teleport to villages with stores does help. And I've chosen to avoid more monsters when possible. I do delight in rolling a bomb into camp though.

Speaking of throwing the rules out the window, I encountered a shrine yesterday with a marble maze. No problem, I think, I know what to do here. After watching me mess it up a few times, my daughter claimed the controller and proceeded to... turn the entire maze upside down so it was a flat surface, no walls, no maze. Did this have it's own challenges? yes. But ultimately easier. I never would have tried that because I never would have imagined game devs allowing that cheat.

We are now chasing memories.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 5, 2020, 11:08 PM
 
That’s hilarious!

I did turn it upside-down just to see what would happen, but it never occurred to me to keep it that way.


I started an arrow run near the end of my gaming day and got about 2/3rds the way through. I’m late enough in the game that it took forever, but part of that was buttoning-up quests, and cooking meat to sell. I still have about 10 more stops, and my current arrow count is 345.
     
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Apr 5, 2020, 11:25 PM
 
That's a ton! No need to chase after every one you shoot! (or dance just out of range of goblins trying to hit you with arrows just to get their arrows).
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 6, 2020, 12:44 AM
 
Final count is 620.
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 6, 2020, 05:00 PM
 
I wasted so many arrows on some kind of fire sprite. %^&er.

I think we decided against Animal Crossing. Splatoon or other multiplayer games might be next.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 6, 2020, 05:45 PM
 
I’ve tried arrowing those, but they’re really squirrelly. They’re weak in melee, so assuming I feel strong enough to get fireballed a few times, I move into close range. One hit and they’re usually stunned for long enough that it’s all over for them.

I’m probably going to get AC after I finish Zelda, and I’ll report back. FWIW, AC is by the same dev team as Splatoon.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 7, 2020, 12:26 AM
 
Oh... one thing I keep forgetting to mention about Zelda. You may have figured this out, but it’s another thing which took me forever.

There’s a load screen tip which is very poorly worded. The one which talks about how one effect from food or a potion cancels out another.

This is only true for the ones with timed effects, such as cold resistance, or better defense.

The ones which increase hearts or stamina stay until they run out.

In other words, you can have three effects going at once. Increased hearts, increased stamina, and one of anything remaining.

I thought it was just one effect period, and it made things a lot tougher.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 11, 2020, 09:54 AM
 
Finally hit the Zelda wall.

It made a good showing. I’d say I’m 80% of the way through. It’s usually closer to 50%.

This is generally the case with me and this type of game. I can’t put it down in the beginning, when the boundaries of the game seem limitless, but find it less and less compelling as I bump into the edges.

Also, as great as the game is otherwise (not you, foodcraft), the main story left me a little cold.
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 11, 2020, 01:30 PM
 
My daughter and I are still probably at the 20% mark in our respective games. Yesterday I spent a good deal of time battling monsters and blowing up trees. Whyever did I agree to buy a house? She has mastered the art of shield-blasting robots, I have not.

If it turns out that
 

I will be so annoyed.

last year we had to stop Horizon Zero Dawn because of a boss-level that seemed unbeatable. Gave it one more shot recently and it was back where we started, great game. Sometimes a break helps.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 11, 2020, 02:08 PM
 
I’m not expecting what’s in the spoiler, but I was going to add on to my complaint about the main story that I don’t like Zelda herself much.
     
andi*pandi
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May 1, 2020, 04:35 PM
 
Does the map even follow our earth standard NSEW? I tend to just set the goal blinking and walk towards it.

After wandering in an area with no map for too long, not finding a tower in the akkala region, I headed back to the hyrule center and tackled some towers closer to there. One surrounded by robots I had noped out of previously, but with a little effort (and several broken shields) I was able to destroy them all and get the tower. Stealth armor earned its keep. The nonwalkers can be crept up on and sworded, or normal arrows if you have a good angle you can't be blasted from.

Then I found one that was surrounded by lightning sprite dudes. Discovered freeze arrows work well but did not have enough so I noped. Then found one surrounded by swamp. Obviously they wanted you to build a path with metal boxes, but after 10 minutes of fiddling with it I gave up and flew in.

It's a big damn world.
(considering making a zelda thread of its own... sound good?)
     
subego  (op)
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May 1, 2020, 05:25 PM
 
Oh... I’ll Zelda talk your ear off.
     
subego  (op)
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May 2, 2020, 03:34 AM
 
On one hand, you’re absolutely right about NSEW not having to match on some other world, and I didn’t even think about that possibility.

On the other hand, if the language of this other world is going to get translated into English, it should match English conventions.


I’ve been a total wuss when it comes to Guardians. I’ve only killed two. One in the required shrine. Even the Minor Tests of Strength I haven’t done yet. With that tower, I used a triple-strength speed potion, and could get to cover before they could lock on.

Similarly, with the zappy-zippy tower, I triple-strength electrical resistance potioned it, even though those ingredients are rare.

By swamp, do you mean black goo?
     
andi*pandi
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May 2, 2020, 04:16 PM
 
I need to stock up on zappy potions and ice arrows. I've also not really explored making potions, as my first attempts ended with bad food. I have got the hang of a few good cooking recipes though.

swamp: Brown quicksand you sink/instantly drown in.

Last night I hunted down the Korok forest, I had all these seeds and was tired of running out of weapon stash room.
 


Perhaps zelda is not a 3am game.
     
subego  (op)
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May 3, 2020, 04:30 AM
 
The Korok Forest was hugely irritating. First, just finding the general area. That was process of elimination for me. It was the only place left it could reasonably be. It really sucked having so few weapon slots for so long.

Second was getting in. I’m not actually sure how I got through. Lots of analysis of the hero’s path and using stars on the map got me closer and closer, but at some point I’d just make a break for it, and one of those worked.

One thing I love about the Korok is how, well... Japanese they look. This considering how each Korok face is just a few lines.

Along those lines, I love how a bunch of the grunts used at the beginning of dialogue throughout the game are clearly Japanese grunts, and not English.



Total memory lapse. I forgot about the swamp tower, and both my triple-strength potions were actually meals.
     
subego  (op)
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May 3, 2020, 06:10 AM
 
Other random comments...

Yo dawg, I hear you like bloom lighting, so we put some bloom lighting in with your bloom lighting.

Can’t stand the horses. Got a horse at Dueling Peaks (named Daisy), got the friendship up to 100, put her in the stable, never used again.

My favorite spot to weapon-up for half the game was the shrine with the swirl of spikes around it.

There’s some pervy shit, like, out of nowhere. Maybe I’m the perv and projecting.

I feel totally let down by the cooking.

Glowing stuff at night looks so awesome.

I wonder what life would be like if we had random dragons flying all over the place.

I already mentioned Zelda herself is annoying, but it bears repeating.

I don’t trust that resurrection thingy... never used it once. Would always go back to the last save if it kicked in. I’ve been thinking recently how I game like I’ve been in an abusive relationship with games. I assume something like the resurrection token is meant to lull me into a sense of security, then it’ll get yanked. Games don’t do that as much now, but I played a bunch when that kind of treatment was standard. Another example is I hoard. Too many games where I’m hours and hours in, and the game suddenly throws at you that such and such an item has a finite supply. Good luck getting through the rest of the game without it. Zelda was actually really good about this, but still ran afoul of it a bit by making voltfins and electric saffina so rare. They’re not finite at least, but you still can’t use them willy-nilly, like you can with say, your armored porgy or blue nightshade.


Edit: Link totally passes.

Edit2: I really liked operating at night. Not the case in most games. I could kinda see better than in the day. Obviously the case with the loot twinkles. The speed boost was nice, too. Do you have the DLC?

Edit3: related to two, I was almost always in full stealth armor. If stuff got past my bow I’d switch. A fast armor change would have been nice.

Edit4: A fish beaching itself to escape me never gets old.

Edit5: Stop trying to make hearty truffle happen. It’s not going to happen.
( Last edited by subego; May 3, 2020 at 08:33 AM. )
     
andi*pandi
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May 8, 2020, 03:34 PM
 
Yiga clan base. Spent a lot of time dying before realizing the game wants you to sneak past them all. Which seems, even with stealth armor, like a stretch. The bananas don't really help, although watching the yiga tippytoe up to them is adorable. Adorable death. Thought at first the bananas would be a distraction for a strike from above... nope. You can't single-strike them.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; May 8, 2020 at 03:50 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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May 9, 2020, 02:53 AM
 
That mission was bad all around. Probably the worst in the game. Not allowing you to save is just flat-out lazy design.

It was very pretty though, and the walk through that long cave at the beginning built up tension well.

I tried putting an apple in every frog, but nothing happened. I assume I missed one.

I like the dualie bows, but it feels like a waste of arrows.

I ended up getting to the boss by accident. I whiffed my backwards jump off the wall on to the ceiling ropes and landed on the floor. Had just enough time to sneak out before a guard turned around.


Edit: theres a fundamental verisimilitude issue with killable bosses who have unkillable underlings.
( Last edited by subego; May 9, 2020 at 04:26 AM. )
     
andi*pandi
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May 11, 2020, 12:45 PM
 
There was one magical round where it seemed I had killed them all, and just as I was going back for the prisoner, one suddenly appeared. That's when I gave up on attacks. Finally finished it last night. After all that it seemed much easier than I was making it, and you were right about the boss battle. Although I wasted too many arrows before realizing he wasn't taking any more damage and I needed to change tactics.

After that it felt nice to explore and do a basic shrine... fire and ice, that I again made harder than it needed to be. who knew you could just toss ice through fire easy peasy?!?
     
subego  (op)
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May 11, 2020, 03:58 PM
 
I did the same with that boss!

I don’t remember all the details of that shrine, but I do remember at least one hurdle keeping me stumped for awhile.
     
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May 14, 2020, 01:58 PM
 
Should I go back for the prisoner now? Hmm.

So my kid gets a turn to play last night. Before her big battle with the ruta/water spirit, she goes scurrying for spirit orbs to up her hearts. She finds 2 incredibly easy shrines in the middle of the map, which I somehow completely missed. Also one is right next to our friend the korok seed dancer so she can upgrade her weapon spots without wandering the $%^&*( foggy lost forest.

Of course she easily defeats the water spirit without dying once. She offers that she learned so much watching me die over and over...

Shut up kid.
     
subego  (op)
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May 14, 2020, 02:26 PM
 
I hadn’t discovered yet you could have a “hearty” and an “armored” buff at the same time when I fought the Ruta, so I only had armored. Hadn’t even tried hearty. Couldn’t see the point. I also was trying to be disciplined, and alternate between hearts and stamina, so it’s not like I had a lot of hearts to begin with.

That made things extraordinary difficult. I managed not dying, but came very close, and used up all my zappy arrows. They seemed very hard to get, and I no idea if they actually caused more damage.

To quote Mr. Horse, I didn’t like it. Because of that, I haven’t fought any of the other Divine Beasts. I’ve basically worked the three others until one mission before the big fight.

I’m sure they’ll be easier with both hearty and armored buffs, as well as the extra hearts I have (got enough stamina a few level-ups ago), but I’m still not in a huge rush to do them.

Especially the camel, because I feel like I have to do horseback riding like things.


(Shooting the arrows at the Ruta in bullet time was fun)
     
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May 22, 2020, 11:05 PM
 
Yesterday I chose to avoid fighting the camel by exploring the furthest reaches of the desert, on foot, because sand seals are tricky to catch. I fought the giant sand fishes, found a fairy fountain, and again found a tricky shrine to defeat, a maze that looked easy but wasn't. Found another shrine but someone was blocking the access panel and needed a drink!

The earth fairy couldn't update my desert armor.
     
subego  (op)
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May 22, 2020, 11:40 PM
 
But the camel has come from far, to bring you rugs for your home, which is near.
     
subego  (op)
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May 23, 2020, 08:37 PM
 
Is the fairy fountain at that southwestern oasis? I only got to the rock outcropping part of the way there, and used it to pepper the sandworm molduga with bomb arrows. I started to make my way to the oasis, but then another molduga came at me and I noped out.

I did the maze, but I don’t think I found the shrine you’re talking about.

I also still have all the platforms to check out on the east side of the desert. Too many zappy dudes when I went through the first time. I just raced to the tower, and then paraglided most of the way to that halfway oasis.
     
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May 24, 2020, 03:04 PM
 
On the map, the fairy fountain is way southwest near something like Dragon's Last Whatever. There are 3 molduga battles and some pretty good treasure chests out thataway. If only sand seals didn't wander off...
     
subego  (op)
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May 25, 2020, 09:04 AM
 
Just one of the little details in this game. Yanking chests out of the ground is, I dunno... just fun.
     
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May 28, 2020, 04:56 PM
 
I've been exploring the edges of the map and doing minor challenges. The last fairy wants 10,000 rupees which seems impossible, and I regret selling luminous stones since they don't seem to regenerate and I need a ton to upgrade some gear. So perusing cliffs I went. Without spicy food, I ended up in the mountains and did the spring of power challenge. Very satisfying and beautiful.
     
subego  (op)
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May 28, 2020, 08:47 PM
 
Have you gone to Death Mountain? I think there are some there.

You can also drop it into your detector (if you haven’t already).

I’m not positive, but I do think it respwans.


My main recipes for selling were 3 apples and two beef/chicken, or two boko teeth, two boko horns, and a firefly. You should be able to find effectively unlimited amounts of these items.
     
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Jun 8, 2020, 10:58 PM
 
Stones do appear to respawn.

Watched the kid do Death Mountain, it looked fun. The big bad battle we both agreed was easier than the elephant. Possible factors: our experience, better weapons, more hearts/stamina... but also it was much shorter start to finish. The story seemed to lead you to do Ruta first, right? As much as you have freedom to do whatever, you are directed east to K village to start. And after if you explore near there you find all those convenient people on towers and bridges saying you should go to the Zora.... Is there an intended order? Elephant, Lizard, Camel, Bird? Bird, Camel?

I will do the Camel soon for comparison. I've been stockpiling shock food.

Found the 8th heroine, someplace remote.

BTW lynels are really hard to kill, and do not drop much loot. I have barbarian armor to upgrade but not sure it's worth the bomb arrows...
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 9, 2020, 01:17 PM
 
My guess is it’s supposed to be elephant-camel-lizard-bird.

In hindsight, the best place to go after the elephant is south. Lake Hyrule, the jungle, and the beach are relatively easy. At least compared to Akkala, which is where I went. Jungle also has mighty bananas and hearty durian, which I see as two of the most valuable ingredients.

Since you’re already down there, the camel makes the most sense. At that point, it would be a toss-up between the lizard and the bird, but they push you toward the lizard with the Tarrey Town mission to find a Goron, and the lizard is easier to get to.
     
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Jul 5, 2020, 08:27 PM
 
Finally did the camel, and it was much easier than expected. So too the bird. I can't blame it all on upgrades or skill... there just seemed to be less complicated steps to get into the beast?

The kid and I are both postponing our last boss, and fully exploring the map. This is both fun seeing new places, and drudgery to climb hills. The northern shrines are trickier to find. Tunnels, hidden entrances, etc . I find myself missing the people in the cities, even boring chitchat. Parallel to life?

Major tests of Strength are now almost easy, but despite upgraded armor and guardian weapons, lynels still are the hardest monster to kill.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Jul 5, 2020 at 08:41 PM. )
     
   
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