[passmaster16]

Originally posted by ender2002:
are we going to be seeing any speed improvements? (non-hardware related)

Yeah this is what I want to know, especially for $129. Yeah 10.3 has some nice features but my main gripe is still the general speed. As much as I like the G5, I just don't have the cash, nor can I justify dumping my dual 867 to get one. I suppose I would personally prefer a few less features if it meant more optimization. All in all, this was a great WWDC, but I'd definately say that Jag was a much bigger update than what Panther will be. Like somebody already mentioned, the Jag presentation last year had a bunch of stuff and a lot of new technologies like Quartz extreme, Rendezvous, etc. Obviously we can't expect numerous technology enhancements every year, but does this mean they are going to a M$ style marketing strategy..basically release a similar product with a few extra features and market it as new and cutting edge? Hopefully I'm wrong and they just decided to highlight the new technologies in today's keynote and will have some performance increases in 10.3. Even 10.2 gave performance increases on older machines. I would hope that trend continues.

On the issue of the finder, I didn't recall Steve actually mentioning it was faster. He mentioned about the faster file searching and the new layout, but he never made any reference to how the finder either gets very slow or locks up when browsing a large amount of files. Did I miss something here?

[entrox]

Originally posted by Millenium:
The AIM client does not support the ICQ protocol. Rather, they've been changing the ICQ protocol to use the same protocol as AIM.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm just a little frustrated because nobody I know is on AIM, but rather on ICQ and I'd really like to have an iSight.

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
I should make this some sort of rant, and aside from wanting shelf functionality for that source column, I'm hoping they are adding more Dock menu commands like "close," and spring-loaded folder contents in the Dock, plus smart folders or piles, and saved searches.

Don't hope. Submit feedback. That's what the feedback thingie is meant for.

[Kate]

This is what I posted to Apples feedback site a minute ago. I suggest everybody having problems with Apples GUI posts there as well.

"I'd like to point out that with each release of new Apple software (recent Safari, iChat etc.) the GUI elements of the application and GUI elements of Aqua tend to mismatch more and more. This is not only a question of (Apple)-style, but also affects ease of use.
Since we all now saw the preview of the pending Panther release it was evident, that in case the presented GUI features will be similar to what will be in the final release, the GUI and interface experience will even more dramatically decrease in future.
There are many discussions in online forums where these issues are brought up and the general census seems to see the GUI inconsistencies as a major issue which affects ease of use, general useability and damages the overall experience of Aqua.
Since Apple was famous for beeing able to set up unique types of style and design and combining these with the most advanced, well designed, user friendly GUI, I would like to point out to you that during the recent developmental efforts of Mac OS X and the so called iApps all these virtues have been affected and are regarded as beeing in danger by many of Apples loyal customers including me."

[jimcpherson]

What about the dock? How come no new functionality/features?

[brainchild2b]

They are there, Apple still has 6 months development time left on this baby!

They had to get it out the door with the new core so people could start playing with it. They will fill in new features before it ships.

[ericwass]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by Panther. There're a few cute tricks but nothing that appears incredibly useful. I wonder, however, if this is not a lack of imagination on Apple's part, but rather some sort of theoretical limit of OS functionality. I'm by no means a software engineer and I honestly haven't given this tons of thought. But I wonder... given the state of technology and the general GUI / mouse / keyboard paradigm for human / computer interaction... is there all that much left to do? A computer these days has to be able to speedily launch and manage applications, enable nested filing, storage and retrieval, connect to the internet, connect to other computers, read and write removable media and enable the use of peripherals. At what point do all the bells and whistles become just that. Is Jaguar the top of the bell curve in terms of useful features? I'm curious what others think...

[SomeToast]

Originally posted by Brass:
Every new Finder window has all the most useful file sytem starting points just one click away (and customisable!). And if you don't like them being there, just hide them. Did you notice the handle to hide that pane (ie, the small dot in gap between the two panes)?

But I already have customizable starting points one click away in the Finder toolbar (viewed as text) that take up far less space. And I guess all the Finder toolbar scripts are no longer welcome either. Hiding the pane isn't an option, I doubt its contents spring to the toolbar when the pane is hidden.

Hopefully this will just be another view option and the existing Finder will still be available. I look forward to the first in-depth report (probably from Ars) on the Panther Developer Preview.

[clarkgoble]

Oh wow - I'd never seen those toolbar scripts. Cool. I had a few of those already - such as the side by side windows. But that is pretty neat.

BTW - it appears from the preview that the Finder toolbar is still there. It was just that in the preview all that was in the toolbar was the three "view" icons, the new button that is the same as a context button (easier for single mouse button users), and then the forward/back buttons. After thinking about it I suspect that the delete button and the others could still be added. (I use the delete button all the time)

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by entrox:
Don't hope. Submit feedback. That's what the feedback thingie is meant for.

Fear not, I have.

[RooneyX]

What happened to all those smart asseson this forum who talked endlessly about how wicked Piles was and how beneficial it was and how they knew what they were talking about like they actually saw it or something?

[clarkgoble]

The notion of piles came from a patent Apple filed. Further a lot of people thought that the new file system implied that Apple would use a lot of metadata. Nothing previewed included this kind of features. However one must also note that it is doubtful that everything in Panther was previewed. Still piles always were speculative, although speculation with a fair bit of support. (Actually the GUI of grouping icons seemed a tad goofy to me and I never thought that would be included)

[sahara]

The finder toolbar is still there. All your scripts and files and folders you placed in the toolbar will still show up having nothing to do with the pane on the left. One cool thing about the pane on the left being able to shrink is that it can snap to icon-only.
My gripe right now is that I *only* ever use labels in list view. Right now it seems they only work in icon view!

Edit (more): I'm testing this on an old iBook (speed is fine). Without QE, the fast user switch becomes a simple fade between desktops. Expose works fine without QE though. Also, if you show package contents on the Finder, you can edit some of the Finder windows in Interface Builder (but none of the windows that are brushed metal).

[clarkgoble]

If you have a copy can you tell us if the pane on the left is hidable?

BTW - one last rant (although by and large I'm very excited about Panther). Mail.app still has the folder list in a drawer. Bad design. Bad. It should be a pane like Entourage or Outlook. The problem with the drawer is that drawers aren't resizable. So you have this big gap that just takes up space.

[entrox]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
BTW - one last rant (although by and large I'm very excited about Panther). Mail.app still has the folder list in a drawer. Bad design. Bad. It should be a pane like Entourage or Outlook. The problem with the drawer is that drawers aren't resizable. So you have this big gap that just takes up space.

They aren't? Have you tried grabbing the very edge and moving it? How is that not resizable? Pair that with the drawer opening either on the left or right hand side of the Mail window depending on the space left, and I can't see what you're complaining about.

Or did you mean /vertically/ resizable?

[natan]

Major Problem: SYSTEM WIDE SMOOTH SCROLL?!

It's not smooth enough on my QE-enabled iBook/700, and I would really rather not have it. (Reminds me of nasty IE Windows experiences).

[JLL]

Originally posted by natan:
Major Problem: SYSTEM WIDE SMOOTH SCROLL?!

It's not smooth enough on my QE-enabled iBook/700, and I would really rather not have it. (Reminds me of nasty IE Windows experiences).

And Panther is finished?

[Moose]

Originally posted by Millennium:
A rewritten Finder is a Good Thing, if only because this should mean that the code is much cleaner. My big question is, can you keep the old view types? The current incarnation smacks just a little too much of the horrid Windows Explorer. The blind Cocoa-for-Cocoa's-Sake zealots should also be happy, since this is probably a Cocoa app now. I think this is a Good Thing, not because of any inherent superiority in Cocoa, but rather the opposite: this should have forced them to patch some of the holes currently in Cocoa.

1) The Finder is still Carbon.

2) The left pane can be pretty much eliminated by resizing it to oblivion.