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gorgonzola · Dec 22, 2002, 06:15 PM

A number of people seem to want a separate forum for theming and customization stuff (e.g. icon sets), so please vote to register whether you would like this to happen or not.

OwlBoy · 06:41 PM

Yes, but like others said, not just themes.

Call it "Mac Customization" or something.

-Owl

mrtew · Dec 22, 2002, 06:44 PM

Why would anyone vote against a seperate customization forum? (Except that the word customization looks misspelled no matter how you spell it). If you vote No please post with your reason! I haven't heard anyone say "not" to create a new one for any reason.

gator · Dec 22, 2002, 06:48 PM

Yeah, definitely need a separate forum, almost half of the current posts now are theme/system customization related.

macmike42 · Dec 22, 2002, 06:50 PM

Gorgonzola - Thank you for your attention to this matter, it is much appreciated. (Of course I voted yes.)

Zimphire · Dec 22, 2002, 06:51 PM

Theme/Icon/Desktoppic/ and customization thread. Thumbs up.

MacNN is already known for being THE forum to talk about such things. Might as well support it with it's own forum.

AKcrab · Dec 22, 2002, 06:58 PM

My "green star" post goes to a vote of YES!

TheIceMan · Dec 22, 2002, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by macmike42:
Gorgonzola - Thank you for your attention to this matter, it is much appreciated. (Of course I voted yes.)

I couldn't find a choice for "Hell Yeah!" So I voted "Yes".

Montanan · Dec 22, 2002, 07:01 PM

It's fine with me, but if you're adding forums there are probably some other topics that would be even more popular ... like an iPod forum, for example.

scaught · Dec 22, 2002, 07:13 PM

im one of the "no" votes, i just dont see a reason why they cant stay right here. theyre 3rd party software.

having said that, if others on the internet seem to think of macnn as THE place for mac theming information, then maybe a GUI customization forum would be in order.

bbxstudio · Dec 22, 2002, 07:18 PM

Yes, yes, yes - it only makes sense. Nice to have the crossover but it definitely needs doing sooner rather than later. I posted a poll with the same question a few weeks ago and the response was overwhemingly in favour of creating a dedicated MacNN 'GUI Customization' forum (even over keeping the status quo). Thanks! MacNN is such a great site =)

ajprice · Dec 22, 2002, 07:35 PM

Make it Software Modification or GUI Modification, to go with the Mac Modification hardware forum. Definitely should be split from 3rd party software though.

eno · Dec 22, 2002, 07:44 PM

"Themers" are one of the most annoying groups of Mac users.

I'd love to see them coralled into a pen of their own.

Angus_D · Dec 22, 2002, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by scaught:
im one of the "no" votes, i just dont see a reason why they cant stay right here. theyre 3rd party software.

No they're not. Let's just agree to disagree on that matter, shall we?

ARENA · Dec 22, 2002, 07:53 PM

One more vote for a MacNN Desktop Customization forum.

mrtew · Dec 22, 2002, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by eno:
"Themers" are one of the most annoying groups of Mac users.

I'd love to see them coralled into a pen of their own.

Oh yeah, THEMERS are the annoying ones! Yeah, that's it. You are all sugar and spice and everything nice. So charming and warm and wonderful. And it's the themers that are annoying. Yes I see now. And black is white and up is down. It all makes sense now. I guess that would make YOU a valuable member of the MacNN forums then. Suuuuuurrrrrrreeeeee.

mrbiiggy2 · Dec 22, 2002, 09:06 PM

My site aside, I don't think MacNN is the place for theming at all.

Apple Pro Underwear · Dec 22, 2002, 09:17 PM

no, because even though it is i it's correct seperate forum....

it gets a low view count/post count because people check only the macnn hotspots

lounge, their hardware (powermac/powerbook), and OSX

keep it together so i can view em all in one place

Geobunny · Dec 22, 2002, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
no, because even though it is i it's correct seperate forum....

it gets a low view count/post count because people check only the macnn hotspots

lounge, their hardware (powermac/powerbook), and OSX

keep it together so i can view em all in one place

I have to agree and say "No". Keep it all here so that everyone can view the threads - not all of us have time to keep track of each forum, I normally only have time to check this and the OS X Developer forum.

asxless · Dec 22, 2002, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by Geobunny:
I have to agree and say "No". Keep it all here so that everyone can view the threads - not all of us have time to keep track of each forum, I normally only have time to check this and the OS X Developer forum.

Get a real browser that will bookmark TABs

Seriously, this 'I only have time' argument is bogus. Forums with focused content are actually quicker to check via bookmarks or tabs. The current 3rd party software forum is a serous time waster since the few non theme 3rd party software threads are buried in the avalanche of theme threads.

asxless in iLand

BTW I voted for a separate forum

Adam Betts · Dec 22, 2002, 11:28 PM

gorgonzola, is there any way to block people who live in Palm Beach from voting? Those 9 "no" votes seem to be coming from them

I voted a separate forum even though I know it won't be as popular as it is now.

Kujo · Dec 22, 2002, 11:34 PM

Adam i dont think it matters its pretty much unanimous. this is good news

undotwa · Dec 22, 2002, 11:47 PM

I say a definite YES. Themes are not software. They are resource files. Do you call a bunch of images in a packages and a resource file a piece of software?

Atef's corpse · Dec 23, 2002, 12:26 AM

yes.

themes and their related hangers-on are crowding out os x and software.

smeger · Dec 23, 2002, 01:18 AM

I voted yes, but I'm still slightly worried that a new forum will become a ghostland. Gorgonzola, is there any way that you can share with us some sort of page view statistics for theme threads? Are a lot of lurkers reading them?

macmike42 · Dec 23, 2002, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by smeger:
I voted yes, but I'm still slightly worried that a new forum will become a ghostland. Gorgonzola, is there any way that you can share with us some sort of page view statistics for theme threads? Are a lot of lurkers reading them?

It says 'posts (views)' next to each thread. Considering the 'Milk 1.5 Preview' thread currently has 79 posts and 1082 views, I'd say we have at least a few lurkers (in addition to the obsessive page-refreshers).

mrtew · Dec 23, 2002, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by smeger:
I voted yes, but I'm still slightly worried that a new forum will become a ghostland.

Really? I am worried that THIS one will become a ghostland if most of the threads here are theme ones.

swiz · Dec 23, 2002, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by mrtew:

Really? I am worried that THIS one will become a ghostland if most of the threads here are theme ones.

Exactly, this forum was barely breathing before the themes were moved here, then the content of this forum perked up for theme and non theme topics.

smeger · Dec 23, 2002, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by macmike42:
It says 'posts (views)' next to each thread. Considering the 'Milk 1.5 Preview' thread currently has 79 posts and 1082 views, I'd say we have at least a few lurkers (in addition to the obsessive page-refreshers).

Whoops - don't I feel dumb now.

Please ignore my last post.

Moonray · Dec 23, 2002, 04:53 AM

Those who say they don't have time to browse another forum seem to have some algebraic problems. It is not that the total numbers of threads will grow and you have to read more, it makes it just easier for you to find what you're looking for because the contents gets presorted.
Or do you also want to have the whole www on a single webpage because it's easier to see what's on?

-

bOOzo · Dec 23, 2002, 05:59 AM

It seems to me that the majority want a seperate forum. What are you waiting for?!

undotwa · Dec 23, 2002, 06:12 AM

The mob has spoken...

(sung to the Simpsons Monorail Song tune)

Theme Forum!!! Theme Forum!!! Theme Forum!!!

Sharky K. · Dec 23, 2002, 06:25 AM

I get sick of all those theme post

That is why I want a theme forum

macmike42 · Dec 23, 2002, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by undotwa:
The mob has spoken...

Ahh! There's no justice like angry mob justice!

Millennium · Dec 23, 2002, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by mrtew:
Why would anyone vote against a seperate customization forum? (Except that the word customization looks misspelled no matter how you spell it). If you vote No please post with your reason! I haven't heard anyone say "not" to create a new one for any reason.

Here's one (I voted no).

There's a rather major problem with the current Software forum. Namely, the fact that people will often inappropriately post software and themeing questions in the General forum. We move them, but then the posters tend to whine that "not enough people" read the Software forum; they want more eyes on their questions, even though generally the only people who read the Software forum are the ones who know what they're doing, and more eyes isn't really likely to fix the problem.

This is nothing personal against people who don't read the Software forum, mind you. Geekdom isn't everyone's cup of tea, and that's something which ought to be respected no matter what side of the sense you're on. However, it's a problem, because we get software and themeing questions clogging up General.

By essentially splitting the Software forum in two, this problem would only be exacerbated. Speaking just from a practical standpoint, it's better to keep customization in with other software for the time being. But I see at this point that my viewpoint is outnumbered by a factor of ten to one, which makes me sad, but oh well.

Appleman · Dec 23, 2002, 11:16 AM

I voted "yes", then started to read the comments, and then wanted to vote "no".
Seems that you cannot vote twice...

Kujo · Dec 23, 2002, 12:12 PM

other communities do it, and it works out great, i am sure this mac community can get the hang of it. it WOULD bring more people here to i think.

Brien · Dec 23, 2002, 12:45 PM

Millennium makes a good point, but I still voted yes.

swiz · Dec 23, 2002, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:

Here's one (I voted no).

There's a rather major problem with the current Software forum. Namely, the fact that people will often inappropriately post software and themeing questions in the General forum. We move them, but then the posters tend to whine that "not enough people" read the Software forum; they want more eyes on their questions, even though generally the only people who read the Software forum are the ones who know what they're doing, and more eyes isn't really likely to fix the problem.

This is nothing personal against people who don't read the Software forum, mind you. Geekdom isn't everyone's cup of tea, and that's something which ought to be respected no matter what side of the sense you're on. However, it's a problem, because we get software and themeing questions clogging up General.

By essentially splitting the Software forum in two, this problem would only be exacerbated. Speaking just from a practical standpoint, it's better to keep customization in with other software for the time being. But I see at this point that my viewpoint is outnumbered by a factor of ten to one, which makes me sad, but oh well.

What about all of the people who come to maccn.com because they hear about the great forums; they look at the forum listing and dont see anything that relates to customizing OSX (other than the little blurb below the software forum)? The people who wish to customize their OSX machine want to do just that, customize it and find the methods use to do it, not search through pages of software and customization posts, just like those wanting help with software are sick of scrolling past all the theme/custmoization posts.

If macnn.com doesn't want to be the site known best for housing OSX visual tweaking than why not just say so? All this limbo could be keeping others from taking their own steps because if macc.com does enstate this new forum, that will certainly leave any other attempt by another party in the dust.

Kujo · Dec 23, 2002, 01:01 PM

yeah it took me ages to find the themes...i was looking in the art...

gorgonzola · Dec 23, 2002, 01:15 PM

Well, the results of the poll seem fairly clear, but we're still going to talk about it among ourselves to make sure it's a good idea. It seems like it's worth trying, at least.

It should be noted that if the Software or Customization forums drop in traffic to a significant extent after this split, they will be merged back together. At that point, the "fewer people see it" complaint really starts to hold water.

Also, I don't know if it's just us, but our readership seems to have a major malfunction with posting stuff in the right forum. I hope having a theme forum will help this a little bit, as I and the other OS X mods plan on being extremely tight with keeping stuff in the right forum from now on.

Anyway, we'll try out this new forum and see how it works, and if it works well, then great, but I just wanted to be clear about under what conditions we would revert to the current system.

jwblase · Dec 23, 2002, 01:19 PM

Just as we have a hardware customization forum, we should have a software customization forum.

That way, it could apply to themes, plug-ins, or any other way that the software gets customized for INDIVIDUALS.

If it's something that is available through the software (like a hidden preference), then it would belong in third party software. If it's something that people kind of hack around (like the AIM no banner hacks) then it would belong in the new forum.

I don't want the forum to be limited to themes, but rather all non-official software mods.

JB

invisibleX · Dec 23, 2002, 02:06 PM

I voted yes. I personally think that it may go to the dogs, but it really depends.

Adam Betts · Dec 23, 2002, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
It should be noted that if the Software or Customization forums drop in traffic to a significant extent after this split, they will be merged back together. At that point, the "fewer people see it" complaint really starts to hold water.

Good idea. If you've decided to merge them back together, be sure to let us know first

Gatorzx2 · Dec 23, 2002, 06:22 PM

I voted Yes. I can see how one or both of the two forums may drop to next to nothing activity but I think it might also bring a strong flow of customization activity since there is a designated place for it. Only one way to find out....

voodoo · Dec 23, 2002, 07:44 PM

Dammit YES!! Get a seperate forum for the themers.

thePurpleGiant · Dec 23, 2002, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by jwblase:
it could apply to themes, plug-ins, or any other way that the software gets customized for INDIVIDUALS.

If it's something that is available through the software (like a hidden preference), then it would belong in third party software. If it's something that people kind of hack around (like the AIM no banner hacks) then it would belong in the new forum.

I don't want the forum to be limited to themes, but rather all non-official software mods.

JB

I hate sounding negative on this issue, but I feel this will add further complications to the question of 'where to post a topic'.

Your example of AIM is a good one to prove my point. Say someone wants to know how to remove banner ads in AIM. Currently there is a 70% chance that they will post this question in the software forum, where it currently belongs. There is a 30% chance they will post it in the General forum so more people see it or because they're new (or dumb). Add another forum, and then there are 3 places they could post it, 2 of them being half right.

The person posting the question doesn't know if this is in prefernces or if it's a hack, so how would they know where to post it?

My vote is to keep theming stuff in Software for the same reasons as Millenium. If it does get its own forum (perhaps worth a shot), I say it should be just theming as to not create confusion. After all, aren't hacks '3rd party software' anyway? How does one classify a pogram like Snapz Pro as a 'Hack' or 'App' or Fruit Menu?

Jeremy

mrbiiggy2 · Dec 24, 2002, 02:22 AM

If anything is done here, third-party software needs to be gotten rid of all together. What other kind of software is there for any OS besides third-party (uhm, Apple's is all of can think of.)? I think the threads should be bundled together with either OS forum under the software category it belongs in.

Then a theme forum needs to be created in place of it.

The way the forums are structure are just contributing to the damn confusion here, folks. That's why you can't get a single post in the right place!

Gul Banana · Dec 24, 2002, 05:03 AM

Well, there's second-party software, but OS X Developer covers that

v0id7 · Dec 24, 2002, 11:51 AM

ah a forum for themes....shows how much mac users love style =)