[NYCFarmboy]

DeLay Indicted in Campaign Finance Probe
Sep 28 12:37 PM US/Eastern

WASHINGTON

A Texas grand jury on Wednesday charged Rep. Tom DeLay and two political associates with conspiracy in a campaign finance scheme, an indictment that could force him to step down as House majority leader.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/28/D8CTCDQGD.html



Thoughts on this? Whats the real scoop on the Democrat prosecuter who has been gunning for Delay?

[BRussell]

I read that David Dreier is going to be the new interim majority leader. What is this world coming to when a gay guy is the Republican House majority leader and a pro-lifer is the Democratic Senate majority leader.

[OldManMac]

It's about time. It's interesting that you would mention that the guy who's been after DeLay is a Democrat, when you forget to mention that he's gone after Republicans as well.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by KarlG

It's about time. It's interesting that you would mention that the guy who's been after DeLay is a Democrat, when you forget to mention that he's gone after Republicans as well.

And the fact that he's indicted more Democrats than Republicans. . .

[saddino]

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

Whats the real scoop on the Democrat prosecuter who has been gunning for Delay?

From the article:

A Texas grand jury on Wednesday charged Rep. Tom DeLay and two political associates with conspiracy in a campaign finance scheme, an indictment that could force him to step down as House majority leader.

Regardless of the political motivations of the prosecutor, it was the grand jury that charged DeLay and his cronies.

Or are you asking:
1) Is the typical Texan grand jury stacked with Democrats?
2) Or, is this democratic prosector so skilled (or conversely is the typical Texan on a grand jury so easily swayed) that the jury has been "fooled" by their own misguided intuition?

Certainly these are interesting points, but I think the answer is most likely: after looking at the evidence in front of them, the jury decided an indictment was warranted.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by KarlG

It's about time. It's interesting that you would mention that the guy who's been after DeLay is a Democrat, when you forget to mention that he's gone after Republicans as well.

I think you mean "he's gone after Democrats as well."

From a Houston Chronicle editorial from a few years ago:

Until recent years, Democrats controlled the Texas Legislature, held most statewide offices and caused the big scandals. Now the situation is reversed, but some Republicans want their scandals to be exempt from investigation.

During his long tenure, Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle has prosecuted many more Democratic officials than Republicans. The record does not support allegations that Earle is prone to partisan witch hunts.

Apparently he has prosecuted 15 politicians, 11 of them Democrats. But in the end, this will be determined by the merits of the case, not the politics.

[OldManMac]

Yes, I did mean that. Thanks for noticing my error.

[spacefreak]

Yup, after a dozen or so failed attempts to nail Delay - including an investigation into a free golf round that Delay participated in - it looks like they found a way to get Delay out of his House position. The $190K check was cut 53 days prior to the election (60 days is the minimum requiement).

Now they have to prove that Delay knew when all the PAC's checks were written, including the one in question. This may be difficult, for apparently Hillary Clinton didn't even have knowledge that her campaign director fudged the numbers for a million-dollar event so that it could be used in her warchest.

It's interesting the Delay "knowingly, intelligently, and voluntarily" waived the statute of limitations on this "conspiracy" charge. I'm wondering who the hell his lawyer is, and what he was thinking. Surely they feel that Delay is nowhere near guilty, but why even risk it at all? It seems to me that a conviction is infinitely less possible without an indictment.

Something else is up here. Some other persons or group is going to get burned, and judging from Delay's waiving of the statute of limitations, I'm thinking he may be setting precedent for a much larger (Democrat) campaign finance violation. Delay is a true team player. If he could take a hit in exchange for a much bigger blow to the opposition, I think he'd do it in a heartbeat.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Apparently he has prosecuted 15 politicians, 11 of them Democrats. But in the end, this will be determined by the merits of the case, not the politics.

Which will in turn reveal any political motivations. For all we know, those 11 Democrats prosecuted could have been ridiculously and blatantly criminal in nature, where the non-prosecution of those individuals would have been a travesty.

We should let this all play out. Delay waiving the statute of limitations on his own indictment surely raises an eyebrow and induces some head scratching.

[Moderator]

Now watch the rats scurry...he's just gone from "friend" to "ally" according to the White House.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Which will in turn reveal any political motivations. For all we know, those 11 Democrats prosecuted could have been ridiculously and blatantly criminal in nature, where the non-prosecution of those individuals would have been a travesty.

Not so much:

U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, 1994: Acquitted of official misconduct and records tampering after Earle dropped the case during the trial.

Former state Rep. Betty Denton, D-Waco, 1995: Sentenced to six months probation and fined $2,000 for listing false loans and contributions on campaign finance reports.

Former state Rep. Lane Denton, D-Waco, 1995: Sentenced to 60 days in work-release program and six years probation, fined $6,000 and ordered to pay more than $67,000 restitution after being convicted of theft and misapplication of fiduciary property for funneling money from the Department of Public Safety Officers Association to a Denton company.

House Speaker Gib Lewis, D-Fort Worth, 1992: In plea bargain, Earle dropped more serious charges when Lewis pleaded no contest to failing to disclose a business investment. Lewis was fined $2,000, and the judge said he took into consideration that Lewis was retiring from public office.

Attorney General Jim Mattox, Democrat, 1985: Acquitted on felony bribery charges. Won re-election.

State Rep. Mike Martin, R-Longview, 1982: Pleaded guilty to perjury after lying about having himself shot to gain publicity. Did not run for re-election.

State Treasurer Warren Harding, Democrat, 1982: Pleaded no contest to official misconduct and dropped re-election bid.

Texas Supreme Court Justice Don Yarbrough, Democrat, 1978: Sentenced to five years for lying to a grand jury and forgery. Gave up seat.

Earl is, apparently, a straight shooter.

[DanMacMan]

The actual document

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0928051delay1.html

[RIRedinPA]

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

DeLay Indicted in Campaign Finance Probe
Sep 28 12:37 PM US/Eastern

WASHINGTON

A Texas grand jury on Wednesday charged Rep. Tom DeLay and two political associates with conspiracy in a campaign finance scheme, an indictment that could force him to step down as House majority leader.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/28/D8CTCDQGD.html



Thoughts on this? Whats the real scoop on the Democrat prosecuter who has been gunning for Delay?

And you also have Frist under investigation for some SEC violations.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Earl is, apparently, a straight shooter.

I'd hardly say that's the be-all conclusion based on that Daily Kos blog post. No real hard sentences for those convicted Democrats felons... lots of probations and work-release programs.

If Delay actually gets convicted, it will be interesting to see if he gets the typical Democrat felony sentence of 6 months probation and $2,000 fine.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by RIRedinPA

And you also have Frist under investigation for some SEC violations.

Every publicly elected official is under investigation.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by DanMacMan

The actual document

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0928051delay1.html

Yup. Note Delay's waiving of his own statute of limitations on this issue.

If some cop knocked on my door and had a photo of my car speeding from years ago, and he asked me if I'd be willing to waive the statute of limitations so that he could issue me a ticket, I'd tell him to take a hike.

[BRussell]

It seems to be a pretty clear case - Delay's PAC took money from corporations and gave them to political candidates, which is illegal. I'm not sure where the wiggle room is there. Delay could say he didn't know what his PAC was doing, but the other two are already facing charges, so I bet they've already turned on Delay.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I'd hardly say that's the be-all conclusion based on that Daily Kos blog post. No real hard sentences for those convicted Democrats felons... lots of probations and work-release programs.

If Delay actually gets convicted, it will be interesting to see if he gets the typical Democrat felony sentence of 6 months probation and $2,000 fine.

1) I posted the wrong link – my bad. Here is the right link;
2) The fact that it is a DKos blog post is immaterial. Earle's prosecution record is publicly available, and you could find it easily if you wanted;
3) The sentences are based on the applicable state law. The fact that Denton got a fine and probation has nothing to do with Earle – he charges what he can under the laws passed by the Texas legislature;
4) If you wish to use the phrase "typical Democrat felony sentence" you need to provide proof such a thing exists. Otherwise it is a meaningless phrase.

[himself]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Every publicly elected official is under investigation.

And rightfully so (if it were true).

[spauldingg]

To quote Cody Dawg...

"It's about time."

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by BRussell

I read that David Dreier is going to be the new interim majority leader. What is this world coming to when a gay guy is the Republican House majority leader and a pro-lifer is the Democratic Senate majority leader.

OMG!!!11!!11111!!!!
THAT IS WAY CRAZY FUNNY.

I laughed out loud in the middle of the library at school.
Good thing I was in the graduate reading room with no one else around.

[Pendergast]

[mojo2]

You know the kind of guy that is on your team but you don't really know, and from what you know about him you don't want to get chummy with? And when he gets in trouble the best you can do in his defense is to say nothing?

I'd heard of DeLay before the Capitol shooting, but that's when I first knew anything ABOUT him. That someone would raise SUCH IRE as to prompt a person to try to kill a US Senator in their Senate office???

I thought DeLay MUST be a so-and-so.

[spauldingg]

Interesting Delay quote:

"... I believe that this nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law.

Now, the other road is the path of least resistance. This is where we start making exceptions to our laws based on poll numbers and spin control. This is when we pitch the law completely overboard when the mood fits us, when we ignore the facts in order to cover up the truth.

Shall we follow the rule of law and do our constitutional duty no matter unpleasant, or shall we follow the path of least resistance, close our eyes to the potential lawbreaking, forgive and forget, move on and tear an unfixable hole in our legal system? No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country."

Referring to himself? Ahhh, No. BCs BJ.

[zizban]

Well Delay is a slime ball but whether he's guilty or not remains for a jury to decide.

[spacefreak]

That's the spirit.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by BRussell

It seems to be a pretty clear case - Delay's PAC took money from corporations and gave them to political candidates, which is illegal. I'm not sure where the wiggle room is there. Delay could say he didn't know what his PAC was doing, but the other two are already facing charges, so I bet they've already turned on Delay.

Earle has tried 6 times and finally succeeded. Consistent with his speech stating he'll be the one to bring DeLay down. He was the featured speaker last week at a Democratic fund-raiser where he took personal shots at DeLay. This, event was a newly formed Democratic political action committee, Texas Values in Action Coalition, intended to raise campaign money to take control of the state Legislature from the GOP.

Earle, an elected Democrat, helped generate $102,000 for the organization.

Some other juicy statements made by this man "not on a witch hunt";

Comparing the investigation to his prosecution of politicians in the past, Earle joked, "It's like comparing Grenada to World War II." He's practically slobbering on himself.

He was about to retire, but postponed it just for this investigation. I'm interested in the allegations and we'll see how this pans out. I watch with a critical eye.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by zizban

Well Delay is a slime ball but whether he's guilty or not remains for a jury to decide.

ZIZBAN! FOR THE COMMENT ADVISING US ALL TO WAIT FOR A JURY TO DECIDE HIS GUILT OR INNOCENCE YOU ARE MY HERO OF THE DAY!

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Earle has tried 6 times and finally succeeded. Consistent with his speech stating he'll be the one to bring DeLay down. He was the featured speaker last week at a Democratic fund-raiser where he took personal shots at DeLay. This, event was a newly formed Democratic political action committee, Texas Values in Action Coalition, intended to raise campaign money to take control of the state Legislature from the GOP.

Earle, an elected Democrat, helped generate $102,000 for the organization.

Some other juicy statements made by this man "not on a witch hunt";

Comparing the investigation to his prosecution of politicians in the past, Earle joked, "It's like comparing Grenada to World War II." He's practically slobbering on himself.

He was about to retire, but postponed it just for this investigation. I'm interested in the allegations and we'll see how this pans out. I watch with a critical eye.

But Daily Kos says that Earle's a straight shooter... that he isn't a partisan, so how can this be?

[himself]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

But Daily Kos says that Earle's a straight shooter... that he isn't a partisan, so how can this be?

oooh. sounds like a... Liberal Conspiracy® to me...

[smacintush]

Jeez, you guys act like you've never seen politicians act political before…

Yeah, I'm sure this indictment is political, just like smearing Earle is.

it doesn't make Delay any more innocent or guilty.

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Delay's PAC took money from corporations

What corporations?

[Moderator]

Go Hammer Go Hammer Go

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by demograph68

What corporations?

Read that indictment. One of them was, appropriately enough, a collection agency. Another was Sears. There are a few more.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Earle has tried 6 times and finally succeeded. Consistent with his speech stating he'll be the one to bring DeLay down. He was the featured speaker last week at a Democratic fund-raiser where he took personal shots at DeLay. This, event was a newly formed Democratic political action committee, Texas Values in Action Coalition, intended to raise campaign money to take control of the state Legislature from the GOP.

Earle, an elected Democrat, helped generate $102,000 for the organization.

Some other juicy statements made by this man "not on a witch hunt";

Comparing the investigation to his prosecution of politicians in the past, Earle joked, "It's like comparing Grenada to World War II." He's practically slobbering on himself.

He was about to retire, but postponed it just for this investigation. I'm interested in the allegations and we'll see how this pans out. I watch with a critical eye.

That doesn't sound like things a prosecutor should be doing during an investigation, but I'd like to see the source. Here's a liberal source about Earle, but with links to other sources. No one seems to deny that he's prosecuted more Democrats than Republicans during his career, which doesn't seem to fit with the idea that he's partisan in his prosecutions.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

It's interesting the Delay "knowingly, intelligently, and voluntarily" waived the statute of limitations on this "conspiracy" charge. I'm wondering who the hell his lawyer is, and what he was thinking. Surely they feel that Delay is nowhere near guilty, but why even risk it at all? It seems to me that a conviction is infinitely less possible without an indictment.

One theory about this is that Delay has agreed to a plea bargain, but it hasn't been publicly announced yet. I have no idea if that's true, and honestly it doesn't seem very plausible, but it's hard to explain this waiver otherwise.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

OMG!!!11!!11111!!!!
THAT IS WAY CRAZY FUNNY.

I laughed out loud in the middle of the library at school.
Good thing I was in the graduate reading room with no one else around.

Well apparently now Dreier isn't going to be it.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

But Daily Kos says that Earle's a straight shooter... that he isn't a partisan, so how can this be?

DailyKos didn't say Earle was a straight shooter: several Texas newspapers have said this.

[art_director]

If Delay is found guilty I hope they nail his a$$ to the wall. Same goes for any politician regardless of party. It's time for a little decency in American politics. I know, I know, it likely won't happen but one can hope.

I found it entertaining to hear Delay accuse the prosecutor of partisan attack. Given that a grand jury was the body that indited him.

[Spliffdaddy]

Here's a phrase that's as old as the country:

"A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich."

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

"A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich."

Four out of five Congressmen know the difference between a grand jury and a prosecutor. Apparently Tom Delay is the one who does not.

[smacintush]

People all over the country including me are getting automated phone calls telling them to call their representative and tell them to give back the "tainted" campaign contributions they got from Delay. This isn't political at all…nope…no way.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by art_director

I found it entertaining to hear Delay accuse the prosecutor of partisan attack.

Maybe he's just fishing for money.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by art_director

I found it entertaining to hear Delay accuse the prosecutor of partisan attack. Given that a grand jury was the body that indited him.

You may also find entertaining the fact that Earle tried to get the same indictment through (unsucessfully) with 5 other grand juries. This 6th grand jury finally came through with his indictment.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by BRussell

That doesn't sound like things a prosecutor should be doing during an investigation, but I'd like to see the source. Here's a liberal source about Earle, but with links to other sources. No one seems to deny that he's prosecuted more Democrats than Republicans during his career, which doesn't seem to fit with the idea that he's partisan in his prosecutions.

But they were all Earle's political oponents. Texas used to be all Democrats, broken up into a few different factions.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

But they were all Earle's political oponents. Texas used to be all Democrats, broken up into a few different factions.

So I guess that's an acknowledgment that he's not partisan? You're getting off the talking points, spacefreak. And if he only goes after "political opponents," in what way is Tom Delay a political opponent? Is Tom running for Travis County DA?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by BRussell

And if he only goes after "political opponents," in what way is Tom Delay a political opponent? Is Tom running for Travis County DA?

Good god, he never said that Earle ONLY goes after political opponents.

[BRussell]

I see, so he uses his office to go after Republicans in his partisan witch hunts even if they're not political opponents, but he also goes after political opponents who are Democrats. So none of the politicians he's prosecuted have done anything wrong. Wow, this is one really, really bad guy. Now I'm getting fired up!

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by BRussell

I see, so he uses his office to go after Republicans in his partisan witch hunts even if they're not political opponents, but he also goes after political opponents who are Democrats. So none of the politicians he's prosecuted have done anything wrong. Wow, this is one really, really bad guy. Now I'm getting fired up!

It is just a coincidence that these thing pop up just as election season is getting underway…right?

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by smacintush

It is just a coincidence that these thing pop up just as election season is getting underway…right?

We're about as far away from an election as you can get.