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Ozmodiar · Mar 25, 2006, 01:12 AM

Some friends of mine are looking to get a new computer and, despite my earnest protests, probably aren't going to get a Mac. They had a PC that crapped out on them a few months ago and I lent them my old original G4 Tower that I wasn't using, and I think they're getting tired of it.

I haven't owned a PC in five years and have barely used one in as much time, and they're not very computer literate. They would like to spend somewhere around $600 and are just going to use it for Word, email, web, and downloading.

What would you recommend to them? Is there any difference in generic vs. something like Dell? Like I said, I have no idea what's going on on the dark side.

Oh, and if you want you can give me some ammo to use to convince them to just get a Mac mini. They seem to think all Macs are as slow as the one I gave them even though it's almost seven years old. Also they apparently don't mind it when their computer gets clogged with viruses like the last one because that argument hasn't carried much weight either (although I have told them that when it DOES get clogged with viruses, they can look to someone other than me to fix it from now on).

rickey939 · Mar 25, 2006, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

Oh, and if you want you can give me some ammo to use to convince them to just get a Mac mini...

http://www.sarc.com

macaddict0001 · Mar 25, 2006, 02:50 AM

I would build my own.

hickey · Mar 25, 2006, 02:54 AM

run linux

Big Mac · Mar 25, 2006, 05:05 AM

I'd get an Intel Core Duo Mactel and run Windows XP on it.

Ozmodiar · Mar 25, 2006, 05:18 AM

Ha. ok, so...

I don't have the time to (learn how to) build a computer.
Computer illiterate so no linux, also I don't know anything about linux either.
Price point is around $600, so that rules out most Macs.

angelmb · Mar 25, 2006, 05:25 AM

I would get a Philips PC… just for the sake of liking the brand, has a range of nice looking peripherals…

http://tinyurl.com/nbnbw

alphasubzero949 · Mar 25, 2006, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by hickey

run linux

Rumor · Mar 25, 2006, 07:18 AM

For what you are describing, I would tell them to buy a base model Dell with a couple of upgrades depending on thier preferences.

wallinbl · Mar 25, 2006, 08:13 AM

Get a Dell. HP is good as well, but the stuff they sell in Best Buy/CompUSA isn't anything you actually want. Pay attention to which peripherals and how much RAM. You're better of dropping 200 MHz on the CPU if that lets you afford more RAM. 3.2 vs 3.4 isn't as much of an impact as 512MB vs 1GB or 2GB.

Google Dell deals or Dell coupon codes. There are a ton of them, and you can save a lot of money.

The Godfather · Mar 25, 2006, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

despite my earnest protests, probably aren't going to get a Mac. ... I lent them my old original G4 Tower that I wasn't using, and I think they're getting tired of it ... They seem to think all Macs are as slow as the one I gave them even though it's almost seven years old.

In retrospect, you should have lent them your faster Mac, and use the old one yourself. They would be buying the Mac mini now.

dawho9 · Mar 25, 2006, 09:17 AM

I would get an HP if you could get your hands on one of the business models. HP DC7600 series machines are pretty nice - big fan of them. Nothing special from a design standpoint though - standard black box.

That said, that pic of the phillips is pretty sweet looking.

dw9

The Godfather · Mar 25, 2006, 09:21 AM

I stand behind the Dell Optiplex Small Factor.

Like always, remove IE, install Firefox, get a good antivirus (slap the bill on them).

macforray · Mar 25, 2006, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by hickey

run linux

I agree. I just started experimenting with different "flavors" of Linux a few months ago. Depending on which applications they "must" run, Linux and the applications that are bundled or available will do everything that most users need. The biggest issue is stepping out of the box and personal comfort zone. Most Linux distributions have live CD versions that can be booted from the CD and "played" with. I have an old IBM Thinkpad 770, Pentium 233, 4 gig HD and 128 meg ram that I installed Mepis Lite on. It recognized the wireless card immediately and I was browsing the internet and checking mail almost immediately. I had XP on it before, and although still slow by today's standards, it is faster running Mepis than XP.

I also agree that ram is more important than CPU speed. If cost is a concern, opt for a slower CPU and more ram.

wallinbl · Mar 25, 2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by macforray

I agree. I just started experimenting with different "flavors" of Linux a few months ago. Depending on which applications they "must" run, Linux and the applications that are bundled or available will do everything that most users need. The biggest issue is stepping out of the box and personal comfort zone. Most Linux distributions have live CD versions that can be booted from the CD and "played" with. I have an old IBM Thinkpad 770, Pentium 233, 4 gig HD and 128 meg ram that I installed Mepis Lite on. It recognized the wireless card immediately and I was browsing the internet and checking mail almost immediately. I had XP on it before, and although still slow by today's standards, it is faster running Mepis than XP.

I also agree that ram is more important than CPU speed. If cost is a concern, opt for a slower CPU and more ram.

It certainly depends on the desired applications. There won't be any iTunes under linux, so all those AAC files you got from iTMS are useless. Picasa is a ton better for pictures than anything I've seen in linux thus far. Office 2003 is a ton nicer than OpenOffice. OpenOffice is getting better, but it's just not as smooth. If they want to head down to Best Buy and buy a game to play, linux is no good (Mac ain't so great here, either).

ghporter · Mar 25, 2006, 11:51 AM

I second Roumor's suggestion of a base-model Dell with some upgrades (RAM, more capable optical drives-like dual-layer DVD-everything burner...-and a large hard drive). For the first year there's lots of tech support that's easily available, and it's generally not even necessary.

Then find someone who can reinstall the OS and selected applications for them once the machine is delivered. Like all computer retailers, Dell puts a lot of potentially useful stuff (and some downright useless stuff) in their preinstalled image. They also have their own idea about how to lay out hard drive partitions and so on. So once they get their new computer, they should figure out what they want and don't want, and then reformat and reinstall the OS and what they do want on the machine.

SirCastor · Mar 25, 2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by hickey

run linux

I still don't think Linux is there for the basic end user. There's plenty of software, and it's certainly stable. However, I don't think the ease of use and support options are there for a person who doesn't have the computer background.

Of course, It's been about 6 months since I've run Linux, so maybe something's changed.

angelmb · Mar 25, 2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by angelmb

I would get a Philips PC… just for the sake of liking the brand, has a range of nice looking peripherals…

Eat my words… I think they only run windows… so time to look for another option, a Sun Ultra desktop running Solaris or even Linux would be a great choice.

production_coordinator · Mar 25, 2006, 11:58 AM

I would get the cheapest dell and a beautiful monitor... and hide the dell in a brown paper bag or behind my desk.

Also, with this whole XP on an iMac... I would still consider an iMac.

production_coordinator · Mar 25, 2006, 12:28 PM

For some reason, I've also wanted a rack mount system. I just like the idea of all my computers, new and old... all fitting in a single, well insulated cabinet, neatly tucked away.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

I still don't think Linux is there for the basic end user. There's plenty of software, and it's certainly stable. However, I don't think the ease of use and support options are there for a person who doesn't have the computer background.

Of course, It's been about 6 months since I've run Linux, so maybe something's changed.

Check out Ubuntu. It even has a Live CD.

For their needs, it will work just fine, and work well on older hardware too providing there is support for all of the hardware they depend upon.

SirCastor · Mar 25, 2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Check out Ubuntu. It even has a Live CD.

For their needs, it will work just fine, and work well on older hardware too providing there is support for all of the hardware they depend upon.

I was running Mandrake (which I was told was the most user friendly.) but I keep hearing about Ubuntu...

besson3c · Mar 25, 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

I was running Mandrake (which I was told was the most user friendly.) but I keep hearing about Ubuntu...

I don't know very much about Mandrake, but Ubuntu has got a huge market share of Desktop/newbie Linux users. Our local school system is using Edubuntu, a related project in their classrooms. Ubuntu is really targeting this space, so I'd definitely recommend checking out at least the live CD.

Ozmodiar · Mar 25, 2006, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Get a Dell. HP is good as well, but the stuff they sell in Best Buy/CompUSA isn't anything you actually want. Pay attention to which peripherals and how much RAM. You're better of dropping 200 MHz on the CPU if that lets you afford more RAM. 3.2 vs 3.4 isn't as much of an impact as 512MB vs 1GB or 2GB.

Google Dell deals or Dell coupon codes. There are a ton of them, and you can save a lot of money.

I didn't even think of that.

Originally Posted by The Godfather

In retrospect, you should have lent them your faster Mac, and use the old one yourself. They would be buying the Mac mini now.

I didn't even think of that either.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I probably won't be going with Linux, since I've never used it before and wouldn't be able to help them with it. To give you an idea of their level of geek, they called me one night cursing the computer out because they couldn't get something to print. Turned out they unplugged the printer's USB cable to charge an iPod and never plugged the printer back in.

zizban · Mar 25, 2006, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Eat my words… I think they only run windows… so time to look for another option, a Sun Ultra desktop running Solaris or even Linux would be a great choice.

meelk · Mar 25, 2006, 07:45 PM

Linux is not a viable alternative for people who know absolutely nothing. The people on this board suggesting it live in fantasy land.

The Godfather · Mar 25, 2006, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

To give you an idea of their level of geek, they called me one night cursing the computer out because they couldn't get something to print. Turned out they unplugged the printer's USB cable to charge an iPod and never plugged the printer back in.

It sounds like they would be frustrated with ANY computer. It would be best that they be frustrated with the PC.

Love Calm Quiet · Mar 26, 2006, 12:27 AM

What about an minimalist laptop? I need SOMEthing to see my pages in PC versions of browsers. Wout NOT like to accommodate a tower. Cheap Dell Laptop?

ReggieX · Mar 26, 2006, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by hickey

run linux

He's asking about hardware.

PurpleGiant · Mar 26, 2006, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

What about an minimalist laptop? I need SOMEthing to see my pages in PC versions of browsers. Wout NOT like to accommodate a tower. Cheap Dell Laptop?

Virtual PC. I know of few web developers using Macs who don't use VPC for their Windows testing. Having another machine simply to run Win/IE seems...unnecessary.

besson3c · Mar 26, 2006, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

Virtual PC. I know of few web developers using Macs who don't use VPC for their Windows testing. Having another machine simply to run Win/IE seems...unnecessary.

I HATE the idea of bogging down my entire computer and waiting for the stupid thing to boot up and restore itself and all that when I just want to check a simple page, plus the stupid disk images eat up space.

I run VMWare on a separate machine running FreeBSD, and run Windows within VMWare. You can run Windows within the free VMWare player, and borrow a friend's copy of Windows or something.

Having a spare machine running Unix/Linux can be very useful for testing stuff, storing files, and a number of other things. When I need Windows, I have access to it instantly through Microsoft Remote Desktop - it's absolutely painless. If Windows craps out, it doesn't bring down the entire machine with it.

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Love Calm Quiet · 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

Virtual PC. I know of few web developers using Macs who don't use VPC for their Windows testing. Having another machine simply to run Win/IE seems...unnecessary.

Yeah, I've certainly considered that...
But (hang in there with me a moment), I think it would be good business to have the FULL "PC Experience" ... viruses, worms, etc...

BECAUSE: I think that this could be a side-line to my business. There's so much more to do if I can provide support to my PC-using customers (vs guys on Macs): they have so many more complaints. When I fix up their web sites they often want to know why their PC has slowed down so much, etc., etc.

I may not be able to get them to switch yet, but I may get them to part with cash to keep them limping along!

So... Seriously, I think I need to get in there and "feel their pain" with them.

Love Calm Quiet · Mar 26, 2006, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

I stand behind the Dell Optiplex Small Factor.

When I google "Dell Optiplex Small Factor" all the first entries are for POWER SUPPLIES for that unit. Does that reflect how quickly the PS burns out?

nredman · Mar 26, 2006, 12:36 PM

i'd get a dell - my wife has had her dell laptop for 4 years and hasnt had any problems with it.

ghporter · Mar 26, 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

When I google "Dell Optiplex Small Factor" all the first entries are for POWER SUPPLIES for that unit. Does that reflect how quickly the PS burns out?

No. It indicates that the search term is more nearly matched by power supply items than the whole computer.

Dell's site shows how they name the sizes: Small Form Factor and Ultra Small Form Factor.

Using "Dell Optiplex Small Form Factor" in Yahoo! gives a decidedly different mix than without "form."

macsfromnowon · Mar 28, 2006, 03:41 PM

I was interested in the announcement of Guest PC being upgraded and (supposedly) handling USB. For $60 (+ $190 for XP-Home = $250) I could maybe run it on my old Pismo with 512MB? Since I don't have other stuff running on it... would that work as an occasional substitute for buying a doomed-to-die Dell for $600?

Or does XP demand more speed than my old 30GB HD is likely to provide?

His Dudeness · Mar 28, 2006, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by hickey

run linux

I second that notion.

turtle777 · Mar 28, 2006, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by macsfromnowon

I was interested in the announcement of Guest PC being upgraded and (supposedly) handling USB. For $60 (+ $190 for XP-Home = $250) I could maybe run it on my old Pismo with 512MB?

Yeah, that'll run the notepad just fine.

What else would you want to do with it...

-t

wdlove · Mar 28, 2006, 06:01 PM

Chances are if there wasn't a Mac, then I would have no interest in a PC. Who wants boring and frustrating.