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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Official Glossy vs. Matte Screen Thread

Official Glossy vs. Matte Screen Thread
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freudling
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Nov 8, 2008, 08:31 PM
 
So, as someone very hesitant to leave the matte world, since I work in varied lighting, and crunch text all day, I was reluctant to buy the new Unibody MBP.

I even went to the Apple Store twice and tested the demos for about 30 minutes each time. Each time I walked away unhappy with the reflectiveness of the screen.

After 1 week with the UniMBP, I would never go back to a matte screen. When I use my old 2.16 MBP matte, all I want to do is go back to the UniMBP's glossy screen. It is so much brighter, richer and fuller, and doesn't take time to warm up when starting up or waking from sleep.

This screen is much better than anything Apple has ever put out on a portable, and I would say that aside from all the other improvements, this really sets the UniMBP apart from any other Apple portable ever made. So after 2 decades of matte screens, where resolution increased here and there, but nothing dramatic, we are now in a post-matte era of Apple laptops, and I am glad we are.
     
fisherKing
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Nov 8, 2008, 09:28 PM
 
funny, i have hated the glossy screens, so i bought a last-gen 12" powerbook when the macbooks came out.
having checked out, side-by-side (with same desktop pics, same brightness, same monitor settings), the aluminum macbook, pro, and the previous macbook and pro...i like the new screen on the pro as well. it was sharp, clear, strong. the previous macbook pro looked almost as good (this was a matte version).

my problem is i want small & light. and the aluminum macbook screen was awful, worse than the previous macbook. the colors were not as good, and the mirror-like quality of the screen was distracting. my eye doctor (a macuser) suggests a potential problem, where your eyes focus back-and-forth between the reflected images and the image on-screen (altho he has not yet seen the new 'book).

anyway, enjoy your mbp (while i wrestle with a replacement for my departed 12" powerbook)...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 8, 2008, 09:28 PM
 
We've already had an official Glossy vs. Matte thread.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 8, 2008, 10:22 PM
 
Now we have 2 your enjoyment?
     
Veltliner
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Nov 8, 2008, 11:14 PM
 
Let's call it the inofficial official matte vs. glossy thread.

All human beings are excused if they don't want to read it.
     
MartiNZ
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Nov 8, 2008, 11:33 PM
 
I chose glossy on my Feb '08 MBP and have not looked back - it is so much brighter than any other display that I have anything to do with. It's amazing when you have it hooked up to an external display and you really see the difference.

I think I've finally decided to stick with this machine for now, but the glass covering on the new ones' screens is fairly tempting to me - having no rim under which to accumulate dust would be nice; it is hard keeping the older displays clean, and, I assume, fingerprints and such are easier to get rid of on the glass. There is that odd rubbery edge still and a groove that seems to me like it might be like the iPhone's - another attractor of dust and 'white things' that just show so annoyingly against the black.

I rarely have any issue with reflections, and when that does happen, I just tilt the display differently; hasn't failed yet!
     
issa
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Nov 9, 2008, 12:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
After 1 week with the UniMBP, I would never go back to a matte screen. When I use my old 2.16 MBP matte, all I want to do is go back to the UniMBP's glossy screen. It is so much brighter, richer and fuller, and doesn't take time to warm up when starting up or waking from sleep.
This may seem like splitting hairs, but in switching from a 2.16GHz MBP I believe you moved from what would have been a monitor that used CCFT backlighting to one that uses LED. That makes your experience, as valid as it is, somewhat different from those moving from a later generation MBP to the new ultra-reflective MirrorBook Pro. The change to LED backlighting (in June 2007) already accounts for a good deal of the difference in brightness, fast waking, etc.
     
Maflynn
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Nov 9, 2008, 07:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
We've already had an official Glossy vs. Matte thread.
Yes but this one is "Official"
~Mike
     
iREZ
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Nov 9, 2008, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by issa View Post
This may seem like splitting hairs, but in switching from a 2.16GHz MBP I believe you moved from what would have been a monitor that used CCFT backlighting to one that uses LED. That makes your experience, as valid as it is, somewhat different from those moving from a later generation MBP to the new ultra-reflective MirrorBook Pro. The change to LED backlighting (in June 2007) already accounts for a good deal of the difference in brightness, fast waking, etc.
Quoted for emphasis...
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mduell
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Nov 9, 2008, 03:47 PM
 
Glossy (like the MBAir) is better than matte, IMO, but I'm not convinced these new glassy (iMac, MB, MBPro) displays are as good as glossy.
     
Big Mac
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Nov 9, 2008, 04:23 PM
 
Does anyone think there's the possibility that Apple will relent and offer a matte laptop ever again?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 9, 2008, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by issa View Post
This may seem like splitting hairs, but in switching from a 2.16GHz MBP I believe you moved from what would have been a monitor that used CCFT backlighting to one that uses LED. That makes your experience, as valid as it is, somewhat different from those moving from a later generation MBP to the new ultra-reflective MirrorBook Pro. The change to LED backlighting (in June 2007) already accounts for a good deal of the difference in brightness, fast waking, etc.
No, it is not different. I have used LED matte screens as well, and this screen is much better. All the LED did was make the screen a bit brighter and richer, but not by much. Matte looks grainy beside these new screens, whether it is LED or CCFT.
     
MartiNZ
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Nov 9, 2008, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Does anyone think there's the possibility that Apple will relent and offer a matte laptop ever again?
Not I. I expect rather that the next Air will have glassy glossy and no button and then there will only be glassy. And then I'd say the external display line will all be glassy before too long. If Psystar come up with a laptop as rumoured, and have a lot of OPTIONS, I think they could pick up quite a market.
     
fisherKing
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Nov 9, 2008, 06:39 PM
 
we're probably about 2 generations away from pure-mirror screens (get rid of the onscreen stuff, and focus fully on the reflective qualities of the glass). i can hardly wait...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
MartiNZ
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Nov 9, 2008, 08:28 PM
 
And then no display at all, just a projection to a touch screen?
     
issa
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Nov 10, 2008, 01:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
No, it is not different.
It may not be different to you; and one can only take you at your word on that.

Still, in your original post, you only wrote of switching from the 2.16GHz to the new unibody MBP. Within that context and without the additional information you offered later (as quoted below), the suggestion I made regarding CCFL vs. LED backlighting is completely valid, and the experience must be different. You might notice that I never addressed glossy vs. matte in my comment.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I have used LED matte screens as well, and this screen is much better. All the LED did was make the screen a bit brighter and richer, but not by much. Matte looks grainy beside these new screens, whether it is LED or CCFL.
Okay. I'll take your word on that. I suppose some of the confusion here is that you opened a thread about "glossy vs. matte". But you are talking about going from any antiglare screen (CCFL or LED backlit) to the new ultra-reflective glass finish. This overlooks and is somewhat different than discussing the glossy screens that Apple has sold previously. So, maybe the discussion should be expanded to become the "Official Ultra-Reflective-Glassy vs. Glossy vs. Matte Thread". With a dash of CCFL vs. LED tossed in for good measure.
( Last edited by issa; Nov 10, 2008 at 02:16 AM. )
     
issa
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Nov 10, 2008, 02:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
All the LED did was make the screen a bit brighter and richer, but not by much.
Just for the record, I don't agree with this assessment of the change in backlighting and possibly panel choice when Apple made the switch to LED backlighting in June 2007. In my subjective opinion, and in my own testing, the display quality was improved greatly over the previous generation of 1440 x 900 display for the 15" MBP.

As one example of similar reaction that includes some testing, I might point you to Ron Galbraith's testing of the LED-backlit generation released in June 2007 on his "Digital Photography Insights" site:

Evaluating the MacBook Pro 15 inch LED-backlit display

To sum up, the new MacBook Pro 15 inch's LED-backlit display is very, very good. It's the best laptop display we've seen and one we'd use in the field without reservation. ... the MacBook Pro 15 inch with LED backlight is definitely a step up from any laptop display we've looked at before.
( Last edited by issa; Nov 10, 2008 at 02:35 AM. )
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 10, 2008, 05:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by issa View Post
Just for the record, I don't agree with this assessment of the change in backlighting and possibly panel choice when Apple made the switch to LED backlighting in June 2007. In my subjective opinion, and in my own testing, the display quality was improved greatly over the previous generation of 1440 x 900 display for the 15" MBP.
Am I allowed to say this "off the record".

I don't agree with your assessment, issa, but who cares. I love the new glass, glossy screen and would never switch to a matte screen again, be it CCFL or LED. It is the biggest screen improvement on an Apple portable since the option of active matrix vs. passive matrix displays on color PowerBooks. Matte vs. glassy glossy is strikingly similar to the latter.

And, if issa must continue to post in this thread, assume we are comparing the new glass, glossy to mattes.
     
issa
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Nov 10, 2008, 06:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I don't agree with your assessment, issa, but who cares.
Well, the assessment I offered involved a only comparison of the LED-backlit displays as opposed to the the prior generation of MBP that used CCFL backlighting. This I offered in response to your comment, "All the LED did was make the screen a bit brighter and richer, but not by much." Again, my assessment on that front is that Apple did make great progress in that move.

I've not argued that the new ultra-reflective-glassy display doesn't make further improvements on color reproduction. In fact, freudling, you may recall me writing previously in a different thread that, on initial inspection, I thought the new unibody MBP presented the best color I've seen to date on a PB/MBP.

That said, while I can tolerate the glossy when necessary, I personally doubt that I could work for the long hours that I must in front of the ultra-reflective-glassy display. For the sake of learning, I do plan to try it out for a more extended session when it becomes easier to borrow one from those around me. In the meantime, I'll wait for the Nehalem upgrade while hoping that Apple comes up with a display with a little less shine in the meantime. I think there is a reasonably good chance of that happening.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I love the new glass, glossy screen and would never switch to a matte screen again, be it CCFL or LED.
All power to ya. These decisions are personal, and you're the one spending the money. You should get what you want. As should others.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It is the biggest screen improvement on an Apple portable since the option of active matrix vs. passive matrix displays on color PowerBooks. Matte vs. glassy glossy is strikingly similar to the latter.
Here I must disagree. This, in my opinion, is nothing even close to the evolution from passive to active matrix.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
And, if issa must continue to post in this thread, assume we are comparing the new glass, glossy to mattes.
I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
( Last edited by issa; Nov 10, 2008 at 07:01 AM. )
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 10, 2008, 07:04 AM
 
I think arstechnica's review of the new ProBook covers both sides of the argument quite well.
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freudling  (op)
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Nov 10, 2008, 07:48 AM
 
"All the LED did was make the screen a bit brighter and richer, but not by much." Again, my assessment on that front is that Apple did make great progress in that move."

Uh huh.

"I've not argued..."

Why are there so many arguments on MacNN anyway? Everything seems like an argument, even when someone says it is not.

"That said, while I can tolerate the glossy when necessary, I personally doubt that I could work for the long hours that I must in front of the ultra-reflective-glassy display."

Recommendation: Saw off the screen of a matte LED from a MBP and glue it onto the new UniMBP.

"Here I must disagree. This, in my opinion, is nothing even close to the evolution from passive to active matrix."

Here you are arguing, I thought you weren't going to do that. And you sort of contradict yourself, with this previous comment, " In fact, freudling, you may recall me writing previously in a different thread that, on initial inspection, I thought the new unibody MBP presented the best color I've seen to date on a PB/MBP."
     
issa
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Nov 10, 2008, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Why are there so many arguments on MacNN anyway? Everything seems like an argument, even when someone says it is not.
Well, sorry if my word choice wasn't the best. I meant no harm and mean no harm. Truly. When I wrote, "I've not argued...", I intended that in the sense of philosophical argument, as in having a discussion that involves diverging views. No intention to fight with anybody. But every intention of discussing opinions.

So, in later stating that I don't agree with the passive-to-active matrix comparison, I was expressing a differing opinion. This hasn't changed. This is a discussion forum, after all. Anyway, I won't push it. Enjoy your new MBP.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 10, 2008, 08:58 AM
 
People, keep it civil. It's a matter of taste and not being used to glassy displays.

Back when lcds became more and more commonplace, people claimed that for color proof work you needed a CRT. Some people still maintain that this is true even today. I haven't seen the glassy displays in person yet, so I can't say if the reflections are really troublesome. But I have to admit that it must take a little getting used to.

Regarding displays with LCD backlight, not all of them give you a larger gamut, only some will. So it's entirely possible that in addition to having no absorber foils in between display and eye (which invariably reduce contrast and saturation), the new LED backlit displays still have a larger gamut.
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Maflynn
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Nov 10, 2008, 09:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think arstechnica's review of the new ProBook covers both sides of the argument quite well.
Good article and it hits the nail on the head when it states
Let's preface this by saying that consumers in general—and especially crotchety Mac users—love arguing about glossy vs. matte.
In a properly light-controlled environment (without which there is zero point in talking about professional work), with all tech specs being equal, and with properly calibrated screens, a glossy LCD is going to outperform a matte one every time. This is particularly evident in the higher contrast a glossy screen provides, the deeper blacks are what give it the richer look people often comment on when first exposed to a glossy display. Like any consumer tech this can be abused and cranked up to impress people in stores, but no pro uses a screen the way it comes out of the box.
I think that you can get a glossy screen that has deep blacks, accurate color and a wide gamut, so the problem really is just the glare
I've read here and elsewhere all of the "professionals" that complain how they cannot use a glossy display because the color is inaccurate compared to the matte.

The real issue is that apple took a choice a way, a choice that many people, including myself prefer. After you sift through all of the chaff the bottom line is we don't have a choice. I went from a matte MBP to a new glossy and found after I calibrated the monitor,its great, in fact better then my matte display. That's not to say that the glare doesn't bother me, but my office setup is such that its largly mitigated. I've yet traveled with it, but so far its great.

All of these "Official glossy vs. matte" threads boil down to a lot of whining and complaining.
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issa
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Nov 10, 2008, 11:32 AM
 
Thanks, OreoCookie. The arstechnica article certainly does cover a couple of perspectives well. And your words of reason are appreciated.

I think Maflynn also makes a good point in writing that one source of frustration for many is that Apple took away the buyer's choice. One might even say "choices" here, as the glossy display we have known on previous generations is now as unavailable as the matte option.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 10, 2008, 12:14 PM
 
I understand the concerns.
To be honest, seeing my sister's HP with glossy display or my friends' MacBooks, I do have my doubts. On the other hand, most of the people said that you `get used to it' within a day. So personally, I'm not decided yet. Particularly, I don't know whether glassy is any improvement over glossy. I guess they're easier to clean (I hate the dust that collects in the corners) and more resistant to surface pressure.

That being said, I am open to this new development. And I have my own reservations about notebook displays for color-sensitive work (even the best notebook displays have a smaller gamut than a decent desktop panel), but they don't pertain to glossy or glassy displays. Although I'm not a professional, I'm an enthusiastic amateur photographer who likes to make some books in Aperture or print out pictures for his friends and family. So I don't pretend to be a battle-hardened photoshopper, just someone who likes color accuracy and good screens.

Also, I like the fact that you are willing to try it out for a longer period in time (which is the only way to tell whether you end up liking glassy or not). If in the end, you still prefer matte, then that's that.
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issa
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Nov 10, 2008, 01:02 PM
 
Hey OreoCookie,

I suppose the concerns have to do solely with Apple's decision to make the glassy-glossy display the only option for users. That may be good for the bottom line, but it doesn't serve their loyal user base as well as I'd like to expect.

A bit of background, now. I own a late-2007 2.2GHz MacBook. It's something I bought to hopefully lessen the bulk when traveling. Couldn't see going with the Air at that time for reasons I'm happy to share at some point, (not the least of which is a "need" for 4GB in my machine.) I can use the MB fine and see beyond the display's glossy finish for periods of time. Only find it really distracting in certain lighting situations. Unfortunately, such situations turned out to be the majority of scenes where I tried to use it on the road. That coupled with what turned out to be an annoying lack of color accuracy means it's now time to do some pushups, go back to carrying a 15" MBP, and either set up the MB for the wife or sell it. The missus is still happily using a six year-old Ti, which does still run well.

As a replacement, I recently bought an early-2008 2.5GHz Penryn MBP. (And yes, that was after the new machines were unveiled.) In exchange for a great price through a contact at Apple Japan, I forewent my choice of screen type. That's right, I ordered it not knowing whether I would get a glossy or matte display! As such, I don't consider myself one of the "matte or nothing at all" zealots who have been making noise.

Still, I think you might be surprised when you see what arstechnica called "the shiny". It sets a new level for glare and reflection in my estimate.

I think it's only natural to have some reservations about using notebook displays for color-sensitive work. I have 'em too. When at my desk, I always use something with a wider gamut. Must admit, though, that the display on my new early-2008 MBP holds up pretty well once calibrated.
     
freudling  (op)
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Nov 10, 2008, 03:17 PM
 
After 1 week with the UniMBP, I would bet most people would never go back to prior iterations of the MBP.
     
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Nov 10, 2008, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Does anyone think there's the possibility that Apple will relent and offer a matte laptop ever again?
I doubt it. I think Apple is too impressed with the sturdiness of glass over plastic. I also think that Apple believes the average consumer is more impressed with the look of glass, especially in-store.

Also, I'm sure Apple anticipates that screen will only get sharper and brighter, making the viability of glass in "professional" work (in quotes because too many people these days claim they are involved with some type of cutting-edge graphics or video when in fact they just have too many lonely hours in their college dormitory) more and more acceptable.

If for no other reason, I like my glared glass because it hinders others from seeing what's on my screen in public places.
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freudling  (op)
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Nov 11, 2008, 01:15 AM
 
While I have had an array of software problems with my new UniMBP, now finally up and running full-time tonight (several Apple Support calls later), the screen keeps popping out at me. I love it. Funny, I was one of the biggest critics of Apple's decision on the glassy glossy no other option debacle. But I also trusted their judgement and bought a UniMBP. The experience of using OS X is just that much better now, exactly the same, for me, as when I went from passive matrix to TFT back in the day.
     
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Nov 20, 2008, 12:23 PM
 
I just got a new MacBook Pro 17 last Thursday and decided to go glossy after having a matte screen since the days of the PowerBook G3 "Wallstreet". I'm very pleased with the glossy screen. I was really unsure about it but now, I wouldn't go back. When in Aperture working on my pics, the colors seem much richer, the screen much brighter. I'm very happy with it.
     
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Nov 20, 2008, 12:54 PM
 
glassy rock!!!
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fisherKing
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Nov 20, 2008, 03:30 PM
 
just too bad the macbook screen is so much more reflective then the pro (and the colors are somewhat washed out); am not a glossy-screen fan, but the mbp looks pretty great...
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OreoCookie
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Nov 20, 2008, 04:35 PM
 
If anyone has been keeping tabs, I haven't been overly enthusiastic about glossy screens (my sister's HP has one and I don't like it), but I've had a chance to play with the new ProBook. It's glassy screen is the best I've seen on a notebook to date. I didn't notice any reflections, the colors and contrast were a substantial improvement over my ProBook's matte screeen (first-gen 2 GHz ProBook).
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Nov 20, 2008, 05:20 PM
 
OreoCookie:

Nice. When I pick up my matte MBP (once in a while), I can't stand the screen anymore: the UniMBP's screen is just so much richer and fuller, it is hard to go back to anything else.
     
iREZ
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Nov 20, 2008, 06:18 PM
 
Remember that you two aren't comparing LED to LED...but rather CCFT to LED, in which case the difference is very noticeable. Also, don't forget to take into account the differences in age of the two machines (and their screens) fwiw.

iow...my "early 2008" matte 2.4mbp LED screen is also much brighter and better looking in general compared to my 2.0mbp CCFT screen (from 2 years back).
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