[mAxximo]

That's pretty much it.

A Targa sequence I urgently needed to continue working in an After Effects project put the OS X �Finder� on its knees and brought my workflow to a halt simply because I dared to drag all those items from a folder network into my hard drive.
Right after I tried dragging them it was the beachball of death for like four minutes, then it started copying but not to the folder I had drag the items to , then it hung there for an eternity until I had to relaunch the �Finder�.

This system is so NOT ready for intensive use in any professional environment it's not even funny.

[Luca Rescigno]

Yes... Finder is really terrible and slow. It's a damn shame that Apple feels it's more important to tack on worthless crap like a brushed metal interface and a "sidebar" rather than actually making it faster and more robust.

Ever tried turning off or otherwise disconnecting a computer from a network when an OS X machine is connected to that computer? Beachball of death. Apparently, when handling network tasks, OS X completely loses its otherwise excellent multitasking capabilities and instead allocates 100% of the CPU to pinging the no-longer-connected machine for a minute or two.

[Chuckit]

I've copied ~500-item folders many times. What version are you using?

[Ruahrc]

Yeah me too. I copied a folder from my windows PC that was 13GB in size, thousands of folders and thousands of files. Took forever but it copied over no problem.

If you can get away with it- try navigating up one folder level, and dragging just the folder over. Finder won't lag like that when you just drag that one icon and not 450.

Ruahrc

[bmedina]

A lot of it depends on the speed of the network, but yes, the Finder's network code sucks ass (still).

mAxximo, was this using AFP or SMB? 10.3.7 included some fixes for AFP that may improve things. Do you have the option of using SCP/SFTP on the server?

Oh, and the conclusion "This system is so NOT ready for intensive use in any professional environment" does not follow from your argument. This is what's called a troll, and that's why people react so negatively to your posts.

[Toyin]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Yes... Finder is really terrible and slow. It's a damn shame that Apple feels it's more important to tack on worthless crap like a brushed metal interface and a "sidebar" rather than actually making it faster and more robust.

Ever tried turning off or otherwise disconnecting a computer from a network when an OS X machine is connected to that computer? Beachball of death. Apparently, when handling network tasks, OS X completely loses its otherwise excellent multitasking capabilities and instead allocates 100% of the CPU to pinging the no-longer-connected machine for a minute or two.

This hasn't happened to me since 10.2. I rarely eject any volumes from work. When I come home I get a dialogue within 2-3 seconds of waking up my PB. The dialogue informs me that xyz drive is no longer available. I'm then given the option to disconnect the server and eject the drive. Very clean and simple.

The copying issue does exist. I find that it to be inconsistent though. Most of the times I can drag a large number of files. The few times I get the beach ball I patiently wait till it disappears and then drop the files where I want them. If you're impatient you can end up dropping them in a random location. You'll then have to undo the move and try again. It really is inexcusable. Hopefully the finder will be better optimized in Tiger.

[Hi I'm Ben]

I've copied over 3000 files from a network folder no problem. And I've been doing it since OS 10.1

16 gigs of MP3's from my PC to my Mac

[Big Mac]

Whenever I get disconnected from a network, I get a graceful disconnect dialog. The Finder is FAR from perfect, but I agree that our new member friend is a troll.

[Diggory Laycock]

You let a copy continue for 4 years without cancelling?

[Gavin]

Those damn finder hangs can take that many years off your life easily!


If you really have that many files to transfer it goes much quicker if you archive them into a single file with tar or stuffit or zip, etc. Even without compression.


With a couple hundred MB worth of a couple hundred files it will really pay off.

[JMII]

I've noticed the OSX Finder is fast while doing network copies of any size as long as your only doing ONE copy operation at a time. However once you attempt to start another copy operation (while the first one is still going) it slows BOTH copies to a crawl so much for multitasking. Oddly OS9 handles multiple copy operations just fine, the issues there is that Finder itself becomes so busy working on the copies its completely unresponsive to mouse movements (or clicks) till all the copies finish.

I do alot of large/multiple file movements over the network since I do pre-press work and agree this is a weak point of OSX when compared to OS9. The only advantage is that in OSX you can launch an app and get some work done while the copy continues (ever so slowly) in the background. In OS9 this is impossible since it does not support true multi-tasking, but atleast the copies themselves finish quicker In the end its a toss up I guess.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
That's pretty much it.

A Targa sequence I urgently needed to continue working in an After Effects project put the OS X �Finder� on its knees and brought my workflow to a halt simply because I dared to drag all those items from a folder network into my hard drive.
Right after I tried dragging them it was the beachball of death for like four minutes, then it started copying but not to the folder I had drag the items to , then it hung there for an eternity until I had to relaunch the �Finder�.

This system is so NOT ready for intensive use in any professional environment it's not even funny.

I do this ALL THE TIME. I've copied 10,000 files, a total of 56 GB, over AFP, and it was fine.

And I've copied a folder containing 100,000 files over the network. Took a while, but worked fine.

So this "beachball of death" is not normal.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Whenever I get disconnected from a network, I get a graceful disconnect dialog. The Finder is FAR from perfect, but I agree that our new member friend is a troll.

It's been a slow year over at everyone's favorite creative-writing forum, thalo.net .

For the record, most of the thalo.net crew got banned or just smacked down out of the macfixit forums' OS X Talk, back when it existed, except for thalo himself, who packed up his toys and left in a huff when most of his former playmates had left the sandbox in annoyance (a lot of them landed here).

A small crew of rebels continue fight the increasingly silly fight against reality and their own misconceptions.

There's a morsel of truth every month or so (dragging a lot of files in the Finder IS a bitch, though MUCH less of a bitch than the crap I have to wade through tech-supporting OS 9 users), but most of it takes the absurd forms seen above.

Some of the less self-absorbed postings are amusing to read, though. I think it's been a long time since anybody bothered arguing with them anymore. I stopped reading months ago after a brief stint.

-s*

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
You let a copy continue for 4 years without cancelling?

That was my first impression too!

[Gavin]

I read that wrong at first.

I though you said you had a first impression tool.

Dude, you could sell those !

[Zadian]

Coping files over a network in the Finder is the weak spot of Mac OS X. Most of the time it works without a problem, but from time to time the finder will stop responding.

I think the source of the problem is the "pretty" interface of the Finder. The Finder has to collect all the icons and tries to display them while the files are dragged to the new location. This can take some time if many icons are dragged - resulting in the Finder becoming unresponsive. I hope Tiger fixes this in some way (no icons while dragging or a better multithreaded Finder).

In the mean time I normally only copy folders containing the files - if i have to copy a huge amount of files - or wait until the Finder displays all the icons in a folder before i drag the items.

[Link]

What apple could do to the finder to save a truckload of time is trunticate the 238497234 icons to one []... icon when you're dragging more than say, 10 items like that.

They seriously need to do something about icons in general -- not just preview.. I always wondered why pretty much every other OS blows the finder out of the water when it comes to network browsing.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
That's pretty much it.

A Targa sequence I urgently needed to continue working in an After Effects project put the OS X �Finder� on its knees and brought my workflow to a halt simply because I dared to drag all those items from a folder network into my hard drive.
Right after I tried dragging them it was the beachball of death for like four minutes, then it started copying but not to the folder I had drag the items to , then it hung there for an eternity until I had to relaunch the �Finder�.

This system is so NOT ready for intensive use in any professional environment it's not even funny.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. Having archived 100s of GBs of files from a Win2k server to DVD, often times containing upwards of a million files and 30,000 folder per DVD.

Thalo.net has your brotherhood, go complain some more there.

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Whenever I get disconnected from a network, I get a graceful disconnect dialog. The Finder is FAR from perfect, but I agree that our new member friend is a troll.

whenever i get disconnected from a network, i too get a graceful disconnect dialogue.... only trouble is, that it disnae appear for what seems like about a minute, during which time the finder is practically unusable.

pointing out that finder's networking sucks, does not necessarily make someone a troll.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
pointing out that finder's networking sucks, does not necessarily make someone a troll.

Reputations often follow individuals from one forum to another. He was banned from Ars for trolling. Read more of his love of OS X at thalo.net

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Reputations often follow individuals from one forum to another. He was banned from Ars for trolling. Read more of his love of OS X at thalo.net

I was banned from Arstechnica for daring to point out why OS X is still pretty much a beta-grade operating system that's not ready for professional use. BFD. While everybody was freely allowed to gang up on me and insult me over and over with no consequences, I was banned for posting �It's not Quark, it's OS X� in a thread called �Quark Sucks�. So go figure.
You've been picking on me since day one. Please stop it. I take the �troll� BS as a personal attack. If you don't have anything on-topic to say please stay out of the thread.

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by Ruahrc:
If you can get away with it- try navigating up one folder level, and dragging just the folder over. Finder won't lag like that when you just drag that one icon and not 450.

Ruahrc

True.
It seems that a lot of things in OS X take an extra step or two to make them work, as opposed to other more mature operating systems. Needless to say I'd rather be focusing on my job than on the workarounds to make basic computing tasks happen.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by mAxximo:

You've been picking on me since day one. Please stop it. I take the �troll� BS as a personal attack. If you don't have anything on-topic to say please stay out of the thread.

I contributed above and now some more. I just copied ~10GB from my Win2k server via SMB to my MDD867. Approximately 150,000 files, mostly small html/gif/jpg files to my ext. FW drive. A rather large project consisting of roughly 8,000 folders

OT : They say karma bites you in the @ss when you least expect it. I have a different nic at ars. You never stopped your personal attacks on me and others. While I won't personally attack you, I am only pointing out your tactics.

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by SMacTech:
I have a different nic at ars. You never stopped your personal attacks on me and others. While I won't personally attack you, I am only pointing out your tactics.

Point me to ONE personal attack on you or anybody else at Ars that's not a direct response to a previous attack on me. ONE.
Liar.

[lookmark]

Well, that went downhill quickly.

Are we discussing OS X's networking glitches, or something else?

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
True.
It seems that a lot of things in OS X take an extra step or two to make them work, as opposed to other more mature operating systems. Needless to say I'd rather be focusing on my job than on the workarounds to make basic computing tasks happen.

If these vastly superior, "more mature operating systems" actually exist, it sounds like that's what you're looking for.

Originally posted by mAxximo:
I take the �troll� BS as a personal attack.

Maybe if you stopped calling people who disagree with you "apologists" and "idiots," you might get labeled as a troll less (and have more room to complain about personal attacks). Your comments are rarely objective criticisms and much more often needless insults.

[bamburg dunes]

To be fair here, MAxximo was almost always berated for his opinions on Ars. Yeah, he could go overboard at times with his feelings, we all do, but some people took it upon themselves to abuse him even if he only just popped his head in a threads with an inocuous point.

Hell, I got slammed recently for daring to say OS X was sh!t for many a thing, and OS 9 was better, IME. It's not even constructive criticism, it's just pure abuse if you dare to speak out.

[bmedina]

Here's why I called you a troll:

This system is so NOT ready for intensive use in any professional environment it's not even funny.

If you can't see why that's a troll, then it's no wonder you've been banned from Ars.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by bamburg dunes:
Hell, I got slammed recently for daring to say OS X was sh!t for many a thing, and OS 9 was better, IME. It's not even constructive criticism, it's just pure abuse if you dare to speak out.

To be fair, "OS X is ****" isn't really constructive criticism either.

[wadesworld]

I was banned from Arstechnica for daring to point out why OS X is still pretty much a beta-grade operating system that's not ready for professional use.

If this is your opinion, then it's pretty much useless trying to convince you otherwise.

Wade
(who uses OS X professionally every day)

[Thinine]

At Ars, I didn't like mAxximo because he didn't know what he was talking about. This thread is as close as he's gotten to legitimate complaint, but that's all it is, a complaint. He isn't asking for help or trying to find a solution, he's just whining for whining's sake. Which makes him a troll.

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by Thinine:
At Ars, I didn't like mAxximo because he didn't know what he was talking about. This thread is as close as he's gotten to legitimate complaint, but that's all it is, a complaint. He isn't asking for help or trying to find a solution, he's just whining for whining's sake. Which makes him a troll.

I'm whining about a commercial product that for the last four years have failed to meet my expectations. You are whining about me because I'm criticising Apple. How would you call that? I have an idea...

[Chuckit]

Telling someone to stop trolling != whining.

Bitching about a company on a third-party message board = whining.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
I'm whining

Glad you can admit that.

I like to come to this forum to help people with problems, if I can. And I also learn from others when trying to do that.

[bamburg dunes]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
To be fair, "OS X is ****" isn't really constructive criticism either.

I know, I was just summarizing what goes on, my posts over there are a bit more elaborate.

[lenox]

Use a Finder alternative like PathFinder.

[Millennium]

What method of networking were you using?

This is an honest question, because this might not actually be the Mac's fault. Some of the more popular network systems in corporate environments will choke when you try to copy that many files at ones, due to actual flaws in the system itself, not the OS involved. I'm thinking about NFS in particular.

Also, have you tried this same type of copy (450 files over the network) with other machines?

[mAxximo]

Originally posted by Millennium:
What method of networking were you using?

This is an honest question, because this might not actually be the Mac's fault. Some of the more popular network systems in corporate environments will choke when you try to copy that many files at ones, due to actual flaws in the system itself, not the OS involved. I'm thinking about NFS in particular.

Also, have you tried this same type of copy (450 files over the network) with other machines?

Interesting. We are in fact using NFS to connect to that particular server. The other machines I use are a Windows 2000 box that doesn't have this problem and an OS 9 Mac that works flawlessly via FTP. How does a flaw in NFS bring the X �Finder� down like that?

Why not just use the Terminal then?

And when you make statements like "This system is so NOT ready for intensive use in any professional environment it's not even funny" then you are trolling, plain and simple. That statement does nothing. It isn't answering a question, it isn't helping others to help you, and it isn't offering anything to anyone else.

Instead of saying trolling garbage like that, how about "Does anyone else have this problem" instead? It's polite, and people will be more likely to help you.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
Interesting. We are in fact using NFS to connect to that particular server. The other machines I use are a Windows 2000 box that doesn't have this problem and an OS 9 Mac that works flawlessly via FTP. How does a flaw in NFS bring the X �Finder� down like that?

Well that answers some of the problems you are having. I too tried NFS at some point in time and it didn't work for our needs.

The fact that FTP works flawlessly is rather pointless as it is a completely different matter.

[shiny]

He is a Troll. He hangs out at this OS X haters forum just looking for ways to bash OS X.


http://thalo.net/eve/ubb.x

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by bmedina:
it's no wonder you've been banned from Ars.

Ars too?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by lookmark:
Well, that went downhill quickly.

Are we discussing OS X's networking glitches, or something else?

Bingo.

Any MacFixit veteran can tell you that mAxximo is the Zimphire of OS discussion.

He's equally as entertaining, too, though for an equally short time.

[eddiecatflap]

i do have problems with things on the desktop , seems more than a hundred or so and the finder hangs

i had to restart in 9

plus window resize is still pathetic

[Ryan1524]

i can move files over just fine, but a transfer did get cut off and i can't connect back to the network drive once. i don't know why, but the computers in my 'Network' seems to change cosntantly, every few minutes. they never sit still, and it's impossible to connect to them. is this ffidner's problem, or the network's fault?

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Ryan1524:
i can move files over just fine, but a transfer did get cut off and i can't connect back to the network drive once. i don't know why, but the computers in my 'Network' seems to change cosntantly, every few minutes. they never sit still, and it's impossible to connect to them. is this ffidner's problem, or the network's fault?

I get this problem on our Airport computers, but not ones connected by ethernet. So it seems to be at least partially because of the network.

Originally posted by eddiecatflap:
i do have problems with things on the desktop , seems more than a hundred or so and the finder hangs

What version? This works for me on 10.3.5. But what were you doing with so many items on your desktop?

[gperks]

I had this the other day. Connected via Ethernet & Airport extreme on 10.3.6 to an ethernet-connected WinXP box.

SMB protocol.

Attempted to copy I estimate 100 photos from the Mac to the PC. Finder progress window started off well then froze up, beachball appeared. Going to Terminal it looked like all the files had actually been copied. I speculate the Finder was trying to re-read the photos to show icons or something?

Copied the files using the Terminal and they copied quickly and successfully.

I had selected all the photos (command-A) and dragged the set rather than just dragging the containing folder.

I've had frequent success copying small numbers of files using the Finder over SMB but this large batch of photos caused the Finder to need relaunching for me.

[theolein]

Originally posted by mAxximo:
I'm whining about a commercial product that for the last four years have failed to meet my expectations. You are whining about me because I'm criticising Apple. How would you call that? I have an idea...

1. You say that OSX is a beta level OS
2. You say you've been using it for four years.
3. You claim that your first statement is criticism and not just plain bitching.

I have a question for you:

If you think OSX is so bad and so immature why don't you sell your Mac and buy a PC with WinXP?

Answer me that one instead of complaining one more boring time about how bad OSX is. Let me know what is keeping you on the Mac.

If you CAN'T answer that question, then yes, we will just have to assume that you are indeed complaining for no other reason than that you love to complain, and that is called trolling.

[Kate]

Complaining can be a means of venting anger. It is not always a means of provoking others. That is not to sanction trolling.

On a sidenote: we all know that the Finder is a mission critical app and that it has nevertheless a lot of unpleasant habits that want solutions and that seem to come late if at all.

So I expect more anger venting coming as the OS evolves while the Finder seems to lag for the time beeing. But there are hopes for Tiger.

Relax.

[Chuckit]

But turning every thread into "OMG OSX is sooooooo disappointing!!!!!" is just a troll, and venting anger at people who didn't ask for it is pretty close to trolling anyway.