[RAILhead]

Man, how's that for a sentence?

Anyway, I'm looking for a somewhat moderately powerful receiver to add to our entertainment center -- but I'm screwed as far as room goes. I need to find something under 6" tall, and it HAS to offer the following as a minimum:

• at least 3 HDMI inputs
• 1080p upconverting
• at least 5 channels
• no less than 80 watts per channel
• a THD no greater than say .09%

I thought I found one with the Denon AVR-1909, but Crutchfield has the height wrong on their info section (though it's correct in the detailed specs). I'm not above pulling the feet off the bottom, either -- though I don't like that idea much if the unit vents to the bottom (?).

Can anyone find anything or offer suggestions to fit the above criteria?

Thanks,
Maury

[ctt1wbw]

I don't know exactly the sizes, but I used to have a Yamaha av receiver and some of their models seemed low in height. I would look at them. Plus they're great quality.

[Doofy]

Looks like you're buggered for under 6". Pioneer has one at 6.25" though.

How about using powered speakers? That'd take the amp out of the box leaving it smaller, no?

[residentEvil]

i have one for sale; an onkyo. let me look up the height. it surpasses all the above requests you want; plus does multi room audio and is THX select certified. $250.

edit: never mind. too high

[RAILhead]

Here's a decent looking Yamaha...

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXV5...rx-v563&tp=179

It only has 2 HDMI ins, and I really only *need* 2. It only clears by 1/16 though, so I'm concerned about overheating...

[Atheist]

What's going to be on top of it? Another A/V component? These things put out a lot of heat.. you definitely need some air flow on top and bottom.

(I've had a Yamaha RX-V992 for over 10 years... it has served me very well)

[ctt1wbw]

You think that space is big enough for a can of compressed air to blow the dust out of? I guess if you stay on top of the dust, you shouldn't have a problem.

[RAILhead]

Nothing will be on top -- it's that the opening in our entertainment armoire thingie only have 6 inches of clearance.

And yeah, you could blow dust -- and there will be venting underneath due to the unit's feet.

[ctt1wbw]

An

armoire thingie

?? Is technical jargon or what? What high end furniture store did you that from?

[badidea]

I have the HK AVR347 and love it!

It quite matches your requirements except that it "only" has 55Watts/channel which is really secondary with HK receivers - it has enough power!!
And I think that it only upconverts to 720p but can throughput 1080p!


edit: wait, I think I read the height wrong (damn inches) - it's too high...so forget my suggestion!

[residentEvil]

and my personal preference; is to avoid video processing at the receiver. let the TV do it all. so if you could remove that requirement; there are more choices of receivers under 6" then. but if your TV doesn't have enough inputs or doesn't do the conversion than i guess it wouldn't be an option for you

[RAILhead]

My TV is a Samsung 850 series, so it's pretty top o' the line.

[ort888]

Yeah, don't let the receiver do the conversion... let the tv do it. And don't forget about HDMI switch boxes.

I think you big problem is going to be finding one less then 6 inches high. Receivers are big.

[RAILhead]

Yes, the height is the main issue. I don't know how to go about "letting the tv do the conversion" as opposed to the receiver, though. All I know to do is plug my TV and Blu-ray into the receiver's HDMI inputs, then use the receiver's HDMI out back to the TV. I then keep my TV on HDMI 1, and everything goes through my speakers.

[climber]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yeah, don't let the receiver do the conversion... let the tv do it. And don't forget about HDMI switch boxes..

That would entirely depend on the quality of the TV/receiver. Some of the less expensive units certainly do not put high quality scalers inside. The preamp in my setup has one of the best scalers made. Having even my XBR do the upscalling would be dumb.

RAILhead, you really need to find some more room for the receiver. Even if you could find one to fit tightly you should have at least couple of inches above it for cooling. I could see maybe getting it down to an inch as long as it was open in the front and not enclosed behind a glass door or something.

[RAILhead]

Wait -- are y'all saying to use the audio outs of the TV and Blu-ray into the amp/receiver, and use the components' HDMI for video direct into the TV's HDMI inputs?

[badidea]

If you have Blu-ray then neither the receiver nor the TV would have to do any upscaling! That's HD native!
Using HDMI-in on the receiver is perfectly fine!

[iM@k]

As others have said, for height I think you're out of luck, and will have to think of some creative alternative arrangement.


A few months ago I purchased this, and absolutely love it:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_580TXS6...h=sr606&tp=179

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Wait -- are y'all saying to use the audio outs of the TV and Blu-ray into the amp/receiver, and use the components' HDMI for video direct into the TV's HDMI inputs?

Nah.

1) TV audio/video out to receiver. I assume you use some kind of cable or satellite box. Just use HDMI (or component/TOSLINK) out from that to receiver

2) Blu-ray out to receiver (HDMI)

3) Receiver HDMI to TV.

Done.

The Blu-ray will decode the audio from the player and send it to the receiver as decoded MPCM. Your receiver will only do the decoding if you set the Blu-ray player to output bitstream.

[climber]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Wait -- are y'all saying to use the audio outs of the TV and Blu-ray into the amp/receiver, and use the components' HDMI for video direct into the TV's HDMI inputs?

You only need to have HDMI to hook it all up. There is a case where you may want to run an audio line from the display to the receiver though. That is if you are picking up your local HD broadcast channels via an digital tuner in your display and you want that audio to go to your surround speakers. If you get your locals through the Sat/cable box then this setup is not needed.

Another cool arrangement is to run a second set of video and audio cables from your Sat/Cable box directly to the display. On my setup I have a HD component video cable as well as the stereo RCA audio cable set up this way. This allows the TV to be used without the relatively complicated surround sound equipment. This allows my family to watch TV with the standard Direct TV remote. Their remote is very easy to use and integrates the volume with channel changing functions very nicely. If we want to watch a movie and prefer the audio through the surround speakers a programable remote will set it all up with the appropriate macros.

[RAILhead]

Yeah, that's what I do -- our Blu-ray and TiVo HD is HDMI.

Thanks for the help everyone -- I'll keep you posted!

[MOTHERWELL]

I have a Denon receiver. They make some nice stuff.

[Shaddim]

I'm fond of Denon, Onkyo, and Yamaha in that price range, but the issue is the height.

Several Yamahas fit the bill, being <6" tall, but are a bit light on the number of HDMI inputs.


BTW, you can remove the feet, just replace with a shorter bumper or spacer on each corner.

[residentEvil]

or....

get whatever receiver you want; with all the bells and whistles. with some longer HDMI cables as that seems the way you want to do it (all sources into the receiver, one cable out to the TV) and an IR repeater...you can place the receiver someplace else. that leaves the compartment you have now for another toy

[RAILhead]

Yep, that's what we're going to do. While it will mess up my wife's fancy-pants arrangement, she know we need more power too -- so I'm just getting what I want/need and being done with it. So far, here's what I know I'm getting...

1. Polk SurroundBar 50 (150w per chan, 5 chan). I know it's not true 5.1, but it's better than the stock TV, and my wife won't go for anything else.

2. Polk Audio DSW MicroPRO 1000 powered sub. The small size (11"W x 12-5/8"H x 14-3/16"D) will let me put it behind the TV and out of sight. Maybe not ideal, but work with me!

3. For receivers, I'm liking the specs on the Onkyo TXSR806. It's 130w/chan and I like all the features.

[Doofy]

Not being an AV buff, I'm at a loss to understand just why we're talking watts in the 100's.

Are speakers that inefficient these days? I mean, I've heard 25w RMS per side through a JBL Control system and you really wouldn't want to be sitting in the same room as it when up full tilt. Heck, I even rigged a big old church up once with 50 watts a side through some JBLs and it was plenty loud.

I mean, 5 channels of 150 watts is like 750 watts, which is at least 5 Marshall stacks on full tilt. That's like, "call the national guard out" loud.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Yep, that's what we're going to do. While it will mess up my wife's fancy-pants arrangement, she know we need more power too -- so I'm just getting what I want/need and being done with it. So far, here's what I know I'm getting...

1. Polk SurroundBar 50 (150w per chan, 5 chan). I know it's not true 5.1, but it's better than the stock TV, and my wife won't go for anything else.

2. Polk Audio DSW MicroPRO 1000 powered sub. The small size (11"W x 12-5/8"H x 14-3/16"D) will let me put it behind the TV and out of sight. Maybe not ideal, but work with me!

3. For receivers, I'm liking the specs on the Onkyo TXSR806. It's 130w/chan and I like all the features.

i have the polk surroundbar 50 for my living room setup as well. love it. matched it with a polk sub. awesome sound. and if you can sit in front of the speaker at about 12 feet; the virtual surround is pretty damn good actually.

edit: i sit at 8 - 10 feet and it is pretty good too.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Not being an AV buff, I'm at a loss to understand just why we're talking watts in the 100's.

Are speakers that inefficient these days? I mean, I've heard 25w RMS per side through a JBL Control system and you really wouldn't want to be sitting in the same room as it when up full tilt. Heck, I even rigged a big old church up once with 50 watts a side through some JBLs and it was plenty loud.

I mean, 5 channels of 150 watts is like 750 watts, which is at least 5 Marshall stacks on full tilt. That's like, "call the national guard out" loud.

I like everything to be over-the-top.

[ctt1wbw]

Well hell, man. Get yourself some Krell amps, one per speaker for the Definitive Technology's BP3000. That'll wake your neighbors up. Plus a Linn hdtv projector and some McIntosh hardware.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Well hell, man. Get yourself some Krell amps, one per speaker for the Definitive Technology's BP3000. That'll wake your neighbors up. Plus a Linn hdtv projector and some McIntosh hardware.

to Krell, I use them exclusively now. Nothing beats several kilowatts of raw, bone-jarring power.

Hell, just give me a $80k budget and you'd never want to leave your music/HT room again.

[ctt1wbw]

80 grand? Meh. Cheapskate. I could probably spend 200 grand. A whole new addition to the house, custom reclining seats, the curtains, dimming lights, the Whole Nine Yards.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

80 grand? Meh. Cheapskate. I could probably spend 200 grand. A whole new addition to the house, custom reclining seats, the curtains, dimming lights, the Whole Nine Yards.

Actually, that's what I did. I was only quoting the cost of the electronics and speakers. In my case, I have ~$90k in equipment, but prices are down right now.

[ctt1wbw]

Movie time!!! Holy crap, I'd wet myself if I saw your setup. That's one of my dreams is to have a theater in the house.

And 90 grand on electronics??? Speakers and tv you are using?

[Shaddim]

I have an all Wilson setup for speakers. Wilson Audio MAXX, upgraded to S2, for the left and right front channels, Wilson WATCH for center and surrounds. My newest additions are a pair of EBS aligned Memphis LVS SE 15" (custom boxes), they're flat (+/- 2dB) to 13Hz. I really wanted to get a pair of Thor's Hammers, but a friend convinced me that he could build a product that offered identical performance for a fraction of the cost... and he was right.

For TV, I'm currently using a Pioneer Elite PRO-FPJ1, another newish addition, and I really like it. It's configuration options are extensive and it has fantastic black levels and contrast. Will probably stick with it until 2160p units start shipping.

[ctt1wbw]

Those Wilsons look like Daleks from Doctor Who! I bet they sound sweet. I didn't see a price on any website, so I guess the old saying is true: If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

[Shaddim]

New? I think they were ~$65k, without discounts. I picked up mine from a good friend for much (much) less, and had them upgraded to Series 2. There's a Series 3 mod available, but I'm perfectly happy with them the way they are.

[ctt1wbw]

I've never heard of them until now. My level was with Klipsch and such. Some of the best I've heard were the Definitive Tech's BP3000 for movies. Those things rocked. And for music I liked the Martin Logans. But I can't afford stuff like that unless I won a lottery.

[Laminar]

You could just buy them on credit.

[ctt1wbw]

It shouldn't be too hard to save 70 grand in cash. I think I got that under the cushions on the couch.

[Shaddim]

The pre-owned market is really booming right now, it's a great time to buy some slightly used gear at amazing prices.

[ctt1wbw]

Yeah, I can imagine. People needing the cash. If I had the expendable income, I would. But the wife and I have a business, probably another one on the way, plus I gots school to do. I wish...

[brassplayersrock²]

go with whatever ca$h says

hi rob

[RobAutoblog]

I don't know anything about this modern fancy pants HDMI input stuff. My sound system is insane, but it is not intertwined with video inputs. That said, I like vintage gear.... and it's hard to get vintage gear for 5.1 channels or more. My setup is basically the best vintage surround system you can get... so if you want to go the vintage route, copy my decoder choice and whatnot.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

go with whatever ca$h says

hi rob

umm... no.

I like vintage stuff as much as the next guy. Hell, I even have a nifty retro system upstairs in the library. It's nice to warm up the tube gear and give the B&Ws a workout. But, for the best quality I'll stick with the kit in the listening/HT room.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Not being an AV buff, I'm at a loss to understand just why we're talking watts in the 100's.

Are speakers that inefficient these days? I mean, I've heard 25w RMS per side through a JBL Control system and you really wouldn't want to be sitting in the same room as it when up full tilt. Heck, I even rigged a big old church up once with 50 watts a side through some JBLs and it was plenty loud.

I mean, 5 channels of 150 watts is like 750 watts, which is at least 5 Marshall stacks on full tilt. That's like, "call the national guard out" loud.

Unexplained numbers sell overpriced crap to the ill-informed. Bigger is always better. These go to 11.

(I always get a kick out of seeing a "PMPO" rating on a stereo - how many consumers realize that a PMPO of 150W means the stereo will do that exactly ONCE and then never again? Or that it probably starts distorting to hell at 35W? And how many have heard a 10W valve amp that they can only turn up to one-third before the kitchen cabinets start clattering?)

[RAILhead]

Trust me, I know watts and power. I CHOOSE to want that much power because, well, I want it. And yes, my fav guitar amps are point-to-point tubes amps running at 10w and the other at 17w and they're bloody insane -- for guitar.

I want boat-loads of power on tap for my overly-large living area. Period.

[cjrivera]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Actually, that's what I did. I was only quoting the cost of the electronics and speakers. In my case, I have ~$90k in equipment, but prices are down right now.

Let's see some pics of your setup.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Unexplained numbers sell overpriced crap to the ill-informed. Bigger is always better. These go to 11.

(I always get a kick out of seeing a "PMPO" rating on a stereo - how many consumers realize that a PMPO of 150W means the stereo will do that exactly ONCE and then never again? Or that it probably starts distorting to hell at 35W? And how many have heard a 10W valve amp that they can only turn up to one-third before the kitchen cabinets start clattering?)

No joke. Most are rated at the output they achieve right before they explode. There are numerous manufacturers who give fairly honest measurements, but even the best companies tend to fudge the numbers a bit. Case in point, I blew up my old sub amp a couple months ago, and I'm sure I wasn't pushing it that hard (ok, maybe I was, but it should have easily handled the load, according to ratings). Then started the quest to find a solid amp without spending a fortune, I wanted something that would drive them to their limit. A friend hooked me up with a pair of Crown K2s and so far they've been excellent for this application.

Let's see some pics of your setup.

I'll think about it.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'll think about it.

[Shaddim]

exactly