[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

this guy development is very recent.

100:1 she met him before she left you.

I disagree with Doofy: He's probably not the REASON she left. He was a welcome occasion that pushed her to finally do it, even if she might not even be consciously aware of it.

I've had that happen to me, too.

And for quite similar reasons.

We'd never tied the knot, though.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

100:1 she met him before she left you.

I disagree with Doofy: He's probably not the REASON she left. He was a welcome occasion that pushed her to finally do it, even if she might not even be consciously aware of it.

Physically left, I mean. Her heart/brain left a while back. He was the tipping point - if she'd never have met him, her and Rob would still be simulating a marriage.

[stwain2003]

Most people will think I'm a troll by saying this, but I'm not trying to be.

My advice to you is to read the Bible. It's gotten me through many a tough time, and I found that the love of God is with me always.

[andi*pandi]

this will go well.

[- - e r i k - -]

Again with the bible pushing? Obviously you don't know Rob

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Again with the bible pushing? Obviously you don't know Rob

Did *YOU* know the Rob that has been posting here for the last 2 weeks ?

I didn't.

-t

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Physically left, I mean. Her heart/brain left a while back. He was the tipping point - if she'd never have met him, her and Rob would still be simulating a marriage.

I'd bet we'd be saving it.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

100:1 she met him before she left you.

1000:1 he's the dashing, silver-tongued, occultist/wiccan type and she met him at a BotA or pagan function. If this is the case, getting her away from him will be damned near impossible.

[downinflames68]

Why would you say that? Just to piss me off? And no, as far as I know I think he has some boring ass engineering job.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I'd bet we'd be saving it.

Terry Schiavo-style.

Edit: If meeting that guy seriously made the difference, that means that your relationship was already dead and on life-support.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I'd bet we'd be saving it.

Non-sense, you wouldn't. You better kill that thought before its conception. The point is that your lack of attention (which is reasonable when you have a tough time completing school and all) caused her to lose faith in you and your ability to be a good partner in crime.

So even if she hadn't met her new guy, your relationship would continue for perhaps a bit longer, but it would have been dead on the inside and doomed to fail. If she hadn't made the decision to break up with you, (and please just answer this to yourself) would you have completely shifted your focus from your career to her or would you have just continued on your own path?

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by stwain2003 

\
My advice to you is to read the Bible. It's gotten me through many a tough time, and I found that the love of God is with me always.

You know xanax would have been easier and I hear its more convenient to keep in your pocket than god's love.

[Face Ache]

Design a toilet plunger and name it after her.

You'll feel better.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Design a toilet plunger and name it after her.

You'll feel better.

Excellent suggestion.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Design a toilet plunger and name it after her.

You'll feel better.

-t

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Motivated you to do what exactly? My career is just starting off, and going good. I'm working on becoming a better person. So.. just keep on keepin' on? I guess. I just can't believe it's over. We were literally best friends... I cannot believe she didn't wait until AFTER school was over. That's what I don't get. I understand all of my mistakes a bit better now, therefore I understand her desire to get a divorce. I get that.

But I don't get the timing. If you were with someone for years, and they were in the middle of their last semster, working on their final project like crazy, why would you try to dump them then, when they have the least chance of trying to work things out? Why wouldn't you wait an extra month, even if you were miserable, to see what happens? I didn't treat her badly, I just wasn't AROUND. I started accepting her voodoo science stuff about 1 year ago, and came to the conclusion that if she feels it helps her, I would support it. I supported her yoga classes, and I supported her desire to become a yoga instructor.

And sorry Doofy, I asked some of her friends, and this guy development is very recent.

Rob,

You still don't get it. Not being around IS treating her badly. It shows that you regard your individual interests as more important than the collective interests of the relationship.

[ringo]

Having an aggressive work/school life can be in the collective interests of the relationship. Bills don't pay themselves and education leads to greater future earnings. School ends and things get back to where they started, but everyone has more money and/or a more satisfying work life. Both parties usually understand this.

Move on. Find someone who doesn't need to run around naked in the woods to feel special. Be happy that the relationship is ending now when you're fresh out of school. She's letting you off easy...someone more conniving would just screw around behind your back while you advanced your career, waiting to file for divorce when there was more at stake financially.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Rob,

You still don't get it. Not being around IS treating her badly. It shows that you regard your individual interests as more important than the collective interests of the relationship.

True... but it was only temporary. I thought she understood this. Basically waht I meant was that things weren't god awful... and I have definitely achieved a lot, so it's not like I was gone all the time slacking. I still just don't get the timing. I think I am feeling more comfortable with it.. it's just taking me some time.

[turtle777]

Don't beat yourself up too much over trying to understand her timing and motivation.

And consider that it might have been much more than just you not being around for her; who knows, she might not be the person you thought she was all those years. Perhaps she was just waiting to find an excuse to act on what she wanted to do anyways (i.e. leaving you).

-t

[downinflames68]

yes, but this is what I'm struggling with. We made our vows together, to not give up when **** got hard, as it inevitably does. She broke that promise.

So as much as she was unhappy, isn't she the failure here? I mean... I'm still willing to work on things. I'm still willing to change. I'm still wanting to get through the problems. ... I mean.... every summer, our relationship would improve, because I wasn't bogged down with homework and projects. And every semester, it would get rocky. So she dumped me, knowing that it is always rocky during the school year, before I ever had a chance to improve or work on anything.

This is what I'm not understanding.

[turtle777]

I feel you. It seems like you have changed much more than she has (been willing to).

Obviously, the total amount of change necessary to make this relationship work in the long run was not reached. I would blame her for that, too.

I understand how this is mind-boggling, and that you try to analyze and understand it. That's what men do - trying to make sense of things, even the irrational things of life.
At the end of the day, this won't win her back, even IF you figured it all out. Women make choices based on a completely different set of "facts" than men. You will never fully understand why she did the things the way she did. Heck, she will probably not understand it either.

-t

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Did *YOU* know the Rob that has been posting here for the last 2 weeks ?

I didn't.

-t

Fair point

[Kerrigan]

From what I can discern, the catalyst that terminated the relationship was your admission that you were having feelings for another woman. Yes, there were definitely structural problems with the relationship - she was pulling one way, you were going the other way - and these problems would likely have lead to a divorce in any scenario, BUT the catalyst was telling your wife that you had feelings for another woman.

I'm not married and never have been, but from my experience with relationships, you should never tell your s/o that you have feelings for another woman especially if there are already underlying problems and/or you are early on the relationship.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

yes, but this is what I'm struggling with. We made our vows together, to not give up when **** got hard, as it inevitably does. She broke that promise.

She would probably say that you broke that promise. You gave up by not being there.

So as much as she was unhappy, isn't she the failure here?

You both failed. Take it like a man.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

From what I can discern, the catalyst that terminated the relationship was your admission that you were having feelings for another woman. Yes, there were definitely structural problems with the relationship - she was pulling one way, you were going the other way - and these problems would likely have lead to a divorce in any scenario, BUT the catalyst was telling your wife that you had feelings for another woman.

I'm not married and never have been, but from my experience with relationships, you should never tell your s/o that you have feelings for another woman especially if there are already underlying problems and/or you are early on the relationship.

Eh, no. **** was confusing for a bit... yeah... but I've always been open with her about that sorta thing. I told her about it a long time ago... and it was settled. Just because you like a new car, doesn't mean you want to ditch your old one, even to just test drive it. >shrug<

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

She would probably say that you broke that promise. You gave up by not being there.

I wasn't there, but I was clear I wanted to work on things, as soon as I was finished with school.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I wasn't there, but I was clear I wanted to work on things, as soon as I was finished with school.

Relationships don't work like that.

Metaphor alert: If you put off watering your plants until after you're done with school, they will wither and die.

There is a point after which things simply won't bounce back.

Invest the effort or do without.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Metaphor alert: If you put off watering your plants until after you're done with school, they will wither and die.

Personification alert: Shoulda gotten a cactus.

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Personification alert: Shoulda gotten a cactus.

-t

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I wasn't there, but I was clear I wanted to work on things, as soon as I was finished with school.

So again she was way down on your list of priorities. And again you don't seem to get that this was a problem for her. And again, this is all about what you wanted to do, not her.

Marriages work when both partners make the other person's happiness their priority. You made your own needs your priority, and by the looks of it you continue to do so. Now that you're faced with the consequences you don't like them, but instead of looking for ways to learn from the experience, you're looking for ways to blame somebody else.

[ringo]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Marriages work when both partners make the other person's happiness their priority.

From my experience as someone married fourteen years and counting, your milage may vary:

Marriages work when both partners find ways to pursue their individual paths to happiness in a harmonious way. It is extraordinarily lazy to expect someone else to *make* you happy. Always promoting someone else's happiness as more important that your own is a sure-fire recipe for either disappointment and resentment or unhealthy dependence years later.

The limits to this are those things that break the contract of marriage, however it was defined by the two parties when that contract was made. An extreme example: If I wish to find happiness by sleeping with my wife's sister then that would violate the rules of my marriage. At that point I would either have to decide to find a more harmonious way to find the happiness I would have gained from that act or end my relationship with my wife.

[andi*pandi]

One thing my husband learned from his ex and counselling and blahdeblah, is that communication is key. Kristin can't blame Rob for not being there, if she never told him how she was feeling. That it came out of the blue to him may be about him being clueless, but also she didn't communicate. If she had said something, and Rob failed to address the issue, then she would have a complaint. Maybe she did say something, and we internet armchair quarterback counselors don't know about it. Rob?

I say again, the vows are in sickness and in health, good times and bad. If your spouse is busy with legitimate pursuits (working overtime to support you, taking classes, caring for ill family members, training for a marathon to benefit brain cancer ) it's not a reason to end a marriage. Perhaps it was just the excuse.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

One thing my husband learned from his ex and counselling and blahdeblah, is that communication is key. Kristin can't blame Rob for not being there, if she never told him how she was feeling. That it came out of the blue to him may be about him being clueless, but also she didn't communicate. If she had said something, and Rob failed to address the issue, then she would have a complaint.
.

-t

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Eh, no. **** was confusing for a bit... yeah... but I've always been open with her about that sorta thing. I told her about it a long time ago... and it was settled. Just because you like a new car, doesn't mean you want to ditch your old one, even to just test drive it. >shrug<

OK, whatever dude.

In any case, I'm sad that this happened to you, but it sounds like you're headed towards bigger and better things.

[downinflames68]

Well, I'm still lost. I stopped by her apartment to play with our dog a few weeks ago, since I was in town. She gave me permission, since it's her place now. She had the card I sent her a few weeks ago on her desk, on top of everything, and I didn't see any new bottles/cans anywhere. Her best friend apparently now has a boyfriend, so I'm not sure how that changes the dynamic of her "sex in the city trio", ... and... I talked to a mutual friend, and she's still complaining/bitching about me all the time. He says she's not over me at all. She's pissed off, and she doesn't think I can change...but... she hasn't forgotten about me at all.

I called her a few days ago, just to chat, and she was pissed at me for calling her, and wants me to just give up on trying to fix things. She also said she feels no love for me whatsoever, and that I mean nothing more to her than the average person on the street.

See... so now I'm confused. Obviously that isn't true. You cannot spend 7.5 years with someone, being that close, and have them mean nothing whatsoever. She is mad at me, sure... but that is BS. Some more of our mutual friends are telling me what she is SAYING to me, and what she WANTS are two different animals completely. So. I'm confused. As per usual.

[zerostar]

Why don't you be straight up with her. Admit you ****ed up, you were wayyy wrong and you are sorry for it. Tell her you can change and you see your faults, you know you aren't perfect and don't ever expect to be.

Tell her that you feel (never tell her she DID or DIDN'T do this or that, that verbal attacking closes communications.) that she never expressed what the problems were. Tell her you are so sorry if you did miss the problems and you would really like to hear what those are even if its just to help you with relationships in the future. You both deserve that Rob.

I highly recommend a book called "Communication Miracles for Couples" the paperback version is like $6 or something at Barnes & Noble.\ Some of the things inside may seem silly but its very very effective. I have lent this book out more than probably any other book I own.

Anyways, feel free to msg me if you need anything else, or hit me on AIM... later!

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Well, I'm still lost.
You cannot spend 7.5 years with someone, being that close, and have them mean nothing whatsoever.

Oh no, that is totally possible.
It sounds like it shouldn't be but it happens more than one would think.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I talked to a mutual friend, and she's still complaining/bitching about me all the time. He says she's not over me at all. She's pissed off, and she doesn't think I can change...but... she hasn't forgotten about me at all.

This means absolutely nothing as far as salvaging your relationship is concerned. I haven't remotely forgotten the bullshit I put up with with an abusive ex-boyfriend of mine. That doesn't mean I want him back. I means I want him to get run over by a semi.

I'm not saying your ex necessarily has such murderous feelings toward you, but remembering you is not an indication of fond remembrance. It's just as likely that it's bitterness and anger and the start of her getting past the dissolution of the relationship.

I called her a few days ago, just to chat, and she was pissed at me for calling her, and wants me to just give up on trying to fix things.

Makes sense to me. From what you've written for the most part in this thread, you're unabashedly desperate to get her back. Unless a girl has absolutely no self-esteem, that's a huge turn off - and a red flag about what you really want back, and whether or not a second go would actually work.

Incidentally, the worst ex of my previous boyfriends spent months begging for me to come back. He sent me gifts and flowers, wrote poetry, sent me emails about how much he missed me and how he realized he had mistreated me. I ended up back in a relationship with him, and nothing had changed. I finally dumped him for good.

None of us here can really pass realistic judgment on your relationship thus far, but if you're presenting yourself to your ex with either an air of desperation or an air of "what the hell is wrong with you; you promised you'd stick to it for life", she's not going to have a real good reason to give you a second chance.

She also said she feels no love for me whatsoever, and that I mean nothing more to her than the average person on the street. See... so now I'm confused. Obviously that isn't true. You cannot spend 7.5 years with someone, being that close, and have them mean nothing whatsoever. She is mad at me, sure... but that is BS.

Not necessarily. You were together for 7.5 years, but are you certain that she was wholeheartedly committed to the relationship on all levels - particularly the deeper emotional level - for the duration of your relationship? If she started shutting down after four years of school and other BS from you, you're long gone from her heart.

It seems like if you get her back, it's only going to be from coercion and begging and what she may very likely see as empty promises. That's not a good foundation for rebuilding a shattered relationship.

Some more of our mutual friends are telling me what she is SAYING to me, and what she WANTS are two different animals completely. So. I'm confused. As per usual.

Honey, she's a woman. It's likely that the want-vs-say discrepancies will abound for the rest of her existence (and yours, in regards to any other woman you meet). I think you greatly underestimate the difference between how men and women think and operate.

Why is it that you really want her back? Is it because you don't want to become another divorce statistic? Is it an ego issue, where you feel like you have to give it the ol' college try before you're willing to admit defeat? Is it because you want to be right and prove her wrong, that it really can work? Is it because you truly love her with all your heart and cannot possibility comprehend meeting anyone else who blows your mind away as much as she does? What will you gain by getting her back, particularly if she's not remotely as committed to the relationship as you are?

Once a person has been badly burned by someone in a relationship, there is a huge lack of trust on their part. Rebuilding that could take months, years, or so long that you never really fix the damage. If she's already moved on in her mind, then she's already begun the breakup process and moved past the emotional stage that you're still in. It seems to me that trying to get her back is futile - it's time to look to what the future has to offer the new you.

[Spheric Harlot]

^ wholeheartedly agree.

[ebuddy]

I second the "wholeheartedly agree" and I might add;

Originally Posted by ebuddy

I find more often than not there is also another guy involved in some capacity. (4 of 4 in the situations around me) (5 of 5 in the situations around me now) I'm just sayin'. This helps the ol' resolve for them. Then, all your little quirks that used to be clever and cute are now disgusting and annoying and it becomes simply unacceptable to remain with you. Once they've gone there, there is no going back for them.

She's moved on. If you're not careful, she'll not only treat you oddly for someone who's been your friend for 7.5 years, but she'll treat you worse than a complete stranger who stole her car and ran over her dog with it.

[brassplayersrock²]

She's over you. If you love her, just walk away. You're only making things worse by trying to be in her life.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

If you love her, just walk away.

That's gotta be either a Matchbox 20 song or post-90s Goo Goo Dolls, right?

greg

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

That's gotta be either a Matchbox 20 song or post-90s Goo Goo Dolls, right?

greg

i prefer to think Motley Crue's "Don't Go Away Mad (Just Go Away)" is more fitting

[macbear85]

My sincerest apologies for your pain. My bf of three yrs and I parted, for good reason, I chased and chased till my body and mind numbed. Have you seen UP? He was my 'Carl', my best friend, an amazing person and the most honest man I know and when he left I naturally sought him for help.

The only advice I can give is that you have to walk away and accept it. You know who you are, who you want to be, so just be...if she really loves the person you are than maybe she'll come back, who knows. They say "fight for what you love", but you can't push for love if it's not reciprocated, it's only unfair to her and you love her. Probably not a good idea to get involved with others, your heart is elsewhere.

Self-help books are garbage; no one experiences the pain in your heart as you do, but follow the suggestions offered. Many of them such as exercise, meditating, and surrounding yourself with people you love are all things you should be doing anyway.

[downinflames68]

Wow Macnn just ate my post. That is irritating. Maybe i will rewrite it later.

[downinflames68]

Well, small update: I'm doing a lot better. Been going on some dates... have a few of them after me. I realized that I need to just not give a ****, and they start pursuing me. It's like a dog. If you run at a dog to catch it, the dog runs away. If you run away from the dog, it chases you. Seems women are the same way. Lately I've been going out with some other single people, and I get lots of phone numbers. I'm pretty social, funny, and intelligent, and getting girls talking and getting their digits is super easy for me... but once I'm sober, I never call them again. I don't know why I keep doing this. I'm guessing it's because really I'd still prefer things to work out, even though I know they probably won't.

I made $3000 in the past 3 weeks doing freelance work, and I have a job interview in Chicago at a design consultancy next week. I'm approaching a major fork in the road, and I'm unsure of what to do, or what will happen to me.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Prediction: your post will not amuse some people

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

1000:1 he's the dashing, silver-tongued, occultist/wiccan type and she met him at a BotA or pagan function. If this is the case, getting her away from him will be damned near impossible.

Yeah, the best thing about the whole pagan thing is the crunchy granola chicks you can pick up. If you can get past the hairy pits, they are WILDCATS in the sack.

Sorry for your woes Rob, but if she's looking for someone else, then it's over. And it's at least 100:1 she knew the guy before. Sounds like she's looking for new things. And at that age, it's pretty common to get distracted easily.

My advice is to move on as soon as you can. If that's a couple of years, so what? Starting now will make it go faster.

[The Godfather]

From experience:

The best you could do toward her is give her the divorce and space she wants, and abandon all interests in her.

Be a friend, if she wants it.

Go on dates. Don't look for a rebound. Take care of yourself.

Find out about your rights, 'cause that path she's chosen isn't exactly a boulder of economic stability. She's chosen to be independent.