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ARK · Feb 27, 2004, 11:48 AM

Last year I posted how I was considering the purchase of a new video card for my Quicksilver dual 1Ghz machine. One of which vidoe cards was the NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti. I notice MacMall has very few of these left now. So Im thinking if Im going to get something I need to do it soon.

So with that, what video card is my best bet for my Quicksilver dual 1Ghz machine? The NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti or something from ATI? Im not familiar with my options that ATI delivers.

The Quicksilver has a AGP 4X graphics slot. The options at the time of purchase were Radeon 7500, GeForce 4MX (have in it now), or GeForce4 Ti.

BTW. I do some design at home but mostly gaming.

Thanks for your help.

The Placid Casual · Feb 27, 2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by ARK:
Last year I posted how I was considering the purchase of a new video card for my Quicksilver dual 1Ghz machine. One of which vidoe cards was the NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti. I notice MacMall has very few of these left now. So Im thinking if Im going to get something I need to do it soon.

So with that, what video card is my best bet for my Quicksilver dual 1Ghz machine? The NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti or something from ATI? Im not familiar with my options that ATI delivers.

The Quicksilver has a AGP 4X graphics slot. The options at the time of purchase were Radeon 7500, GeForce 4MX (have in it now), or GeForce4 Ti.

BTW. I do some design at home but mostly gaming.

Thanks for your help.

Hi,

Can't really advise about the new card (Perhaps Radeon 8500 Mac edition, or even a 9800 Pro?), but if you want to sell the GF4 MX when you get the new card, any chance you could drop me an email as I would be *very* interested!

grae_a · Feb 27, 2004, 12:49 PM

I bought a NVidia 4 Ti for my quicksilver 800 Mhz and would personally recommend it as its got the power for most game graphics (Halo runs very nicely on high settings and other games are good too) and I'd guess would be ok for design (i don't use any design packages)
The only possible downside i could see is that with it being a relatively older card, it may not have the features of newer cards like the ati 9800 but does well with what it can do

I'm not that sure about the other available cards as my only other recent one was the stock ati 7500 from my machine
For a good price on the NVidia, check out where I bought mine from :
http://store.yahoo.com/lovemacs/nv.html
The service was prompt and the card was fine, even after overseas delivery

Good Luck
Grae

CIA · Feb 27, 2004, 01:02 PM

Why not go all out and slap a ATI 9800 in there?

iamnotmad · Feb 27, 2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by CIA:
Why not go all out and slap a ATI 9800 in there?

The 9800 does not have an ADC port does it?

ARK · Feb 27, 2004, 01:29 PM

MacMall states that the 9800 does not have an ADC connector.

Originally posted by iamnotmad:
The 9800 does not have an ADC port does it?

Boochie · Feb 27, 2004, 01:40 PM

I have a G4/867 (single CPU). I upgraded the stock GeForce 2MX to a GeForce 4Ti, and wow! It made a huge difference in gaming performance. I can play most first-person shooters (Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight II, Halo, MoH) at 1024x768 with pretty good detail, or 1280x1024 at low detail.

Leonard · Feb 27, 2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by ARK:
MacMall states that the 9800 does not have an ADC connector.

Any retail card you get will NOT have ADC. You'd have to find an OEM card to get ADC. I assume you have a Apple LCD screen with an ADC connector? Where were you going to get a Geforce 4 Ti with ADC? Apple OEM Geforce 4 Ti cards are the only Geforce 4 Ti cards with ADC.

I would think the only place you'll find a card with ADC is a used card such as those found on eBay.

MindFad · Feb 27, 2004, 08:10 PM

The retail versions of the Radeon 9000 and GeForce 4 Ti come with ADC ports.

Leonard · Feb 27, 2004, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
The retail versions of the Radeon 9000 and GeForce 4 Ti come with ADC ports.

I stand corrected... the retail Radeon 9000 does have ADC. Who sells the Geforce 4 TI with ADC? I didn't notice it on Apple's site, anymore or did Mac retailers buy a few from Apple before Apple took discontinued it?

ARK · Feb 27, 2004, 11:29 PM

Mac retailers list the card with ADC connector and say that Apple is the manufacturer.

So comparisons here.. Radeon 9000 vs. GeForce4 Ti?

BTW, Im using a GeForce4 MX.

Originally posted by Leonard:
I stand corrected... the retail Radeon 9000 does have ADC. Who sells the Geforce 4 TI with ADC? I didn't notice it on Apple's site, anymore or did Mac retailers buy a few from Apple before Apple took discontinued it?

Link · Feb 28, 2004, 12:04 AM

If you're good with a soldering iron you can modify a radeon 9600 to fit in a g4...

Then again I wouldn't do this.

The radeon 9000 isn't going to be much of a difference.

There might be another in between 9000 and 9800 that does have ADC and works in g4s but I doubt it ..

4ti is still MUCH MUCH better than a 4mx (I wish I could have a 4ti!)

MindFad · Feb 28, 2004, 03:43 AM

The GeForce 4 Ti utterly destroys the 9000, but it is as much as 9800, which beats the crap out of a GF4 Ti. But the 9800 lacks ADC. Tough cookie. Personally, I'd rather a 9800 and a poopy VGA monitor.

I really wish ATI would offer a 9600 retail version for some kind of middle ground. And give us a 9800XT for G5s already.

rhogue islander · Feb 28, 2004, 10:01 AM

If any of you care to buy a geforce4ti, I have one for sale.

$250 including shipping within the continental US.

Truepop · Feb 28, 2004, 11:14 AM

The reason why the ATi 9800 Pro doesn't have an ADC port they said is that the OEM version that does have ADC uses a new power feature only found in 8x AGP but the Retail is marketed to 4x and 8x so in order to expand the market of the card, they dropped ADC so the card wouldn't have to be completely re-done to work on a 4x computer.

In short the Retail will work on a 4x and 8x computer while the OEM will only work in an 8x computer.

Truepop · Feb 28, 2004, 11:20 AM

If you can't find a used one, there is a GeForce 4 Ti Card at We Love Macs for $309. About a month and a half ago they had a better price at $249.

http://store.yahoo.com/lovemacs/nv.html

I recommend the GeFroce 4 Ti for a G4. That's about as great as it gets unless you get a G5 and go with ATi.

ARK · Feb 28, 2004, 02:24 PM

Youve got mail.

Originally posted by rhogue islander:
If any of you care to buy a geforce4ti, I have one for sale.

$250 including shipping within the continental US.

rambo47 · Feb 28, 2004, 03:01 PM

Although lots of folks badmout eBay, they do have just about everything mankind has ever made. Several GeForce4 Ti's are offered right now:

here and here. 3 days left on each auction and current bids are around $20. One is by a Mac user who just upgraded to a G5 tower and can't reuse the card. Worth a look, especially at those prices!

Luca Rescigno · Feb 28, 2004, 03:16 PM

Yeah, I was going to say my brother got a GeForce 4Ti for his Quicksilver for a bit over $200 on eBay.

By the way, you'll notice that one of those guys has removed the excess PCB from the back of the card. The other one, though, is fully intact. I don't know why all that extra blank circuit board was left at the end, but it ends up making the card take up the full length of the Quicksilver's case.

Link · Feb 28, 2004, 07:17 PM

Try the radeon 9700. I found this last night..

http://store.yahoo.com/lovemacs/109a0650000.html

Refurb but I'd hope that works. If not you can always send it back and grab a 4ti hehe.

I think the 9700 will destroy the 4ti and has ADC to boot

MindFad · Feb 28, 2004, 08:58 PM

Holy crap. But will that 9700 Pro work in a dual 800, I wonder?

Luca Rescigno · Feb 28, 2004, 09:39 PM

I don't see why not. The 9700 was a BTO option with the Dual 1.42 GHz and the other PowerMacs in that line. It's not the exact same motherboard as the dual 800, but it uses the same AGP 4x slot.

MindFad · Feb 28, 2004, 09:50 PM

Interesting.... Hmm, now where to get $260....

ARK · 10:13 PM

Looks like that 9700 was a build to order option in the 2003 Mirror drive door G4. That machine used a AGP x4 slot so it should work. Heck its cheaper than the Ti.

Was the 9700 superior to the Ti?

I have the $260.. maybe this is my answer for my video card.

Originally posted by MindFad:
Holy crap. But will that 9700 Pro work in a dual 800, I wonder?

Link · Feb 28, 2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Holy crap. But will that 9700 Pro work in a dual 800, I wonder?

I hope..

as for the $260.. same here :| damn.

Link · Feb 28, 2004, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Holy crap. But will that 9700 Pro work in a dual 800, I wonder?

I hope..

as for the $260.. same here :| damn.

DBvader · Feb 28, 2004, 10:36 PM

The 9600s from G5s can be used with the Quicksilver. I use one in my MDD Dual 867, and my game performance has become so much better than what it was with my stock Radeon 9000.

They can be had or pretty cheap on ebay (I sold my 9000 for more than I bought my 9600 for).

I would put the performance of this card between the GeForce Ti and the 9700/9800s

Cadaver · Feb 29, 2004, 10:59 AM

The extra length on the Apple OEM GeForce 4 Ti cards were to stop it from rocking and becoming damaged when shipped pre-installed in the computer. It was apparently coming loose (rev. 1 of the card), so Apple began extending the card to slide in to the PCI card guides at the front of the motherboard.

The Apple OEM GF 4 Ti is a dual-head card and has ADC and DVI connectors. This is the only GF 4 Ti card that will reliably work in a Mac. Flashing PC GF4 cards typically doesn't work.

The Apple OEM Radeon 9700 Pro may work in a Quicksilver, but nothing earlier. I'm pretty sure that for what ever reason it'll only run correctly in MDD machines. ADC and DVi ports. This card was never available at retail - it was replaced by the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition at retail.

The (retail-only) Radeon 8500 (has DVI and VGA ports) is about equal to an Apple GeForce 3 card (ADC and VGA ports). The Radeon 8500 is a dual-head card while the Apple OEM GF3 is not. I had a GeForce 3 in my Dual 800MHz Quicksilver and it was a very nice graphics card.

The Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition (retail) has DVI and VGA ports. It does not have an ADC connector. The Apple OEM Radeon 9800 is a G5-only card (AGP Pro slot). It will not work in a G4-based Mac. It does, however, have ADC and DVI ports.

The Apple OEM Radeon 9600 Pro is an AGP 8x only card, and requires a minor hardware hack to work in a G4-based Mac (to step down the AGP 8x lock). Note that the motherboard power connector for the ADC port is in a different spot (designed for G5s specifically) than found on G4 motherboards, so the ADC port will not power an ADC monitor when installed (with hack) in a G4. The ADC port will still work as a DVI port (via ADC to DVI cable adapter) or VGA port. The OEM Radeon 9600 is a dual-head card.

I do not know if anyone has tried one of the Apple OEM nvidia 5200FX cards from a G5 in a G4-based Mac. Regardless, you're better off with a Radeon 9800 retail or a GeForce 4 Ti.

The Apple OEM GeForce 4 Ti is still available for sale on the Apple Online Store. It is only officially supported on AGP 4x machines.

ARK · Feb 29, 2004, 04:04 PM

Thanks for this. I can't for the life of me find where the GF4 Ti is on the Apple Store. The only place I see it is as an option for the MDD G4. How much is Apple selling it for?

Originally posted by Cadaver:
The extra length on the Apple OEM GeForce 4 Ti cards were to stop it from rocking and becoming damaged when shipped pre-installed in the computer. It was apparently coming loose (rev. 1 of the card), so Apple began extending the card to slide in to the PCI card guides at the front of the motherboard.

The Apple OEM GF 4 Ti is a dual-head card and has ADC and DVI connectors. This is the only GF 4 Ti card that will reliably work in a Mac. Flashing PC GF4 cards typically doesn't work.

The Apple OEM Radeon 9700 Pro may work in a Quicksilver, but nothing earlier. I'm pretty sure that for what ever reason it'll only run correctly in MDD machines. ADC and DVi ports. This card was never available at retail - it was replaced by the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition at retail.

The (retail-only) Radeon 8500 (has DVI and VGA ports) is about equal to an Apple GeForce 3 card (ADC and VGA ports). The Radeon 8500 is a dual-head card while the Apple OEM GF3 is not. I had a GeForce 3 in my Dual 800MHz Quicksilver and it was a very nice graphics card.

The Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition (retail) has DVI and VGA ports. It does not have an ADC connector. The Apple OEM Radeon 9800 is a G5-only card (AGP Pro slot). It will not work in a G4-based Mac. It does, however, have ADC and DVI ports.

The Apple OEM Radeon 9600 Pro is an AGP 8x only card, and requires a minor hardware hack to work in a G4-based Mac (to step down the AGP 8x lock). Note that the motherboard power connector for the ADC port is in a different spot (designed for G5s specifically) than found on G4 motherboards, so the ADC port will not power an ADC monitor when installed (with hack) in a G4. The ADC port will still work as a DVI port (via ADC to DVI cable adapter) or VGA port. The OEM Radeon 9600 is a dual-head card.

I do not know if anyone has tried one of the Apple OEM nvidia 5200FX cards from a G5 in a G4-based Mac. Regardless, you're better off with a Radeon 9800 retail or a GeForce 4 Ti.

The Apple OEM GeForce 4 Ti is still available for sale on the Apple Online Store. It is only officially supported on AGP 4x machines.

Luca Rescigno · Feb 29, 2004, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by ARK:
How much is Apple selling it for?

Too much. $350 or $400 I think. Just get one on eBay.

Cadaver · Mar 1, 2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by ARK:
Thanks for this. I can't for the life of me find where the GF4 Ti is on the Apple Store. The only place I see it is as an option for the MDD G4. How much is Apple selling it for?

Hey, you seem to be right...
It used to be on there, in the Displays section, even fairly recently.
I know it can be found at various Apple parts online dealers, and I also know that the CompUSA in West Palm Beach, FL, still had a couple sitting on a shelf (with the PowerBook batteries, AirPorts cards, etc) in the Apple section as of 8 weeks ago. They've been sitting on that shelf for at least 12 months, and may well still be there.

Leonard · Mar 1, 2004, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
But the 9800 lacks ADC. Tough cookie. Personally, I'd rather a 9800 and a poopy VGA monitor. I really wish ATI would offer a 9600 retail version for some kind of middle ground. And give us a 9800XT for G5s already.

There is supposed to be a new Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition with ADC and 256MB video RAM coming out sometime (I didn't see a release date) for PowerMac G5s only.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/01/07/ati/

Sounds like what you want MindFad.

Cadaver · Mar 1, 2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Leonard:
There is supposed to be a new Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition with ADC and 256MB video RAM coming out sometime (I didn't see a release date) for PowerMac G5s only.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/01/07/ati/

Sounds like what you want MindFad.

This (G5 only) card has so far been delayed twice. First, per the ATI press-release, it was supposed to be out at the end of January. Then, per a posting by an ATI employee on xlr8yourmac.com, it was supposed to be out by the end of February.

We'll see if it actually materializes. $460.

BTW, this is not the faster-clocked Radeon 9800XT, but a Radeon 9800 Pro. We can only hope and prey that the card was delayed to wedge in an XT core instead.

ARK · Mar 2, 2004, 10:06 AM

So is a NVIDIA GForce4 Ti going to be plug and play on 10.3.2? No software and no drivers needed, etc? I should be able to just plug it in, start it up, turn on Unreal 2004 Demo and start enjoying the new video card?

cesious · Mar 2, 2004, 10:49 AM

Thanks guys, I was just thinking about all this the other day. What is the cheapest decent Video Upgrade card for a Quicksilver? I just don't have $250 to spend

rhogue islander · Mar 2, 2004, 11:51 AM

Yes, installation will essentially be plug and play. The necessary drivers are already present in your OS.

The driver CD that comes with those cards is for OS 9 drivers only.

Luca Rescigno · Mar 2, 2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by cesious:
Thanks guys, I was just thinking about all this the other day. What is the cheapest decent Video Upgrade card for a Quicksilver? I just don't have $250 to spend

It depends on which graphics card you currently have. Which model of Quicksilver is it? If you have, say, a 733 MHz one, then you might have a GeForce 2MX. Upgrading to a GeForce 4MX should cost about $80. Upgrading to a Radeon 9000 will cost about $120. Of course, if you have something like an 800, 867, or 933 MHz PowerMac, you might already have a GeForce 4MX or Radeon 9000, and the only worthwhile upgrades if you have one of those later cards would be to get a $200-$250 card.

Leonard · Mar 2, 2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by cesious:
Thanks guys, I was just thinking about all this the other day. What is the cheapest decent Video Upgrade card for a Quicksilver? I just don't have $250 to spend

What do you have for a video card right now? You'd want something that is an improvement over your current card. Do you have the standard Geforce 2MX (I think most Quicksilvers came standard with a Geforce 2MX), a Geforce 3, or a Radeon of some sort?

Also, what do you use your Mac for? Do you play 3D games?

ARK · Mar 2, 2004, 01:49 PM

Mine came with a GeForce4 MX. It was a Quicksilver 2002 model. Earlier Quicksilvers must have come with the 2 MX and 3's.

I probably will sell my 4 MX if I get a Ti and it works flawlessly.

Originally posted by Leonard:
What do you have for a video card right now? You'd want something that is an improvement over your current card. Do you have the standard Geforce 2MX (I think most Quicksilvers came standard with a Geforce 2MX), a Geforce 3, or a Radeon of some sort?

Also, what do you use your Mac for? Do you play 3D games?

Link · Mar 2, 2004, 09:25 PM

Yeah I have the same 4mx you do. Mine was upgraded when they found there was some serious flaw in my 2mx's card and it caused some nasty video errors when in the shop.

:shrugs; If you can you might as well look into a geforce 3 or radeon 8500 then?

The 9600 DO work in g4s but the ADC jack is further back, meaning you have to make your own extension in order to power the ADC port.

iamnotmad · 11:08 AM

So does anyone know for sure if a 9700 pro w/adc&DVI will work in a quciksilver DP 800?
Thanks!

Cadaver · Mar 3, 2004, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by iamnotmad:
So does anyone know for sure if a 9700 pro w/adc&DVI will work in a quciksilver DP 800?
Thanks!

The following link from xlr8yourmac.com seems to suggest the Radeon 9700 will only work on MDD G4s. It may not work correctly (or at all) with the Quicksilver.
However, you may want to try it anyway. If it doesn't work, you could sell it I'd think pretty easily.

cesious · Mar 3, 2004, 03:00 PM

I have a Geforce 4MX. I read somewhere that even though the Radeon 9000 didn't provide anymore VRAM (the same 64MB) it was much faster in all the real world game tests.

Luca Rescigno · Mar 3, 2004, 05:23 PM

It might be faster, but probably not enough of an improvement to justify the $120 or so price on eBay. A better choice would be the Radeon 8500, which should be around $150. You can sell your GeForce 4MX for about $70 as well, and the Radeon 8500 is faster than the Radeon 9000, and will probably show a modest improvement in most games.

Don't go overboard spending money to play games, though. Seriously... Macs just suck for games. If you want some kick-ass gaming, buy a PC or a console.

Cadaver · Mar 3, 2004, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Seriously... Macs just suck for games. If you want some kick-ass gaming, buy a PC or a console.

Perhaps true for the G4 machines, but my G5 easily keeps up with a similarly-spec'd PC in games like UT2K3...
I don't want to hijack the thread, but console gaming is a whole different animal. And the "go buy a PC" for games argument is pointless. If he wanted a PC, he'd have one.

Link · Mar 3, 2004, 10:25 PM

I have a PC but I like playing wolfenstein and it plays awesome on my g4

Nothing much to say there.

ARK · Mar 4, 2004, 09:05 AM

Well Im waiting for my GeForce4 Ti to arrive via FedX in the next couple days. Bought it on Ebay for $195.50. I hope it works fine with no problems. Take 4MX out, stick 4Ti in, close machine, power up and away we go!

He said he had it in his G4 for 3 months and that it will not run in his G5. Sounds like he upgraded to a G5 to me.

cesious · Mar 4, 2004, 11:22 PM

With the Radeon ATI 9000 work in a Mac? I found one here for $90 and sure it is out there cheaper. That is more in line with my price range.

Luca Rescigno · Mar 5, 2004, 12:37 AM

cesious, first of all you have to make sure you're getting a Mac-compatible version of the Radeon 9000. A PC version will not work. The Mac versions almost certainly go for over $100, even used ones on eBay. Just type in "Radeon 9000 Mac" and look around.

Besides, a Radeon 9000 probably isn't enough of a jump up from the GeForce 4MX to be a worthwhile upgrade. If your budget is only $90 for an upgrade, I'd just tell you to keep saving up until you can afford to spend more or until the existing graphics cards drop in value until you can afford them. The best upgrade for you, balancing price and performance, would be the Radeon 8500. They cost about $150, but if you sold your GeForce 4MX, the net cost would only be about $80.

Pao|o · Jul 12, 2004, 12:08 PM

Would anyone know if it is possible to flash an ATI 9800XT 256MB for the PC to work on a dual 1GHz Quicksilver?