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Mr Ti · May 18, 2005, 02:51 PM

OK

I can't believe I can't work this out

My trash for some reason now deletes immediately, ie I can't fill it up with stuff it just gets deleted.

How can I turn it back to the way it was? I guess it is just a check box somewhere but Ican't find it...

Cheers

moonmonkey · May 18, 2005, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Ti

OK

I can't believe I can't work this out

My trash for some reason now deletes immediately, ie I can't fill it up with stuff it just gets deleted.

How can I turn it back to the way it was? I guess it is just a check box somewhere but Ican't find it...

Cheers

Which OS are you running? this behavior ended after System 7 was introduced.

If OS X, Disk first aid and repairing permissions may help.

Mr Ti · May 19, 2005, 03:52 AM

Using 10.3.9, I'll try reparing permissions

[APi]TheMan · May 19, 2005, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

Which OS are you running? this behavior ended after System 7 was introduced.

If OS X, Disk first aid and repairing permissions may help.

Interesting, I've never heard of this phenomenon. I've had problems with trash cans that would not empty, which a simple disk repair would fix (screwy volume fix, not permissions).

Also, I'd like to go on the record and say that there's probably not 10 lines of code in common between System 7 and Mac OS X Panther...

moonmonkey · May 19, 2005, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by [APi]TheMan

Interesting, I've never heard of this phenomenon. I've had problems with trash cans that would not empty, which a simple disk repair would fix (screwy volume fix, not permissions).

Also, I'd like to go on the record and say that there's probably not 10 lines of code in common between System 7 and Mac OS X Panther...

I thought he might be running system 6, stranger things have happened!

Big Mac · May 19, 2005, 06:45 AM

Do you see any dialog box that says something like "these items will be deleted immediately"? Or does it just automatically delete the files without any warning?

Mr Ti · May 19, 2005, 05:25 PM

yep, I see "The item "ITEM" will be deleted immediately, are you sure you want to continue? CANCEL/OK

I'm getting depressed now I thought it was a checkbox, I have repaired permissions and no joy stioll as above

Ω · May 19, 2005, 05:30 PM

Finder prefs, advanced icon is an option relating to the trash.

However not sure if it what you are after as it relates to the message, not the emptying.....

Ω · May 19, 2005, 05:32 PM

Are you running any third party utilities?

Krypton · May 19, 2005, 05:51 PM

Things are deleted immediately from network volumes only.

jamil5454 · May 19, 2005, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Krypton

Things are deleted immediately from network volumes only.

This is true.

Mr Ti · May 19, 2005, 06:41 PM

not running any 3rd party, this is on a fairly new PB, Jan 05. The finder pref advanced made no difference

Mr Ti · May 19, 2005, 06:43 PM

oh senior member now, only took me 3 years...

It's definately not a network volume, this is from my main HD

CatOne · May 19, 2005, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Ti

OK

I can't believe I can't work this out

My trash for some reason now deletes immediately, ie I can't fill it up with stuff it just gets deleted.

How can I turn it back to the way it was? I guess it is just a check box somewhere but Ican't find it...

Cheers

You weren't monkeying around in the Terminal and deleting things you didn't understand, by any chance?

OS X uses a file called .Trash in your home folder to store the trash, so for example if I do a 'ls -al' in my home directory, I see this:

..
drwx------ 2 catone staff 68 May 19 15:33 .Trash
..

And if I look inside it, I'll see the deleted files. If you delete the .Trash folder, you won't be able to store things in the trash anymore. You may be able to re-create it like this (in Terminal) -- BE SURE IT DOESN'T EXIST FIRST:

mkdir .Trash
chmod 700 .Trash

It's worth a shot. And if you did actually delete .Trash accidentally... SHAME ON YOU!

Mr Ti · May 20, 2005, 03:45 AM

arh. .Trash is missing, but I haven't deleted it HONEST.

I tried in Termninal the commands you said but when I tried to mkdir .Trash I have insufficent privelages. How do I get around this?

Appleman · May 20, 2005, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Ti

arh. .Trash is missing, but I haven't deleted it HONEST.

I tried in Termninal the commands you said but when I tried to mkdir .Trash I have insufficent privelages. How do I get around this?

Enable root

DoctorW · May 20, 2005, 09:52 AM

I had the same problem under 10.2 a few years ago. Recreating the .Trash folder worked, until reboot/log out, and then the same problem reappeared. They only way I was able to fix it was to delete and recreate the entire user account.

Hopefully, things have changed enough since then that you won't need to take such a drastic measure.

Chuckit · May 20, 2005, 09:56 AM

There is no need to enable root in order to make a directory. Honestly, people, it's thinking like this that makes me wish they'd disable root entirely.

Use sudo mkdir .Trash and enter your admin password. Works just as well, and it's less trouble.

chris v · May 20, 2005, 10:03 AM

Run DiskWarrior first? could be a corrupt directory. I've had whole folders go missing before due to directory problems. (Not since Journaling, but it had happenned.)

LaGow · May 20, 2005, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

There is no need to enable root in order to make a directory. Honestly, people, it's thinking like this that makes me wish they'd disable root entirely.

Use sudo mkdir .Trash and enter your admin password. Works just as well, and it's less trouble.

I'd like to second that. There's been a lot of that going around in the forums lately. Enabling root is dangerous advice for casual users. Sudo is much better, if you have to go into the Terminal at all.

Hal Itosis · 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Ti

arh. .Trash is missing, but I haven't deleted it HONEST.

I tried in Termninal the commands you said but when I tried to mkdir .Trash I have insufficent privelages. How do I get around this?

If Terminal won't let you create a directory in your own home folder...
then you have OTHER permissions problems. While forcing the issue
via sudo may allow you to create a new .Trash folder, the other issues
(whatever they are) will still remain. Note: Disk Utility does not repair
perms **inside** a user's Home (AFAIK).

If this was my Mac, I would want to look at a listing of my Home folder:

ls -halo ~

to see what file modes / ownerships/ groups are assigned at that level.

PS -- I echo the "DiskWarrior" suggestion (even a Disk Utility/fsck run).

tooki · May 20, 2005, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

Which OS are you running? this behavior ended after System 7 was introduced.

It didn't work that way with any version of the Mac system software, ever. The MultiFinder, introduced in System 5, introduced the Trash that was persistent even across application launches. System 7 introduced the fully-persistent Trash — its contents are persistent between reboots (or logouts). Before that, the Trash was always emptied any time the Finder was quit (which happened any time you opened an application, if you weren't running MultiFinder).

Again, no Mac operating system has ever immediately deleted as a matter of course. Only network files on some types of servers, and sometimes files with duplicate file names, were ever deleted without warning, and even then only with confirmation.

tooki

Hal Itosis · May 20, 2005, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by LaGow

Enabling root is dangerous advice for casual users. Sudo is much better, if you have to go into the Terminal at all.

While I certainly don't want to derail the original topic, I will contend that a ""casual"" user
wielding sudo inside an unfamiliar environment (the CLI) is just as likely (if not more so)
to do damage to themselves, than if they were just mousing around familiar turf (the GUI).

Something as small as a space added to a command like sudo rm -fR /Users/me/myfile
will cause more harm than a user would (typically) self inflict, plying their trusty mouse.

Chuckit · May 20, 2005, 02:44 PM

One copied-and-pasted command is much less likely to cause harm than recommending people go into root for any little problem they may be having. And it's been covered many times before that even if you refuse to use the command line, there are graphical options less sledgehammerish than enabling root.

Hal Itosis · May 20, 2005, 02:58 PM

(As far as 'copy-and-paste' goes: I can point you to threads
where readers were instructed to do that, but clearly didn't).

Getting back on topic, why do you suppose Mr. Ti would need
to use sudo (your idea) to create a folder in his own directory?!?
Does that not pique your curiosity?

Chuckit · May 20, 2005, 03:09 PM

Ah, that's a good point. I was somehow thinking of /.Trashes, but you're right, that is curious.

LaGow · May 20, 2005, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

While I certainly don't want to derail the original topic, I will contend that a ""casual"" user
wielding sudo inside an unfamiliar environment (the CLI) is just as likely (if not more so)
to do damage to themselves, than if they were just mousing around familiar turf (the GUI).

Something as small as a space added to a command like sudo rm -fR /Users/me/myfile
will cause more harm than a user would (typically) self inflict, plying their trusty mouse.

Touché. I would have to agree.

Mr Ti · May 20, 2005, 06:06 PM

tried sudo mkdir .Trash and still no joy , looking grim

LaGow · May 20, 2005, 08:41 PM

You may find yourself reaching the point of diminishing returns with this problem. At some point you may want to reconsider just reinstalling your system rather than spending hours and hours of time trying to figure out a problem that just won't be solved.

But before you do this, I would suggest you go over here. Some pretty briliant people over there who may be able to help.

Mr Ti · May 26, 2005, 06:43 PM

finally worked it out.

Here's my solution.

Using Tinkertool I displayed hidden files in the finder. This allowed me to edit the permissions on the .Trash I created using the sudo mkdir .Trash in terminal from system to ~user (the ,Trash was missing as pointed out above).

My trash now works as expected.

Thanks for all help