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No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones · Jul 30, 2009, 10:43 AM

I recall there was much ado about the 20" iMac screens being lower quality than the 24" version, is that still the case? I'm really wanting to get an all-in-one to eliminate cable clutter and reclaim desk space. The 24" is too large for my desk, although the starting price for it isn't that much more from the 20", if bought new. I was considering buying one cheaper off eBay, though.

ghporter · Jul 30, 2009, 11:27 AM

There were a lot of nits being picked about how the original aluminum 20" iMac screens weren't "good." There IS a density fade from top to bottom on mine, but you have to look for it to see it and you don't see it at all while watching movies. The most vocal issues were those about the glass-covered display being "so glossy as to be unusable." Which was and still is bunk (not that I have an opinion on that issue, of course.

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CharlesS · Jul 30, 2009, 11:59 AM

The 20" panels are still TN panels, which lack the ability to truly display 16.8 million colors without dithering, and which have terrible viewing angles. The 24" screens are high-end H-IPS panels. There's nothing in between when it comes to the iMac. If you go to an Apple store and look at a screen from a sharp vertical angle, you will easily see the difference.

Myself, I'd prefer attaching a third-party external display to a laptop these days, but if you're dead-set on an iMac, the 24" is definitely the one you want since you'll be stuck with that monitor forever with no way to replace it.

mduell · Jul 30, 2009, 03:25 PM

Yep, still TN panels in the 20" and pretty low quality ones at that.

0157988944 · Jul 30, 2009, 04:08 PM

Another vote for the suckiness of the 20"s. You can either calibrate for the top half or calibrate for the bottom half but you'll never get them both looking right.

Simon · Jul 30, 2009, 05:54 PM

It's a regular TN screen. Just as good or as bad as any other TN panel. You get what you pay for.

Charles is right. A notebook plus external screen may be a tad more expensive, but in most cases it makes more sense.

sek929 · Jul 30, 2009, 06:29 PM

Maybe I'm not as picky as you guys buy my 20" screen looks just fine. Sure the viewing angles are piss-poor, but I sit directly in front of a computer monitor anyways, so what's the big deal? The color is rich, it's bright and easily legible. Sure it might not cut it for the pros, but it's a fine display for any regular user. I've played CoD4 and it looks great, better than my other 17" matte LCD.

CharlesS · Jul 30, 2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Maybe I'm not as picky as you guys buy my 20" screen looks just fine. Sure the viewing angles are piss-poor, but I sit directly in front of a computer monitor anyways, so what's the big deal?

You can't stare at the whole screen all the time unless you are sitting like ten feet back. The part you're actively looking at will look right, the other parts that you can see in your peripheral vision will have the colors messed up. It bugs me even on 15" laptop screens - on a 20" or bigger, it'd be murder. And I'm red-green colorblind, so if your vision is normal you'll probably be more sensitive to this than I am. If it can bother me, there's a problem.

ghporter · Jul 30, 2009, 08:00 PM

I don't know about the screens you've seen, Charles, but my 20" screen (I bought it at my local Apple Store the day after the aluminum iMacs came out) is pretty darn nice. The viewing angles aren't bad at all-there's a noticeable comb effect (the colors alter) at about 30º off axis but nothing any closer to center-and while as I said there is a gradient issue, it's very mild.

No, I would not use this monitor for extremely fine detail, very color sensitive work. I WOULD use it to read X-rays and MRIs though.

TN panels are a compromise between producibility/yield and "perfect" color fidelity and resolution on the viewing side of the panel. Obviously they aren't great off-axis because of how they're made and how they produce an image. And they are somewhat sensitive to issues with backlight color and intensity. But they are not the horror to the eye that many people have suggested they are.

mduell · Jul 31, 2009, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

It's a regular TN screen. Just as good or as bad as any other TN panel. You get what you pay for.

Even LCD panels using the same technology have significant quality variation. At one point Apple noted in a keynote they were only using the better bins (refusing panels that other OEMs would accept), but that's obviously no longer true.

Simon · Jul 31, 2009, 02:54 AM

You keep telling yourself that.

Bottom line: differences among TN panels << differences between TN and H-IPS.

The question is 20" TN v.s 24" H-IPS. Compared to that difference, Apple or non-Apple is irrelevant.

Simon · Jul 31, 2009, 02:57 AM

Glenn still makes a valid point. Not everybody needs the wide angle or color accuracy of an H-IPS panel. And there are people who have to buy within tight budget limits. So there's definitely people who will have a very good reason to buy a TN. And some will be perfectly happy with their TN panel (like Glenn obviously). OTOH there are those willing to pay for the extra fidelity of the H-IPS. Nothing wrong with that either.

OreoCookie · Jul 31, 2009, 03:21 AM

I agree with Simon. But for many people it's irrelevant. Unless you need color accuracy, the 20" iMac is just fine. If you need better colors, you can get an external screen (or use the one you have in your sig). However, make sure it does not have a TN panel then (which means you'll spend another ~$500 or so).

P · Aug 3, 2009, 11:08 AM

Apple has used TN displays on the smaller iMacs since forever, but it wasn't so bad back when the small one was a 15" or even 17" model. On a 20", the limited viewing angles can become a problem. 262 000 versus 16.7 million colors "native" is mostly irrelevant though, unless you're doing serious color work. The temporal dithering masks that defect nicely.

Veltliner · Aug 4, 2009, 02:32 AM

A lower quality display not only is less accurate with colors, it also has poorer contrast, which we experience as crispness.

The OP should sit down at the apple store and compare a 20" and a 24" side by side.

Ask to have the same movie clip played on both.

Then look up some photos on a photo site.

If you don't see the difference... (which I doubt)

...well, you might still like a bigger display better than a smaller one.

outaru · Aug 5, 2009, 11:25 PM

i hate the screens they put on these beautiful iMacs.. my screen was replaced once, and now there are black spots again..

btw mine is a 24" iMac.. i got an applecare for protection

ghporter · Aug 6, 2009, 07:40 AM

As has been said before, if you need high picture fidelity, the 20" iMac certainly isn't the right platform. If you're just using it to do more plebeian tasks like watch movies, surf, and produce documents, it's fine.

outaru, it sounds like your problem has nothing to do with the screens in the 20" iMacs, OR with the kind of panel used in your 24" machine.

Simon · Aug 6, 2009, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

As has been said before, if you need high picture fidelity, the 20" iMac certainly isn't the right platform. If you're just using it to do more plebeian tasks like watch movies, surf, and produce documents, it's fine.

Actually some would argue that exactly for watching movies you wouldn't want a TN because of the limited viewing angle.

CharlesS · Aug 6, 2009, 12:06 PM

Yeah - if you're watching movies, you want the freedom to be able to sit wherever you want in the room. Also, if you have a friend over to watch a movie together, only one of you is going to be able to be sitting directly in front of the monitor at once.

sek929 · Aug 6, 2009, 03:47 PM

I dunno about you, but if I'm watching a movie with a friend I wouldn't huddle around a 20" screen anyways.

ghporter · Aug 6, 2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Actually some would argue that exactly for watching movies you wouldn't want a TN because of the limited viewing angle.

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Yeah - if you're watching movies, you want the freedom to be able to sit wherever you want in the room. Also, if you have a friend over to watch a movie together, only one of you is going to be able to be sitting directly in front of the monitor at once.

Originally Posted by sek929

I dunno about you, but if I'm watching a movie with a friend I wouldn't huddle around a 20" screen anyways.

If I am watching a movie, most of the time I'll be watching it on a much bigger screen. If I'm watching it on my iMac, then my seating position is going to be pretty much right in front of the machine, and I'll be alone.

I didn't use the term "watching a movie" as an absolute, merely a generic computer task. Many people watch movies on their notebooks all the time, too. Alone.