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Theresa May
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subego
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Jul 13, 2016, 10:25 PM
 
This is the thread wherein we pretend more than three people care.
     
Chongo
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Jul 13, 2016, 10:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is the thread wherein we pretend more than three people care.
Poco, Insomniac, and who else?
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 13, 2016, 10:52 PM
 
The good Doctor Happy Mac.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 13, 2016, 11:13 PM
 
UK: oh, you're about to have as many female heads of state as us? Guess not.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 13, 2016, 11:19 PM
 


I'm lost again.
     
P
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Jul 14, 2016, 05:05 AM
 
Lizzie remains head of state, I believe, so if you're counting that, the US is way behind - although I suppose you could count ruling Queens before 1776 if you like.

(I suspect Dakar was thinking that Clinton is likely to be the next POTUS, the first woman on that post, and the UK already had a female PM in Thatcher - meaning that the US was about to "catch up" before made it 2-0).

This is the thread wherein we pretend more than three people care
I care. May is the one who has been pushing the Snooper's Charter for half a decade now, and that bill is extremely worrying. Also she just named Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary, which is an extremely poor choice for someone who is supposed to negotiate with foreign leaders.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 14, 2016, 10:02 AM
 
P is smart
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 14, 2016, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Lizzie remains head of state, I believe, so if you're counting that, the US is way behind - although I suppose you could count ruling Queens before 1776 if you like.

(I suspect Dakar was thinking that Clinton is likely to be the next POTUS, the first woman on that post, and the UK already had a female PM in Thatcher - meaning that the US was about to "catch up" before made it 2-0).



I care. May is the one who has been pushing the Snooper's Charter for half a decade now, and that bill is extremely worrying. Also she just named Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary, which is an extremely poor choice for someone who is supposed to negotiate with foreign leaders.
Sorry. By popular vote you don't get to care.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 14, 2016, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I care. May is the one who has been pushing the Snooper's Charter for half a decade now, and that bill is extremely worrying.
Honest question.

Why is your reaction not "if such and such country wants to do dumb shit like this, let them".
     
P
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Jul 15, 2016, 05:09 AM
 
The snooper's charter would ban end-to-end encryption. The government has now admitted this, after attempting to deny it for years. iMessage, among many other such systems, relies on end-to-end encryption. This means that, should the law pass, Apple has a few bad options:

1) Disable iMessage in the UK
2) Disable iMessage encryption in the UK
3) Change the entire architecture of iMessage to disable the end-to-end encryption
4) Stop selling iPhones in the UK.

Now, what the government wants is clearly 3), and they only really lose if Apple chooses 4) - if Apple chooses 1) or 2), it is a minor feature degradation in the eyes of most people, which they can get away with.

The reason it is a problem for the UK to do this is that that makes them an example for dictators across the world of how you might do it, how you might force the international giants to break their encryption - and how to stand up to international scrutiny during such an action. The world is full of countries who are trying to do this in more or less legal ways - Brazil is in a spat with Facebook, and India has been fighting RIM/Blackberry over the same situation for more than a decade now. Blackberry used a different design of their encryption architecture, which eventually let them fold - a few months ago they admitted to giving the RCMP access to their supposedly secure messaging system.

The possible - and even likely - result of this action is the end of strong encryption by default in consumer products. It won't stop ISIS/Daesh and the like - they can install third-party software on their phones to make this possible anyway. It won't even stop a reasonably intelligent crime syndicate - as long as there is a place somewhere on the globe where encryption is legal, a company in that location can make encryption software and sell it internationally with impunity - but it will stop a public rebellion like the Arab spring from getting started. The UK will have strengthened fascist dictatorships all over the world, just because they don't understand the consequences of their actions.

That's why.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 15, 2016, 11:11 AM
 
Apple will pick option two, thus limiting the damage to the ****ing idiots who asked for it.

Don't dictators already have the blueprint? You already mentioned India. In fact, before you mentioned India the first thing in my mind is "what about India?"
     
P
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Jul 15, 2016, 11:59 AM
 
I'm not sure if they can pick option 2, because iMessage outside the country would not, should not, trust that. E.g. my phone should not accept a message sent to it in the clear. You can argue that one should always keep the phone updated, but what about all the people with iPhone 4 and 4s, which won't be updated any further. It is a support nightmare. I suspect that they will have to disable iMessage completely on new phones sold.

India's decision was that RIM, who could decrypt the messages, should be compelled to do so or face consequences. Apple's system was designed so that Apple itself cannot decrypt the messages. The U.K. decision goes one step further and makes that illegal. That is the troubling precedent here.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 15, 2016, 12:14 PM
 
Okay... worst case scenario. Apple disables iMessage in the UK.

So what? This only affects you if you text into the UK.
     
Chongo
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Jul 15, 2016, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Okay... worst case scenario. Apple disables iMessage in the UK.

So what? This only affects you if you text into the UK.
Has Facebook already compromised with the message app?
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 15, 2016, 02:24 PM
 
Umm... we're talking about privacy. How is Facebook even relevant?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 15, 2016, 07:20 PM
 
If Apple picks 1 or 2, does the value of older iDevices skyrocket on the UK black market?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 15, 2016, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If Apple picks 1 or 2, does the value of older iDevices skyrocket on the UK black market?
Only for those inclined to literally broadcast they're committing a crime.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 16, 2016, 07:31 AM
 
@P

The basic principle I try to ascribe to is "as long as they aren't causing "bodily" injury to someone else, let dumbasses be dumbasses".

I have concern for people stuck in Dumbassistan who don't have the means to leave, but beyond that my feeling is "there but for the grace of God" and expend my efforts cleaning my own house.
     
Chongo
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Jul 16, 2016, 07:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Umm... we're talking about privacy. How is Facebook even relevant?
Just asking, but you are aware that FB has a standalone message app?
https://www.messenger.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Messenger
On July 8, 2016, Facebook announced that they would be deploying end-to-end encryption as an optional feature for Facebook Messenger users. It will be available in an optional mode called "Secret Conversations" and will use Open Whisper Systems' Signal Protocol.[18][19][20]
I asked in light of the fact that FB and Google have been willing to cave to "the man" in the past.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 16, 2016, 07:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Just asking, but you are aware that FB has a standalone message app?
https://www.messenger.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Messenger


I asked in light of the fact that FB and Google have been willing to cave to "the man" in the past.
I was insinuating they already caved to the Man. From the beginning.

Along those lines, I doubt iMessage is as secure as claimed.
     
Chongo
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Jul 16, 2016, 08:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I was insinuating they already caved to the Man. From the beginning.

Along those lines, I doubt iMessage is as secure as claimed.
     
P
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Jul 16, 2016, 11:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@P

The basic principle I try to ascribe to is "as long as they aren't causing "bodily" injury to someone else, let dumbasses be dumbasses".

I have concern for people stuck in Dumbassistan who don't have the means to leave, but beyond that my feeling is "there but for the grace of God" and expend my efforts cleaning my own house.
I get that. My worry is for the precedent. We had the Arab Spring showing that modern technology has given us a new way to overthrow dictators. It showed the dictators that you either have to go full North Korea, keep the people happy with steady improvements (China), or GTFO. Pretending that everyone is happy while keeping people down through violence doesn't work anymore. Banning encryption breaks that tool - and does so for nothing more than the warm fuzzy feeling of being able to spy on your own law-abiding citizens. That isn't a good enough reason.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 16, 2016, 08:28 PM
 
Hence my liberal sprinkling of the term "dumbass".

Overall however, I see this as Q.E.D.

If all it takes for your country to flip it's policy on encryption is to see the UK do it, the UK isn't the problem, the problem's at home. [Edit: I could have phrased this in a less absolute manner, but I think the point is valid even though this is an oversimplification]



Is it crazy of me to think a larger threat to your country's encryption policy could instead be the EU? I'm not familiar with the specific law, but I see one as having the ability to affect your country directly as opposed to the other.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 16, 2016 at 08:56 PM. )
     
P
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Jul 17, 2016, 08:25 AM
 
It is not my country's policy that I am concerned about. What I am concerned about is that if some two bit dictator in sub-Saharan Africa or Asia or wherever wants to spy on people today, he has to deal with the fact that end-to-end encryption is a thing. If he tries to ban it, Apple and Facebook and Google and whatnot won't care. I think they will have to care if the UK does so, which means that they have to develop a policy for that situation - a policy that can be applied to any country who asks for it.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
subego  (op)
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Jul 17, 2016, 11:36 AM
 
People who live in two-bit dictatorships don't have the disposable income to buy $700 phones.

No market, no leverage.
     
   
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