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The Official MacNN COVID-19 Thread (Page 13)
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Laminar
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Jul 21, 2020, 11:40 AM
 
*peeks head in*

So right after many schools revealed their plans for the new school year, plans they've spent the last four months developing, plans specific to their districts' needs regarding schooling in-person, online, or a combination of the two, our delightful Trump-wannabe governor called a press conference and declared that every school needs to offer a full-time in-person option.

I honestly don't understand the angle here. Requiring large groups of people to gather in confined spaces is only to drive up infection rates. Driving up infection rates prolongs the effects of the pandemic. Prolonging the pandemic murders both people and the economy. There's going to be another economic cliff once the government cheese runs out. Are Republicans just trying everything they can to push that cliff past November? I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of extension of CARES to keep people fed and happy for just a few more months.
     
subego
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Jul 21, 2020, 12:34 PM
 
I can’t speak to Trump’s angle, but the general angle is the number of people who use school as a babysitter. No school is an untenable situation for them, in the same vein no work is untenable if money is tight.

Not school related, but Chicago just closed the bars again, and a bunch have said they're at the end of the line. They’re staying closed permanently.

I can’t blame the city’s actions. People were behaving like ****ing morons about social distancing when they were open, but it also sucks it’s going to cave in all these businesses.
     
Laminar
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Jul 21, 2020, 12:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I can’t speak to Trump’s angle, but the general angle is the number of people who use school as a babysitter. No school is an untenable situation for them, in the same vein no work is untenable if money is tight.
That's fair. We're fortunate that my wife can work from home. We've a nanny 2-3 days a week and the 7-year-old goes to the grandparents' one day a week. I'd wager most Americans are not in a position for one parent to just stop working to stay home with a kid that would otherwise be in school.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 21, 2020, 01:45 PM
 
What we are hearing now is that those who can stay home, should, and those who absolutely need IEP services, school lunch, daycare, should. So while I might think my kid can go back, to make a space for those whose parents aren't WFH, I should keep her home. We are debating. I don't think we will make a final decision until August.

https://medium.com/@shaylargriffin/s...e-8a57894b8487

College is a whole nuther fun kettle.
     
reader50
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Jul 21, 2020, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not school related, but Chicago just closed the bars again, and a bunch have said they're at the end of the line. They’re staying closed permanently.
California closed bars and a few other places a week ago (in most counties). However, nearly all businesses are allowed to do business outside. Even barbers. It's mostly just bars that are fully closed. I'm not sure why people can't drink outside - it works for lemonade stands.
     
subego
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Jul 21, 2020, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
California closed bars and a few other places a week ago (in most counties). However, nearly all businesses are allowed to do business outside. Even barbers. It's mostly just bars that are fully closed. I'm not sure why people can't drink outside - it works for lemonade stands.
There’s a space issue in the city, and outdoor seating here requires numerous bribes permits.

For a couple weeks they shut down the street near me over the weekend to make room, and it was basically mega-block party of drunken idiots not wearing masks.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 21, 2020, 02:47 PM
 
We closed our main drag and the restaurants have made patios in the street - umbrellas, canopies, flower boxes, fairy lights, socially distant tables... everyone loves it (except perhaps a few people inconvenienced by the road closure). They want to do this every summer now.
     
subego
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Jul 21, 2020, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
We closed our main drag and the restaurants have made patios in the street - umbrellas, canopies, flower boxes, fairy lights, socially distant tables... everyone loves it (except perhaps a few people inconvenienced by the road closure). They want to do this every summer now.
Our version has way too many bros.
     
subego
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Jul 22, 2020, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
That's fair. We're fortunate that my wife can work from home. We've a nanny 2-3 days a week and the 7-year-old goes to the grandparents' one day a week. I'd wager most Americans are not in a position for one parent to just stop working to stay home with a kid that would otherwise be in school.
They took a poll of parents in the city, and “superspreader it” won with a slight majority.
     
Laminar
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Jul 22, 2020, 10:51 AM
 
Well, the most prominent grocery store chain in the state just decided it would continue to not require guests to wear masks, in direct contradiction with what their employees are begging them to do. In what crazy 2020 world is Wal-Mart the good guy?
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 22, 2020, 11:05 AM
 
Winn-Dixie? I saw they were anti-mask, likely in a cynical bid to get all the people who will protest-boycott WalMart.

Walmart isn't a 'good guy.' Walmart has better lawyers telling them what their liabilities are. Even so I feel better knowing my parents can shop there instead of Winn-Dixie.
     
Laminar
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Jul 22, 2020, 01:06 PM
 
Hy-Vee. I assume they don't want to post security guards to enforce the policy as other stores have had to do.
     
ghporter
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Jul 23, 2020, 10:18 AM
 
Our primary local grocery chain, H-E-B, is privately (family) owned. As soon as it appeared that the "no mask" idea was bad, they started gearing up to require them again. This was not all their doing, as the county government issued an executive order requiring masks again.

However, the grocery chain had only grudgingly stopped enforcing their own mask requirement after the local government relaxed the requirement, stating that it was "too difficult to enforce" without government support.

We had been using their curbside grocery pick up for quite a while, despite that service being overwhelmed for a time, and had only recently decided to go back into the store, since the chain's management was clearly serious about public safety. We're back to the curbside route for now.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 23, 2020, 04:00 PM
 
I saw an anti-masker refer to pro-mask people as "mucus heads" earlier.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 23, 2020, 06:44 PM
 
South Texas hospital, overwhelmed by COVID-19, will base treatment on patients’ survival chances. Those deemed too fragile or sick or elderly will be advised to go home to loved ones.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
reader50
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Jul 23, 2020, 09:20 PM
 
^^^ In case anyone else was wondering why they don't transfer patients to other hospitals, the article gives the answer.
“There is nowhere to put these patients. The whole state of Texas and neighboring states have no ICU beds to spare for us,” Vazquez said Tuesday afternoon during a video conference call with media.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 23, 2020, 09:44 PM
 
My county sheriff has announced his department won’t enforce our (republican) governor’s recent statewide mask order. He says it isn’t a constitutional order.

Indy’s mayor has re-closed the bars due to a resurgence of COVID in the city.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
el chupacabra
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Jul 24, 2020, 05:38 PM
 
It's not government's job to save us from viruses. Government would fail anyway. Besides all the government and FSM officials said not to wear masks back in Feb & March. It's stupid they said. It doesnt block anything, & it's taking it from nurses they said. Now they've flip flopped for the nth time while the WHO is now saying social distancing would have to be at least "10's of meters" to be effective.
     
turtle777
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Jul 24, 2020, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
It's not government's job to save us from viruses. Government would fail anyway. Besides all the government and FSM officials said not to wear masks back in Feb & March. It's stupid they said. It doesnt block anything, & it's taking it from nurses they said. Now they've flip flopped for the nth time while the WHO is now saying social distancing would have to be at least "10's of meters" to be effective.
Well, it was very clear in February that masks work.
Only idiots deny it. And there are a lot of idiots in the WHO and our government. And there are even more idiots in the general public. Can't believe how people are making such a big deal out of it.

-t
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 25, 2020, 06:33 PM
 
In february and march, there were so few masks that nurses and doctors couldn't get them. So they didn't want the public hoarding all the medical grade ones, when if you stayed the heck home, you didn't need medical grade masks. It took a while to teach people how to make handmade ones that worked well enough for the public's 15 minutes into the grocery store.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 26, 2020, 08:55 AM
 
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
turtle777
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Jul 26, 2020, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
In february and march, there were so few masks that nurses and doctors couldn't get them. So they didn't want the public hoarding all the medical grade ones, when if you stayed the heck home, you didn't need medical grade masks. It took a while to teach people how to make handmade ones that worked well enough for the public's 15 minutes into the grocery store.
Governments and officials told us back then and even today that masks don’t work. It’s a lie, and lunacy.
The US refusal to wear and inability to supply masks is the main reason for the bad numbers compared to most other countries.

-t
     
reader50
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Jul 26, 2020, 12:14 PM
 
I see no shortage of masks today in the US. Consumer masks anyway - N95s remain in short supply.

Too many people just aren't wearing them. Not observing social distancing is also an issue, but I think masks are the dominant factor. I've also noticed less frequent use of sanitizer on doorknobs, etc.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 26, 2020, 04:21 PM
 
I have a friend who works at the Indianapolis Children’s Museum. It’s an enormous place. They just recently re-opened with a very strict mask policy. No mask, no admission. If you take your mask off after getting in, you’re grabbed by security and escorted out. And, yes, they’ve had to toss people out fairly regularly. Stupid people.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
subego
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Jul 26, 2020, 10:33 PM
 
The drunken block party with no masks has returned, but on the flipside, the state reported only one death yesterday.

Reporting is always iffy over the weekend, though.
     
reader50
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Jul 26, 2020, 11:49 PM
 
Alcohol can disinfect COVID away if used externally. It would be quite amusing if we find out bars were almost immune. That the booze was disinfecting the patrons all along.
     
subego
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Jul 26, 2020, 11:52 PM
 
Throw a drink in someone’s face and save a life.
     
The Final Shortcut
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Jul 27, 2020, 12:01 AM
 
Wouldn’t it have to be like 150 proof? I feel The COVID Killer shot would be both popular and deadly.
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2020, 12:17 AM
 
Best go 182. Just to be safe.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 27, 2020, 06:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Alcohol can disinfect COVID away if used externally. It would be quite amusing if we find out bars were almost immune. That the booze was disinfecting the patrons all along.
We've had mini outbreaks/clusters in pubs.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2020, 07:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
We've had mini outbreaks/clusters in pubs.
Now we know where they water stuff down.
     
Laminar
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Jul 27, 2020, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
It's not government's job to save us from viruses. Government would fail anyway. Besides all the government and FSM officials said not to wear masks back in Feb & March. It's stupid they said. It doesnt block anything, & it's taking it from nurses they said. Now they've flip flopped for the nth time while the WHO is now saying social distancing would have to be at least "10's of meters" to be effective.
Yes, the corporations will save us. Personal responsibility! It worked great for keeping my great aunt and uncle alive!
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 28, 2020, 05:35 PM
 
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
The Final Shortcut
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Jul 29, 2020, 11:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
It's not government's job to save us from viruses. Government would fail anyway. Besides all the government and FSM officials said not to wear masks back in Feb & March. It's stupid they said. It doesnt block anything, & it's taking it from nurses they said. Now they've flip flopped for the nth time while the WHO is now saying social distancing would have to be at least "10's of meters" to be effective.
Wait. Where is this “10s of metres” recommendation from the WHO? That’s 35 feet minimum—that sounds absurd.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jul 30, 2020, 10:39 AM
 
Herman Cain passed away from COVID today.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 4, 2020, 10:03 PM
 
Roger Penske announced today they will now run the Indy 500 with no fans in attendance. Tough decision, but probably the right one. Even at just 25% capacity, it was a disaster waiting to happen.
On the positive side, this almost definitely means the race won’t be blacked-out in central Indiana this year.
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ghporter
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Aug 6, 2020, 10:02 AM
 
Georgia second grader tests positive for Corona Virus after attending first day of school.

{Extreme sarcasm on} Of course it's perfectly safe to go back to school, especially for very young kids...Oh, and that district has something over 260 staff members who are positive and have been "excluded from work" because of it. What could possibly go wrong?{/Extreme sarcasm}

My hospital continues to get rehabilitation patients who have survived COVID and are now anywhere from moderately debilitated to unable to tolerate even sitting upright. And their ages have gone down from 70s and 80s to 30s and 40s. One 40-ish patient says he didn't believe COVID was a real problem and never wore a mask. A couple of weeks in ICU on a vent kind of changed his mind.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Aug 6, 2020, 10:39 AM
 
What gets me is that once the situation is under control, there are interesting approaches to have in-person instruction resume. Denmark has an interesting approach, although of course, we should caution that not every approach will work. There doesn’t even seem to be any interest in learning from the mistakes and successes of other countries. That even the basics (social distancing, masks) are up for discussion still amazes me to no end.
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The Final Shortcut
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Aug 6, 2020, 06:21 PM
 
The school one is difficult.

Not only does no school cause a significant economic problem from a two-working-parents perspective which is now the norm, but children out of school are also seeing significant negative impacts, particularly in their mental development and well-being, as well as physical health; our society no longer has many of the support systems it used to in these areas (in particular housewives who could just send their kids outside for unsupervised play with other kids for 6+ hours a day, lol). I know that a prominent children’s hospital in my area has seen a significant increase in children’s mental health issues over the past several months, and recently made a public recommendation to gov’t for full return to school in September.

Those risks are also real and have to be balanced of course.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 7, 2020, 12:38 AM
 
Exactly, and re-opening public life necessitates a balancing of risk and nuance. But as a prerequisite, you have to have the pandemic somewhat under control, because the general situation gives you a baseline. And if the baseline changes, you can open up a little more or close back down. The possibilities in e. g. Japan or Denmark are different, because the number of cases at that moment in time is quite different.
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Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 7, 2020, 07:11 AM
 
Georgia student suspended for posting video of hallway crowded with maskless students
The principal goes on to threaten anyone who posts "negative" things to social media.
( Last edited by Thorzdad; Aug 7, 2020 at 12:59 PM. Reason: swapped in a better link)
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
subego
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Aug 7, 2020, 07:40 AM
 
Do you want a lawsuit? Because this is how you get a lawsuit.
     
reader50
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Aug 8, 2020, 02:38 PM
 
Doctors and hospitals are providing voter-registration kits to patients.
More than 60 hospital networks are taking part in campaign as some of the usual ways of registering are curbed by the pandemic
The article is carefully non-political. But it occurred to me - patients see through the FUD campaigns. They no longer believe it's all a hoax, or fake news, etc. Gasping for life on a ventilator is a great cure for all that.

This could help vote the deniers out of office. I really approve of this effort. Empower the people who have been hit the hardest.
     
The Final Shortcut
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Aug 9, 2020, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
Wait. Where is this “10s of metres” recommendation from the WHO? That’s 35 feet minimum—that sounds absurd.
Did anyone every verify this claim? I notice it was made in pretty much every thread which feels like classic propaganda....I’m not able to find a source on it.
     
subego
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Aug 9, 2020, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Shortcut View Post
Did anyone every verify this claim? I notice it was made in pretty much every thread which feels like classic propaganda....I’m not able to find a source on it.
The Arbiter of Truth™, also known as Google, has WHO saying 1 meter.

Someone at MIT says droplets travel 8 meters.

My personal guess is the useful distance changes with exposure time. For a brief encounter 1 meter is fine, but it needs to be farther for all day.
     
ghporter
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Aug 9, 2020, 09:47 AM
 
Your guess is accurate. Also the environment is a major factor; the outdoor environment helps dissipate exposure, while indoor environments concentrate contaminants.

So taking a hand-off of a delivery and immediately separating from the deliverer is fine (as long as you’re both wearing masks and you wash your hands after handling the package), but doing something with someone else for more than a couple of minutes warrants more distance, as well as better coverings for face and eyes (and hands, if you’re both touching the same things).

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 9, 2020, 09:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Your guess is accurate. Also the environment is a major factor; the outdoor environment helps dissipate exposure, while indoor environments concentrate contaminants.
IMHO the better way to look at it is to reduce risk rather than pretending we can decrease it to zero. So reducing the frequency of riskier behavior is one measure you can take if you can’t or don’t want to stop doing something entirely (e. g. grocery shopping).

Depending on your precise circumstances, you should adjust your behavior accordingly. Where I live there are relatively few cases, and e. g. I am fine going to a café once a week or two if I can sit outside. Similarly, cycling is low-risk, especially once I am out and about in the country side. If I lived in Tokyo or so, I’d probably be more restrictive.
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Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 10, 2020, 08:30 AM
 
Georgia school that suspended student for posting video now has 9 confirmed C-19 cases.
They have cancelled in-person classes for Monday and Tuesday.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
subego
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Aug 10, 2020, 08:49 AM
 
Womp womp.
     
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Aug 18, 2020, 02:09 PM
 
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
 
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