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stace · May 21, 2003, 01:13 AM

1how do you think the introduction of panther will effect the ibook, as the lone retail g3 apple currently has? (if it does at all?)
...and...does it spell bad news for the g3's out there?

also, something i noticed, you guys probably did too.
video cards all seemed to be bumped to at least 32 megs

3do you think apple's latest updates have made all the products just sneak in over the minimum requirements bar for 10.3, which would mean not so hot performance for tons of macs out there...?

stace;)

yakkiebah · May 21, 2003, 06:05 AM

in all probability panther will have a positive effect rather then a negative one.

because so far, of all the recent releases/updates of X, performance has improved. even on 16mb video cards.

you think it's strange they update gfx cards?

slider · May 21, 2003, 06:53 AM

It will be interesting to see. I think it would be something to strongly consider when purchasing an iBook. I have a 466iBook and I am pleased with it's performacne in Jaguar. I will certainly upgrade my QS to panther, however the iBook will wait for some feedback from others. Eventually it will get to a point were it will be upgraded no further, it's fine right now and I don't know what Apple could add feature wise that would make me think I needed it on my iBook. It's for sitting around using word, excel, iChat, email, web, occationally iPhoto and some lite games from time to time. I would think they would carry the 32MB vram iBooks forward, but I guess it depends a lot on weather or not this will be addressing the 64bit processors and such. I suppose that is were I am a bit hasitant, I mean sure it will support the current G4, but what about the G3, again, it will be interesting to see.

ebolla · May 21, 2003, 04:05 PM

Panther will support the G3 and add added funtionallity to current and past G3 machines

If Panther doesnt support and help the G3 then Apple would loose a whole lotta potential customers for their new $120 OS product
and they arent that stupid

MilkmanDan · May 21, 2003, 04:18 PM

Apple will most certainly allow Panther to run better on a G3 than 10.2 does. It would be really weird for Apple to exclude all the iBook owners (of the last year or so) from using Panther. I would think there may be some issues with it running on Clam Shell iBooks, but I highly doupt it.

Plus I do pray that my Beige G3 Tower will be able to run 10.3 without any upgrades, it makes a nice file server for my dorm room. (360 Gigs and growing! It impresses WIndows people when they find that their favorite anime server on campus is really a six year old Macintosh)

stace · May 21, 2003, 06:57 PM

i do agree that selling the 10.3 to g3's would be great for immediate profits.

but i think saying that panther will support g3 for sure isn't a good assumption.

i mean, i haven't been dealing with macs to know for sure what Apple is in it for (hardware sales or software sales?). maybe i'm suffering from limited thinking, but i see 2 paths for apple to follow. the first, in which panther brings the entire apple community forward (lots of software money). the second, in which panther breaks off a connection with dedicated older g3 users, and just brings forward the newer processor generations.

the way i see it, is that the latter would almost force g3 users into the newer processor generation (becuse they are dedicated anyways). and long term, would drive to hardware sales.

this may be overdramatizing the whole thing; maybe i'm thinking of panther as a bigger jump than it really is.

but just another thing to thinks about
stace;)

iamnid · May 21, 2003, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by stace:
i do agree that selling the 10.3 to g3's would be great for immediate profits.

but i think saying that panther will support g3 for sure isn't a good assumption.

i mean, i haven't been dealing with macs to know for sure what Apple is in it for (hardware sales or software sales?). maybe i'm suffering from limited thinking, but i see 2 paths for apple to follow. the first, in which panther brings the entire apple community forward (lots of software money). the second, in which panther breaks off a connection with dedicated older g3 users, and just brings forward the newer processor generations.

the way i see it, is that the latter would almost force g3 users into the newer processor generation (becuse they are dedicated anyways). and long term, would drive to hardware sales.

this may be overdramatizing the whole thing; maybe i'm thinking of panther as a bigger jump than it really is.

but just another thing to thinks about
stace

I doubt it... it's not likely that 10.3 won't work with computers sold only months before (current ibooks) when has apple ever done that?

Lateralus · May 21, 2003, 11:27 PM

I sense unwarranted paranoia...

ccsccs7 · May 22, 2003, 03:32 AM

Let's take a look at Mac OS 9. It runs on 5 different processors (Power PCs 601, 603(3), 604(e), G3, and G4). Mac OS X (up to 10.1) dropped a processor. Mac OS X Jaguar (10.2) dropped a couple more. (However the 603 and 604 processors were never official.) (Neat side point: with those upgrades availabe for older machines, you can run Mac OS 7 on a new G4!)

It's been said that without AltiVec (or the Velocity Engine) code/optimization, the G3--megahertz for megahertz-- out runs the G4. It's no lame chip, especially with all the improvements that have come to it over the years. Another point: When the G3 came out, it could beat a 604e (The tope of the line chip at the time) at a lower clock speed--and that chip was capable of running OS 10.1.

I'm also thinking a lot of the extra graphical work is being done by the graphics card which lessens the need for an AltiVec compatible CPU for the GUI.

Just my thoughts. What do you think?

Stratus Fear · 08:23 PM

This is really a stupid discussion. If Apple was trying to obsolete the G3, they would have stopped selling them at least a year ago, and then released Panther. They're still selling G3s, so it would be MONUMENTALLY STUPID to kick their userbase in the ass with Panther. If you thought that the OS9 -> OSX bitching was bad, then put yourself in the situation -- you wait for Panter, and then find out a good deal of Apple's userbase can't run 10.3 on their G3s. Now just imagine the complaints.

I'm sorry, there's just no question here, and I'm not so sure why people need to speculate and worry. Steve Jobs isn't a moron, and I'm sure he wouldn't let his company get away with something so stupid. Unless, that is, he's willing to bend over and take it from MS and kill off Apple Computer completely. Then by all means, speculate and worry.

Actually, perhaps that's a little bit overboard, but I know that most people would get pissed off and NOT lay down the money for a G4 just for an OS. To even think Apple would alienate their userbase like this without some kind of grand innovation (or evolution) in Panther (like the OS9 to OSX leap) is kind of, well, stupid.

davidcarr · May 22, 2003, 09:54 PM

MacOSRumors has already tested Panther on G3s. Click the link below to see for yourself. This should put an end to this discussion.

http://macosrumors.com/

alex_kac · May 22, 2003, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by stace:
i do agree that selling the 10.3 to g3's would be great for immediate profits.

but i think saying that panther will support g3 for sure isn't a good assumption.

Apple would NOT sell an OS upgrade that would alienate hardware that just sold a month ago. 2 years ago yes. Maybe even 1 year ago. But not up to the days of the introduction of the OS.

damosan · May 23, 2003, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by ebolla:

If Panther doesnt support and help the G3 then Apple would loose a whole lotta potential customers for their new $120 OS product
and they arent that stupid

You *really* think so?

Superchicken · May 23, 2003, 10:08 PM

Possibly for example sub 500Mhz G3s, but even that I dout it. I can run X.1 on a G3 333Mhz, the only thing that really runs SLOW is any of my graphics apps, the rest is useable, from what I understand Jaguar makes it faster. With a new finder which hopefully will be in the next update, and some other tweaks we would likely see profformance jump for the G3, after all the iBook may never even get a G4, more likely it would get the Gobi G3 and then go to a PPC 970, no need to give Moto iBook cash, it's a VERY high selling product, apple would be nuts to piss off both the entire iBook user base, and the base of older iMac users.

Cipher13 · May 25, 2003, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by davidcarr:
MacOSRumors has already tested Panther on G3s. Click the link below to see for yourself. This should put an end to this discussion.

http://macosrumors.com/

ROFL. Well, in that case...

Colonel Panic · May 25, 2003, 12:14 PM

it will certainly run, and performance will likely improve noticably, esp. if any of the improvements make better use of the vid cards, which are reasonably solid in recent ibooks compared to the universe of cards out there being used in systems running OS X.

dettociao · May 28, 2003, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by davidcarr:
MacOSRumors has already tested Panther on G3s. Click the link below to see for yourself. This should put an end to this discussion.

http://macosrumors.com/

Assuming we believe them. Which I most enthusiastically do not.

x user · May 29, 2003, 12:06 AM

Unless Apple updates the iBook to G4 BEFORE Panther is released, the it's a sure thing it will support the iBook.

slider · May 29, 2003, 04:05 PM

Apple wants both Hardware sales and Software sales. It certainly could be possible that Apple would say Panther will require a 8MB or more on the GPU and a G3 or greater running at least 500MHz, or something like that. My dad is running Jag on an iMac 333, it's OK for what he does, but it's no demon. I would think we're coming to the end of the line on these earlier Machines.

voodoo · May 30, 2003, 05:09 AM

I don't see why Panther shouldn't run on a G3.

sniffer · May 30, 2003, 06:43 AM

Stupid discussion. It's more likely that Apple will improve code rather than remove code. Relax! Arg!

Gandhi · May 30, 2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by davidcarr:
MacOSRumors has already tested Panther on G3s. Click the link below to see for yourself. This should put an end to this discussion.

http://macosrumors.com/

Downloading pr0n on your mom's iMac 233 doesn't count.

Justin216 · May 31, 2003, 11:06 AM

In all, we got to see Panther in action on seven separate Macs ranging from that iMac to Powerbook G3s and G4s, as well as a dual 1.42GHz PowerMac G4 and a Dual 1.33GHz Xserve

There ya go...it WILL run on G3s