[Lateralus]

One can only argue with a wall for so long.

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
One can only argue with a wall for so long.

A wall?

So when people don't agree with your opinion, this is your response?

I was looking for some intelligent debate or discussion.



It would help to pass the time as we wait for Apple's next minor speed increase.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:
...as we wait for Apple's next minor speed increase.

Give it a rest man, you're walking a fine line between having a debate and trolling with comments like that.

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:


Give it a rest man, you're walking a fine line between having a debate and trolling with comments like that.

I was not trying to troll.

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:

One can only argue with a wall for so long.

Give it a rest too, you're walking a fine line between having a debate and trolling for something else with comments like that.

Keep the discussion professional.

Let us end the discussion and agree that we disagree.

[MindFad]

Maybe they are coming pretty soon. Check out Apple's homepage.

[jyvin563]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Maybe they are coming pretty soon. Check out Apple's homepage.

Correctamundo! That is the first thing I thought when I saw that homepage. Why would, all of a sudden, they start pimping the G5 again if they weren't going to do something with it?

[I Me Mine]

Those quotes....."assitant" ?

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by jyvin563:
Why would, all of a sudden, they start pimping the G5 again if they weren't going to do something with it?

On the other hand, why WOULD they start pimping the G5 if they were going to do something about it? Why not just wait for the revision, if it's imminent?

That being said, it IS nice to see an actual COMPUTER featured on apple.com for a change...

[eddiecatflap]

..it's obv. they're waiting until the 3ghz comes online

( the fan update - to accomodate faster cpus - and the current g5 homepage splurge )

..then we'll have

dual 1.8 , dual 2.5 and dual 3.0 ( mid july )

..i don't call that a minor speed bump !!

[simX]

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:
Big long-winded rant about how Apple's surely not going to update anything until WWDC and that Apple sucks because it has a half-a-year upgrade cycle and because blah blah blah

[MindFad]

Originally posted by I Me Mine:
Those quotes....."assitant" ?

Yeah, I sent them an e-mail about it. Didn't fix it yet. Oh well.

[soul searching]

Originally posted by eddiecatflap:
...dual 2.0 , dual 2.5 and dual 3.0 ( mid july )....

[I Me Mine]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Yeah, I sent them an e-mail about it. Didn't fix it yet. Oh well.

It's fixed now - good work

[MindFad]

Originally posted by I Me Mine:
It's fixed now - good work

Haha, yeah, I just noticed. They changed the order in which the text rolls over, too. My job on this planet is done.

[Switched2Mac]

The memory sale ends this coming saturday (March 27th).

So our first Poll landmark date is approaching. If the cheerleader crowd is correct, we should see an announcement on monday (March 29th) concerning new Macs.

Frankly, this is the big date. The other dates in the poll are less likely to be announcement dates prior to WWDC.

And announcements are one thing, delivery is another. Announcing new Macs today but you cannot actually get one for 2 months is not the same thing.

I say use the brick-and-mortar Apple Stores as the measuring stick. The day you can walk into an Apple Store and walk out with the new product is the official new Mac day.

I hope I am wrong. I would love nothing more than to walk into my local Apple Store and walk out with a Dual 3.0 gHz G5 PowerMac or 1.6 gHz iMac 20". :-)

I eagerly await.....

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by simX:

Originally post by Switched2Mac:
Big long-winded rant about how Apple's surely not going to update anything until WWDC and that Apple sucks because it has a half-a-year upgrade cycle and because blah blah blah

Sad that you must falsely quote me.

If your opinion is that weak, why bother posting at all?

[Switched2Mac]

Update:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/...18102708.shtml

http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news...le.php/3327091

IBM is having a big event to discuss their POWER microprocessor architecture on March 31st.

Could this be around the same time that Apple announces new Macs?

Hmmm.

...... or maybe not.

[simX]

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:

Originally posted by simX:

Originally post by Switched2Mac:
Big long-winded rant about how Apple's surely not going to update anything until WWDC and that Apple sucks because it has a half-a-year upgrade cycle and because blah blah blah

Sad that you must falsely quote me.

If your opinion is that weak, why bother posting at all?

Looks like you "falsely quot[ed] me" too... my post said "Originally posted by Switched2Mac", not "Originally post by Switched2Mac". Consternation! Uproar! I demand that you give me an apology!

...

[jcadam]

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:
Update:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/...18102708.shtml

http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news...le.php/3327091

IBM is having a big event to discuss their POWER microprocessor architecture on March 31st.

Could this be around the same time that Apple announces new Macs?

Hmmm.

...... or maybe not.

Makes sense to me. Apple builds some hype around some new IBM processor by releasing a new machine right before IBM's event (Apple scratching IBM's back).

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by simX:
Looks like you "falsely quot[ed] me" too... my post said "Originally posted by Switched2Mac", not "Originally post by Switched2Mac". Consternation! Uproar! I demand that you give me an apology!

...

You get the point.

Now move along.

[fizzlemynizzle]

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:
I predict that Apple will not release any new products until the WWDC.

That is June 28th, 2004 folks.

My predictions have yet to be wrong.

looks like you're about to eat your words, lil buddy..

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by fizzlemynizzle:
looks like you're about to eat your words, lil buddy..

I can only hope!

More good news:

http://appleinsider.com/news.php?id=397

Xserve G5's are shipping now, or so it seems. Another good sign.

Perhaps next week I will be the proud owner of a Dual 3.0 gHz PowerMac.

Being wrong has never be so sweet.

But the jury is still out for now.

[gururafiki]

Originally posted by jcadam:
Makes sense to me. Apple builds some hype around some new IBM processor by releasing a new machine right before IBM's event (Apple scratching IBM's back).

And isn't the 30th a tuesday? I'm placeing my bets on the 30th.

[Switched2Mac]

I also see that Apple is ending their PowerBook G4 Trade-in program on March 26th as well.

The week following should be an interesting one. However, failing that:

There are 98 days and counting until WWDC!!!

[WinTroll]

98 days??????

dude i hope u r wrong on this

[WinTroll]

man the waiting is killing me....

[WinTroll]

maybe some ann this weekend.

[Todd Madson]

You've got two possibilities:
They wait until late summer to announce the 3 ghz machine and it's actual
availability is early-mid fall timeframe. My gut feeling says this one is probably
true.

Then the other possibility is the interim speed bump very soon:
2.0, 2.2. 2.5 ghz very likely. Not sure yet though.

I suspect this IBM event will at least mention the G5 Macs.

[Mac Zealot]

WWDC is a long wait, but it could be worth it if the dual 3ghz is released.

One of the BIGGEST things that apple needs to keep up is the 'bleeding edge technology' image they created along with the powermac g5. If the next release is simply a 'speed bump', I am more than convinced they will more than jeopardize this image.

Sure, to a mac fan anything is good, but people will look back, see that apple really boasted about how great the g5 was having all the new stuff, and say why doesn't the new g5 have new stuff too?

I'd happily wait to see a dual 3ghz topend, dual 2.2-2.4 lowend with PCI express across the line vs having a modest speedbump NOW with no actual updates to the line.

For those who want to protest this, the FW800 was a techno update to the MDD.

PCI-Express would be a start. New video cards from BOTH ATI and Nvidia would be even better, perhaps even giving the machine dual superdrives would be a nice idea (It is possible, with slight modifications to the current enclosure by making the front part a 'step', and changing the PCI area a bit so that it ducts upwards.. nah not too hard, probably not slight either but well worth it).

I just hope that come June, even if we don't see any activity now except price drops (to keep new g5 dual 2ghz owners from being mad when the new release eliminates even the current topend model), we'll see as big a release as what happened last year.

[Sealobo]

wow... April is coming. This thread's title is getting truer everyday.

[lngtones]

Judging by this new promotion, the thread is correct:

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...t_savings.html

Oh well.

[soul searching]

Originally posted by lngtones:
Judging by this new promotion, the thread is correct:

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...t_savings.html

Oh well.

Oi.

[DeathToWindows]

with the new deals/promos... nothing new til WWDC with 3.0DP G5

[BZ]

I tell you... this is good for me, but Apple must be losing sales.

I am someone who has had money to throw at a new PowerMac for the last couple of months. I would have gone for a 2.4 or 2.5.

Now, it looks like they are waiting till end of June and so will I.

BZ

[liquidh2o]

I think the writing is on the wall as far as what is going to happen with updates to the powermac.

Steve Jobs says 3.0ghz by summer time (though previously stated it would be within a year).

the new G5 xserves are delayed, maybe lack of mass production as far as the new processors are concerned.

G5 xserves finally arrive.

Reported upcoming dry spell of all apple products that have a G4 in them, yet there's still plenty of G5 powermacs to go around.

-----------------------------------

it seems pretty obvious to why the Powermacs will not see Rev. B until WWDC



So why the long wait for an update?

Answer: G5 xserves. Virginia Techs order of 1100 xserves is what apple normally sells in one quarter. I'm sure that put them behind in meeting demand right off the bat. And that's not to mention if any other institutions also decided to buy in.

So that leaves us with a lag in availability for the processors to be put into the new G5's.

Which puts us where we are at right now.

So why would apple release an incremental update this close to the proposed "summer of 3.0ghz" that steve jobs proposed?

A lot of the costs involved in making the powermacs are centered around ramping up the production process. It'd be a waste of money, and apple probably wouldn't be able to sell a sufficient quanity of powermacs between its revision and the next revision (3.0ghz) if they wanted to meet the timeframe that Steve Jobs had mentioned, and to make it profitable.

So either one of three things is going to happen

1.) there's going to be an incremental update soon, which will likely mean no 3.0ghz powermacs at WWDC

2.) no updates until WWDC, at which time we'll see the 3.0ghz

3.) apple will suprise us all and release an incremental update and then release 3.0ghz powermacs at WWDC

However, none of this baffles me as much as the supposed upcoming dryspell that Apple has forewarned resellers about relating to all apple computers that have a G4 in them. It's never been a problem in the past, and from the looks of it, there is no reason to think that Apple is going to sell a more signifigant quantity of those computers than the previous year-ago quarters.

That and Apple says they'll have enough quantity of powermac G5's though.

Sounds to me like we may see either some of the current G4 lineup sporting G5's come WWDC, or we'll see all-together new computers showcasing the G5.


food for thought.

[Switched2Mac]

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...emory_con.html

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...t_savings.html

Seems more and more Mac forum readers are agreeing with what I have been saying all along.

Now why would Apple extend their "savings" programs until June 26th all of a sudden? Let's see. June 26th is right before WWDC isn't it?

Random act? I think not.

Now, if they bring out a Dual 3.0 G5, that you can actually purchase around WWDC time, then it is worth the wait.

But I suspect that you will still only see minor speed bumps, even waiting until WWDC.

And remember, announcing new G5 Macs and being able to walk into your local Apple Store and buy one are two different things.

My prediction was that you would not be able to buy one until WWDC.

But March 30th (tuesday) is the day to watch for. Everyone seems to think that will be an announcement day. So we wait until tuesday....

[Eug Wanker]

it seems pretty obvious to why the Powermacs will not see Rev. B until WWDC

So why the long wait for an update?

Answer: G5 xserves. Virginia Techs order of 1100 xserves is what apple normally sells in one quarter. I'm sure that put them behind in meeting demand right off the bat. And that's not to mention if any other institutions also decided to buy in.

Huh? Apple sells 200000 Power Macs in a quarter. VT ordered 1100 Xserves. That's all of 1%, equivalent to about 1 day's worth of machines in a quarter.

[liquidh2o]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Huh? Apple sells 200000 Power Macs in a quarter. VT ordered 1100 Xserves. That's all of 1%, equivalent to about 1 day's worth of machines in a quarter.

given apple's track record for updates... initially their supply of new product is very limited(on the high end)

And if we're going to see an update to the powermac it's going to include the new 970FX processor in it.

The same one that's used in the new G5 xserves.

The same xserve that usually sells 1000 units a quarter.

So to start off apple is already behind on meeting demand for the xserves(and one can assume that the delay of the xserve was possibly due to having an insufficient # of cpu's),

so if they had already started producing initial quantities of processors for the next rev. powermacs(big if), chances are to meet demand of a product that's already been promised and released(the xserve), they're pulling those chips and putting them in the xserves to catch up with demand(that's assuming they were already trying to ramp up production of cpu's for the powermac, big if).

which in turn decreases the quantity of cpu's available for the powermac. Apple does not release a computer until it has x(determined by apple) number of that product ready to sell.

So chances are if they wanted to release an updated powermac it would've been awhile ago.

so......

it's not hard to think that maybe someone high up decided "we don't have enough cpu's at the present time to sufficiently meet demand for the new xserve and a Rev. B powermac, so instead of waiting for the cpu's and then having an incremental update so close to the 3.0ghz promised land, we'll use the current batch of 970fx cpu's to meet and maintain demand of the xserves, and then ramp up production of 3.0ghz shortly to meet the WWDC date.

Keep in mind we have no idea what kind of yield IBM is getting off of their 970fx processors and we have no idea how far along they are in the mass production process.


just my impressions from my understanding of how Apple works.

[Eug Wanker]

given apple's track record for updates... initially their supply of new product is very limited(on the high end)

A G5 2.0 970FX is not the high end. I would expect a 2.5, or possibly higher.

So to start off apple is already behind on meeting demand for the xserves(and one can assume that the delay of the xserve was possibly due to having an insufficient # of cpu's),

so if they had already started producing initial quantities of processors for the next rev. powermacs(big if), chances are to meet demand of a product that's already been promised and released(the xserve), they're pulling those chips and putting them in the xserves to catch up with demand(that's assuming they were already trying to ramp up production of cpu's for the powermac, big if).

Like I said, that argument doesn't make sense, because if VT is adding to the delay, the delay would be only 1 day. Even if they had 3 VTs, that would be all of a 3 day delay. Or perhaps, to give you the benefit of the doubt, at most up to a week if you're talking single processor G5 2.0 low end machines. However, we've been waiting for G5 970FX Power Mac updates for months now.

IOW, the bulk of the delay is because of something other than VT and friends.

[Switched2Mac]

Another blurb:

http://appleinsider.com/news.php?id=405

"...The company has failed to revise the Power Mac line since that time almost a year ago..."

Failed? Yes indeed. A whole year goes by with no updates. This is not how you get new sales.

The switch to IBM as the source of their CPU's is most likely the cause, IMHO. If it is not IBM holding up the production of new PowerMacs, then who is it? One forum reader informed me that IBM was making the G3 and has always maintain a relationship with Apple. He claimed it should be smooth sailing, as such, during the transition from Motorola to IBM. But as we see here, the results speak for themselves. Since there are no new PowerMacs nearly a year later.

I should be enjoying my Dual 3.0 gHz G5 right now (or even a minor speed bumped G5). Obviously, something has gone wrong in the process.

I remember reading somewhere (and I wish I could reference the link) that the new G5's from IBM had failed some heat/thermal tests while Apple was working to integrate them into the Xservers. Odd. Since the chip is supposed to use 1/3 the wattage and hence 1/3 the heat output. Some would argue back that the Xserve is smaller and thinner than a PowerMac and that the heat challenges are not trivial. But then using that same comparison and logic, how the heck do you think they are going to get that same G5 into a PowerBook!?!? The 15" and especially the 12" PowerBooks run extremely hot. Causing case warping, discomfort and other problems now using only a G4. Heat in a laptop is not a trivial issue and is a constant challenge to engineers.

Apple having resolved the Xserve G5 "thermal" issues, has to quickly satisfy the need for Xserver orders. This is necessary to show corporate IT shops that they can reliably provide product. This means to me that all new 90mm G5 chips coming off the line at IBM are going straight into Xservers and out the door to corporate customers.

If there were an announcement this coming week and the subsequent ability to purchase the announced boxes this week, I suspect that the G5 speeds would be identical to those being delivered in the Xservers going out the door now. May not even be a speed bump but simply a CPU improvement (less wattage, less heat, less fan noise) and then some nice additions to the PowerMacs (they are more than just a CPU!) such as larger hard drives, blue-tooth built-in as standard, 6X or 8X SuperDrive, bluetooth keyboard/mouse as standard, etc.

These would be considered the safer "Rev. B" models as well keep consumers satisfied until WWDC.

The 4X SuperDrive is getting rather old. Time to move up to a 6X or 8X Pioneer model and support both the "+" and "-" format too.

How lame would it be if the new PowerMacs still use the same 4X SuperDrive?

Fellow forum readers, what are your thoughts?

[Switched2Mac]

I just want my Dual 3 gHz G5 PowerMac!

Is that so wrong?

[Evan_11]

Apple is waiting to do a considerable update. There probably could of been a 2.4 update by now but instead it looks like they are holding out for the big one. What will be interesting is if we see a drop in price on the current models. I find it hard to believe that literally overnight you'll be able to go from buying a 2.0 to a 3.0 ghz machine for the same price. I'm almost 100% that we'll also see 8x DVD-R/RW and all the extra things people have been looking for (well except for a case re-design. I like it as it is, I just want more drive space under the hood). I just want to know if I wait a few more weeks will I be able to get a dual 2.0 for $2500 and a 23" for $1500....

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
Apple is waiting to do a considerable update. There probably could of been a 2.4 update by now but instead it looks like they are holding out for the big one. What will be interesting is if we see a drop in price on the current models. I find it hard to believe that literally overnight you'll be able to go from buying a 2.0 to a 3.0 ghz machine for the same price. I'm almost 100% that we'll also see 8x DVD-R/RW and all the extra things people have been looking for (well except for a case re-design. I like it as it is, I just want more drive space under the hood). I just want to know if I wait a few more weeks will I be able to get a dual 2.0 for $2500 and a 23" for $1500....

I would consider buying a low-end Dual 2.0 G5 as a speedbump. But only if it was $1999, used the new die G5 chips, and had a faster SuperDrive.

I agree with you too. I like the look of the PowerMac as it is. It has that great Apple innovation look to it, yet fits in perfectly in an office environment. I hope that the iMac is upgraded to the same type of material or look. Not sure how they could do that in the rounded shape, but Apple can do amazing things design-wise.

The PowerMac G4 had that "...let's all hop in the clown car and drive to the circus..." look to it. Much like the original iMacs. The current PowerMac look is professional and befitting a corporate workstation. Yet still informing your coworkers that you "Think Different"

One of the posters in this popular thread mentioned that the IBM Event next week will have them talking about their new G5 chip. But he says that the article mentions a 2.5 gHz G5 only.

That tells me "minor speedbump" near WWDC. WTF?

[Switched2Mac]

92 more days until WWDC and minor speedbumped PowerMacs.

[liquidh2o]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
A G5 2.0 970FX is not the high end. I would expect a 2.5, or possibly higher.

Like I said, that argument doesn't make sense, because if VT is adding to the delay, the delay would be only 1 day. Even if they had 3 VTs, that would be all of a 3 day delay. Or perhaps, to give you the benefit of the doubt, at most up to a week if you're talking single processor G5 2.0 low end machines. However, we've been waiting for G5 970FX Power Mac updates for months now.

IOW, the bulk of the delay is because of something other than VT and friends.

you're assuming that all 200,000 powermacs that are sold in a quarter are available from Day 1 of the quarter.

Can you remember when Apple first came out with the powermac G5 and how limited the initial quantities were?

What makes you think the same situation isn't happening with the next revision?

You don't start ramping up a process and suddenly 300,000 cpu's appear. It takes time, and the time it takes is based on the capability of the plant as well as the % of the yield you're getting from the fab. process.

The yield can vary greatly and usually it improves as the production process is tweaked and improved.

I just don't think you're grasping the bigger/whole concept.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:
92 more days until WWDC and minor speedbumped PowerMacs.

Stop it troll.

[Luca Rescigno]

Get ready to eat a great big, steaming pile of crow come WWDC, Switched2Mac. You have no idea if there are going to be only "minor speedbumps" or not. You're just making that up because you've created mental blocks that prevent you from ever imagining Apple doing something right. And 3 GHz G5s at WWDC would definitely be Apple doing something right.

[Mac Zealot]

What I'd laugh to see is along the lines of this come july..

PowerMac G5:
Dual 3ghz (1.5ghz bus), fastest ram avaialble, etc etc - $2999
Dual 2.6ghz (1.3ghz bus), etc - $2199
Dual 2.2ghz (1.1ghz bus), etc - $1699

All with 8x DVD�RW drives, PCI-Express, and whatnot

A 1ghz gap between bottom line and top line would be insane.

[redJag]

I guarantee dual 2.5Ghz G5s at WWDC, a little birdie told me!

[moep]

Well, I still hope for a 3Ghz Top-Model coming along in July.
Apple _needs_ a major speed bump anyway:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15015