[M-Atey]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
ambush is just a hater. Ignore him.

A playa hate-a, boyeeee!!


...


Sorry, I will never do that again.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
And BTW, that screenshot of Sosumi that has been posted a while back in this topic, guess when it was taken... 01-08-02. It's 2004 right? http://theme.sosumi.org/

I have posted stuff from 2001 already.

[ambush]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
You keep saying that but do you know by what means is it illegal? Off what do you base this assumption?

It's a modified Extras.rsrc.

You modify a file in the Mac OS X system and redistribute it without permission.

Please read the license agreement when installing software, thanks.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ambush:
It's a modified Extras.rsrc.

You modify a file in the Mac OS X system and redistribute it without permission.

Apple knew what I was doing. Apple didn't care.

Difference.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
It's a modified Extras.rsrc.

You modify a file in the Mac OS X system and redistribute it without permission.

Please read the license agreement when installing software, thanks.

Hmmm... My other part of that post I made last was, then you think Resexellence should be made to take down its entire Mac OS X theme collection? Because those people are doing the same thing and obviously there's nothing wrong with it or Apple would have had a coniption fit a long time ago. According to your logic anything done to the part of the OS's GUI that displays the visuals should be off limits. Then how did Kaleidoscope get away with what it was doing all these years? How is Shapeshifter?

You know jack squat about what's legal and what's not. It's simply your opinion. Thank goodness you're not making the laws.

[TheDisaster]

Are you guys still arguing about this?

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I have posted stuff from 2001 already.

Post something recent! Oh, wait... It's still a WIP. Nevermind. But I do like what they've done with the Windows version of the Sosumi theme. And that, boys and girls, is a theme Zimph gave permission for. Which is the point of what we're talking about here (man, I feel like Agent Smith talking).

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
Post something recent! Oh, wait... It's still a WIP. Nevermind. But I do like what they've done with the Windows version of the Sosumi theme. And that, boys and girls, is a theme Zimph gave permission for. Which is the point of what we're talking about here (man, I feel like Agent Smith talking).

Yeah they asked me if they could port it, I said yup. They did a good job.

[M-Atey]

http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/

Agh! Such illegal goings on! *tsk tsk tsk*

lol

[TheDisaster]

Most of you guys are getting along on this now, and I don't want to fuel this anymore at all since the subject has been solved, but does anybody remember this mess>? I ask just because I'm curious now about the first themes that were coming out for the earlier versions of OS X. How many themes did starfleetX put out? I remember after a while over on AppleInsider.com he began warning people about how dangerous themeing OS X was (pre SS days).

[Zimphire]

Sneak peak of a more streamlined Sosumi

[M-Atey]

I'd say it's a person's perogative to be as original/unoriginal as he/she likes but don't confuse homage with copying. And tweaking is always inherrantly "dangerous". Just depends on how much risk you're willing to take. Mess with resource files enough and have a messed up GUI unable to be used. Tweak it exactly as you know how it'll be tweaked then you should be fine. Thanks goodness for Shapeshifter. But even then it depends on the programmer's skills and competency with code.

The world's full of risks, some big some insignificant.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Sneak peak of a more streamlined Sosumi

Ooooo...

And, Zimph is also human. Things that take time also take energy whether physical (staying up late wondering why one thing won't go right) or mental (working up the motivation to do something in retread territory can take time. Often not a problem for those who simply copy others).

[Komisar]

Zimphire, what app skins do you plan on adding to the re-re-release?

[mac15]

Looks similar to the Preview on resex Zimphire, what app was that window opened on?

[MacDog]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
You keep saying that but do you know by what means is it illegal? Off what do you base this assumption?

Oh for the love of mother f#cking God, would you stupid jack@sses shut the f#ck up already!!!!

This thread has the largest collection of legal experts, and morally perfect people than anywhere I've ever seen!

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by mac15:
Looks similar to the Preview on resex Zimphire, what app was that window opened on?

"Preview"

Same app.

[Kujo]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Sneak peak of a more streamlined Sosumi

it looks different to me, and it looks alot better. do something good with the finder!

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Apple knew what I was doing. Apple didn't care.

Difference.

It's illegal but tolerated.

Like After proms where under 18 drink alcohol. Police knows it, but tolerates it. At least they do where I live hehe.

Originally posted by M-Atey:
Hmmm... My other part of that post I made last was, then you think Resexellence should be made to take down its entire Mac OS X theme collection? Because those people are doing the same thing and obviously there's nothing wrong with it or Apple would have had a coniption fit a long time ago. According to your logic anything done to the part of the OS's GUI that displays the visuals should be off limits. Then how did Kaleidoscope get away with what it was doing all these years? How is Shapeshifter?

You know jack squat about what's legal and what's not. It's simply your opinion. Thank goodness you're not making the laws.

I'm patient with you. Am I not?

OK. Kaleidoscope (sp?) worked way differently than ShapeShifter.

ShapeShifter patches an Extras.rsrc file, which is a modified Apple System File.

Simply my opinion? Nope.
I'm very interested in law, read a lot about IP, going to law school soon, have had law courses.

And I'm soooo happy Apple tolerates it. Remember, it's all about redistributing a modified file that is not yours.

[ambush]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/

Agh! Such illegal goings on! *tsk tsk tsk*

lol

Newcomer?

http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_ht...04-23-01.shtml

[sixz]

Originally posted by ambush:
Newcomer?

http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_ht...04-23-01.shtml

...Michael Rabe created the first entirely new theme for MacOS X and after posting it on ResExcellence...

Thanks for the link - I remember reading that when it was first posted.
Seems Coyle believes Rabe was the first true pioneer too.

I hung around Desktopper alot in the early OSX beta days and
download Xenogenesis first release and still feel it's in the top
three best themes ( even if it's just an aqua mod ) ever made.
It was truly a pro's choice for usability.
Similar to the ( made much later ) Quicksilver theme.

Seems Zimple and myself had at least one thing in common - a distaste for stripes.

[sixz]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Sneak peak of a more streamlined Sosumi

Seems someone has been getting some inspiration from Mr.Yamashita work.

Good thing too, those 'roll-bars' were really naff.

[eyevaan]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Sneak peak of a more streamlined Sosumi

I like the overall softness of the widgets. Back to the original look.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
Thanks for the link - I remember reading that when it was first posted.
Seems Coyle believes Rabe was the first true pioneer too.

He was one of the first in the ResEx theme archive. OS X themeing was going on for about a year before that.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
Seems someone has been getting some inspiration from Mr.Yamashita work.

Good thing too, those 'roll-bars' were really naff.

No, I am going back to my original design.

http://www.dailymac.com/content/editorials/sosumi.html

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by eyevaan:
I like the overall softness of the widgets. Back to the original look.

Yeah, I changed it because at the time a few others started a OS 9 look. I was trying to differentiate the two.

I liked the original look better.

[FB Eye]

Speaking of early themers, anybody remember that Akio dude who made BIG Indigo and BIG Graphite?





Sorry for the small images, but that's all I found...

Read all about it here
Scroll down the page... Resexcellence even states that in their opinion it's the first official release of an OS X theme!!!

Is that true?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by FB Eye:
Resexcellence even states that in their opinion it's the first official release of an OS X theme!!!

Is that true?

It wasn't the first Aqua variant no. It may have been ResEx's first release. But there were a few before that.

But yeah, it was one of the first "themes" that were just Aqua modifications.

No images were changed, just the color of the images. We saw a lot of this at first.

I was making the "Simple Aqua" theme around this time.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
He was one of the first in the ResEx theme archive. OS X themeing was going on for about a year before that.

Michael Rabe is one of my good friends. I've known him for a pretty long time, long before before OS X DP came out. We worked on several themes together...

I can confirm that he began themeing OS X before anyone did. Definitely before ResEx theme archive went live. I can't remember the name of the theme but it isn't Ti.

Not fueling the fire... Just getting some facts straightened out. Lot of misinformation about Rabe around the net.

On the topic of Sosumi theme, I look forward to see what they will look/feel like with 90� lighting

[Komisar]

We keep on going back to the same questions from 20 post ago... this thread should die... or be locked... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

[Randman]

Originally posted by Komisar:
We keep on going back to the same questions from 20 post ago... this thread should die... or be locked... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

Yes, please.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Michael Rabe is one of my good friends. I've known him for a pretty long time, long before before OS X DP came out. We worked on several themes together...

I can confirm that he began themeing OS X before anyone did. Definitely before ResEx theme archive went live. I can't remember the name of the theme but it isn't Ti.

Do you remember the first themes that were out, they were stripeless flat and had purple themeing elements? They were really ugly, but I had thought these were the first OS X modifications. The first I saw. The first themes were all Aqua varients.

On the topic of Sosumi theme, I look forward to see what they will look/feel like with 90� lighting

I messed around with the 90� look awhile back. It doesn't look the same. It will probably be 120�.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by MacDog:
Oh for the love of mother f#cking God, would you stupid jack@sses shut the f#ck up already!!!!

This thread has the largest collection of legal experts, and morally perfect people than anywhere I've ever seen!

Stopped two hours before you posted, sugah. About the time I headed off for bed for work tomorrow. Normally I'd be right up there with you on everybody being a armchair legal expert, but you're spazing out so I'll stand over here, you stand over there.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Komisar:
We keep on going back to the same questions from 20 post ago... this thread should die... or be locked... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

Eh, this is the history of OS X theming being discussed. Unless it gets really ugly, it's informative and interesting.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
It's illegal but tolerated.

Like After proms where under 18 drink alcohol. Police knows it, but tolerates it. At least they do where I live hehe.



I'm patient with you. Am I not?

OK. Kaleidoscope (sp?) worked way differently than ShapeShifter.

ShapeShifter patches an Extras.rsrc file, which is a modified Apple System File.

Simply my opinion? Nope.
I'm very interested in law, read a lot about IP, going to law school soon, have had law courses.

And I'm soooo happy Apple tolerates it. Remember, it's all about redistributing a modified file that is not yours.

They work differently because they are working on different OSes effecting different things. But doing them similarly. There was no Extras.rsrc file in Mac OS 9. There were resources in the various elements of the system however that were temporarilly patched (if you've never used ResEdit then I suggest messing around with it to see what was patched). Same deal with Extras.rsrc as far as I've been told.

But, weren't you saying that it was illegal? Now you're dodging the issue by finally accepting that Apple tollerates it, but just tollerates it. If it were truely illegal wouldn't Apple be jumping on people a lot more. But all they've done is jump on people making Aquaesque, Pantheresque and brushed metal type themes plus the code involved with Aqua for other OSes. Do you understand the pattern here? And the shakey backwards engineering arguement is weak at best.

And, really. Are you really studying to be a lawyer? How conveeeeeeenient for an arguement such as this. Lends real credibility to your arguement, bubba.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
Newcomer?

http://www.resexcellence.com/hack_ht...04-23-01.shtml

So, I take it you're no fan of themeing. And that you wish there was no such thing. Because themeing inevitably has to do something to the OS's GUI to theme.

Sure, Apple's within its rights. But are they right?

ResExcellence supports this position and if you peruse the theme archive, you will not see a single theme with even a slight resemblance to Aqua.

The Aqua look isn't being infringed upon.

None of the artists or developers have the resources to stand up to Apple.

And that's how easy it is for Apple to win. Doesn't mean they're right in doing so.

I'm just wondering. Are you agreeing with Apple or are you agreeing with the themeing community?

[Komisar]

Why are you guys getting afriad of apple... so what you infringed on a copyright... but look they dont really care so stop worrying.... i bet steve job's has shapeshifter installed on his comp

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by Komisar:
Why are you guys getting afriad of apple... so what you infringed on a copyright... but look they dont really care so stop worrying.... i bet steve job's has shapeshifter installed on his comp

Most likely. I'm thinking Steve lets his lawyers do all the legal thinking and sometimes they get overzealous.

[ambush]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
So, I take it you're no fan of themeing. And that you wish there was no such thing. Because themeing inevitably has to do something to the OS's GUI to theme.

Sure, Apple's within its rights. But are they right?



The Aqua look isn't being infringed upon.



And that's how easy it is for Apple to win. Doesn't mean they're right in doing so.

I'm just wondering. Are you agreeing with Apple or are you agreeing with the themeing community?

Don't worry man, I was just like you when I came and first posted on these boards. It's ok you'll eventually grow up.

Anyway.

You might be interested to know that Finlay Dobbie and I are the creators of the open source ThemeChanger project. Even if I'm retired from the theming community and that ThemeChanger is dead, I'm still encouraging theme creation and I'm a satisfied user of Unsanity's ShapeShifter.

If Apple sues themers, it's just bad PR, so they don't do it. And it's a good thing they don't do it because we can enjoy cool themes.

If you remember, my original point was about Zimphire asking people to respect his work when he did not respect Apple's. I like to tell Zimphire how ironic he is. I guess I'm special in that way.

By the way, is it me or you're finally admitting your errors about the legality of theming in your last post? Now that's a step toward maturity! Congrats

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ambush:
Don't worry man, I was just like you when I came and first posted on these boards. It's ok you'll eventually grow up.

Heh, you can't be serious. This thread has shown you haven't grown up yet ambush.

If you remember, my original point was about Zimphire asking people to respect his work when he did not respect Apple's. I like to tell Zimphire how ironice he is. I guess I'm special in that way.

And we showed you how your point was faulty. How it was not the same. Apple goes after people who use their images as well. I would never go after someone that used Sosumi as a base to make an original theme of their own. That would be silly.

You were just being a hater, and got busted for it. Now you are trying to justify your hatefulness with spin. Please stop being a jerk.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
Most likely. I'm thinking Steve lets his lawyers do all the legal thinking and sometimes they get overzealous.

More than likely.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
Don't worry man, I was just like you when I came and first posted on these boards. It's ok you'll eventually grow up.

Anyway.

You might be interested to know that Finlay Dobbie and I are the creators of the open source ThemeChanger project. Even if I'm retired from the theming community and that ThemeChanger is dead, I'm still encouraging theme creation and I'm a satisfied user of Unsanity's ShapeShifter.

If Apple sues themers, it's just bad PR, so they don't do it. And it's a good thing they don't do it because we can enjoy cool themes.

If you remember, my original point was about Zimphire asking people to respect his work when he did not respect Apple's. I like to tell Zimphire how ironic he is. I guess I'm special in that way.

By the way, is it me or you're finally admitting your errors about the legality of theming in your last post? Now that's a step toward maturity! Congrats

Ok, enough of the insults. I'm not saying themeing is illegal. You are and you seem to be confusing at what point it is illegal. Then again I've argued this with many people who can't seem to differentiate so maybe there is a general confusion about all this.


Stay away from the code that displays this. That includes the very pixels you see.


Sure, you can use this to theme. It's not Apple's. It's your's.

See how easy?

[ambush]

What?

[M-Atey]

[Sorry, made a new post when I could have rolled it into the previous one]

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ambush:
Don't worry man, I was just like you when I came and first posted on these boards. It's ok you'll eventually grow up.

Originally posted by ambush:
What?

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

You post a funny picture, I post a funny picture.

Close this already.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
You post a funny picture, I post a funny picture.

Close this already.

You'd like that, wouldn't you? What is it do you have against themeing anyway? Sour grapes? Bitter taste?

Let's just assume you don't understand the point of a Sosumi theme (the history, the homage, the novelty) and move on.

[eFX]

Can people now see why BBX never released Omega snippets, otherwise you would have threads exactly like this with their own ego problems "this how it should look like" But I guess ingorance gets in their way no respect for the authors after all... as this thread looked rather nasty on pages 2 - 3.

After this post I'll bet all the flaming starts up again

And speaking of ShapeShifter... has anyone decided making money out of themes, complete kits, fully themed GUI, full icons, wallpapers players you name it, say the proffessional themers from reading up someone said its illegal? this can't be true is it?

Oh and when I mean making themes no lame ports, ORIGINAL work is involved yet thats what people seem to forget these days.

Oh and who rattled into Phil, atleast he has the decency to host a great site like Macthemes for the respectful authors or whats left...

[eyevaan]

quote:
Originally posted by M-Atey:
Most likely. I'm thinking Steve lets his lawyers do all the legal thinking and sometimes they get overzealous.


Apple does get REAL upset and DOES file serious complaints against violators of what they perceive to be their intellectual property.

Two people experienced this first hand:
Allegro Theme Project
Michael Rabe

Perhaps now they tolerate the free thinking that makes theming so interesting, but it was not always so.

[M-Atey]

Oh and when I mean making themes no lame ports, ORIGINAL work is involved yet thats what people seem to forget these days.

I think that's the point. As long as you use your own code and pictures and only take advantage of (as we do everyday using our Macs) but not incorporate existing Apple code to display your code and pictures it's fine. You just have to make sure what's your's is your's and what's Apple's is Apple's. Otherwise taken to the logical end if that weren't true then what's to stop Apple from preventing you from even using Mac OS X for anything you want to do? The various industries that rely on Mac OS X now would be SOL.

I read something a while back on icons and intellectual property and it explained how one could easilly avoid copyright violation if they were to change a certain percentage (I think it was something like 78% or 80%) of an original image to the point where it then becomes original by itself or just avoid infringement altogether by being completely original. Something in MacAddict I think.