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News on 10.2 (Page 2)
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Ambrosia - el Presidente
Join Date: Sep 2000
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A few things I do know that are not under NDA:
-- Mac OS X 10.2 will be built with gcc 3.0.x, which has a number of optimizations for the PPC platform in it (rolled in by Apple engineers), including some nice options to reduce function overhead that should result in a 10% speed boost across the board just by recompiling
-- A chance to the way messages are passed in Cocoa speeds up message passing (events, etc.) 15% across the board
-- The first priority for this build is getting some new features done; the second priority is speed. I imagine it will be faster than 10.1.x, but it may not be as dramatic as from 10.0.x --> 10.1.x
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Mac Enthusiast
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molki that is great news!
i take it the the 3.X compiler will be released in a new dev package with 10.2 as well right? I feel one of the best things Apple has ever done is to include the dev tools. So many unix/linux ports and cool apps from people who never before thought about getting into programming are heading this way and IMHO it is just amazing.
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Mac Elite
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Screens of 10.2
Yeah I know these are old news, but just thought I'd add some color to the thread.
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by imperium:
<STRONG>
I take it from your location that you went to the EICC one: nice to have almost met you!
yours
the guy who asked for Knockout 2 and got it!</STRONG>
I was the one with dreadlocks who wanted Painter but got a magazine....
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Junior Member
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Screens of 10.2
Yeah I know these are old news, but just thought I'd add some color to the thread.
nice shots. but your web site says it's 10.3!
Apple's gonna be pissed!
(and your QT movie is gone? )
[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: maroma ]
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by maroma:
<STRONG>
nice shots. but your web site says it's 10.3!
Apple's gonna be pissed!
(and your QT movie is gone? )
[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: maroma ]</STRONG>
It's not my site. Just something I ran across in a quest for icons.
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Senior User
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Originally posted by mattstoton:
<STRONG>I *know* 10.2 will have themes. Ok, I don't really know, but its pretty obvious it will. </STRONG>
Why? Or are you just drunk?
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Iguana: The other green meat.
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Senior User
Join Date: Oct 2000
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A few things I do know that are not under NDA:
-- Mac OS X 10.2 will be built with gcc 3.0.x, which has a number of optimizations for the PPC platform in it (rolled in by Apple engineers), including some nice options to reduce function overhead that should result in a 10% speed boost across the board just by recompiling
-- A chance to the way messages are passed in Cocoa speeds up message passing (events, etc.) 15% across the board
-- The first priority for this build is getting some new features done; the second priority is speed. I imagine it will be faster than 10.1.x, but it may not be as dramatic as from 10.0.x --> 10.1.x
Good news. Glad to know that we're still at a point where updated compilers will bring speed boosts, shows how much can still be done. With further hand optimisation of the code, the OS will eventually be quite responsive.
I wonder what new features Apple has in store for us, aside from OS9 features left out in earlier revs... I hope Sherlock is in for a major overhaul... An updated FS would be nice too
Moki, as a developper, have you got any idea (that wouldn't be covered by an NDA) about what direction Apple is taking regarding meta-data? Did the petition have any effect on their views?
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Soyons R�alistes, Demandons l'impossible
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2001
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As for Labels, I don't think we'll see them in their current form. They were a rather cheesy hack anyway; of some use, but only in a very limited sense. More likely, if we see something like a "labels 2.0" it'll be in a form more akin to that of a real workflow tool, and thus far more useful. One possible example: associating a file with different apps, depending on its label. This would be very useful, when you consider that people often uses different apps for different phases of the creation process.
it was MUCH MORE than just a cheesy hack. GEEZ I keep saying over and over again on this forum = Spring Loaded Folders AND Labels are ESSENTIAL for efficient File Management.
as obvious reasons for SLF (especially in Colomn view [not necessarily opening up new windows[) has already been explained in this thread I'll again repeat what I said of Labels about 6 months ago:
Say I have just offloaded 400 digital camera pics from my digital camera into one folder (no I don't use iPhoto). well after giving each pic (file) an icon with Pic2Icon (fantastic 3rd party 'hack') I will now proceed the long task of viewing each photo on my screen, full size. Hey some are going to be blurred and only by viewing them on screen will I notice that the quality isn't all there compared to the next one --- These I give a Cool/Blue Label - because although they may be blurred, as a professional designer I may actually prefer this type of image for a specific project one day, not today. So to cut a long story short, I'll have all blurred photos in a folder of 400 labelled blue. OK I'll remember this in months to come because all my blurred photos are always labelled blue. Some super doopa spectacular shots will be labelled Hot/Red. And so forth... In a months time I'll be requiring a particular type of blurred photo...
a) I can either browse thru 400 photographs again and find the one I am looking for or,
b) I can just look for 5 or 6 Blue Labelled photos and find the one I was looking for, fast!!
Labels, get it!? They are as needed for efficient file management as are Spring Loaded Folders.
Thank You.
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally posted by SYN:
<STRONG>Moki, as a developper, have you got any idea (that wouldn't be covered by an NDA) about what direction Apple is taking regarding meta-data? Did the petition have any effect on their views?</STRONG>
I am actually thinking of starting up a petition myself. In it I will move that all people who quote John Siracusa's metadata article, refer to the metadata petition, or whinge about Apple's policy on filename extensions, will be bashed in the face repeatedly with a rusty shovel.
Here is the link to the petition.
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Senior User
Join Date: Jul 2001
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My No. 1 request after working days in FCP 3 / Adobe after effects:
BETTER FILE DIALOGS!
For god's sake, let us be able to resize the damn columns!
AND
Let us bring the list view back!
I'm so tired of going to the finder to see the creation date / size
And a preview would be in it's place!
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I arrived late at this discussion, but I wanted to point out about the earlier discussion about being able to switch logins without having to log out.
I dont know for certain how XP does it, and I wanted to ask someone here who *knows*. . Please no guesses. either tell me from experience or because you're a microsoft engineer.
When a user switches logins without logging out. Does XP do:
1) saves state of the first login and then start up the second login.
or
2) concurrently run both user environments?
The first is far easier to implement, but it doesnt do kindly to things that require constant updates, such as leaving a IRC process running, or a file download. This however reduces the burden on the CPU and memory usage.
The second is probably more difficult to implement, and it increases the system resources. Basically turning it into a true multiuser operating system.
Anyone know?
-tim
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Originally posted by a holck:
<STRONG>My No. 1 request after working days in FCP 3 / Adobe after effects:
BETTER FILE DIALOGS!
For god's sake, let us be able to resize the damn columns!
AND
Let us bring the list view back!
I'm so tired of going to the finder to see the creation date / size
And a preview would be in it's place!</STRONG>
Agree totally, PS 7 beta made me realize that too. When opening a file, it previews in the right column, but if the pic is too big, then you can resize all the window you want, the file info will not appear. Also, saving for the web with PS you can save html and save only images. But PS will create an images folder if you don't save the images in the root directory, so sometimes, (with the 2 columns) you think you are in the right directory only to find out images were saved in a new images directory in the old images directory. The open/save dialogs should be list view, or an option to use list view. The columns is too confusing trying to figure out if the right column is not only selected but the directory is selected in it as well. That has screwed me up a few times using the PS beta.
Give Apple feedback, I did.
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All Your Signature Are Belong To Us!
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
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The biggest things I want to see in 10.2 are: More theme options, GameSprocket support for Carbon games, classic mode uses the OS X GUI, and just more control over the system in general. Multi docks and desktops would be useful, too. Oh, and a *working* ftp client built into the finder. And quicktime 6. And a million dollars. hmm
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Senior User
Join Date: May 2001
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Are they seeding builds of 10.2 to developers? Really wierd there's almost no leaks or info at all for 10.2...
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Mac Enthusiast
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You can resize columns in save and open dialogs (at least in Cocoa apps) if you hold down the option key when dragging the resize widget. I completely doubt Apple will include themes in 10.2--it goes against the philosophy of consistency. And BTY, from what I've read I believe the multi-user feature of XP is rather simple. You see, Windows has the ability to open more than one instance of an app. (This *is* from an ex-Windows user...ahhh!) So, when another user logs in, XP hides the other user's applications from view and launches another instance of Explorer.exe (the main shell). Quite simple, really .
[Edit: fixed typo]
[ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: Ibson ]
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Originally posted by EddieDesignsDotCom:
<STRONG>a) I can either browse thru 400 photographs again and find the one I am looking for or,
b) I can just look for 5 or 6 Blue Labelled photos and find the one I was looking for, fast!!
Labels, get it!? They are as needed for efficient file management as are Spring Loaded Folders.
Thank You.</STRONG>
c) you could have filed the blurred photos in a folder named blurred photos.
(Ducks to avoid slap on head)
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JLL
- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally posted by moki:
<STRONG>A few things I do know that are not under NDA:
-- Mac OS X 10.2 will be built with gcc 3.0.x...
-- A chance to the way messages are passed in Cocoa...
-- The first priority for this build is getting some new features done...</STRONG>
10-15% here are there will be welcome, but most users would barely even notice it.
Any news at all, any, on possible hardware acceleration for Aqua?
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Grizzled Veteran
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Can you tell us anything else? Does the GUI in 10.2 "turn on" more Unix features, like
Is it fast?
Are there any dock improvements?
Are the audio APIs finished yet?
Is the PPP hang bug fixed, or do we have to wait for 10.3?
ARe there any really, really cool new features that we should know about (and no, themes are too lame to count as a "feature", since Aqua already rules!).
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[FONT="book antiqua"]"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
- Thomas Jefferson, 1816.[/FONT]
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Dedicated MacNNer
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All I really want in 10.2 is a customisable Apple Menu. I just don't find Dock popups compare to the old Apple Menu. It would also be nice to get more speed and spring loaded folders.
I would also like to see GCC 3.1 being included with the dev tools for Mac OS X soon after the final GCC 3.1 is released.
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2001
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OSX is still quite sticky even on an 800Mhz plus machine. Remove the stickiness and make it silky fast.
I also want labelling and spring loaded folders. The latter is coming. The first is very very easy to implement. How come a third party hasn't tried?
Those are the three things I want. Not much to ask really. The majority of long time Mac users want these things and using design apps and organising folders would be a chore without them.
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Just thought I would stick my head into the labels debate for a second. I use labels in are lab to mark all the files in the our system folder. This allows me to do a custom search on the system folder when there is a problem with a computer. If anything was added, extensions etc, I know very quickly. This helps a lot. This could also be done with custom meta data. But something needs to be there.
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by tmikkelsen:
<STRONG>Just thought I would stick my head into the labels debate for a second. I use labels in are lab to mark all the files in the our system folder. This allows me to do a custom search on the system folder when there is a problem with a computer. If anything was added, extensions etc, I know very quickly. This helps a lot. This could also be done with custom meta data. But something needs to be there.</STRONG>
That sounds SO Mac OS 'classic'.
Not that it's a bad thing, but labels for that purpose are not longer needed.
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Ambrosia - el Presidente
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
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Originally posted by tmikkelsen:
<STRONG>Just thought I would stick my head into the labels debate for a second. I use labels in are lab to mark all the files in the our system folder. This allows me to do a custom search on the system folder when there is a problem with a computer. If anything was added, extensions etc, I know very quickly. This helps a lot. This could also be done with custom meta data. But something needs to be there.</STRONG>
under Mac OS X, your users won't be able to add anything to any of the "system folders" anyway -- permissions just won't allow it
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2000
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it was MUCH MORE than just a cheesy hack. GEEZ I keep saying over and over again on this forum = Spring Loaded Folders AND Labels are ESSENTIAL for efficient File Management.
I never used spring loaded folders or labels in all my years using Macs and I got along just fine without them so I wouldn't go so far as to say "essential". Maybe nice or a convience, but essential, I think not.
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Power Macintosh Dual G4
SGI Indigo2 6.5.21f
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Dedicated MacNNer
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Originally posted by michaelb:
<STRONG>10-15% here are there will be welcome, but most users would barely even notice it.</STRONG>
You're kidding, right? Everyone will be posting how much snappier it is!
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2001
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c) you could have filed the blurred photos in a folder named blurred photos.
That is a prime example of metadata being stored in the wrong place - the fact that the files are blurred should not affect the path of the files.
If you went into a library and all the books with blue covers were in a different room it wouldn't be a very good library.
I personally never used labels in the classic OS - but I can see the loss of them would interrupt people's workflow.
The meta-data system in X is terrible - I'm currently writing a prefpane that is an interface to Internet Config. Currently to edit these OS-wide preferencs you have to open Microsoft Internet Explorer! (ironic no?)
Anyway the most difficult part of making this prefpane hasn't been the coding - it's designing a simple and effective UI to describe how Mac OS X deals with the meta-data of incoming files from the internet.
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD, US
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Originally posted by tmikkelsen:
<STRONG>I use labels in are lab to mark all the files in the our system folder. </STRONG>
A unix-ish way to do this would be to create a file with the output of <font face = "courier">find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 -n 1 cksum | awk '{print $3, " ", $1}' | sort</font> and keep it safe. Then when you want to check for changes, run the command again and use the Unix diff utility to spot the changes. With labels, an attacker could replace the file and then change the label, but the cksum utility will detect changes in the file content.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: London
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Originally posted by timster:
<STRONG>I arrived late at this discussion, but I wanted to point out about the earlier discussion about being able to switch logins without having to log out.
I dont know for certain how XP does it, and I wanted to ask someone here who *knows*. . Please no guesses. either tell me from experience or because you're a microsoft engineer.
When a user switches logins without logging out. Does XP do:
1) saves state of the first login and then start up the second login.
or
2) concurrently run both user environments?
The first is far easier to implement, but it doesnt do kindly to things that require constant updates, such as leaving a IRC process running, or a file download. This however reduces the burden on the CPU and memory usage.
The second is probably more difficult to implement, and it increases the system resources. Basically turning it into a true multiuser operating system.
Anyone know?
-tim</STRONG>
It keeps the other users threads running in the background...
Second is easier coz all you have to do I "ignore GUI commands" the other option whould need alot of data to be store on disk etc... This is UNIX it is already Multi User setup all you have to do is add the GUI to the mix....
Cheers Edd
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Registered User
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Originally posted by petej:
<STRONG>Everyone will be posting how much snappier it is!</STRONG>
That will happen with every new update anyway
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hollywood, CA
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Originally posted by ARENA:
<STRONG>
That sounds SO Mac OS 'classic'.
Not that it's a bad thing, but labels for that purpose are not longer needed.</STRONG>
That's just not true. The students won't be able to change the System Library or the root library, but they will be able to add fonts etc to the Student user's library. I also use labels to differentiate between the raw system and files that third parties add. That is still relevant.
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Mac Elite
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They better also fix the issue where you don't have to click the desktop in order for files downloaded off the net to appear. This really bothers me!
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F = ma
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Senior User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
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Originally posted by milhous:
<STRONG>They better also fix the issue where you don't have to click the desktop in order for files downloaded off the net to appear. This really bothers me! </STRONG>
OS9 still does this alot of the time. If they let it have this problem since OS 8.5 I don't have much hope that they have fixed it for 10.2.
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Iguana: The other green meat.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally posted by ARENA:
<STRONG>
That sounds SO Mac OS 'classic'.
Not that it's a bad thing, but labels for that purpose are not longer needed.</STRONG>
Not so. I've had several installers put things in /System. For one, the DialPad installer puts some frameworks in /System/Library/Frameworks. Also, USB Overdrive and just about anything that installs a kernel extension puts it in /System/Library/Extensions because the general populace seems to think it's necessary for kernel extensions to be there, even though back in 10.1.0, iJect put a kernel extension in /Library/StartupItems and it seemed to work just fine. Also, I don't personally use themes, but for those that do, they will always put stuff in /System. As for permissions issues, most of these installers make you enter your admin password, so they can do whatever they want.
People refer to /System as being like the system file and never changing, etc. But if you really want the thing to be clean, you have to go in there yourself and clean crap out sometimes. Fortunately, Pacifist usually makes it possible to see just what installers have put in there, but not all installers are .pkg's that can be easily opened and looked at. With VISE installers, for example, you just have to hope that they gave you a decent installation log. If it were possible to go and apply a label to every file in /System, as root, after a clean installation, it would be much easier to verify that the folder is really identical to the way it was at the first installation.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally posted by MacGorilla:
<STRONG>
I never used spring loaded folders or labels in all my years using Macs and I got along just fine without them so I wouldn't go so far as to say "essential". ...not.</STRONG>
Well then I guess that no one else - no matter how valuable they found them - should be allowed their labels or slf's... ;-)
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Mac Pro 2.66, 2GB RAM | 4 x 250 GB HD's | MOTO 424e/2408-II
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
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All I really want in 10.2 is a customisable Apple Menu. I just don't find Dock popups compare to the old Apple Menu.
OS X doesn't need a customizable Apple menu because it has the dock.
Hint: you can fill a folder with aliases, drop it in the dock, and then right click to get the exact same functionality as an Apple menu. Just paste a custom icon on the folder so you can pick it out. In fact this is superior to OS 9's pathetic little Apple menu, because of two things:
1. I can put a folder in the dock with ONLY the aliases I want, and not all sorts of other garbage cluttering it up.
2. I can have as many Apple menus as I like. I actually have four: one for all Apps, one for file utilities, one for all other utilities, and then my documents folder which gives me instant access to every single document on both of my HDs. By having multiple Apple menus, the time spent drilling through hierarchies is minimized.
3. The dock is cooler than the Apple menu. Admit it, the Apple menu was always a bit of a hack. The dock is a beautiful design in comparison.
As for you people who are whining about labels, you just need to adapt to a new workflow method. Labels are really a cumbersome hack for the disorganized users. If you need to sort your files, then use folders, that's why they are included in the OS!
hell even if OS X had lables then you'd be complaining about there not being enough colors or some stupid thing like that. Get a life and quit whining about labels already!
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[FONT="book antiqua"]"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
- Thomas Jefferson, 1816.[/FONT]
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>
indeed I think that is the best feature of XP. Would be kick ass (and fairly painless to do) for OS X.</STRONG>
There was a cool application in the NeXTstep/OPENSTEP world that could launch an application as a different user (most commonly as the "root" superuser to perform some sysadmin work) called OpenSesame. I believe it came from within NeXT, so perhaps it can be ported forward...?
What I really want is to combine the multiple virtual desktops with this functionality so I can have a "root" desktop as well as multiple user desktops.
-Nathan
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Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Woodridge, IL
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Originally posted by someone_else:
<STRONG>
So, adding the ability to "switch users" is not trivial, and personally, I don't think we'll ever see the ability in OSX (at least not anytime in the next couple of years).
[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: someone_else ]</STRONG>
Oh, I agree that it's not trivial - your points about the window-server are very good. However, I view problems like this the same as problems with non-thread-safe code. It's been shown in many areas of computer science that having code that you can only run a single instance of (for *whatever* reason) gets you into trouble. Non thread-safe code made it hard for programs to work in multitasking and multiprocessing environments, and non-reentrant code is one of the largest problems Carbon had to face to move the toolbox to OS X. All because code was structured in some way, that however convenient and slick to the engineer, had the side effects of not playing nice. After all, the underlying UNIX base supports multiple users logged in as a fundamental idea - that idea just needs to be extended to the GUI.
So, I agree it's a lot of work, but work that is worthwhile (and hell, if Windows can pull it off, dammit, Apple certainly can). For instance, if such problems were fixed, then implementing a "terminal server" version of OS X would be relatively simple.
And as I said before, it won't happen in 10.2 (unless someone up there really likes me), but it can't hurt to send feedback. 10.2 better clean up all of the other niggling interface issues, though - the fact that so many of these issues are small, completely reproducable, and never fixed gives the OS a certain tarnish. Wouldn't it be great if when 10.2 hit we could all come in here posting "Hey! 10.2 fixed that bug xxx I had been dealing with forever! Great!"? I'd give up new features just to get this myriad of small problems fixed, because after all, that's why I use a Mac - the polish and elegance of the system.
Okay, let me back down off this rickety soapbox...
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Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Woodridge, IL
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Originally posted by OverclockedHomoSapien:
<STRONG>Here's what I'd like to see in OS X.2:
1. Full compatibility with windows networks. I should be able to plug into a windows network, open up the network browser in OS X, and have both macs and wintels appear seamlessly together. This functionality could be Apple's secret weapon for invading Windows markets.
</STRONG>
Agreed. Sharity can pretty much do this; no reason OS X can't have functionality like that. And from personal experience, it would do a lot to dislodge entrenched Windows users.
<STRONG>
2. Full feature parity with OS 9. Software base station, SL folders, and a few other little touches that make a difference.
</STRONG>
Well, full parity is a pretty tall order. I think basic hardware support is at least called for (including things like USB printer sharing, iSub volume, and Software Base Station); things that you need to use your hardware in at least a basic way.
<STRONG>
3. Full GUI control of OS X's firewall. This is a great feature, quite amazing to come standard really, in a time when people are freaked about security. Why Apple hasn't already done this is a mystery to me.
</STRONG>
This would be good, but I don't place it at as high a priority. It would be a great selling point.
<STRONG>
4. Optimized speed, of course.
</STRONG>
Snappier!
<STRONG>
5. Even more stability. If OS X is truly crash proof, then the buzz will spread through IT depts.
</STRONG>
Well, it's already "stable". Avoiding deadlocks would be good, and the spinning beachball of death. However, that's going to be an application issue on many fronts - much more difficult.
<STRONG>
6. Fix the damn finder! I'm am so sick of getting that LSD cursor everytime I attempt to manipulate moderately large #s of files, even with ~100 files in list view, the OS comes to it's knees. Must be something about the way Unix is handling the filesystem, but it must be fixed.
</STRONG>
Nope, not UNIX. As I posted above, try mv. I can move several hundred files instantaneously using mv, while the Finder can take full minutes when manipulating so many. Seems to be exacerbated by list view, but it's definitely a Finder issue.
<STRONG>
7. Fix PPP. Modem users are still back in 1994 on OS X. The internet is here now, Apple, wake up!
</STRONG>
Looks like they did, based on other threads.
<STRONG>
8. After the finder is fixed, Apple should thread it better. There are too many instances where the finder is consumed by a simple task (ie, moving a file) for 15-25 seconds. That's not right.
</STRONG>
Amen.
<STRONG>
9. Expand the dock's functionality and customizability. Allow for multiple docks, with user defined functions, so one could be for minimized windows, one for apps, etc. The dock has so much potential, I think it's awesome now but it could be even better.
</STRONG>
Again, I think it's a matter of priorities. I'd love to see this too (preferences are almost *never* a bad thing), but I'd have to mark a feature like this as "later". Nothing is necessarily broken or in dire need of fixing; it's just a really great feature.
As we've seen, too much is in dire need of fixing!
<STRONG>
I'm optimistic. OS X can only get better and Apple is on fire now.</STRONG>
Yup, it is great to finally use OS X full time and launch classic maybe once every couple weeks (for me, because I don't trust the OS X beta Palm Desktop).
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Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Woodridge, IL
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Here's another idea I came up with. We currently have the ability to plug in new file systems, networking protocols, etc. How about a special handler for file types, and accessing any internal metadata? For instance, if I had a file handler for ".mp3", then I'd be able to see its ID3 tags in the "Show Info" window. Or if I had a JPEG handler, I could see the embedded comment tags.
However, the real charm is this - allow list view to tap into these. So if I want a list view showing MP3 ID3 tags, I don't need to change to a BeOS style file system, I just need to use that file handler to pull the data I need, and voila! More choices for data to show.
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Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Woodridge, IL
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Originally posted by mattstoton:
<STRONG>I *know* 10.2 will have themes. Ok, I don't really know, but its pretty obvious it will. </STRONG>
Uh-huh. Sure. What's the definitive evidence, other than the fact that a theme infrastructure exists? That's been the case since OS 8.5, and we've been hacking away piecemeal at it ever since.
If we see real theme support from Apple on OS X, I'll eat my shoes.
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Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Woodridge, IL
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Originally posted by EddieDesignsDotCom:
<STRONG>
it was MUCH MORE than just a cheesy hack. GEEZ I keep saying over and over again on this forum = Spring Loaded Folders AND Labels are ESSENTIAL for efficient File Management.
<snip>
Labels, get it!? They are as needed for efficient file management as are Spring Loaded Folders.
Thank You.</STRONG>
But they *are* a cheesy hack, from a programmatic view. Think, you can only have 8 labels and a few colors (not all colors worked that well, although you could assign them). I don't know about you, but for the variety of files I have, I need a lot more than 8 labels to be useful. Labels (correct me if I'm wrong) simply were a hacked feature that took advantage of three bits of space that happened to be available in the file system (otherwise, why only eight labels?). I want a real, powerful labels. Same idea, but much expanded functionality.
Looks like another post from me about something I want but don't expect to see anytime soon...
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Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Woodridge, IL
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Originally posted by timster:
<STRONG>When a user switches logins without logging out. Does XP do:
1) saves state of the first login and then start up the second login.
or
2) concurrently run both user environments?
</STRONG>
It runs both of them at the same time. If I switch users, all of my programs keep chugging along. Some people are concerned about the effects on performance, but I think we've all seen just how many programs can be run without significantly impacting OS X's speed (I've done upwards of 100 and still had OS X *usable*, although not snappy).
Windows XP is in many basic ways just as advanced as UNIX (leaving out the whole issue of the huge base of UNIX software, utilities, cross-platform, etc). It supports protected memory, multiuser login, pre-emptive multitasking, etc, really just as well as UNIX. However, it does tend to have a lot more bugs, more security glitches, and a lot more "Microsoft-ish" practices (like forcing programs and services down your throat). But from a basic perspective, yes, WinXP is finally a "real" OS for them, just like OS X is a "real" OS for us.
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Qu�bec, Canada
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Well, it is impossible (in Mac OS X 10.1 at least) for a GUI application to be run as a different user than the one currently logged. This is what I tested:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1"face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial">code:</font><HR><pre><font size=1 face=courier>[localhost:~] michelf% login
login: lof
Password:
Welcome to Darwin!
[localhost:~] lof% open /Applications/TextEdit.app
kCGErrorIllegalArgument : initCGDisplayState: cannot map display interlocks.
kCGErrorIllegalArgument : CGSNewConnection cannot get connection port
kCGErrorIllegalArgument : CGSNewConnection cannot get connection port
kCGErrorInvalidConnection : CGSGetEventPort: Invalid connection
[localhost:~] lof%
</font>[/code]
I opened Terminal, then login as a different user and try the open command to launch TextEdit. As you can see, TextEdit cannot get a connection to the window server.
Open Sesame was ported to Mac OS X (at least the beta) since I remember having tried it, but could only launch apps as root.
What I would really like in 10.2 is faster responsiveness for my colorful iBook. A lot better would be hardware accelerated video for my iBook, but well, that won't happen anyway. Let's keep hopes realistic so we can be happy when it ships.
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Status:
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Originally posted by OverclockedHomoSapien:
<STRONG>
OS X doesn't need a customizable Apple menu because it has the dock.
Hint: you can fill a folder with aliases, drop it in the dock, and then right click to get the exact same functionality as an Apple menu. Just paste a custom icon on the folder so you can pick it out. In fact this is superior to OS 9's pathetic little Apple menu, because of two things:
1. I can put a folder in the dock with ONLY the aliases I want, and not all sorts of other garbage cluttering it up.
2. I can have as many Apple menus as I like. I actually have four: one for all Apps, one for file utilities, one for all other utilities, and then my documents folder which gives me instant access to every single document on both of my HDs. By having multiple Apple menus, the time spent drilling through hierarchies is minimized.</STRONG>
Yeah, isn't it great that you are always chasing these moving targets in the Dock? It takes far longer to look where your "docked" folders are and right-click them than it does to blindly hit the Apple Menu with your mouse pointer. Also the Apple Menu is at the top left of the screen so you don't even have to aim very well. I think that Fitts' law sort of fits here to explain this.
<STRONG>
3. The dock is cooler than the Apple menu. Admit it, the Apple menu was always a bit of a hack. The dock is a beautiful design in comparison.
</STRONG>
The Dock is far from beautiful! It is in fact one of the least consistent multifaced interface features ever made. What is it? An app switcher? A launcher? A minimize palette? A file browser? The Dock popup menus are easily the most hacked on UI features that I have ever seen on the Mac.
Even though I don't exactly like the Dock I am willing to put up with it as long as it is pinable and I get my Apple menu back.
<STRONG>
As for you people who are whining about labels, you just need to adapt to a new workflow method. Labels are really a cumbersome hack for the disorganized users. If you need to sort your files, then use folders, that's why they are included in the OS!
hell even if OS X had lables then you'd be complaining about there not being enough colors or some stupid thing like that. Get a life and quit whining about labels already!</STRONG>
While I have never found a use for labels I can see that others have and rely on them in every day activities. I therefore think that it would be a good idea for Apple to bring them back. Maybe they could even allow for unlimited numbers and colors of labels.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Retired
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If we see real theme support from Apple on OS X, I'll eat my shoes.
oh can I watch???
But you are correct, I think, that there will be no official theme support, with Apple being so anti-theme right now.
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Power Macintosh Dual G4
SGI Indigo2 6.5.21f
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status:
Offline
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Originally posted by diamondsw:
<STRONG>Here's another idea I came up with. We currently have the ability to plug in new file systems, networking protocols, etc. How about a special handler for file types, and accessing any internal metadata? For instance, if I had a file handler for ".mp3", then I'd be able to see its ID3 tags in the "Show Info" window. Or if I had a JPEG handler, I could see the embedded comment tags.
However, the real charm is this - allow list view to tap into these. So if I want a list view showing MP3 ID3 tags, I don't need to change to a BeOS style file system, I just need to use that file handler to pull the data I need, and voila! More choices for data to show.</STRONG>
This already exists, in some kind of capacity. I know it's possible to create new Inspector panels, and even plug-ins for the Finder so that it can do document previews. AppleWorks does this, and Apple has mentioned the capability once or twice.
Only problem is, Apple never documented this one, so I don't think anybody knows how to do it. Panic might know about custom Inspector panels (the Audion application itself seems to have one), but I don't know of anyone outside Apple who's done custom Finder previews yet.
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You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Hollywood, CA
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Originally posted by MacGorilla:
<STRONG>But you are correct, I think, that there will be no official theme support, with Apple being so anti-theme right now.</STRONG>
Nobody can predict of what will happen next at apple... I mean did ANYONE of you expected Apple to release iPod? None.
I'm *SO* sure that Apple will eventually add theme support but "when" is the question.
Don't forget that Apple is taking it easy with themes right now. There are lot of Aqua clone and Apple didn't complain now. Probably they're making all-new Aqua 2? heh
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Occasionally Useful
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Liverpool, UK
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jeez, i wish you'd all quit crying about freakin' themes!
frankly, i'd rather Apple concentrated on makes things run more smoothly, have less hitches, perform quicker and just generally be the best OS out there
themes do NOT have anything to do with the things i've mentioned above, so why are you all being like spoilt children over them? "waaaaah, i want my themes!"
all of you, answer this honestly, now:
what would you rather have?
a. a buggy OS, that runs too slow and has too many glitches to name, but different corners on your windows, with a different shade on the titlebar?
or
b. a kick-ass OS that's had lots of time spent on it, fixing the important things, like functionality, speed and stability?
i know which one my money's on.
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"Have sharp knives. Be creative. Cook to music" ~ maxelson
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Québec, Canada
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To actually make a program run as an other user, in the terminal :
sudo open /Path/To/Application
Why it won't work with other users? Permissions!
You have the same problem on other Unices with X-Windows..
It's there, what's missing is "hide all and give priorities to 'user xxx'".
Darwin programmers are working on it..
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