[Cap'n Tightpants]

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...3/#post4309776

A 10 point infraction? That was a joke, and I feel a rather obvious one, at that. Dakar knows it (note the "lulz"), I imagine most people know it, and whoever reported it needs to relax. Yeah, I know some people here just go after other people for almost anything, but this is nuts.

[The Final Dakar]

I'll back him up. I took me a a few moments to realize he was referencing the story of the woman who had her name changed to asshole by customer service, but once I did, no offence was taken.

I think that either the Captain should be off the "hook," or subego should get a 10000-point infraction for all the times he said S***.

[turtle777]

The hampstor can not haz humor.

-t

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I'll back him up. I took me a a few moments to realize he was referencing the story of the woman who had her name changed to asshole by customer service, but once I did, no offence was taken.

Definitely none was intended, the story was even posted to that very thread just a few days before, by an admin.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

The hampstor can not haz humor.

-t

Apparently not.

[The Final Dakar]

I thought it was heavy handed ball-busting at first. Only for a split-second was I like, "What?!"

[subego]

Originally Posted by And.reg 

I think that either the Captain should be off the "hook," or subego should get a 10000-point infraction for all the times he said S***.

Hey, man... I give a shit.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

The hampstor can not haz humor.

German hampstors are born without a sense of humor.

@Captain Tightpants
I think your joke was a little too clever and too aggressive for your own good.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

German hampstors are born without a sense of humor.

@Captain Tightpants
I think your joke was a little too clever and too aggressive for your own good.

What? There was no offense taken or meant, so there was no insult or "aggression". I have no idea what you're talking about.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I think your joke was a little too clever and too aggressive for your own good.

Is this meant as an official statement validating the infraction?

[besson3c]

Tightpants: here is a website which might help do something about these erroneous infraction points:

http://change.org

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Tightpants: here is a website which might help do something about these erroneous infraction points:

http://change.org

How thoughtful, here's one for you: moveon.org

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

How thoughtful, here's one for you: MoveOn.Org | Democracy In Action

Thank you, I'll keep this site in mind if I have MacNN infraction points I want to be rid of. I haven't been bothered so far about being assigned infraction points, but maybe that might change some day...

I'm sure they will also appreciate our promoting their site.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by subego 

Is this meant as an official statement validating the infraction?

What do you mean, are you asking whether I have issued an infraction? Yes, I have.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

What? There was no offense taken or meant, so there was no insult or "aggression". I have no idea what you're talking about.

In my opinion, my comments here and my message accompanying the infraction are quite clear.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

In my opinion, my comments here and my message accompanying the infraction are quite clear.

My opinion, as the person it was directed towards, on the matter has no bearing?

I'm reminded of when Osiris told me "you use your mouth prettier than a twenty dollar whore" and he got an infraction (or warning) for an obvious Blazing Saddles reference.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

My opinion, as the person it was directed towards, on the matter has no bearing?

I'm reminded of when Osiris told me "you use your mouth prettier than a twenty dollar whore" and he got an infraction (or warning) for an obvious Blazing Saddles reference.

Of course, it has a bearing, I didn't get the joke, and I am not sure whether infractions can be undone. What I meant earlier is that other people could have understood the comment in the same way as I have initially (even though I was aware of Comcast's customer naming shenanigans). If Captain Tightpants had inserted a link in the post, it'd have been easier to understand. Moreover, instead of waiting for my reply (he pmed me about it and I was busy yesterday with work), he posted here. Which is fine, but takes away the possibility to iron things out.

In short, if I had understood his joke right away, I probably would have left a comment in the thread for clarification. So much gets lost when you go from a personal face-to-face interaction to a text-only-based medium. But even after Captain Tightpants's explanation I would have suggested to him to choose his words more carefully (e. g. by inserting a clear reference by means of a link). And I wouldn't have issued an infraction. I just don't want that certain attitudes spill over from the PL to the Lounge, and to ensure that I'd like to err on the side of caution. I have nothing against swearing and 4-letter words, I just want that people interact on the basis of mutual respect.

PS About your example, I don't remember the case (although I don't think I was the one who issued the infraction/warning), but I wouldn't have caught the reference either. What is obvious to some is obscure to others.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I am not sure whether infractions can be undone

I refuse to believe that we don't have the technology to rescind points. Next you'll tell me bans can't be undone.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

PS About your example, I don't remember the case (although I don't think I was the one who issued the infraction/warning), but I wouldn't have caught the reference either. What is obvious to some is obscure to others.

I realize that, but in any sane setting there's room for clarification.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

...I am not sure whether infractions can be undone.

Unless something has changed, they can be.

Had one reversed in a similar situation once it was clarified there was no ill intent on my part, and the "target" didn't interpret the comment as an attack.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I refuse to believe that we don't have the technology to rescind points. Next you'll tell me bans can't be undone.

There is no need to be unnecessarily hostile, all I said was that I wasn't sure whether it can be done, not that it's not possible nor that I am unwilling to do it if Captain Tightpants makes such a request.

Originally Posted by subego 

Unless something has changed, they can be.

That's good to know. I've never had that situation come up, so I'll have a look how one goes about doing that. Very often some powers are reserved for admins rather than mods.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

There is no need to be unnecessarily hostile, all I said was that I wasn't sure whether it can be done,

Sorry oreo, but it's like a cop telling me he doesn't know if he can drop charges. Maybe he can't but the absurdity that he believes such a system could exist, coupled with the ignorance of his own job elicits an indignant response.

In short, this is turning into one of our periodic "whats up with the way this place is run?" threads. If an entire day is too short to retract the infraction, one would think a fraction of that 24 hours might have spent learning whether it was even possible.

[besson3c]

Why is this an issue? It has been said that many infraction points need to be accumulated before there is a ban, they are reset after a while, and in this case I'm sure Tightpants' ban would be overridden anyway if it pushed him above a threshold.

This is like fixating on not getting a 10 cent grocery coupon for Shake 'N Bake.

Don't make me leave this thread out of sheer boredom, because I will. You have been warned.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

There is no need to be unnecessarily hostile, all I said was that I wasn't sure whether it can be done, not that it's not possible nor that I am unwilling to do it if Captain Tightpants makes such a request.

I did send a PM yesterday, it may have been missed.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Why is this an issue?

Because I don't know the procedure for bans, if they're automatically assigned or you reach a certain threshold, or if they're manually handed out. 10 pts (which I believe is quite a lot) seems to be an area where an auto-ban could have kicked in, or an admin would see it and assign a ban. I simply didn't know, so I posted in the thread where it happened and in here, just in case I couldn't post or PM later (since I've never been banned I don't know what a person can or can't do after one has been levied) explaining the situation. Admittedly, I was in a "WTF?" frame of mind, because it was something that wasn't even remotely expected.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

and in this case I'm sure Tightpants' ban would be overridden anyway if it pushed him above a threshold.

Sure. Unless it's one of those mods that claims "ban evasion" when sent a personal message asking about the ban / infraction, and then extends the ban to an even longer time.

Not that it has ever happened to me. Oh, wait, it has.

-t

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

I did send a PM yesterday, it may have been missed.

I did not miss your pm. But before I had the chance to reply, you started this thread and I assumed this is how you wanted to communicate. I addressed you personally in my first reply to this thread, and I thought this served the same purpose as a reply to your pm. I have no problem reversing my decision in this case, no offense was taken and I misinterpreted what you have said. You can chalk it up to my lack of humor if you wish That's why I wrote that your joke was too clever for your own good. Maybe you can be a little easier on me next time.

You have to understand that we are volunteers who have jobs, so the response time may be higher a few hours. I will look into the procedure how to remove these 10 points from your account over the weekend. For now, the infraction points have no effect on you (unless you rack up a lot more infractions). Peace?

JFYI: We do have an autoban feature, but this rarely gets tripped. We usually ban by hand after discussing the issue amongst the staff. The two big exceptions are spammers, ban evaders and sock puppeteers (the hidden ones, at least).

@The Final Dakar
I think you're taking what we do here at MacNN a tad too seriously.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Sorry oreo, but it's like a cop telling me he doesn't know if he can drop charges. Maybe he can't but the absurdity that he believes such a system could exist, coupled with the ignorance of his own job elicits an indignant response.

In short, this is turning into one of our periodic "whats up with the way this place is run?" threads. If an entire day is too short to retract the infraction, one would think a fraction of that 24 hours might have spent learning whether it was even possible.

"Drop that joke and leggo the mouse, and nobody gets hurt."

[subego]

@Oreo

The "too clever" comment read to me as "shut up and take your points, peon". I think that's where the hostility is coming from.

I was close to having a meltdown. I wrote (and rejected) five posts before I felt I could constructively add to the discussion.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by subego 

The "too clever" comment read to me as "shut up and take your points, peon". I think that's where the hostility is coming from.

It wasn't meant as shut up and put up, I meant it in the simplest way: if you make a joke hidden as an insult which is too hard to get, people may take it as an insult. I certainly did at the time. The deciding factor for me to reverse my decision was that the poster the comment was aimed at, Dakar, was not offended. The purpose of my post here was to tell Shaddim to mark his jokes more clearly (a link to one of the stories would have sufficed).

[reader50]

Per Oreo, the infraction is deleted.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Because I don't know the procedure for bans, if they're automatically assigned or you reach a certain threshold, or if they're manually handed out. 10 pts (which I believe is quite a lot) seems to be an area where an auto-ban could have kicked in, or an admin would see it and assign a ban.

Most Infraction points are active for 10 days, then expire. The exception is a PL rule violation, which only lasts 5 days - politics is fleeting. If you hit 20 active points, the board issues a 7-day temp ban, with countdown clock. Auto-bans are *always* temp bans. Real bans are reserved for human decisions.

No admin checks infraction totals to hand out bans. If you are on ban, you get an error page, which gives the expiration time. However, banned spammers receive a special error page, which no one has managed to translate yet.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Sure. Unless it's one of those mods that claims "ban evasion" when sent a personal message asking about the ban / infraction, and then extends the ban to an even longer time.

Not that it has ever happened to me. Oh, wait, it has.

turtle, do you still remember the details on this? PM them to me if you do, I'll look into it.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

It wasn't meant as shut up and put up, I meant it in the simplest way: if you make a joke hidden as an insult which is too hard to get, people may take it as an insult. I certainly did at the time. The deciding factor for me to reverse my decision was that the poster the comment was aimed at, Dakar, was not offended. The purpose of my post here was to tell Shaddim to mark his jokes more clearly (a link to one of the stories would have sufficed).

I get that now.

It was unclear at that point you had reversed your decision.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I did not miss your pm. But before I had the chance to reply, you started this thread and I assumed this is how you wanted to communicate. I addressed you personally in my first reply to this thread, and I thought this served the same purpose as a reply to your pm. I have no problem reversing my decision in this case, no offense was taken and I misinterpreted what you have said. You can chalk it up to my lack of humor if you wish That's why I wrote that your joke was too clever for your own good. Maybe you can be a little easier on me next time.

You have to understand that we are volunteers who have jobs, so the response time may be higher a few hours. I will look into the procedure how to remove these 10 points from your account over the weekend. For now, the infraction points have no effect on you (unless you rack up a lot more infractions). Peace?

JFYI: We do have an autoban feature, but this rarely gets tripped. We usually ban by hand after discussing the issue amongst the staff. The two big exceptions are spammers, ban evaders and sock puppeteers (the hidden ones, at least).

I wasn't trying to be hard on anyone, I didn't even mention the name of the mod who infracted me, I was simply wanted to take care of the misunderstanding as expeditiously as possible since I didn't know if I was going to be around much longer to plead my case. Like subego, I didn't quite get what your meaning was regarding being "too clever" and wrote a couple replies before settling for something more benign, it seemed odd too, but ultimately felt that was a misunderstanding as well.

Anyhow, thanks to staff for the infraction removal, I'll attempt to be less cunning in the future.

[subego]

Yeah...

It was impossible to tell whether the statement was:

"I'm penalizing you for being too clever"

Or

"Your cleverness caused an accidental penalty"


One is "no harm, no foul", the other is a Napoleon complex.

[subego]

To put it another way, your post was a little too clever, and the users accidentally infracted you for it.

Sorry about that (honestly... no snark intended).