[TheSpaz]

Will Apple fix the scroll bars, title bar widgets, and progress bars to match the rest of the OS in this next major update known as Tiger? What are your thoughts?

[bbxstudio]

I just hope they fix the way progress bars work - why include a multiframe sequence if you're just going to scroll the first frame? Doubtful nagging theme issues will get fixed, tho' - I imagine many redundant resources will live on for many more versions.

[rhythmicmoose]

In the past, we've always seen a revision of Aqua somewhere in the development cycle. Aside from the new menubar and that new window type, we haven't seen any of that yet. I'm guessing 10.4 will bring a significant revision by the time it's done, if not simply because the multiple generations of interface elements are starting to clash, then at least to match the new interface that'll come with Longhorn.

[jwill]

i never really minded the progress bars and stuff too much..it would be nice to update them, though, but i don't really care.

i liked that unified toolbar thing in tiger with the aqua window titlebarless...and the menubar is pretty nice too

[Caesar2099]

I've reverted to aqua recently (because shapeshifter was f***ing up everything) and the outdated menubar widgets are annoying but bearable. I don't think they really need to go through the trouble of updating everything, although it would be nice.

[aristotles]

I frankly don't care too much. I'm more interested in greater performance of the OS and Safari and the added functionality.

[Sage]

What really bugs me about Tiger is that they're using those Plastic buttons in the "unified-titlebar" apps… not that I have a problem with Plastic buttons (BTW, "Plastic" means the 120 degree lighting), but they have a very thick outline/bevel that only looks good on metal apps, since it blends in with the gray metal. However, it looks horrible on light backgrounds. I hope they clean that up a bit by the time Tiger comes out.

I've sort of lost hope regarding the progress bars/scrollbars/titlebar widgets. In particular, they've had several years to fix the progress bars, but haven't bothered. Anyway, we always have Max to save the day.

Unfortunately, I think Apple's so scattered when it comes to theme resources that I think there's no hope until post-OS X (whatever that wonderful operating system may be). Just look at app skins – If Apple were smart, they would've made the glyphs separate from the actual buttons, so that you'd have one resource for the buttons (or three, if you separate Aqua Gel from Plastic and Brushed Metal), making it infinitely easier to modify them system-wide.

How come Safari gets rollovers in its Bookmarks bar, but few other Apple apps have rollovers in them? How come Apple doesn't use a standard Rectangle and Rounded text field for the Address Bar and Google Search Field, respectively? (I know the answer to that – they needed the progress bar within the text field – but they should've found a better way to do it). Why is iTunes' background still ****ing hard-coded? How come there isn't a "Sidebar" resource, so that if you change the Finder's sidebar, then iTunes' will also change? Why does iTunes get its own checkboxes, its own selection color, its own focus ring, its own column headers, even its own sliders (in the Equalizer)? Why aren't the Trash Can and Folder icons in Mail.app just scaled-down versions of the ones used in the Finder? (So that if you change the icons, they'll match in Mail). Why does Mail get its own expand arrow in Threaded view? Why doesn't Apple make the little circle-with-x button a system-wide resource, instead of stashed away in every app? Why hasn't etched text been made system-wide? (I'm specifically referring to Font Book.) Why doesn't Apple make a rounded-Plastic button resource for iTunes, QuickTime, and iMove to share? What about all those Action buttons floating all over the place?

There are plenty of issues, and like I said, it's pretty much hopeless, unless Apple undergoes a major re-cleaning effort�_– Which, after seeing Tiger, I highly doubt, because it'll be even messier (just look at the Finder's new searching… it has that silly thing that looks like Safari Bookmarks Bar, which also has rollovers and etched text, and a blue background… oh, and Spotlight is going to require a thousand of its own resources for the blue plastic, large text field, drop-shadowed text, the row headers in the expanded window, etc.).

Poo. Granted, 99.9% of Mac users don't give a rat's ass, but it's still frustrating from a themeing point of view (not that I've ever created a theme, but I've dabbled with TP enough and I've been here long enough to know all the stupid obstacles).

[MacMan4000]

Originally posted by Sage:
[removed really long post]

Well put.

[NetworkShadow]

The Apple gui designers need to read this forum.

[Stradlater]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

Feedback Area: Interface/Aqua

[TheSpaz]

Sweet... I just posted a very nice and polite letter on that page to Apple. I really hope they do something. I think we all need to remind Apple about these little flaws... If enough people send in stuff like this... they won't ignore it. For example: In previous versions of iTunes you couldn't double click on the iTunes music store to browse in a seperate window. I like my iTunes window pretty small and it was really hard to browse the music store with scroll bars everywhere and I said something to Apple. Sure enough the VERY NEXT version of iTunes let you open the Store in a new BIG browser window leaving your iTunes playlist window untouched. GO APPLE!

[CreepingDeth]

I know what you're talking about, but what's the big deal about the progress bar? I haven't really looked at regular Aqua in a couple months, so someone refresh my memory.

At least Tiger, and Panther for that matter, aren't looking like this.



I mean, at least we've made some progress stylistically.
Look at those blindgly dark shadows. The pin stripes, the widgets raised 3 feet of the titlebar. It his this pudgy, stuffy look that you all oooh and ahh'ed in 2000. Now 10.1 looks like a complete Carbon app in terms of ugliness.
Things will get better. Let's hope they do unify some of those little resource problems that keeps me from making a theme. (Actually, I've thought about it, but I don't think I'm that good at it'll take too long) Until the, bitch at Apple and tell them to get their collective asses in gear.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
At least Tiger, and Panther for that matter, aren't looking like this.

http://home.tiscalinet.de/erich/grafiken/aquadesk.jpg

At least Jaguar doesn't have the brushed metal finder look.

I doubt Apple will fix the GUI. Call me a pessimist. Even if they did though, I'd still rather use Siro or EXEC anyday!

[smithz4096]

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
Will Apple fix the scroll bars, title bar widgets, and progress bars to match the rest of the OS in this next major update known as Tiger? What are your thoughts?

My #1 wish for Tiger/etc. :

A mature systemwide Font-Prefpanel to choose custom Fonts for Menus, Listviews, Desktop, etc.
Nearly all theming needs can be done via SS or similar, but the font section is still mediocre compared to other OS.

[tomppu]

So this is where all my precious disk space is wasted. Those tiny 4K tiff-files inside every app's Contents-folder. Damn you Apple!
No. Really, this is ridicilous. Why can't we have one resource to load those graphics from, OS X is already bloated in terms of size and it's getting worse.

t�mppu

[rhythmicmoose]

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
At least Tiger, and Panther for that matter, aren't looking like this.

At least that look was consistent.

[Ji Eun]

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
At least Tiger, and Panther for that matter, aren't looking like this.

to each his own. i still think the puma / jaguar look is freakin' awesome... and you can't disagree with the moose about the consistency bit.

[Tick]

Isn't this post a tad early? The os doesn't come out until NEXT YEAR. Posting about it now is pointless.

[Tick]

Originally posted by tomppu:
So this is where all my precious disk space is wasted. Those tiny 4K tiff-files inside every app's Contents-folder. Damn you Apple!
No. Really, this is ridicilous. Why can't we have one resource to load those graphics from, OS X is already bloated in terms of size and it's getting worse.

t�mppu

Ever use windows? Remember dll hell? Where all apps on the os shared 1 thing? And then it was modified by other apps in order to fit their needs? And it broke other apps?


You really want that hell?

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by Tick:
Isn't this post a tad early? The os doesn't come out until NEXT YEAR. Posting about it now is pointless.

We don't know when next year exactly... And next year is only 2 months away.

[MacMan4000]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
We don't know when next year exactly... And next year is only 2 months away.

Amazon knows when... but I missed it, Apple made them take the date down.

[Tick]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
We don't know when next year exactly... And next year is only 2 months away.

It's still software that is in prerelease. That meaning that only 2 groups of people outside of Apple actually should have it:


1) People under nda who have it via proper channels who would never post here, unless they wanted to violate said nda.

2) People stealing it.



Out of these people, only group 1 would have the most current software. Group 2 may have it days/weeks/months afterwards. Also, having said that, group 1 also probably could compare earlier and later releases better than group 2.

That said, you are either trusting people breaking nda here, or people who steal. Either way, apple still has at least 2 months to resolve issues. If not 6. And that's my point. How long does it take to make a theme, a month? What if you were paid to do it full time and loved your job? You'd work on it that much harder.


But what if some punk on some forum board started talking smack about your creation before it was ready?! Wouldn't that at least make you a tiny bit angry? So that's why this whole thread is pointless. The only thing it serves is to make people mad, let people who steal things/don't follow legal contracts discuss things, and let those who have only seen screen shots/themes to guess at how it is right now.


*sigh*

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Tick:
Isn't this post a tad early? The os doesn't come out until NEXT YEAR. Posting about it now is pointless.

No, it's not. Anyone with Panther right now can send Apple feedback about the inconsistencies and hope that they will be addressed in Tiger.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Tick:
Either way, apple still has at least 2 months to resolve issues. If not 6. And that's my point. How long does it take to make a theme, a month? What if you were paid to do it full time and loved your job? You'd work on it that much harder.

If it's not brought to their attention now, who's to say they'll address it?

Originally posted by Tick:
But what if some punk on some forum board started talking smack about your creation before it was ready?! Wouldn't that at least make you a tiny bit angry? So that's why this whole thread is pointless. The only thing it serves is to make people mad, let people who steal things/don't follow legal contracts discuss things, and let those who have only seen screen shots/themes to guess at how it is right now.

*sigh*

*sigh*, indeed.

I don't think people are "talking smack" here so much as pointing out inconsistencies that _still haven't been addressed_. The official themers didn't make everything consistent for 10.3, why should you assume that they'll make everything consistent for 10.4? This thread is hardly pointless; but your apologetic and defensive moaning is.

Right now, all we can assume is that it might not be addressed for Tiger, so we need to send feedback.

[Tick]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
If it's not brought to their attention now, who's to say they'll address it?

*sigh*, indeed.

I don't think people are "talking smack" here so much as pointing out inconsistencies that _still haven't been addressed_. The official themers didn't make everything consistent for 10.3, why should you assume that they'll make everything consistent for 10.4? This thread is hardly pointless; but your apologetic and defensive moaning is.

Sorry if I chose a word that upset you. Punk

Originally posted by Stradlater:

Right now, all we can assume is that it might not be addressed for Tiger, so we need to send feedback.

Actually, that's not the place you would want to send people to for a bug.

[Sembazuru]

Originally posted by Sage:
Why is iTunes' background still ****ing hard-coded? How come there isn't a "Sidebar" resource, so that if you change the Finder's sidebar, then iTunes' will also change? Why does iTunes get its own checkboxes, its own selection color, its own focus ring, its own column headers, even its own sliders (in the Equalizer)?

The more Mac-native elements that Apple includes, the harder it will be to manage the PC version. Also, iTunes started out as an OS 9 app, so there's (unfortunately) a lot of cruftiness in the interface. Personally, I think the visualizer needs a major refresh.

[mugget]

freakin 'ell!

yes, Tiger is still in Beta, so of course it will have changes!!

what's the point of talking about a Beta when you know for sure that it's going to be drastically different from the final release version?

but good idea to send Apple some feedback. let them know how someone who shouldn't even have a copy of Tiger thinks that they know better about the GUI in a Beta piece of software that will inevitably be changed before release.