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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Please help me configure my dual 2Ghz G5

Please help me configure my dual 2Ghz G5
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innerimager
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Sep 30, 2003, 05:39 PM
 
I know my questions have been addressed in different threads but it would be very helpful to see these answered in a single context. I am a pro digital photographer, currently using a 1Ghz G4 15" Tibook with a 23" cinema display for photoshop and other image processing software (photodesk and nikon capture and iView) I plan ti use the cinema display with the G5, and maybe add a Sony Artisan. So....
1. Does the 9800 Radeon add anything or is it only helpful for games/3D rendering
2. I plan to have at least 4 gig of Ram. (I shoot a kodak 14N with huge files). Should I get the 512 and then add 3rd party Ram? If so, what is the best 1gig chips from who?
3. The G5 has 2 slots for internal hard drive, I believe. Recommendations for a 3rd party internal?
4. I have the original airport transmitter. I don't do much computer to computer networking, is the extreme transmitter much faster fir ethernet/cable modem access?
Thanks very much....Peter
     
aaanorton
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Sep 30, 2003, 06:30 PM
 
Originally posted by innerimager:
1. Does the 9800 Radeon add anything or is it only helpful for games/3D rendering
These cards are mostly geared toward 3D, which needs to move large amounts of data to the monitor quickly. Driving two (large?) monitors has similar requirements. I'm getting a 9800 for my 2x2 G5 and I'm a photographer as well.

2. I plan to have at least 4 gig of Ram. (I shoot a kodak 14N with huge files). Should I get the 512 and then add 3rd party Ram? If so, what is the best 1gig chips from who?
Again, this is what I'm going to do, but I'll probably fill the slots up with 512 chips instead. This will give me 4 GB of RAM. Then when the 1 GB chips start approaching reasonable prices, I'll switch them out. At least this is my current take on the subject.

3. The G5 has 2 slots for internal hard drive, I believe. Recommendations for a 3rd party internal?
Dunno, really, but the usual suspects (Seagate, Maxtor, WD) are likely candidates. I'll be making a dedicated Photoshop scratch disk partition on my additional drive.

4. I have the original airport transmitter. I don't do much computer to computer networking, is the extreme transmitter much faster fir ethernet/cable modem access?
No difference whatsoever. The only time you'll see a speed-up is transferring LARGE files BETWEEN computers. And even then, if you're going to do a LOT of this (like all your PS files), I'd suggest doing it wired anyway, maybe through a switch or replacement 3rd party .11b multi-port router.
     
Eug
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Sep 30, 2003, 06:32 PM
 
1. Does the 9800 Radeon add anything or is it only helpful for games/3D rendering
Theoretically it's not only helpful for games/3D, since Quartz Extreme is OpenGL accelerated, but in real-life the speed gains will be marginal for your usage. ie. Just get the 9600 Pro.

2. I plan to have at least 4 gig of Ram. (I shoot a kodak 14N with huge files). Should I get the 512 and then add 3rd party Ram? If so, what is the best 1gig chips from who?
Lots of Mac stores (online or B&M) will supply you inexpensive RAM. You can go with the stock 512 and add another 2 GB (4x512). I'm not sure you need 4 GB for your work. You could always start with 2.5 and then upgrade later if you find it's not enough. Images from the Kodak aren't really that big actually. About 45 MB if I recall. How many pictures do you load at a time?

3. The G5 has 2 slots for internal hard drive, I believe. Recommendations for a 3rd party internal?
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 250 GB with 8 MB cache SATA. Or else something with comparable specs.

4. I have the original airport transmitter. I don't do much computer to computer networking, is the extreme transmitter much faster fir ethernet/cable modem access?
Ethernet > Airport Extreme > Airport > cable modem
     
aaanorton
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Sep 30, 2003, 06:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
Ethernet > Airport Extreme > Airport > cable modem
Where > = "faster than".
     
vasu
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Sep 30, 2003, 07:39 PM
 
from personal experience and research online ... if you want the most reliable drive go Seagate, if you want the fastest go WesternDigital, if you want the cheapest, go Maxtor.

As far as other things, you'll be fine with the 9600 video card, and as far as the ram, I would start off adding 512mb dimms to get up to 4gb and then see if you want to upgrade.

-vasu
     
Eug Wanker
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Sep 30, 2003, 08:25 PM
 
Originally posted by vasu:
from personal experience and research online ... if you want the most reliable drive go Seagate, if you want the fastest go WesternDigital, if you want the cheapest, go Maxtor.
I've had IBMs, Fujitsus, Quantums, Seagates, Maxtors, and WDs die.

None are perfect.
     
aaanorton
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Sep 30, 2003, 09:07 PM
 
So nobody else thinks that the 9800 would be better for two large monitors? What about two Cinema displays, say a 23" and a 20" or two 23"ers?
     
innerimager  (op)
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Sep 30, 2003, 10:18 PM
 
Thanks to all that have responded. I'm writing it all down! I'll probably end up with a 21" CRT (Artisan) along with the 23"CD, so like aaaNorton I'm curious if the 9800 helps this use, it seems it may not matter. Best.....Peter
     
juanpacolopez
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Oct 1, 2003, 12:47 AM
 
Originally posted by aaanorton:
So nobody else thinks that the 9800 would be better for two large monitors? What about two Cinema displays, say a 23" and a 20" or two 23"ers?
Won't make the slightest bit of difference...

On cards w/ 64Mb+ video memory dual monitors are no problem...

The very (marginal) memory/GPU requirements of Quarts extreme really don't tax either card in the slightest.. we're talking on the order of a few hundred textures polygons onscreen at any given time (as opposed to the 10's of thousands per second found in a typical 3D game)...

The vast majority of the 2D image "processing" is still handled by the CPU (even in QE).

The "speed" of video redraws in any case will be exactly equal to the refresh rate (the DAC is almost always the limiting component).
Alex

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Leonard
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Oct 1, 2003, 04:38 PM
 
Originally posted by innerimager:
3. The G5 has 2 slots for internal hard drive, I believe. Recommendations for a 3rd party internal?
I've heard WD Raptors are really fast... probably expensive too.
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Oct 2, 2003, 01:10 AM
 
Originally posted by aaanorton:
So nobody else thinks that the 9800 would be better for two large monitors? What about two Cinema displays, say a 23" and a 20" or two 23"ers?
For 2D work, regardless of one or two monitors, the 9800 will make little if any noticeable difference.

I can drive a 22" Cinema Display and a 17" Studio Display just fine on my stock 9600.

If 2D work is all you'll do (i.e., no hard-core game playing), save yourself the $$ and spend it on RAM. Definitely.

     
Nelsun
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Oct 2, 2003, 01:41 AM
 
Interesting digression here regarding the videocards. When I order my G5, sounds like I could make use of the 9800 card. I use a CAD application called Ashlar Vellum Cobalt and it is a 3-D CAD app that I believe uses open GL.

From what I read here, am I understanding you guys right that for the photoshop user, which I use a lot too, there is no real gain, but for the CAD app, I would see a benefit. I don't play video games anymore on my Macs, that's what a Playstation is for :-), but the CAD improvement would be huge for me.

Nelson
     
denim
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Oct 2, 2003, 09:32 AM
 
Another concern is how much memory the OS can currently access. It certainly can't use more than 4GB, but can it use even that much? I dunno. Theorectically, it should but what has Apple actually implemented?
Is this a good place for an argument?
Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Me
     
Eug
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Oct 2, 2003, 12:35 PM
 
Another concern is how much memory the OS can currently access. It certainly can't use more than 4GB, but can it use even that much? I dunno. Theorectically, it should but what has Apple actually implemented?
The OS can address 4 Terabytes. The Power Mac can support up to 16 GB. Each individual app can access 4 GB, but you can have multiple apps running, each with 4 GB.

Interesting digression here regarding the videocards. When I order my G5, sounds like I could make use of the 9800 card. I use a CAD application called Ashlar Vellum Cobalt and it is a 3-D CAD app that I believe uses open GL.

From what I read here, am I understanding you guys right that for the photoshop user, which I use a lot too, there is no real gain, but for the CAD app, I would see a benefit. I don't play video games anymore on my Macs, that's what a Playstation is for :-), but the CAD improvement would be huge for me.
If it makes significant use of the card's 3D capabilities, the 9800 Pro should provide a nice boost.
     
denim
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Oct 2, 2003, 01:37 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
The OS can address 4 Terabytes.
With 32-bit pointers, some how I don't think so.
Is this a good place for an argument?
Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Me
     
Webscreamer
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Oct 2, 2003, 03:21 PM
 
Simple choice these days. Don't custom order. U never will get it.

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coolmacdude
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Oct 2, 2003, 03:53 PM
 
Originally posted by denim:
With 32-bit pointers, some how I don't think so.
G5 = 64 bit

Where have you been for the past year?
2.16 Ghz Core 2 Macbook, 3GB Ram, 120 GB
     
Eug
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Oct 2, 2003, 04:00 PM
 
Originally posted by coolmacdude:
G5 = 64 bit

Where have you been for the past year?
No he's right. OS X is NOT a full 64-bit OS. Just because the G5 is 64-bit (with 42-bit memory addressing) doesn't mean the OS is.

Originally posted by denim:
With 32-bit pointers, some how I don't think so.
I don't claim to understand the specifics, but my superficial understanding (as someone who doesn't do this for a living) was that this applies to individual apps, and not the OS as a whole. And, the CPU itself supports memory addressing of 42-bits, and the OS will support this in theory, but each process is limited to 32-bit. I will point you to this thread.

sizeof (void *) == 4 translates:

The size of a generic pointer (a variable capable of containing the address of anything in memory) is equal to four characters (a character, in C, traditionally takes up 1 byte).

Essentially, he's saying that the pointer size, and therefore the size of the memory available to any given process, is 4 bytes, or 32 bits.
Is it not possible to have 32-bit pointers for each app while the OS itself supports more than 32-bit memory addressing?
     
denim
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Oct 2, 2003, 05:01 PM
 
Originally posted by coolmacdude:
G5 = 64 bit
MacOS X through 10.2.8 == 32 bit. At best.
Is this a good place for an argument?
Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Me
     
denim
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Oct 2, 2003, 05:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
Is it not possible to have 32-bit pointers for each app while the OS itself supports more than 32-bit memory addressing?
I expect so, as a kind of compatability thing, but programs will need to be recompiled with a new pointer size at the very least to get them 64-bit clean. Or at least 42-bit clean...

We Mac people have been through this before, at the conversion from 24-bit to 32-bit clean, back in the late 1980s.

The "N-bit clean" refers to the use of addresses. If a 4-byte variable used as a pointer is known to not use the high byte, that byte got used for other things, such as attributes and such for the thing being pointed to. It took recoding of a lot of programs, including the OS, to fix this. Now they have to do it again.

Anyway, my point is that we had a number of systems for a while now which could load up to 2GB of memory, but Apple was quick to note that the OS would only address the first 1.5GB of it. Given that the OS is not likely to be able to access all 32-bits of the memory space, let alone more than that, I'm saying that installing gobs of memory at this time may be a bit disappointing until the OS and the apps can actually access it. Save your money until later, when the memory will be cheaper and the software can use it.
Is this a good place for an argument?
Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Me
     
aaanorton
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Oct 2, 2003, 06:00 PM
 
Originally posted by denim:
Save your money until later, when the memory will be cheaper and the software can use it.
Photoshop (8) CS is announced and can address large amounts of memory.
     
CIA
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Oct 2, 2003, 08:05 PM
 
Recently I've noticed a trend in the Macnn forums. Seems like an interesting thread will start up, and after a few posts it drops into name calling and pointless rants.
On that note, please disregard this post and continue with this actually interesting and informative discussion. (Thanks to all involved)
     
Hydra
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Oct 2, 2003, 08:56 PM
 
Originally posted by innerimager:

1. Does the 9800 Radeon add anything or is it only helpful for games/3D rendering
2. I plan to have at least 4 gig of Ram. (I shoot a kodak 14N with huge files). Should I get the 512 and then add 3rd party Ram? If so, what is the best 1gig chips from who?
3. The G5 has 2 slots for internal hard drive, I believe. Recommendations for a 3rd party internal?
4. I have the original airport transmitter. I don't do much computer to computer networking, is the extreme transmitter much faster fir ethernet/cable modem access?
Thanks very much....Peter
1. The 9800 will have limited use outside of 3-D work or gaming.

2. 1 GB dimms are too much money right now. It will be cheaper to get the standard 512 MB (2 x256MB dimms) and just add 6 more 512MB dimms for reasonable money and have a total of 3.5 GB. Wait 6 months and you could probably get the 1GB dimms for half what they go for now and just toss the 2x 256MB dimms away and still be ahead of the game.

3. I really Like Newegg for Hard-drives. You can get good OEM model ( I paid $299 for a 250GB WD - it is less now) and dropped it right in.

4. Airport Extreme is faster than a cable modem but still far slower than ethernet or firewire.

-Jerry C.
     
fhammond
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Oct 2, 2003, 11:11 PM
 
Originally posted by aaanorton:
Photoshop (8) CS is announced and can address large amounts of memory.
Actually, that is incorrect. Photoshop CS has a 2GB memory limitation. Sorry. Of course, that doesn't mean that more RAM isn't a useful thing: if Photoshop alone is using 2GB, having another 1 or even 2GB extra for other apps and the OS is good.

Regards,
Fergus
     
aaanorton
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Oct 3, 2003, 12:14 AM
 
Originally posted by fhammond:
Actually, that is incorrect. Photoshop CS has a 2GB memory limitation. Sorry. Of course, that doesn't mean that more RAM isn't a useful thing: if Photoshop alone is using 2GB, having another 1 or even 2GB extra for other apps and the OS is good.
Funny how 2 GB for an app is now not a large amount anymore... Isn't PS' usable limit more like 1.7? For some reason I thought earlier versions could only address ~half that. My bad.
It will be nice having the memory cushion, though, and not worry about PS being starved. I wonder how long til PS will get above this limit. PS CS.01? Yum.*

*EDIT
"You only need to apply this update if you are using a Macintosh G5 and OS X 10.3"
-proposed Adobe footnote
Yum yum.
( Last edited by aaanorton; Oct 3, 2003 at 12:43 AM. )
     
innerimager  (op)
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Oct 3, 2003, 06:18 PM
 
Thanks Hydra, and others. I'm still readin' and learnin' from all of you. best....Peter
     
   
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