[cpt kangarooski]

Evan_11--

Problem is that this is more liberal speak that we are indeed all phucked up and should just live with our differences.

And?

Normal doesn't mean ideal. It is not normal for anyone to grow up in a Cleavers sort of household. What is normal is merely what is common, whether that is good or bad by people's varying standards.

So essentially all that's here is that having persons of the same gender in parental roles doesn't seem to result in children being better off or worse off than if they were of opposite gender. You can still have a crappy or an ideal childhood or anything in between, just like everyone else.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
Check it out, the star wars dork is replying under two separate aliases in the same thread.

What a loser.

OT: Not to say that two homosexuals cannot raise a child normaly it just isn't normal.

Problem is that this is more liberal speak that we are indeed all phucked up and should just live with our differences.

Check it out, you are a bit slow. One was made from my home at 2 in the morning the everything today is from work. It is called cookies.

Duh

[Captain Obvious]

I don�t see the big controversy here. People are either born gay or they aren�t. It�s a genetic anomaly. Gay people aren�t going to turn children gay by raising them. As far as raising kids it�s fine with me so long as they pass background checks and are willing to submit to DCFS inspections like anyone else who adopts a kid. BUT� I think that the people giving up the kids should have the discretion in allowing them to be adopted by a gay couple or not. Up until the kid is adopted they should have some rights.

I wouldn�t worry about this too much. SWG wouldn�t ever pass the psychological stability requirements to adopt a kid and should he ever get the money to pay some surrogate to carry a baby his stupidity would be passed onto the child anyway. Either way Darwinian law is not is his favor or that of his theoretical offspring.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
I wouldn�t worry about this too much. SWG wouldn�t ever pass the psychological stability requirements to adopt a kid and should he ever get the money to pay some surrogate to carry a baby his stupidity would be passed onto the child anyway. Either way Darwinian law is not is his favor or that of his theoretical offspring.

Of course not, you know me so well and all through the powers of a computer forum on the internet. The adoption agencies should hire a brilliant mind like yourself to screen people

P.S you're not invited to my kids birthday.

[brink]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
BUT� I think that the people giving up the kids should have the discretion in allowing them to be adopted by a gay couple or not. Up until the kid is adopted they should have some rights.

I disagree. If you decide you cannot raise your child, then you have decided. You have given up all rights to say how your child should be raised. Otherwise, everyone would just say "I want rich people to raise my child."

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by hayesk:
You have given up all rights to say how your child should be raised. Otherwise, everyone would just say "I want rich people to raise my child."

...which is going to happen anyway.


it's extremely difficult to adopt a kid these days. age seems to play the biggest role (at least over here). once you're over 25 it's pretty much over. ideally you should be married, have a secure job (double income), perfect medical record, a house etc. etc.

[tooki]

One of the claims that befuddles me is the assumption that a straight couple will automatically make good parents. We all know that many are not. Some are accidental parents who didn't want the kids.

Gay couples cannot have kids without jumping through hoops. There is no chance of unwanted kids in a gay couple. Ergo, only those gay couples who really want kids are going to jump all the hurdles to get them. I wouldn't hesitate to speculate that this fact makes them better parents.

Really, who is the better parent: a couple who didn't have the good sense to use birth control and accidentally got pregnant before they both had steady incomes, or a gay couple who has had to demonstrate responsibility, financial and psychological stability, and shown the stamina needed to deal with massive bureaucracy, in order to adopt one single kid? Anyone willing to do that should be handed a baby on a silver platter, IMHO. (In gay couples, either an orphan child is adopted, or one of the parents is the biological parent, and the other parent legally adopts the child.)

(Mind you, I believe that people should need to get a license in order to have kids, and that they should all have parenting classes or a nanny mentor or something in order to get the license. I know that, at this point, I do not have the parenting skills needed to properly raise kids. I want kids, so at some point I'll take parenting classes.)

tooki

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Bingo tooki. You said it.

This idea that straight parents are good parents is stupid as all hell.

[Zimphire]

The idea that kids need both a father and mother figure isn't an absurd idea.

Sure they can do fine without one or another. I can survive being able to hear out of one ear.

But it would be best if I could hear out of both.

[ironknee]

Originally posted by tooki:
=----=

(Mind you, I believe that people should need to get a license in order to have kids, and that they should all have parenting classes or a nanny mentor or something in order to get the license. I know that, at this point, I do not have the parenting skills needed to properly raise kids. I want kids, so at some point I'll take parenting classes.)

tooki

[JLFanboy]

Okay, I'm jumping in.

Let's play "Who Can Quote More?" I'll go first.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The idea that kids need both a father and mother figure isn't an absurd idea.

Yes. Yes, it is.

I have known good people who grew up without a dual-sex, vaginal intercourse family unit.

I have also known terrible people who did.

I'll put this in bold, just to make sure you can see it: It's not the parents. It's the parenting. A parent is a parent, regardless of sexual orientation. There are good parents and there are bad parents. There are amazing heterosexual parents and there are terrible homosexual parents. This is unavoidable. Your problem (and yes, it is a problem) is that you feel sexual orientation is at all causally related to upbringing of a child. To say that there is a causal relation between homosexuality and bad parenting is the same as saying there is a causal relation between heterosexuality and good parenting. How about some more bold?

It does a disservice to every good, decent homosexual parent to claim the former, and it is is downright dangerous to claim the latter. It seems that if adoption were up to you, the system would gladly look past questionable qualifications if a couple simply liked to get down with someone of the opposite gender.

Those that claim this amaze me. Simply reading some study will not and cannot allow you to generalize something so complex. And this works both ways too. Any study that manages to show that one form of parental unit is better for a child than another is missing the point.

Alright, that's all I got now.

Oh, I almost forgot.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yes, the same Straight "experts" that claimed homosexuality wasn't a mental disorder.
The Article

Did you even bother to read the article?

Dr. Spitzer was skeptical, but he decided to find out for himself if sexual orientation was changeable. He developed a 45-minute telephone interview which he personally admistered to all the subjects. Most had been referred to him by The National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality and by Exodus, a ministry for homosexual strugglers. To be eligible for the study, the subjects had to experience a significant shift from homosexual to heterosexual attraction which had lasted for at least five years.

So let me get this straight. This guy launches a study. This study hopes to prove that change is possible. He gets all of his subjects from organizations that either try to suppress the reality of homosexuality through science or through religion. AND, all of the subjects had to have been changed for at least five years.

Of course he's going to prove his point. Honestly. How you can have the blind audacity to quote that garbage is beyond me.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by hayesk:
Bull. It's all how the kids accept the teasing. If they act like a victim then they will continue to be treated like a victim. If they take the teasing and act like it doesn't bother them, they are much better off.

Kids who tease have are generally trying to boost their self-esteem. When they tease other kids, they do it because they think it will make themselves look better in comparison. They are only looking for a negative reaction. If they don't get that negative reaction, they move on to something else.

Kids who get teased don't have to *fix* anything except how they accept the teasing. Moving away is a weak and temporary solution.

Bull. How the kids 'accept' the teasing usually has very little impact on whether or not the teasing continues. I was teased (or rather mobbed, since a great deal of it was physical, not verbal) extensively from 3rd to 10th grade, and the fact that I didn't act like a victim, that I acted as if it didn't bother me (which it didn't really, for the most part) didn't make them go one bit easier. Instead, it made them all the more determined to get that reaction they were going for. It's a no-win situation.

Originally posted by the_glassman:
A disease is natural is it not? It's brought on by something isn't it? So if you got an STD and now you can't have kids that's somehow my fault?

So, what about the woman who's been hit by a car as a 14-year-old, and as a result has had her ovaries destroyed, and can now never carry a child? That happened to a friend of mine. Is nature also trying to tell her something?

[Superchicken]

Hey SWG you're pretending like I didn't even post that... come on give the Chicken some loving. You didn't answer my question. How is understanding why you behave the way you do a bad thing?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Hey SWG you're pretending like I didn't even post that... come on give the Chicken some loving. You didn't answer my question. How is understanding why you behave the way you do a bad thing?

Do I have to know how a car works from top to bottom to ride in it? Why are you pushing this book like the bible?

[tooki]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The idea that kids need both a father and mother figure isn't an absurd idea.

I totally believe that children of both sexes need strong male and female role models. But these needn't necessarily be the parents. I mean, it's common for children of straight couples to latch onto an aunt or uncle or other relative or a family friend for a role model instead of the parent.

tooki

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by tooki:
I totally believe that children of both sexes need strong male and female role models. But these needn't necessarily be the parents. I mean, it's common for children of straight couples to latch onto an aunt or uncle or other relative or a family friend for a role model instead of the parent.

tooki

It is like saying single mothers or fathers are not fit to raise kids.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Do I have to know how a car works from top to bottom to ride in it? Why are you pushing this book like the bible?

Not one book, there's lots of books, and lots of points of view. You may not need to know everything about how your car works, but when you get a flat it's at least good to know how to replace it.

[JLFanboy]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Not one book, there's lots of books, and lots of points of view. You may not need to know everything about how your car works, but when you get a flat it's at least good to know how to replace it.

So are you implying that his homosexuality is his life's flat tire?

[Blue Flame]

Originally posted by JLFanboy:
So are you implying that his homosexuality is his life's flat tire?

are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?



Sorry, couldn't resist

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
You may not need to know everything about how your car works, but when you get a flat it's at least good to know how to replace it.

Bingo, there ya go, you are suggesting that homosexuality is something that is broken and needs fixing.

[Zimphire]

That depends on what you believe I guess.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Bingo, there ya go, you are suggesting that homosexuality is something that is broken and needs fixing.

I think there are certainly specific problems that will arise that your homosexuality will influence, whether or not you view it as a problem is up to you. However I personally know that I have certain personality traits that will more likely lead me to have conflicts with people who have those exact same personality traits, natural leaders, assertive people etc I will often run into conflict with. Through understanding how my head works it makes sense to me why my two most recent room mates get along so well with me where as my first hated my guts.
Understanding the psychology of behind what you do is not a bad thing, it can't be.

That said, I think it's unfortunate that so many kids who deal with this are pressured to simply accept it and move on without understanding why they're doing or thinking the way they do. It seems very unfortunate that people pressure young "gay" kids into only one form of life style when they have many to choose from.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
That said, I think it's unfortunate that so many kids who deal with this are pressured to simply accept it and move on without understanding why they're doing or thinking the way they do. It seems very unfortunate that people pressure young "gay" kids into only one form of life style when they have many to choose from.

Many life styles to choose from? People pressure young gay kids? The only pressure I've ever seen on gay kids is for them to go straight.

I don't try to delve into why I'm right handed, or why I have blue eyes, or why I have brown hair. I don't try to figure out why I like women.

That said...

[Oisín]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
Many life styles to choose from? People pressure young gay kids? The only pressure I've ever seen on gay kids is for them to go straight.

Well, even among those who advocate that kids should 'be who they are' and support gay teenagers in coming out, etc., there is often still a lot of 'passive pressure' (by which I mean pressure they don't even realise they're exerting most of the time) to then lead the kids into one single 'booth' of gaydom. What the Chicken said is true.

I don't try to delve into why I'm right handed, or why I have blue eyes, or why I have brown hair. I don't try to figure out why I like women.

First off, the first three are physical traits, not psychological/mental/whateverish ones, so they're not the same.

Secondly, neither do I. But maybe I/we should...

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
I think there are certainly specific problems that will arise that your homosexuality will influence, whether or not you view it as a problem is up to you.

the same could be said for any other personal and physical trait. it isn't the "trait" itself causing the problems though, but, as opposed to something that actually constitutes a pathology, a matter of social construct. in other words, nothing that needs to be "fixed".

this isn't a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact. a good analogy would be cosmetic surgery. these days a lot of people get their noses, asses or breasts corrected, because it "might" (in some rare medical cases it actually does) cause them "social discomfort". yet, no physician in their right mind would actually consider having a-sized cups a "pathology".

i don't know why this is so hard to understand (for some).

[shmerek]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Nope, I am happy with who I am and I see miserable straight people every day that I don't want to be like. I love my boyfriend, don't feel that I need to be cured or changed in any way. Just about every week I say to myself "Thank god I am gay". I know my mom and sister also love the fact that I am gay and the idea that I might adopt a kid some day.

If you or anyone eles thinks that is wrong I don't give a hoot as your say has nothing to do with my life. I am going to get married and adopt kids because I live in a great country that allows me to do that (as I pay taxes so why shouldn't I). I feel sorry for people who live in other countries where they are forced to pay taxes but not have the rights of other citizens because some disagree with their lifestyle.

glassman I am sad for you.