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tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 08:41 AM

This small company I design for has a really nice logo. It's a little pointless, (as many logos are) but it's attractive, distinctive, unique and functions well:

Guess what? The boss' wife, who has a salary, though no one knows what for, decided she am a deziner and put together a lo-res "logo" and wants me to create a hi-res version.

ARRRRRGH:

After 31 years in the business, I thought I had stopped taking these things personally... but ARRRRRRGH... this is such a mundane mediocre uninteresting thing... and it's not even a logo... I mean, WTF is that grey clam in the lower right? A turtle's shell as he slips out of view? A soccer ball someone left behind? A hubcap that fell off a passing car? It sure ain't a world globe...

waaaaaaaah...
There oughta be a law...

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 08:50 AM

Say what you will about the grey globe in the lower right corner, but I think her simple text layout for the Report is better than the loud busy version above.

JonoMarshall · Jul 25, 2007, 08:57 AM

...and that is why I try to design objectively to solve a problem, rather than stylistically and deal with the hundreds of subjective opinions out there.

Ask her what her aims are with the new logo? What's the desired response? Where will it be used? What was wrong with the old one? You can't just say ARRRRRRGH (although it's fun), personally I quite like her new (if not a little stale) identity... orange makes me smile.

JonoMarshall · Jul 25, 2007, 08:57 AM

(Dakar beats me at everything, tsk.)

Chuckit · Jul 25, 2007, 10:08 AM

I have to agree with tpicco. The new one is boring and generic; it lacks personality and doesn't really convey anything. It looks like something I'd expect to see at the top of one of those squatted domains that are supposed to look like Web gateways. But aside from the extreme vanilla flavor, I wouldn't say it's actively offensive. It's OK-looking just in and of itself. I've seen much worse first attempts at designing a logo.

I also have to agree that it looks like a turtle shell in the bottom right.

KeriVit · Jul 25, 2007, 10:09 AM

I have to say the gray and orange one is clean and more modern looking compared to the one above. Plus, it is more cost effective than the 4Color version.

I agree on the globe soccer ball thing tho- maybe you can convince them to lose that part.

Westbo · Jul 25, 2007, 10:40 AM

Everybody's a designer. Tony, do the high res - whatever, and charge them up the wazoo.

W2

Kevin · Jul 25, 2007, 10:58 AM

I hate to say this too.. but I like her design more than yours. Except for that globe thing at the bottom that doesn't scale well.

Hers is more pleasing to the eye, and more professional looking IMHO.

Yours wouldn't look bad without the yellow circle image thing you have going in the back.

Not that I the am end all or be all in design. There are much more experienced, talented people on this board than I. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

Chuckit · Jul 25, 2007, 11:40 AM

For those who think the new one is fine: Can anybody tell me what that odd swishy square beside the name is supposed to convey? It looks like it came out of a random pattern generator or something.

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

For those who think the new one is fine: Can anybody tell me what that odd swishy square beside the name is supposed to convey? It looks like it came out of a random pattern generator or something.

I was actually thinking that was the spot that the OP should use all his talents and powers to improve.

(I think it's another globe and some extra arrow or something...)

iREZ · Jul 25, 2007, 12:11 PM

the first logo is not a 'really nice logo' and the second one is a bit too vanilla and both logo's don't convey anything to me. both the box and that swirl need work, but if i had to choose i'd definitely go with the latter.

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 12:17 PM

For the record, the original logo wasn't mine... so my ego is not involved here... merely taste...

And I cannot discuss anything with the boss' wife... she knows everything and is never wrong... ask her if you don't believe me...

I think the new logo is so generic and mundane as to be invisible... I mean, a globe? Gee... 10,000 other logos have globes... and correct me if I am wrong, but aren't logos supposed to be memorable, not forgettable?

For additional visual input, here are this years' dummies for the two annual publications I design for them. Once again, I did not design the magazine banner... but the cover designs (photo chioce, headline font & colors) are my work...

Yeah yeah, I know, there are worse things happening in the world.... but this makes me sad sometimes... very few people seem to respect the fact that good designers have trained their eyes for 10, 20, 30 years... there is no phrase in graphics that equals the musical term "perect pitch" but there should be...

People have eyes and they think they see... but IMHO, many artists and designers are the ones who really SEE visuals...

grumble grumble grumble

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Westbo

Everybody's a designer. Tony, do the high res - whatever, and charge them up the wazoo. W2

...well that's a given.

Sherman Homan · Jul 25, 2007, 12:47 PM

If she is a "deziner" I hope she doesn't belong to any public Mac oriented forums, like, say macnn!

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 01:09 PM

Yeah I would be f**ked, wouldn't I?

rgkgraphix · Jul 25, 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by JonoMarshall

...orange makes me smile.

I love designing with orange

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

I was actually thinking that was the spot that the OP should use all his talents and powers to improve.

(I think it's another globe and some extra arrow or something...)

What is an OP?

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 02:52 PM

Original Poster.

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 02:54 PM

aha... me!

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 02:55 PM

True.

iranfromthezoo · Jul 25, 2007, 03:48 PM

while your at it tell them they need to redesign their website....it's so confusing and plain ugly...

Holmes Report the resource for corporate communications, public relations professionals, journalists

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 03:52 PM

i am not a web designer...

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 04:00 PM

Maybe I should try & get this thread killed before I get in any trouble...

KeriVit · Jul 25, 2007, 04:52 PM

I'm thinkin that may not be a bad idea. I would hate for them to see this and figure you out.

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 05:03 PM

I e-mailed the admin to have it pulled... is that how it happens around here? I have never been this stupid before (at least not on this board...)

andi*pandi · Jul 25, 2007, 05:34 PM

the second one is kind of generic, but I do like the typography sans swirl of the first one. The tagline shouldn't be in the same bold as the main type, and the box/circle cutout is like 40 zillion other box circle cutout. And the bottom globe shouldn't be part of a logo, what the heck? How does it relate to the rest of the logo?

Has anyone else weighed in on the fact that she rewrote the company tagline on a whim as well?

It took us 3 internal focus groups and an outside consultant to change our tagline. And it's been 3 years of us tweaking the logo desperately trying to get changes made. Baby steps.

Also this reminds me of the time our president took the annual meeting design home and gave it to his son to do in Microsoft Paint. Despite having 20 trained designers inhouse. Sigh.

tpicco · Jul 25, 2007, 06:36 PM

Thank you andi*pandi...

as for her whims, this is a mighty small consulting firm, consisting of Boss Holmes, his wife, their salesman and their factotum in the office (receptionist, bookkeeper, travel agent, messenger, etc etc)...

loki74 · Jul 26, 2007, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by tpicco

there is no phrase in graphics that equals the musical term "perect pitch" but there should be...

Agreed...

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Also this reminds me of the time our president took the annual meeting design home and gave it to his son to do in Microsoft Paint. Despite having 20 trained designers inhouse. Sigh.

(>_<)

the worst part is... this entire thread, and everything you've described happening to you is so typical!!

tpicco · Jul 26, 2007, 09:38 AM

yeah... well... after 30 years designing, one develops a thicker skin... but sometimes it just really gets to me...

JonoMarshall · Jul 26, 2007, 10:12 AM

I have thick skin on my toes sometimes.. an emery stone normally sorts it out.

Graphic design isn't exactly fashion, there are some rules that can back up your opinions/decisions?!?!

Thorzdad · Jul 26, 2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by tpicco

yeah... well... after 30 years designing, one develops a thicker skin... but sometimes it just really gets to me...

Join the club.
I've been doing this for the same number of years and still have to deal with regional sales VPs who fancy themselves art-directors. Of course, my being a contractor/freelancer tends to mean I have to take the direction from them and do whatever they say. At least that's the culture at the particular firm I'm thinking of. And, yeah, the CEO's wife occasionally chimes-in with her advice as well.

I think a lot of it has to do with the overall devaluing of what we do. We really aren't seen as knowledgeable professionals anymore. We're merely a service being paid to do what we're told to do, regardless of the experience and talent we bring to the table.

I've always thought it's because everyone grows up drawing in some way or another as kids. It's one of the more enjoyable life experiences. Thus, no one like to be told their opinions (when it comes to "art") are wrong. Or, at least, that your ideas are better.

Anyway, that's my cranky-armchair-designer-psychology moment for today

Westbo · Jul 26, 2007, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

Join the club.
I've been doing this for the same number of years and still have to deal with regional sales VPs who fancy themselves art-directors. Of course, my being a contractor/freelancer tends to mean I have to take the direction from them and do whatever they say. At least that's the culture at the particular firm I'm thinking of. And, yeah, the CEO's wife occasionally chimes-in with her advice as well.

I think a lot of it has to do with the overall devaluing of what we do. We really aren't seen as knowledgeable professionals anymore. We're merely a service being paid to do what we're told to do, regardless of the experience and talent we bring to the table.

I've always thought it's because everyone grows up drawing in some way or another as kids. It's one of the more enjoyable life experiences. Thus, no one like to be told their opinions (when it comes to "art") are wrong. Or, at least, that your ideas are better.

Anyway, that's my cranky-armchair-designer-psychology moment for today

As Jimmy Durante would say: "Ev'rybody wants ta get inta the act!"

W2

FastAMX79 · Jul 26, 2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by tpicco

I e-mailed the admin to have it pulled... is that how it happens around here? I have never been this stupid before (at least not on this board...)

And the best part is this thread is now listed on the front page of MacNN!!!!

Poor guy...

::maroma:: · Jul 26, 2007, 07:07 PM

The tagline under the new logo bugs me because its way too long. Extending that far beyond the company name looks really bad to me.

And there's the gray upside down bowl. We all know thats gotta go.

The 2 shades of gray on the logo is bugging me too. Looks like a mistake, even if it wasn't.

My list goes on...

But this is all beside the point, since I'm sure there is no reasoning with the boss's wife. As a designer working for a company, there will be many times you have to swallow your pride and just let it go. The company I work for just went through a logo redesign. The higher-ups gave us 2 weeks to come up with a brand new logo from scratch. And we had to do it in our spare time. Needless to say the submissions were weak. The result was a lame ass, overdone, poorly executed logo. And its on my damn business card. There was nothing I could do but say "hmf." and walk away.

So now all I have to do is stay with this company for about 10 years, in which time a new logo design might be needed and I will submit a super uber logo that I've been working on for said 10 years. I can't wait.

Westbo · Jul 26, 2007, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by FastAMX79

And the best part is this thread is now listed on the front page of MacNN!!!!

Poor guy...

Not the first time our guy has been controversial. T-man don't sweat the small stuff.

W2

art_director · Jul 28, 2007, 11:02 AM

I feel your pain. In situations such as this I generally give the client what they asked for then I give them a good option to replace their caca.

Best of luck.

bluedog · Jul 29, 2007, 10:11 PM

At least in everyday life, todos hacemos caca!

Kevin · Jul 30, 2007, 10:05 AM

What is worse, is when ad-reps think they know better.

I have one that thinks the MORE COLORS the better.

"She payed for a full color add, there needs to be more than 2 or 3 colors in it.."

I want to smack em. I had to sit down with them once. Showing ads of professional companies. How using all the colors in the rainbow usually =

Kevin · Jul 30, 2007, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

Join the club.
I've been doing this for the same number of years and still have to deal with regional sales VPs who fancy themselves art-directors. Of course, my being a contractor/freelancer tends to mean I have to take the direction from them and do whatever they say. At least that's the culture at the particular firm I'm thinking of. And, yeah, the CEO's wife occasionally chimes-in with her advice as well.

I think a lot of it has to do with the overall devaluing of what we do. We really aren't seen as knowledgeable professionals anymore. We're merely a service being paid to do what we're told to do, regardless of the experience and talent we bring to the table.

I've always thought it's because everyone grows up drawing in some way or another as kids. It's one of the more enjoyable life experiences. Thus, no one like to be told their opinions (when it comes to "art") are wrong. Or, at least, that your ideas are better.

Anyway, that's my cranky-armchair-designer-psychology moment for today

Ah this shiz is funny though

AHAHHAHAHH

"Just like grandma used to taste"

Thorzdad · Jul 30, 2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah this shiz is funny though

AHAHHAHAHH

"Just like grandma used to taste"

Thank you!
You'd be amazed how few clients I show that to get the joke.

Rolando_jose · Aug 1, 2007, 05:38 PM

Just what I do, after 13 years in the field, with a bunch of diplomas in the Design industry, I learned that every third cousin of the boss is a Designer, so I just "clear" what they want and charge em a leg, an arm and a blue-gray eye for it.

Rolando

art_director · Aug 1, 2007, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is worse, is when ad-reps think they know better.

I have one that thinks the MORE COLORS the better.

"She payed for a full color add, there needs to be more than 2 or 3 colors in it.."

I want to smack em. I had to sit down with them once. Showing ads of professional companies. How using all the colors in the rainbow usually =

Any agency with 'ad reps' is a whipping post for creatives. Prepare to bust rocks.

art_director · Aug 1, 2007, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rolando_jose

Just what I do, after 13 years in the field, with a bunch of diplomas in the Design industry, I learned that every third cousin of the boss is a Designer, so I just "clear" what they want and charge em a leg, an arm and a blue-gray eye for it.

Rolando

I would never diminish the value of education. However, the truth is diplomas mean diddly for creatives, especially art directors and designers. For example, one of the long running CDs at Weiden working on the Nike business is a college dropout. She's among the best in the business and everyone here who is into the biz has seen her work. I could list more but I think this one example gives credit to the point.

art_director · Aug 1, 2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

The tagline under the new logo bugs me because its way too long. Extending that far beyond the company name looks really bad to me.

That's not a tagline, that's a f*cking mission statement.

Taglines are short, sweet and they convey the brand position. Some recognizable examples:
• Just do it.
• For life.
• The ulitmate driving machine.
• Think different.

Veltliner · Aug 5, 2007, 01:57 AM

The globe so far down on the right looks like it's leaving the frame.

It's falling. Thrown away.

Earth, dumped. No need for earth. Holmes Report doesn't need earth.

I think this is a message.

Regarding the new headline (I'm sure that's the wrong expression in designer country, and I wonder what's the punishment for using it), it also has a mission statement in its design "let us help you to fall asleep with our exciting news".

The old logo conveyed more pride and self-assurance, and the contrast of black and red is attractive.

There could be two reasons for the swirl. 1. Designed in the early eighties 2. Holmes Report is about the ice cream industry.

selowitch · Aug 5, 2007, 02:08 AM

Perhaps one reason why so many talentless execs think they are designers is because they've watched shows like The Apprentice so many times they start believing they really can and should do everything.

Only trouble with this theory is that self-important incompetence has been around way longer than that.

andi*pandi · Aug 5, 2007, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Veltliner

There could be two reasons for the swirl. 1. Designed in the early eighties 2. Holmes Report is about the ice cream industry.

Kevin · Aug 6, 2007, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by art_director

Any agency with 'ad reps' is a whipping post for creatives. Prepare to bust rocks.

Not this office. The ad reps aren't even allowed in my office without going to my boss first.

If they turn in a request that doesn't meet the guidelines, I just send it back. They don't get their commission for it.

Ad reps have (had) a habit of sloppy and non-finished paperwork they do at the last minute to get in as much commission on their check as possible. Which made my job 10x harder. So my Boss told me if I run into anymore of them, just to give them to him, he will hold them a week and then give it back to the rep to fix.

Of course the rep will be expecting that ad on their check, and it wont be there. Then when they go to my boss and get all upset, my boss shows them their shoddy work they turned in and they come out of their offices with their tails between their legs.

The ad-reps do not run this office like they have in other offices I've been in.

eyevaan · 08:29 AM

the final design kind of reminds me of a telecom company... oh well, it's the client and I gotta go with the view - as long as they are paying -
smile and nod,
thank-you for your input,
you like the design?
I'm glad. It's been a pleasure working with you.
Yes, we had our differences. <chucklechuckle>
What? Sure we should collaborate more often.
You too, have a nice day. <click>
EFF Y O U!!!!! just pay your damn bill on time!

Originally Posted by tpicco

Maybe I should try & get this thread killed before I get in any trouble...

just delete the images... thanks for sharing your frustration, we all feel that from time to time.