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pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 12:25 AM

I thought the aluminium 12" and 17" powerbooks were introduced by what's his name at the SF expo at the same time? How come people have had the 12" for weeks yet our 17" is no where in sight?

Aren't the 12" and the 17" basically the same thing?...component wise I mean?

What could possibly be the problem with the 17" that wasn't a problem with the 12"

I must say...this realization has made me a little suspicious. Before this I hadn't really believed speculation that there was a problem with the product.

Another realization. Jobs said in his keynote (and yes i quote this...you can download the keynote from apple website so don't argue with me) that the 12" would be "shipping in 2 weeks"...which was like january 21st at that point. (i'm not sure if it shipped out on that day specifically and I don't really care...all I know is that people have now had them for a couple of weeks). Then he said that the 17" would be shipping in february. The people that ordered during or right after the keynote got a expected shipping date of 2-3 weeks....which at that point mean end of jan or beginning of feb...and would go with what jobs said. Then all of the sudden it was like...oh uh sorry...there was a "bug" in the system (was it's name steve? ) it's now going to be 7-10 weeks?? I think people are forgetting about thise keynote speech....this powerbook is late. very late. what could be holding it up if the components were basically the same as the 12" and that shipped weeks ago?!?!?

Maybe I'm mistaken??......

(and to all of you that are going to flame me...don't bother posting...I just want to hear from people that have an educated response to this realization)

AssassyN · Mar 12, 2003, 12:31 AM

Yikes, I'll go ahead and tell ya to expect some quaint remarks here...

As for the two AlBooks, they're *very* different. Component wise, 1Ghz vs. 867Mhz; L3 cache vs. no L3 cache; DVI-out vs. no DVI-out; 167Mhz front side bus vs. 133Mhz front side bus; nVidia 440 Go vs. nVidia 420 Go; Built-in AirPort Extreme & FireWire 800 vs. expandable to AirPort Extreme & No FireWire 800; no soldered on RAM vs. 128megs soldered on RAM; lit-keyboard vs. no lit-keyboard; Gigabit ethernet vs. 10/100 ethernet; the list goes on...

Too, Apple had something to go from on the 12" PB (iBook structure) but the 17" was an entirely new beast. In theory, Apple still isn't late in delivering these machines, as they promised 7-10 weeks, and it hasn't been 10 weeks yet, but I'm sure its just a more complicated machine to build, or some parts were short, oh the speculation could go for hours...but anyways, here's to hoping it comes soon!

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 12:35 AM

BUT NO!!!!!!!!!! THEY DIDN'T PROMISE 7-10 WEEKS AT THE BEGINNING!!!

AT THE KEYNOTE JOBS SAID FEBRUARY!! PEOPLE ORDERED AND ORDERS SAID 2-3 WEEKS...MEANING FEBRUARY!!

WHEN DID THIS 7-10 WEEKS BECOME *OK* ??!?!

THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THESE BOOKS. END OF STORY.

AssassyN · Mar 12, 2003, 12:39 AM

That was pointless and childish, why did I waste my time posting for a response like that...

If you went to Apple.com on the day of the keynote, it plainly said "7-10" week estimated ship time.

And oh yeah, complaining won't speed the process.

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 12:42 AM

why are you arguing with me? there are plenty of people that got the "2-3 week" delivery estimate...and then they got a "correction email" telling them that there was a "bug" in the system. There was no bug. steve said february. those 2-3 week estimates were right. or if you want to argue with me and go the whole month of february then it could have said 2-6 week estimate. but seriously where did 7-10 ever come from?! steve said february. that is total b.s. I don't know why "mac" people are in such denial about this issue of apple totally shafting them in the communication department.

Mr. Blur · Mar 12, 2003, 12:49 AM

you don't need to SHOUT. it appears you started yet another thread about the "late" 17" powerbooks just to start an argument.

AssassyN · Mar 12, 2003, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by pamelaubeda:
why are you arguing with me? there are plenty of people that got the "2-3 week" delivery estimate...and then they got a "correction email" telling them that there was a "bug" in the system. There was no bug. steve said february. those 2-3 week estimates were right. or if you want to argue with me and go the whole month of february then it could have said 2-6 week estimate. but seriously where did 7-10 ever come from?! steve said february. that is total b.s. I don't know why "mac" people are in such denial about this issue of apple totally shafting them in the communication department.

And you're telling me this because...?

Like I, you, or any other individual can do anything about it. Have a problem w/ it? Don't buy one!

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 01:05 AM

you know...I'm kind of expecting someone to say.... "hmmm...yeah...now that you mention it...that *is* right... I wonder what's going on?"

but instead...I get the typical answers..."well if you don't like it don't buy one *nyah nyah* "

Can't anyone see this isn't my point?!? You all get so defesive about your precious little apple.

I'm not going to go cancel my order like a baby...I understand business...but can't someone just comment on something that hasn't been pointed out before in these forums (becuase the things I mentioned before weren't pointed out exactly...just about them being "late") and get some interested speculation or feedback on it without the comment being called whining????

LosJackal · Mar 12, 2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
you don't need to SHOUT. it appears you started yet another thread about the "late" 17" powerbooks just to start an argument.

Seriously! pamela you're just picking fights now. And don't do it on my behalf.

On 1/7 at 11:40am my order was placed. I got an email at 11:45am that said:

Part Number: M8793LL/A
Product Name: PowerBook 17TFT/1GHz-L3/512DDR/60G/SuperDrive/64VRAM/56K/AIRPT
Unit Price: $3,299.00
Quantity: 1
Net Price: $3,299.00
Estimated time to ship: 30 days

At 1:29pm, I got another email saying my order was being processed.

At 5:20pm, I received this email:

To Our Valued Apple Customer:

Thank you for your order for the world's first 17" notebook!
As mentioned in the MacWorld keynote earlier today, and as our press release
stated, the new and exciting 17" PowerBook is scheduled to ship in February.
Unfortunately, the first few orders we received picked up the incorrect
availability information and we wanted to quickly update you on the actual
lead time of 7-10 weeks. We apologize for any confusion this messaging might
have caused. Please rest assured that we are looking forward to getting the
new 17" PowerBook in your hands as soon as possible. Also, you were one of
the first to order, and this update will not affect your place in line for
shipping the new PowerBook.

If you should have any questions at all, please don't hesitate to contact us.
If this corrected lead time is not satisfactory, please contact us so we can
suggest a product that may be available sooner, or we will honor your request
to cancel your order at any time prior to shipment.

Thank you for shopping at the Apple Store!

So as a customer, I'd say they kept me very informed that day, and I certainly could have chosen "a product that may be available sooner".

If you want to talk about why Steve and the press release said February, well the last week of February would have been the 7th week. It was an optimistic estimate. But don't crucify the company because the CEO on stage and the press release that was prepared ahead of time gave an optimistic date. February sure sounds better than March. But the Customer Service people are the ones responsible, and they made sure the customers like me were informed.

LosJackal · Mar 12, 2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by pamelaubeda:
you know...I'm kind of expecting someone to say.... "hmmm...yeah...now that you mention it...that *is* right... I wonder what's going on?"

Reset your expectations. We've been actively talking about this and other issues for the past two months. In fact, here's a very public news item on CNET that brought your concern to light a week ago shortly after "February" ended:

http://news.com.com/2100-1044-991051.html

It's just not news anymore.

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 01:12 AM

I'm not picking a fight. I AM pissed however because I get sick and tired of how some companies do business! "steve gave an *optimistic* date"...geez...Steve Jobs gave a date that sounded good. That's total bullshit.

I own a company, and I would never conduct myself how apple does. The customer comes first or else I don't get paid! And I have a good reputation because of it. If I just start throwing out dates that don't mean anything then what's the point?! I just don't give a date at all! I tell them what's involved and what factors determine availability and they make the decision.

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 01:15 AM

los jackal...thank you for that link. I hadn't seen a reputable article on the issue as of yet.

hhmm...I wonder if *cnet* is getting flamed for posting that article.

x user · Mar 12, 2003, 01:34 AM

Who cares? Anyone that ordered one should've known that that is the price you pay for purchasing brand-new just-introduced computers from Apple. If you didn't, now you know.

chrisutley · Mar 12, 2003, 01:37 AM

How the heck can you look at the 12" and 17" and assume they are basically the same thing?

Maybe there is a problem with 17", so what? Obviously they are working to correct it before they hit the shelves, and there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe they are just having problems sourcing certain components?

What was the point of your post anyway?

Originally posted by pamelaubeda:
Aren't the 12" and the 17" basically the same thing?...component wise I mean?

What could possibly be the problem with the 17" that wasn't a problem with the 12"

I must say...this realization has made me a little suspicious. Before this I hadn't really believed speculation that there was a problem with the product.

seanyepez · Mar 12, 2003, 02:27 AM

Apple can't ship the 17-inch PowerBook because 333-megahertz DDR memory for notebooks is a rare component. No other notebooks use it yet. When Apple introduces a product to the market for another company (be it RAM from Samsung or a video card from nVIDIA), they tend to screw up and not deliver as fast as they say they will. This happened with the GeForce3 came out. In fact, I got my GeForce3 months before people who ordered Power Macs with GeForce3's got their machines. Steve Jobs said that Mac users would be the first to get them. Apparently Apple couldn't deliver. I'm not surprised it's happening now with these PowerBooks. I wouldn't imagine they're having a hard time getting LCD's or lighted keyboards made. Those are custom components that they order a while in advance.

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 02:51 AM

AWARENESS was the point of my post Chris. Learn to read and comprehend....or look at sean's post...THAT was the kind of response I was looking for.

Like I said. I'm new to the mac world and this whole fiasco (yes I said fiasco...when you have hundreds of posts to forums about this topic it IS a fiasco) is new to me.

People sh*t on Dell all the time...well I had a high end Dell laptop and it worked like a beauty...never a problem with the product or the service. So THAT is what I'm used to. I am making the switch to apple because I was sick of windows and microsoft (the quality of the product) and I bought the story of apple and this myth of how eassssyyy everything is with them...yeah right.(...). What I am looking for in a company is communication, service, and quality. So far I have received none of this from apple...so I'm going on what I read here and what I experience. So far this experience has been bullshit. And some of you may say well you haven't paid yet so you can't complain. That's a total bullshit comment too...My customers come to me because of my reputation and my quality of product...the good customer service starts as soon as they walk in my door or call me on the phone, regardless if they've dropped a dime or not. THIS is how companies should work and THIS is how the public should expect it to work. NO LESS.

Macpilot · Mar 12, 2003, 02:52 AM

The difference is they can actually ship you a 12 and you can obly hope and get in line for a 17 that might not ship till April! That thing better be perfect when it finally does ship.

I would be pissed if I was one of the people who ordered a 17 and needed it by the time Jobs said they would be shipped.

Apple is starting to slip here and there. The Power Mac noise issue, the iBook CD burning, 10.2.4 bugs, and the repeated inability to ship products as promised.

Hopefully these things are just speed bumps.

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 02:57 AM

Good points macpilot.

And *I* am one of those people who is pissed. It took me a while..but I finally realized that this is whole issue is bullshit. Do I still want the laptop..yeah..because it exactly what I need...can I still be pissed about it though...hell yeah.

BigDaddy · Mar 12, 2003, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by pamelaubeda:
BUT NO!!!!!!!!!! THEY DIDN'T PROMISE 7-10 WEEKS AT THE BEGINNING!!!

AT THE KEYNOTE JOBS SAID FEBRUARY!! PEOPLE ORDERED AND ORDERS SAID 2-3 WEEKS...MEANING FEBRUARY!!

WHEN DID THIS 7-10 WEEKS BECOME *OK* ??!?!

THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THESE BOOKS. END OF STORY.

Must be a problem with your caps lock as well.

pamelaubeda · Mar 12, 2003, 03:01 AM

oh yes...HEAVEN forbid anyone use CAP LOCKS here. Oh my! We cannot raise our voices...we wouldn't want to make our precious jobs angry now would we....he might just make us wait a YEAR for our powerbook.

*...all praise steve jobs...all praise steve jobs...*

some of you people are just so fuc*ing wishywashy.

OSXFreak · Mar 12, 2003, 04:03 AM

First of all aggression such as that which is being displayed here achieves little but proprogating retaliatory aggression. If we all keep calm, I'm sure we can have an adult debate here.

The fact of the matter is that Apple are a little late on the delivery of their product according to Steve Jobs promised delivery date.

We live in an imperfect world, and whilst it would be desirable to meet all promised deadlines, the assembly of complex machinery has so many dependencies that it is often very difficult to meet these deadlines. Apple is not peculiar in this respect; delays are commonplace in all areas of engineering, including the automobile sector. If you've ever pre-ordered a car before it has been rolled out, you'll know what I mean.

So, should we accept these failures? It's up to you, but my guess is that you'll lead a pretty unhappy life if you react in this way to every such failure. It's your prerogative. However, the old adage "accept the things you can't change and make the things you can change better" applies here.

And you most certainly can't change Apple's shipping arrangements.

dUbio · Mar 12, 2003, 06:46 AM

-->pamelaubeda

Why not buy a 15" PB? It's fast got a big screen and if it's not big enough get a 23" Cinema display!!

cliff · Mar 12, 2003, 07:26 AM

Go buy a Dell Dude.

AssassyN · Mar 12, 2003, 09:19 AM

- "I own a company, and I would never conduct myself how apple does."-

I'm sorry, you've already done worse.

And guess what else? If you haven't realized by now, being "pissed" does you exactly *how* much good? It's making your PB arrive *how* much faster? It's raising your stress level to unorthodoxed heights for *what* reason?

-"Go buy a Dell Dude."-

Word.