[olePigeon]

At least 3 or 4 articles at the various news sites. Apple's going out of business again, blah, blah.

And when the new G5s come out or whatever the next big product is, they'll be touting how Apple is a marketing genius and how they're reshaping the computing industry. Weeks later they'll be going out of business again.

[olePigeon]

Oops, delete. Didn't see MacsGalor's gripe.

[MindFad]

I agree, though. I don't understand. Why all of the Apple doomsday garbage when the company is doing *really well* right now?

[ambush]

Originally posted by MindFad:
I agree, though. I don't understand. Why all of the Apple doomsday garbage when the company is doing *really well* right now?

You're just being stupid, there.

You KNOW why. Because they seem to be focusing on music.

That's all.

[MindFad]

o i c

[juanvaldes]

Apple has done almost zero with the "main business" ie hardware in months. Plus slow news day means recycle "classic" material. Thus a few apple is dying articals.

[ambush]

Originally posted by MindFad:
o i c

stop being arrogant and get your facts straight

Apple Computer, Inc. is not selling enough computers.

[MindFad]

o rite, i forgot my arrogance tags. and facts, too, apparently

Apple is not selling enough computers? They're certainly not doing terrible. Definitely not doomsday article terrible.

[fizzlemynizzle]

Originally posted by MindFad:
I agree, though. I don't understand. Why all of the Apple doomsday garbage when the company is doing *really well* right now?

There's also the fact that HPaq/Dell/Microsoft/Intel/Sony spend far more advertising money with these magazines than Apple does. They see Apple's success with the iPod and want to shoot them down, so they reach out to their friends to write bad articles about the iPod, ITMS, etc. Spread FUD around. Apple's in a place it's never been before - at the top of the heap with a tremendous marketshare. They are now the Microsoft of the digital music business. HP/Sony/Microsoft/Dell all want a piece of that business so they'll do whatever they have to do to tear Apple down. Their products suck the dog and they know they can't win the fight head to head, so they'll have the use underhanded tactics like this magazine article crap.

Oh and there's also the fact that Steve Jobs is the CEO of Pixar, another company that's been wildly successful in a new market: digitally animated movies. Steve Jobs probably pissed off a lot of people who want to maintain the status quo when he told Eisner to get bent. And they all know that Pixar is in a position to become a lot more than just a studio if they keep cranking out these incredible movies. In the future it's very likely you'll see Steve Jobs as the CEO of the king of digital music and the king of animated films.. that's the framework of a media empire. So Rupert Murdoch, Eisner and all the current media kings with their shitty little old boys network will do whatever they have to do to put that down. Again, they're clueless when it comes to "getting" what it is that turns people on.. so they'll sink those that _do_ get it until all that's left is more of the same old crap.

[dampeoples]

The other news is slow? These articles always generate hits? We sure read them all.

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Apple has done almost zero with the "main business" ie hardware in months.

You know, i'm fscking grateful for that. I just hate it when you buy a nice toy and it is superseded in a few days.

My new toy is still the bestest and the fastestest and the coolestest and meanestest!

(though that bleeping fan update didn't quiet it down much)

HA!

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by MindFad:
I agree, though. I don't understand. Why all of the Apple doomsday garbage when the company is doing *really well* right now?

Can you please explain how you think Apple is doing *really well* right now?

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by ambush:
stop being arrogant and get your facts straight

[mitchell_pgh]

I think it's because Apple doesn't have the correct hardware and they aren't getting out the message that the Mac is back.

- Their commercials are sucking (the iPod ones are OK, but their hardware ones aren't and they aren't showcasing how that if you have an iPod, that you should consider a Mac computer AKA the trojan horse.

- Their hardware isn't doing it for me
(G5 too expensive)
(iMac - don't like the look, don't like the strapped on screen, 1GHz-1.5GHz)
(eMac - reminds me of the poor mans Mac)
(iBook - reminds me of the poor mans PowerBook)
(PowerBook - Too expensive)

I'm probably going to be picking up a last years model G5 and an iBook here in the next year, but I feel something is missing.

[axlepin]

I remember a smug PC person telling me about some InfoWeek article predicting that Apple would vanish in 5 years, tops...this was in 1997.

Apple has been on the brink of oblivion, according to the press, for...about as long as it has existed.

It is reality that Apple has the minority market share, but this isn't because their products are bad or are too expensive. It's because of some missed opportunties and past arrogances on Apple's part, and because billy and the redmond gang were able to slip their brand of goo into a very large existing PC landscape.

The user who's going to whine and whimper that a professional rig costs $2K -$3K is probably a wanker or a tourist; true professionals know that good equipment costs money, whether Mac OR PC. This is true in any industry. To hear these complainers talk you'd think that Apple was charging $100,000, and PC makers were all charging $25.

Probably the biggest factor in Apple's marketshare now is that the PC-using world is in a sense held hostage to wintel...how many CEOs want to rock the boat on an entrenched m$ userbase by changing platforms, even if the one they're using is Mi$erable and fraught with security problems, instabilities, inefficiencies?

A

[TubaMuffins]

i think apple will always have the minority because it is a more luxurious computer than an MS box. its like buying a BMW instead of a Saturn or something like that. I also dont think apple has a problem with this, they are happy to cater to people with higher standards.

Also, what does FUD mean? f*ed up data?

Originally posted by TubaMuffins:
i think apple will always have the minority because it is a more luxurious computer than an MS box. its like buying a BMW instead of a Saturn or something like that. I also dont think apple has a problem with this, they are happy to cater to people with higher standards.

Also, what does FUD mean? f*ed up data?

Fear, Uncertainy, Doubt. For example, Microsoft likes to instill FUD in their users so they'll be afraid to try anything else.

[mitchell_pgh]

I also feel that the media will only let Apple be "so cool" before they start posting anit-news.

For such a small company, they sure do get a ton of press.

[Turias]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
- Their hardware isn't doing it for me
(G5 too expensive)
(iMac - don't like the look, don't like the strapped on screen, 1GHz-1.5GHz)
(eMac - reminds me of the poor mans Mac)
(iBook - reminds me of the poor mans PowerBook)
(PowerBook - Too expensive)

So, it's either too expensive or it's a "poor mans Mac"...

I don't think the bottom-line G5 is that expensive. I guess I can't blame you if you don't like how the iMac looks, but personally, I think the hardware is doing fine. Once they get the G4s out of the iMac and the Powerbook, Apple will be golden.

[Mark Tungston]

apple does have insidputable hardware problems

look at and compare what apple offers with dell for instance and forget about price and performance... look at the release schedules and offerings per quarter.

apple doesn't release that much stuff and EVEN LESS lately

in the world of PCs...this is the standard and apple doesn't keep up even if they did have "the fastest computer" 6 months ago

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Turias:
So, it's either too expensive or it's a "poor mans Mac"...

I don't think the bottom-line G5 is that expensive. I guess I can't blame you if you don't like how the iMac looks, but personally, I think the hardware is doing fine. Once they get the G4s out of the iMac and the Powerbook, Apple will be golden.

I'm simply looking for a replacement to my current computer.

I paid $1299 for a 733MHz G4 PowerMac in late 2001. For me, it was the perfect computer because I was able to buy the computer, and then piece together some of the extras at a later time (dual CRT screens, more ram, additional/larger HD).

I will admit that I probably could have simply purchased a iMac at the time, but I'll be honest, I couldn't afford a LCD at the time.

So, my computer probably was worth a total of $1800 - $1900 (when everything was new - two 17" CRTs, additional 512 RAM, Large HD etc.)

I simply feel that the current hardware configurations are either PRO (and bit $$$'s) or Beginner (lower $$$'s, but limited features)

I guess I don't consider placing another HD in my system a pro feature, or having another monitor a pro feature.

I also have long term plans for my G4 tower. It's going to turn in to a Music server or perhaps a Video server in time along with many other menial applications that won't require a nice LCD screen.

I know this sounds like a "me me me" complaint, but I feel a thick gap between the pro and the consumer models.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
apple does have insidputable hardware problems

look at and compare what apple offers with dell for instance and forget about price and performance... look at the release schedules and offerings per quarter.

apple doesn't release that much stuff and EVEN LESS lately

in the world of PCs...this is the standard and apple doesn't keep up even if they did have "the fastest computer" 6 months ago

Dell really doesn't change their lineup all that much... It would be like Apple coming out with a 733 eMac, then three months later an 800MHz, then three months later an 833, then a 866, then a 900 etc. etc.

Yah, it LOOKS like the systems would be faster, but really, the speed increase is marginal because of drive access speed, buss speed etc.

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
apple does have insidputable hardware problems

look at and compare what apple offers with dell for instance and forget about price and performance... look at the release schedules and offerings per quarter.

apple doesn't release that much stuff and EVEN LESS lately

And yet, people complain the loudest about there Macs being out of date because they just bought one "a month ago" and a new one is out already. People don't complain when their Dell is out of date a week later.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by hayesk:
And yet, people complain the loudest about there Macs being out of date because they just bought one "a month ago" and a new one is out already. People don't complain when their Dell is out of date a week later.

I think it's because they don't know that a new model is out...

PC people buy and then forget...
PC people don't know what ports are on their computers...
PC people don't know what type of RAM they need/have
PC people don't know much/anything about their systems

historically this has been true for Mac users, but that's changing in a big way...

[fizzlemynizzle]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think it's because they don't know that a new model is out...

PC people buy and then forget...
PC people don't know what ports are on their computers...
PC people don't know what type of RAM they need/have
PC people don't know much/anything about their systems

historically this has been true for Mac users, but that's changing in a big way...

If the above were true then why are there about 5 million sites dedicated to PC hardware, tech reviews, overclocking, etc? Ars Technica, Anandtech, Overclockers.. there are literally dozens of sites and forums about that stuff.

[Turias]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think it's because they don't know that a new model is out...

PC people buy and then forget...
PC people don't know what ports are on their computers...
PC people don't know what type of RAM they need/have
PC people don't know much/anything about their systems

historically this has been true for Mac users, but that's changing in a big way...

I don't think that's necessarily true. I think PC users are just used to the fact that computer upgrades will continue to happen at a rapid pace. Mac users have lived in a world where upgrades are few and far between. I think the only way to break the mold of Mac users that complain about their new machines no longer being new is for Apple to quicken their release cycle.

[mitchell_pgh]

Good points...

I guess I simply deal with Windows people that are clueless.

There are a ton of hardcore PC people, I just don't see them on a daily basis like diehard Mac people...

[dcolton]

Originally posted by TubaMuffins:
i think apple will always have the minority because it is a more luxurious computer than an MS box. its like buying a BMW instead of a Saturn or something like that. I also dont think apple has a problem with this, they are happy to cater to people with higher standards.

Also, what does FUD mean? f*ed up data?

Your statement is exactly the problem. Arrogant, "Apple can do no wrong," users who want to justify their computer by comparing it to a car.

When Apple has an issue...zealots (I am not referring to you) always want to dismiss the issue and attack their fellow Apple users for insinuating that an issue exists. Prime example - the iBook Logic Board problem. Of other users wouldn't have blindly supported Apple, perhaps Apple wouldn't have had to cave in to a potential class action suit. But instead, Zealots claimes that Apple manufactured a near perfect computer and any ilogic board issue was a rare lemon.

Also,

I think it's because they don't know that a new model is out...

PC people buy and then forget...
PC people don't know what ports are on their computers...
PC people don't know what type of RAM they need/have
PC people don't know much/anything about their systems

historically this has been true for Mac users, but that's changing in a big way...

Attacking and insulting PC owners goes a long way in alienating potential Apple owners. Couple this with the arrogance of anything Apple is great, and you create a backlash for the company you so dearly love. (Once again, not referring to anyone here as a Zealot)

So, basically what I am saying is that the end user (us) need to hold Apple more accountable for better products, more choices, cheaper prices, etc. When we don't make demands as consumers, we are only hurting Apple.

[TubaMuffins]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Your statement is exactly the problem. Arrogant, "Apple can do no wrong," users who want to justify their computer by comparing it to a car.

When Apple has an issue...zealots (I am not referring to you) always want to dismiss the issue and attack their fellow Apple users for insinuating that an issue exists. Prime example - the iBook Logic Board problem. Of other users wouldn't have blindly supported Apple, perhaps Apple wouldn't have had to cave in to a potential class action suit. But instead, Zealots claimes that Apple manufactured a near perfect computer and any ilogic board issue was a rare lemon.

first of all, i have an ibook that had a faulty logic board. it was finals week and i already didnt have a computer for 2 weeks. after one month of not having a computer and writing papers in computer labs, i was pissed off at apple. i just think that apple's niche is higher end users, not a cheap computer that looks bad and performs mediocre. i made the car comparison because it was the first thing that popped into my head. its the idea of the comparison, not the comparison itself.

[MacGorilla]

mmmmmmmmmmmm

[sniffer]

Agree with mitchell_pgh here. I am interested in some new hardware, but I too find it difficult to convince my self what modell that would fit my needs and economical situation.
Right now probably the best offer Apple have for me and my needs is the entry G4 tower. I too have a problem with the gap between the consumer all in one and the pro line up. OTOH the gap is nothing new about Apple.
It's just that this time, even if I could afford a new machine right now, I would still brobably hold back to see what's Apples next offering around the corner. When will we see the G5 spread to the other modells? If soon, it could probably boost sales on the affected modells I am sure. I think a small push/upgrade is what is needed right now for some of the Apple offerings.

[mitchell_pgh]

I hardly ever mock PC users (well, I do it a bit more on these forums... ), but I've grown a thick skin over the past decade with regards to Mac bashing so I apologize if defending of the Mac flares up. It's easier when you are an adult because words like "idiot", "fool", "moron" aren't used to describe you as a Mac user. Also, with the advent of OS X and the Unix underpinnings, we are starting to see a very well informed user base.

If anything, I think Mac users are overly critical of their OS and hardware. Crashing applications, GUI inconsistencies, and incompatibility are absolutely unacceptable.

Regarding hardware it's the same way. you hear such outrage over the faulty motherboards because it's not normal. I don't think anyone is dismissing these people, but at the same time people tend to jump out of their skin in anger over this stuff.

Apple is honoring their warranty, yet people continue to freak out. I'm not saying that they should be happy, but they should realize that they are just using industry practices (actually, better then industry standard practices as most computers are out for MONTHS with other manufacturers..).

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by sniffer:
Agree with mitchell_pgh here. I am interested in some new hardware, but I too find it difficult to convince my self what modell that would fit my needs and economical situation.
Right now probably the best offer Apple have for me and my needs is the entry G4 tower. I too have a problem with the gap between the consumer all in one and the pro line up. OTOH the gap is nothing new about Apple.
It's just that this time, even if I could afford a new machine right now, I would still brobably hold back to see what's Apples next offering around the corner. When will we see the G5 spread to the other modells? If soon, it could probably boost sales on the affected modells I am sure. I think a small push/upgrade is what is needed right now for some of the Apple offerings.

I just can't get over it. There really isn't a "prosumer" computer IMHO.

To touch a superdrive, you either get an:

eMac
$1,099.00
1GHz PowerPC G4
256MB SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive

or

iMac
$1,799.00
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
SuperDrive
Apple Pro Speakers
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth Option

or

PowerMac
$1,799.00
1.6GHz PowerPC G5
800MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR333 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem

I'm not saying the PowerMac isn't totally amazing and worthy of the cost, it's more of an issue of affordability. $1800 (for a "prosumer") is pricey (again, the g5 value is somewhat in line with PCs)

I also love the design of the iMac, but bolting the screen on to the computer is limiting in my opinion. Not only can you only use the screen for the one computer, but you can't add a second screen. What happens when you buy a new computer, you need to buy another LCD. We all know that monitors last longer then the computers.

I would HANDS DOWN rather purchase a headless eMac and a 17" cinema display. The sad part is, I'll probably end up with an eMac or a referb G5 (version 1 when version 2 comes out)

[dcolton]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Regarding hardware it's the same way. you hear such outrage over the faulty motherboards because it's not normal. I don't think anyone is dismissing these people, but at the same time people tend to jump out of their skin in anger over this stuff.

Apple is honoring their warranty, yet people continue to freak out. I'm not saying that they should be happy, but they should realize that they are just using industry practices (actually, better then industry standard practices as most computers are out for MONTHS with other manufacturers..).

Well, the issue is the fact that apple denied any issues with the iBook and the motherboard. Many times they claimed that there were no known issues - but there were. I know for a fact that Apple resolved these issues with customers who made a big deal over it while telling others that there is no issue. I can't tell you how many times I was verbally attacked for being outraged over having a computer that failed once every 2 months - 6 times in less than a year. I was a switcher and I regretted every moment of using a unreliable computer - as many others.

Your apologetic attitude is exactly why Apple is not growing any faster. It IS an outrage to knowingly sell a computer with known logic board issues and the outcome of Apple's ethical dilemna is resulting in a loss of profits and a huge expense. If they were honest from the beginning, I believe things would be different.

[Link]

The dumbest case of mac apologist acting I've seen yet ==

*Mods removing all the white spot threads in the PB forum
*Someone actually ASKING to stop b!tching about powerbook problems
*mac apologist going into said threads, asserting that the person with the problems is at fault, or the person is crazy, or etc...
*said threads turning into dick enlargement (errr: MY COMPUTER WORKS FINE! NO PROBLEMS HERE LALALALALA I can'''t heeeaar you!!!!)

Heh.. that and apple hasn't updated their product line since like LAST YEAR except for that dumb little ipod everyone wants..

If they wait until june to revise the powermac it BETTER be more than a speedbump.

[fireside]

Originally posted by Link:
The dumbest case of mac apologist acting I've seen yet ==

*Mods removing all the white spot threads in the PB forum

actually, they deleted all but one because everyone was spamming the forum with "WHITE SPOTS OMG" when there were already twenty topics about it.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would HANDS DOWN rather purchase a headless eMac and a 17" cinema display. The sad part is, I'll probably end up with an eMac or a referb G5 (version 1 when version 2 comes out)

I think a refurb G5 would be preferable to a headless eMac...

[sniffer]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Your apologetic attitude is exactly why Apple is not growing any faster. It IS an outrage to knowingly sell a computer with known logic board issues and the outcome of Apple's ethical dilemna is resulting in a loss of profits and a huge expense. If they were honest from the beginning, I believe things would be different.

That's ridiculous. Do you know the exact number on how many people that is affected by logic board problems? Or if Apple is any better or worse than comparable companies? It's sure not healty for a company with unsatisfied customers, but as long no one really know the full scale and picture of this case and others, I can't see why your subjective point of view should weight more than others. That said, I do think it's quite unfear that you have suffered so much with this issue, and I too find it highly unacceptable. But the only one by my opinion that deserves to be blamed is Apple.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by ambush:
You're just being stupid, there.

You KNOW why. Because they seem to be focusing on music.

That's all.

Originally posted by Link:
The dumbest case of mac apologist acting I've seen yet ==

*Mods removing all the white spot threads in the PB forum
*Someone actually ASKING to stop b!tching about powerbook problems
*mac apologist going into said threads, asserting that the person with the problems is at fault, or the person is crazy, or etc...
*said threads turning into dick enlargement (errr: MY COMPUTER WORKS FINE! NO PROBLEMS HERE LALALALALA I can'''t heeeaar you!!!!)

I disagree. Too many people consider the Apple message boards an open forum, like this one. It is a support forum. If you post bitching about white spots and there are already ten topics about white spots, then what's the point of your post. If you haven't added anything new to the conversation, then they should be deleting your post.

The Apple support forums are there for people looking for help. A hundred "me too" posts aren't going to help anyone. As long as they leave the posts with relevant information, they're doing their job.

[wdlove]

I have been hearing much more anti Microsoft news that for Apple. The Apple news has been positive.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
I think a refurb G5 would be preferable to a headless eMac...

You mean a G5 bump, don't you...

I would rather see a bumped G5 over a headless eMac, but I would rather see both...

I would love a $900 headless eMac (w/ Superdrive) and a $500 17" CRT option over just a bumped iMac or eMac...

[mitchell_pgh]

Apple has been missing their ship dates a bunch as of late...

It's hard because they try to keep everything secret, but once they do let the cat out of the bad, everyone stops buying until the new stuff ships.

[mitchell_pgh]

I can only imagine how full this forum would have been back in 1996 when the Performa 6400 came out... What a pile of cap I purchased!

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
You mean a G5 bump, don't you...

I would rather see a bumped G5 over a headless eMac, but I would rather see both...

I would love a $900 headless eMac (w/ Superdrive) and a $500 17" CRT option over just a bumped iMac or eMac...

You said you wanted a headless eMac, but you'll probably settle for a refurb rev A G5 once the rev B comes out. I'm just saying that doing what you'll probably do will get you a far better machine anyway than you'd get with a headless G4 eMac.

[Chemmy]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
(G5 too expensive)
(iMac - don't like the look, don't like the strapped on screen, 1GHz-1.5GHz)
(eMac - reminds me of the poor mans Mac)
(iBook - reminds me of the poor mans PowerBook)
(PowerBook - Too expensive)

For someone who clearly doesn't have money, you sure do look down your nose at people with even less money than you.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Chemmy:
For someone who clearly doesn't have money, you sure do look down your nose at people with even less money than you.

"poor mans" wasn't meant to be a dormitory remark towards iMac, eMac and iBook users. It was more to showcase the widening consumer vs. pro gap. I'm one of those people that doesn't absolutely need the fastest system, but at the same time, needs pro features from time to time. I apologize it that's how anyone took it that way, and I wasn't trying to be rude.

I find the $1800 starting point for dual monitor support ridiculous at the desktop level. I also like being able to install a second or third HD (the third isn't even offered in a G5 yet) and having the potential to upgrade video cards.

I'll admit that I can't spend $1800 on a CPU and I am guessing that I'm not the only one.

That being said, I shouldn't be locked in to an entry level system.

Chemmy, I only said too expensive... not I'm too poor to buy that computer... It's a financial choice.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Your apologetic attitude is exactly why Apple is not growing any faster.

I wasn't apologizing for Apple, I simply stated that tech problems happen. You are assuming a TON here. You assume that apple knew the motherboards were ALL faulty, you assume that they lied etc. etc.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
You said you wanted a headless eMac, but you'll probably settle for a refurb rev A G5 once the rev B comes out. I'm just saying that doing what you'll probably do will get you a far better machine anyway than you'd get with a headless G4 eMac.

Very true... funny thing is, I just got this offer today...

NEW FROM APPLE

PowerMac G4
1.25GHz (single CPU)
256MB
80GB
Combo
= = = = = = =
$899

I'm probably going for it... and I'll hold out on the G5.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Very true... funny thing is, I just got this offer today...

NEW FROM APPLE

PowerMac G4
1.25GHz (single CPU)
256MB
80GB
Combo
= = = = = = =
$899

I'm probably going for it... and I'll hold out on the G5.

While that is tempting, the fact is that by all accounts the G5 is ri... er, ready to be updated really soon. Who knows, if the rev B G5's kick as much ass as they are rumored to, the prices of refurb rev A G5's might go way down...