[starman]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's not about sitting on the phone, the issue is sitting with the phone in your front pocket.

No, the issue is that there is no issue.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Oh, and there you go distorting things... again. Consumer reports based the results on a small sample (one phone), hell, at least the guy on Youtube bent two of them. You're willing to base your "facts" on one phone tested by CR (where did they get it from?) and a statement from Apple themselves, which is more than a little odd in several ways.

Tell you what, if CR goes out and buys a dozen phones from different vendors, from all over the US, tests them, and comes out with the same results, I'll put some faith in what they find out. How's that? That's not unusual for them, they've done that sort of thing before.

What's clear here is that you don't have sense enough to realize that your criticism of CR testing just "one phone" also renders your conclusion that there is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 6's based upon a couple of YouTube videos null and void.

I encourage everyone in the thread to look at this video of the CR test for themselves here ...

iPhone 6 And 6 Plus Bend Test - Consumer Reports News

Additionally, SquareTrade which is one of the largest 3-party extended warranty providers comes to this conclusion:

The verdict is in: You can bend an iPhone 6 Plus. But unless you are really trying to do it, it probably will be fine.

That's the conclusion coming out of phone warranty provider and durability tester SquareTrade, which ran some basic bending "tests" this week on the iPhone 6 Plus at The Washington Post's request after reports circulated that the 5.5-inch phone is warping from the strain of being in people's pockets.

To judge the phone's durability in more routine situations, the company also ran a "skinny jeans" test, to see if the device would bend under the strain of being wedged in a tight pocket, a claim made on several Apple online forums.

SquareTrade sought out an employee wearing skinny jeans -- in this case, Pourmeh Sarram, who is 5' 10" and helpfully told The Post that he has a 31-inch waist. Sarram wedged the phone in his jeans pockets. Then SquareTrade had him sit in an office chair for 30 minutes with the phone in his front jeans pocket -- mirroring a situation that a user described in a widely-circulated MacRumors post.

Sarram said this was "very uncomfortable." SquareTrade also asked Sarram to do 10 squats with the phone in his pocket. But none of these situations managed to bend the phone in any way.

So, yes, the phone can bend. But at least from these "tests," you really have to be trying to bend it in order to do any noticeable damage.

That's not to say the photos of severely bent iPhones circulating under the "#bendgate" hashtag on Wednesday were faked or doctored. But there's no way to independently verify whether the phones really warped during normal use or if people bent them purposefully and then claimed a defect. But at least for SquareTrade, whose whole business is assessing the risk of phone damage, iPhone bending is not something it thinks will happen often. And, Shay said, the company is unlikely to add a bendability exercise to its normal battery of tests any time soon.

"My opinion is that this is an edge case," he said. In looking through the dozens of insurance claims already filed on the iPhone 6 Plus -- yes, just a few days after its launch, people have already dropped them on the sidewalk, or immersed them in water -- there have been no claims about bending.

No, you probably can’t bend the iPhone 6 Plus. Unless you’re a bodybuilder. - The Washington Post

As I stated earlier, trying to sit down or bend over with a big ass phablet in the front pocket of jeans that can't comfortably accommodate its size is simply NOT a good idea. But even then the iPhone 6+ seems to withstand such routine idiocy. So if your iPhone 6+ has been damaged from doing this then either you are one of those "edge cases" with a defective unit or you have simply chosen to exhibit a special kind of stupid. Take your pick.

OAW

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by starman 

No, the issue is that there is no issue.

Agreed.

FWIW, given we're still in the 'launch window', and that "bendgate" has pretty much passed, i wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being another fandroid-fueled-'gate'-frenzy.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Like you saying how people should just carry their phones in their sports coat? Well, you may not realize this, but not nearly as many people wear jackets as they do pants. And they carry their phones in their pants pockets. If the phone fits in the pants pocket (the 6+ does with most men), but can't reliably be carried that way, something is wrong with it.

Clearly reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

Originally Posted by OAW

I still have an iPhone 5. Prior to that I had a 4, 3G, and the original iPhone. In all these years I have NEVER put an iPhone in my back pocket. It's just too easy to forget it's there, take a seat, and make a really bad day for yourself. If I'm carrying it around I will slip it in my front pocket while I'm up and about. But even then I RARELY leave it there when sitting. An iPhone 5 in my front pocket just isn't comfortable while seated and it generally gets taken out pretty quickly. So I can't even imagine putting an iPhone 6 in there and God forbid an iPhone 6 Plus! My inside pocket on a jacket/blazer is the best place to keep it ... and if I'm not wearing one I just keep it in my hand or put it on the table.

Anyone can see for themselves that my statement was simply a declaration of my personal preference for carrying my iPhone. It was NOT any sort of statement about what everyone else should do. Because there are several options for safely carrying an iPhone 6+. The only thing that I have been saying was that sitting down with a big ass phablet in a front pocket that it does NOT fit into is simply not a good idea. Yet you persist in contending with me about something so basic. Which is a prime example of the saying ...

"Common sense isn't always that common."



OAW

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

What's clear here is that you don't have sense enough to realize that your criticism of CR testing just "one phone" also renders your conclusion that there is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 6's based upon a couple of YouTube videos null and void.

I encourage everyone in the thread to look at this video of the CR test for themselves here ...

iPhone 6 And 6 Plus Bend Test - Consumer Reports News

Additionally, SquareTrade which is one of the largest 3-party extended warranty providers comes to this conclusion:

No, you probably can’t bend the iPhone 6 Plus. Unless you’re a bodybuilder. - The Washington Post

As I stated earlier, trying to sit down or bend over with a big ass phablet in the front pocket of jeans that can't comfortably accommodate its size is simply NOT a good idea. But even then the iPhone 6+ seems to withstand such routine idiocy. So if your iPhone 6+ has been damaged from doing this then either you are one of those "edge cases" with a defective unit or you have simply chosen to exhibit a special kind of stupid. Take your pick.

OAW

More insults from you, just because someone disagrees? Quit doing that, all it does is make you a bully, like you're in grade school all over again. It isn't morally offensive or evil to disagree, but that's the way you behave, trying to belittle and anger me for no reason other than to try and break me down so that you can seem taller. Yeah, I know what you're doing, even if you don't, and over the years you and a few others around here have turned it into your own twisted form of recreation. FYI, you aren't going to piss me off, it isn't within your ability because it isn't within the boundaries I've set for MacNN.

The thing is, I don't want you to be kicked from this forum, and just because I don't agree with or particularly like you doesn't mean that you shouldn't exist here. In the past I've pleaded for others who not to be shown the door, in spite of their hostile or abusive behavior (ask the mods if you have any doubts about that), it's just a forum but I've been here long enough for it to be a sort of special place for me, and even though I've long since left other places since I started posting here, I keep coming back. Why? Not because everyone gets along, but because there's an interesting cross section of personality types that this community comprises. So, even though I don't agree with everyone, like I could in other more curated areas online, the input and opinions on various topics has value to me. In fact, a few conversations around here have changed my perspective on important subjects, shifting my own point of view. Maybe if you tried looking at other views in a different light you could find more value in them too, and not see them as some enemy that you need to defeat and assimilate.


Anyhow, regarding the iP6+, I don't see it as a simple, "People who hate Apple are just trying to make them look bad." (I'm a major skeptic WRT to nearly everything.) I think people aren't asking the right questions. A non-body builder, in fact he looks like a rather nerdy guy of regular build, has bent 2 of them on camera; once with moderate effort and once with less. How is he doing that? Is he tried numerous examples until he found a couple of "weak" ones? That's plausible. I'm going to disregard the muscle-bound dude on video shown desperately trying to bend one, because it's a lot easier to fake not being able to do something than it is to do it. My little girl only weighs 27lbs but it doesn't take much for me to make a big show of her weighing a lot more, straining and acting out of breath. Apple's statement is odd to me as well, because I don't feel the reaction fits the stated tiny number of incidents.

That leaves us with the CR tests. If we can ask how many phones the guy in the video tried, then it stands to reason we can do the same with them. Was that the best result of numerous iP6 attempts, but they aren't owning up to them? I'm not saying that, but they also didn't disclose where the phone came from, and as I said before, a single phone doesn't mean very much, especially not when in other areas of testing they'll go through numerous examples.

I'll admit it isn't the first time I've had doubts regarding CR, their reviews of Craftsman tools used to be almost overworldly, like the things were made of uru and were forged by the gods in the heart of a dying star. But after Sears started to have severe financial problems, their tools started having "durability issues", causing them to slip in their ratings. Personally, I have a lot of tools from them, both old and new, and I can't tell any difference between them, except that the recently purchased ones are more shiny and less dinged up. Does that mean that CR is untrustworthy? No, not necessarily, but I do believe that they can be swayed by perception of the company, and frankly speaking there are few companies in the world who are wealthier and more powerful than Apple.

People who strongly approve of something will effortlessly set aside skepticism, and by the same token, those who hate a thing will look for excuses to berate and put it down. That's all common sense. However, I'm not saying the iP6 is garbage, or even a bad product, but I am saying that there appears to be a design flaw with making a phone that thin, especially considering the tech available, and I don't believe that the extra thinness is worth it. Then there's also the bulging camera, the comparatively meager amount of RAM, and its shorter battery life, so the thing isn't perfect by any stretch, it's simply "very good"... and saying that doesn't mean I'm an awful, terrible, no good, very bad person.

[The Final Dakar]

Is this a bad time to admit I mostly started this thread because the term "bendghazi" amused me a lot more than the bending reports concerned me?

[subego]

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Clearly reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.



Anyone can see for themselves that my statement was simply a declaration of my personal preference for carrying my iPhone. It was NOT any sort of statement about what everyone else should do. Because there are several options for safely carrying an iPhone 6+. The only thing that I have been saying was that sitting down with a big ass phablet in a front pocket that it does NOT fit into is simply not a good idea. Yet you persist in contending with me about something so basic. Which is a prime example of the saying ...

"Common sense isn't always that common."



OAW

A blazer IS a sport coat (also called a suit jacket or at times a jacket coat), or at least it is in most parts of the USA. And carrying a phone around in your hand all day is just a good way to drop it regularly, or forget it and leave it on a table somewhere.

Also, I'm saying that if the phone does fit, even if it does peak out a little from the top of some pockets, it's okay. and the phone should be able to handle it with ease. If it doesn't, well, it's flawed.

[starman]

Idiots are destroying iPhones at Apple Stores to prove they can bend | The Verge

EDIT: This is the kind of fallout that happens when people try to perpetuate a bullshit story.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by starman 

Idiots are destroying iPhones at Apple Stores to prove they can bend | The Verge

EDIT: This is the kind of fallout that happens when people try to perpetuate a bullshit story.

Pranksters got people to microwave phones to recharge them. It's amazing what people will do.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Pranksters got people to microwave phones to recharge them. It's amazing what people will do.

I thought that 'prank' was pretty malicious, and potentially dangerous.

Never seen such behavior from the Apple/Mac/iOS community.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

More insults from you, just because someone disagrees?

What you consider to be an "insult" I consider to be an "observation". Again, the only position that I'm taking here is that if the iPhone 6+ does not fit into one's front pocket ... then sitting down with it in there anyway is deliberately choosing to exhibit a "special kind of stupid". This is simple common sense ... which when defied can have consequences and repercussions of the negative variety. So if the shoe fits ...

That being said, I've also made it quite clear that if the iPhone 6+ does fit into one's front pocket ... then sitting down with it in there will not be an issue. In fact, just 10 minutes ago I was helping one of our IT support guys configure an iPhone 6+ for one of the business unit managers. Being the only Mac user in an all Windows environment has led me to being the unofficial Apple guru around here. It was my first time actually holding one. Definitely a "big ass phablet" ... but not the monster that I imagined. Build quality was excellent as is typical for Apple. But for me personally while it was not as unwieldy as I thought it might be, it was still a tad too unwieldy for my tastes. It just didn't feel very comfortable to hold and use one-handed and it seemed like an accidental drop waiting to happen. YMMV of course. In any event, my point here is that I slipped it into the front pocket of the jeans that I happen to have on and it fit just fine. So naturally when I sat down with it in my front pocket there was no issue at all. No strain. No pressure. Nothing! Of course, if I tried to put that same phone in some of the other jeans I own where the front pockets aren't as deep then that would be a completely different ball of wax. So consequently, I would have sense enough to NOT do that. Again, if it doesn't fit ... why force it?

You seem to be under the impression that my position is that one can never put the iPhone 6+ in the front pocket of one's jeans. And that is simply not the case in the slightest. All I'm saying is that one should exercise good judgement when deciding whether or not to do sit down with it in the front pocket of a given pair of jeans. And insisting that one should be able to sit down with it in the front pocket of any pair of jeans ... regardless of whether or not it actually fits ... is simply not exercising good judgement.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The thing is, I don't want you to be kicked from this forum, and just because I don't agree with or particularly like you doesn't mean that you shouldn't exist here.

You say I seem to have anger management issues. Which is typical because you wouldn't be the first white dude to conflate "intensity" and "directness" when expressing one's position as "anger" when it's coming from someone who's black. A white guy does it and he's being "assertive". A black guy does the same thing and he's being "aggressive". A woman does it and she's being a "bitch". Yeah, I'm quite familiar with how that little game is played.

OTOH, I say you seem to have issues with delusions of grandeur. But of course, opinions are like assholes right? So whether or not you "like" me is of no consequence whatsoever. So while this is technically not the PWL ... let's not forget that you were the first to take issue with my position. Repeatedly. And it's not as if there is some sort of clear demarcation between the PWL and the regular Lounge around here anyway. So once you chose to bring contention into the mix directed at me individually it becomes a debate forum AFAIC. Which is all about stating and defending one's position with facts, evidence, and a sound argument. And dismantling your opponent's position with the same. Debate is an intellectual contact sport. So if you can't handle being on the field then there's plenty of room for you on the bench.

As for me being "kicked from this forum" let's just say that I've been around here since 2001. And in all that time I've incurred a grand total of ONE infraction. So I think I'll be quite alright thank you very much. And if not ... whatever. While I enjoy the interaction around here it's certainly not like my life revolves around this forum.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Anyhow, regarding the iP6+, I don't see it as a simple, "People who hate Apple are just trying to make them look bad." (I'm a major skeptic WRT to nearly everything.) I think people aren't asking the right questions. A non-body builder, in fact he looks like a rather nerdy guy of regular build, has bent 2 of them on camera; once with moderate effort and once with less. How is he doing that? Is he tried numerous examples until he found a couple of "weak" ones? That's plausible. I'm going to disregard the muscle-bound dude on video shown desperately trying to bend one, because it's a lot easier to fake not being able to do something than it is to do it. My little girl only weighs 27lbs but it doesn't take much for me to make a big show of her weighing a lot more, straining and acting out of breath. Apple's statement is odd to me as well, because I don't feel the reaction fits the stated tiny number of incidents.

What does ANY of this have to do with what I've said to you?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That leaves us with the CR tests. If we can ask how many phones the guy in the video tried, then it stands to reason we can do the same with them. Was that the best result of numerous iP6 attempts, but they aren't owning up to them? I'm not saying that, but they also didn't disclose where the phone came from, and as I said before, a single phone doesn't mean very much, especially not when in other areas of testing they'll go through numerous examples.

I'll admit it isn't the first time I've had doubts regarding CR, their reviews of Craftsman tools used to be almost overworldly, like the things were made of uru and were forged by the gods in the heart of a dying star. But after Sears started to have severe financial problems, their tools started having "durability issues", causing them to slip in their ratings. Personally, I have a lot of tools from them, both old and new, and I can't tell any difference between them, except that the recently purchased ones are more shiny and less dinged up. Does that mean that CR is untrustworthy? No, not necessarily, but I do believe that they can be swayed by perception of the company, and frankly speaking there are few companies in the world who are wealthier and more powerful than Apple.

I'll say this one mo' gin. If a limited testing sample by CR means their conclusion has limited credibility with you ... then applying that same standard to the limited examples of people bending iPhones should result in the same characterization of the conclusion you reached that there is some sort of "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 6's. That would only be the intellectually honest thing to do right?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

People who strongly approve of something will effortlessly set aside skepticism, and by the same token, those who hate a thing will look for excuses to berate and put it down. That's all common sense. However, I'm not saying the iP6 is garbage, or even a bad product, but I am saying that there appears to be a design flaw with making a phone that thin, especially considering the tech available, and I don't believe that the extra thinness is worth it. Then there's also the bulging camera, the comparatively meager amount of RAM, and its shorter battery life, so the thing isn't perfect by any stretch, it's simply "very good"... and saying that doesn't mean I'm an awful, terrible, no good, very bad person.

No one has said anything of the sort about you. So please stop the whining. It's not a good look.

You say there "appears to be a design flaw" based on a handful of examples ... the most high profile of which are knuckleheads intentionally trying to bend the iPhone 6+. You insist upon coming to this conclusion even when the flawed reasoning that it takes to get there is pointed out to you. You don't address the criticism of your argument with an actual counter-argument. You just dismiss it out of hand and simply repeat your assertion. So don't take it personal. The intellects I respect the most around here ... which for the record are mostly people I typically disagree with ... are individuals who don't routinely do this. Because they understand that this is a debate forum and play by the rules of the game accordingly.

Now if for you this is just a forum for you to rattle off one's opinions then that's cool. Just let me know. Because then I won't waste my time trying to "debate" with someone when all they are doing is just "talking".

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

A blazer IS a sport coat (also called a suit jacket or at times a jacket coat), or at least it is in most parts of the USA.

Is there a particular reason you feel the need to try to "educate" me on this topic? Did I say anything whatsoever to give you the impression that I didn't already know this?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

And carrying a phone around in your hand all day is just a good way to drop it regularly, or forget it and leave it on a table somewhere.

Well I don't drop my iPhone regularly nor do I forget it on tables. But again, I was merely stating my personal preference of what works for me. As always YMMV.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Also, I'm saying that if the phone does fit, even if it does peak out a little from the top of some pockets, it's okay. and the phone should be able to handle it with ease. If it doesn't, well, it's flawed.

OMG you really do like to argue a point that's not in dispute don't you? How many times do I have to say that if "the phone does fit" .... then there is no issue?

Now "Peaking out a little from the top" is one thing. "Hanging out a little from the top" is quite another. The former will not result in any undue pressure on the device when seated. The latter most certainly will because it would be jamming up against one's torso. According to SquareTrade's testing sitting and bending with an iPhone 6 while wearing skinny jeans resulted in it being no worse for the wear even though it was described as being "uncomfortable". Which is what I would expect as well. Of course, it doesn't specifically say whether that discomfort was due to the tight fit or the phone pressing against the torso and the bottom of the pocket simultaneously. All I'm saying is that if it's the latter then intentionally subjecting your iPhone 6+ to that type of sustained pressure doesn't make a lot of sense. #1 ... it would start of being most uncomfortable and likely end up hurting like hell over extended periods. So set the issue of the smartphone aside. WTF would you do that to yourself? But #2 ... if you insist then knock yourself out! My position is that it's not a reasonable expectation to think that it should never suffer any damage in that scenario. Just like it's not a reasonable expectation to think that it would never bend if one intentionally tries to bend it for over 10 minutes in an Apple Store like those two "geniuses" just did. And then posted a video of them committing a property crime and calling each other by name all over the internet.

The issue isn't whether or not someone can bend an iPhone 6 with their bare hands. Just about anyone who is strong enough can intentionally bend any smartphone on the market if they try hard and long enough. On the contrary, the issue is whether or not an iPhone 6+ will bend under "normal wear and tear" scenarios. Let me give an analogy. It's certainly reasonable to expect that an iPhone can sustain a few moments of getting wet. For example, accidentally dropping it on the ground while it's raining outside and then quickly picking it up. But to say that it should be able to lay on the ground in the rain for an hour and suffer no damage is is simply not reasonable for a device that's not designed to be waterproof. That's simply not a "normal wear and tear" use case. Similarly, sitting down with an iPhone 6+ in a front pocket where it does NOT fit for extended periods of time is also NOT a "normal wear and tear" use case. If you disagree, I would ask you to make a counter-argument for why that should be considered "normal wear and tear". Given the obvious discomfort for the human involved.

OAW

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

You say I seem to have anger management issues. Which is typical because you wouldn't be the first white dude to conflate "intensity" and "directness" when expressing one's position as "anger" when it's coming from someone who's black. A white guy does it and he's being "assertive". A black guy does the same thing and he's being "aggressive". A woman does it and she's being a "bitch". Yeah, I'm quite familiar with how that little game is played.

Yes, you are being too aggressive, otherwise I wouldn't be getting PMs asking "are you okay?" or "what do you think is wrong with him?". Your race card has been misplayed too, because as I said, there were others on here (who aren't black) who liked to sling insults and shower abuse on me because I disagree with them. My advice is, get over it and drop the chip on your shoulder, this isn't Youtube.

OTOH, I say you seem to have issues with delusions of grandeur. But of course, opinions are like assholes right? So whether or not you "like" me is of no consequence whatsoever. So while this is technically not the PWL ... let's not forget that you were the first to take issue with my position. Repeatedly. And it's not as if there is some sort of clear demarcation between the PWL and the regular Lounge around here anyway. So once you chose to bring contention into the mix directed at me individually it becomes a debate forum AFAIC. Which is all about stating and defending one's position with facts, evidence, and a sound argument. And dismantling your opponent's position with the same. Debate is an intellectual contact sport. So if you can't handle being on the field then there's plenty of room for you on the bench.

You seem to be of the opinion that I'm doing the reporting, I'm not. Also, your distortion is showing, again, I stated my opinion and that drew the ire of the assembled Apple faithful, and frankly, if a phone is making you so upset and contentious where someone would need to be benched for a discussion about them, then you're way too invested in the subject.

As for me being "kicked from this forum" let's just say that I've been around here since 2001. And in all that time I've incurred a grand total of ONE infraction. So I think I'll be quite alright thank you very much. And if not ... whatever. While I enjoy the interaction around here it's certainly not like my life revolves around this forum.

I've seen it before with people who started before you and they aren't here anymore. Your level of hostility towards a differing opinion is unwarranted. If it gets to the point where you're calling someone "ugly" or "stupid" you're going over the line. I shouldn't have to be telling you that, but there it is.

What does ANY of this have to do with what I've said to you?

Read it again.

I'll say this one mo' gin. If a limited testing sample by CR means their conclusion has limited credibility with you ... then applying that same standard to the limited examples of people bending iPhones should result in the same characterization of the conclusion you reached that there is some sort of "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 6's. That would only be the intellectually honest thing to do right?

I already did that, in the post you quoted, no less. Once more, try reading it again.

No one has said anything of the sort about you. So please stop the whining. It's not a good look.

Obviously it's the case, given the way you're flipping your lid. Disagreeing isn't wrong or immoral, there's no evil involved in it, so quit treating it like it is.

You say there "appears to be a design flaw" based on a handful of examples ... the most high profile of which are knuckleheads intentionally trying to bend the iPhone 6+. You insist upon coming to this conclusion even when the flawed reasoning that it takes to get there is pointed out to you. You don't address the criticism of your argument with an actual counter-argument. You just dismiss it out of hand and simply repeat your assertion. So don't take it personal. The intellects I respect the most around here ... which for the record are mostly people I typically disagree with ... are individuals who don't routinely do this. Because they understand that this is a debate forum and play by the rules of the game accordingly.

Now if for you this is just a forum for you to rattle off one's opinions then that's cool. Just let me know. Because then I won't waste my time trying to "debate" with someone when all they are doing is just "talking".

OAW

Ah, see, as the admins pointedly told me 10 years ago, the Lounge isn't a "debate forum", it's for polite, calm discussion, like you would have in an actual lounge somewhere. Debate and spirited talks are for the PWL and it's one of the main reasons it was started. As for this subject, I've said what I'm going to say and stand by my opinion, if that doesn't suit you then you simply have to deal with it on your own.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Is there a particular reason you feel the need to try to "educate" me on this topic? Did I say anything whatsoever to give you the impression that I didn't already know this?

Well I don't drop my iPhone regularly nor do I forget it on tables. But again, I was merely stating my personal preference of what works for me. As always YMMV.

You say I base my statements solely on personal experiences, and then you do the same. So which is it?

OMG you really do like to argue a point that's not in dispute don't you? How many times do I have to say that if "the phone does fit" .... then there is no issue?

Obviously there's an issue if phones are bending in pockets, because if it doesn't fit, the phone wouldn't be in the pocket to begin with.

Now "Peaking out a little from the top" is one thing. "Hanging out a little from the top" is quite another. The former will not result in any undue pressure on the device when seated. The latter most certainly will because it would be jamming up against one's torso. According to SquareTrade's testing sitting and bending with an iPhone 6 while wearing skinny jeans resulted in it being no worse for the wear even though it was described as being "uncomfortable". Which is what I would expect as well. Of course, it doesn't specifically say whether that discomfort was due to the tight fit or the phone pressing against the torso and the bottom of the pocket simultaneously. All I'm saying is that if it's the latter then intentionally subjecting your iPhone 6+ to that type of sustained pressure doesn't make a lot of sense. #1 ... it would start of being most uncomfortable and likely end up hurting like hell over extended periods. So set the issue of the smartphone aside. WTF would you do that to yourself? But #2 ... if you insist then knock yourself out! My position is that it's not a reasonable expectation to think that it should never suffer any damage in that scenario. Just like it's not a reasonable expectation to think that it would never bend if one intentionally tries to bend it for over 10 minutes in an Apple Store like those two "geniuses" just did. And then posted a video of them committing a property crime and calling each other by name all over the internet.

The issue isn't whether or not someone can bend an iPhone 6 with their bare hands. Just about anyone who is strong enough can intentionally bend any smartphone on the market if they try hard and long enough. On the contrary, the issue is whether or not an iPhone 6+ will bend under "normal wear and tear" scenarios. Let me give an analogy. It's certainly reasonable to expect that an iPhone can sustain a few moments of getting wet. For example, accidentally dropping it on the ground while it's raining outside and then quickly picking it up. But to say that it should be able to lay on the ground in the rain for an hour and suffer no damage is is simply not reasonable for a device that's not designed to be waterproof. That's simply not a "normal wear and tear" use case. Similarly, sitting down with an iPhone 6+ in a front pocket where it does NOT fit for extended periods of time is also NOT a "normal wear and tear" use case. If you disagree, I would ask you to make a counter-argument for why that should be considered "normal wear and tear". Given the obvious discomfort for the human involved.

In none of the pics you posted is the phone "hanging out of the top", I regularly see kids walking around with phones peaking out, like in that image and I don't see why that's a problem.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Yes, you are being too aggressive, otherwise I wouldn't be getting PMs asking "are you okay?" or "what do you think is wrong with him?". Your race card has been misplayed too, because as I said, there were others on here (who aren't black) who liked to sling insults and shower abuse on me because I disagree with them. My advice is, get over it and drop the chip on your shoulder, this isn't Youtube.

Yeah. Uh huh. I've made it abundantly clear that your credibility is somewhat negligible at best AFAIC. I've observed your conversation over time. And I'm making no exaggeration when I say that if a thread was started tomorrow about a guy who invented a working fusion engine ... I'd bet my next paycheck that you'd find some way to claim that you knew the scientist in question or somehow was associated with someone on the team. If someone started a thread next week about some new car that hit the streets you will claim to already have one sitting in your garage. Now as I said before, I could be wrong about you. Anything is possible. And against all odds all of the "inside information" you claim to be privy to could actually be true. But you'll have to excuse me if I go with my gut on this until shown otherwise. So with that being said, you do realize that all of this about these supposed PM's is real easy to claim now isn't it? Especially since you have a ready-made excuse to never show and prove right?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

You seem to be of the opinion that I'm doing the reporting, I'm not. Also, your distortion is showing, again, I stated my opinion and that drew the ire of the assembled Apple faithful, and frankly, if a phone is making you so upset and contentious where someone would need to be benched for a discussion about them, then you're way too invested in the subject.

The only one who is "upset" is you ... because YOU are the one going on about "design flaws" and what not. It's not about being the "Apple faithful". It's about common sense. You should try it some time. It won't hurt you. You might actually enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I've seen it before with people who started before you and they aren't here anymore. Your level of hostility towards a differing opinion is unwarranted. If it gets to the point where you're calling someone "ugly" or "stupid" you're going over the line. I shouldn't have to be telling you that, but there it is.

#1 ... I never called you "ugly". #2 ... I never called you "stupid". What I said was that if you CHOOSE to sit down with a big ass phablet in a pocket that it doesn't fit in then that is a stupid thing to DO. There's a big difference which I should not have to explain to you. So that's not a reflection of your innate intelligence. Because people toss simple common sense out the window all the time when it suits them.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I already did that, in the post you quoted, no less. Once more, try reading it again.

Yet interestingly enough you are STILL claiming there to be "design flaws" nevertheless. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Obviously it's the case, given the way you're flipping your lid. Disagreeing isn't wrong or immoral, there's no evil involved in it, so quit treating it like it is.

Again making assertions about my "emotional state" that you have absolutely no way of knowing one way or the other. Perhaps at some point you will finally put 2 and 2 together and it might actually dawn upon you why I clap back at you the way that I do.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Ah, see, as the admins pointedly told me 10 years ago, the Lounge isn't a "debate forum", it's for polite, calm discussion, like you would have in an actual lounge somewhere. Debate and spirited talks are for the PWL and it's one of the main reasons it was started. As for this subject, I've said what I'm going to say and stand by my opinion, if that doesn't suit you then you simply have to deal with it on your own.

10 years ago was another lifetime on MacNN. You know ... people actually posted on the various forums around here on the regular. Clearly that's not the case anymore as the center of gravity is the now the Lounge and the PWL and the other forums are borderline ghost towns. Case in point ... if you want to go there then this very thread is more suited for the iPhone, iPad, & iPod forum ... n'est-ce pas? So as I said before ... you chose to get contentious with me about the topic. Repeatedly. A little fact you haven't disputed I might add.

The thing you need to realize Shaddim is that you don't "anger" me in the slightest. The fact of the matter is that you "amuse" me. Much like Crash did in days gone by. Your lightweight arguments and tactics remind me a lot of him. Just saying ...

OAW

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Yeah. Uh huh. I've made it abundantly clear that your credibility is somewhat negligible at best AFAIC. I've observed your conversation over time. And I'm making no exaggeration when I say that if a thread was started tomorrow about a guy who invented a working fusion engine ... I'd bet my next paycheck that you'd find some way to claim that you knew the scientist in question or somehow was associated with someone on the team. If someone started a thread next week about some new car that hit the streets you will claim to already have one sitting in your garage. Now as I said before, I could be wrong about you. Anything is possible. And against all odds all of the "inside information" you claim to be privy to could actually be true. But you'll have to excuse me if I go with my gut on this until shown otherwise. So with that being said, you do realize that all of this about these supposed PM's is real easy to claim now isn't it? Especially since you have a ready-made excuse to never show and prove right?

The only one who is "upset" is you ... because YOU are the one going on about "design flaws" and what not. It's not about being the "Apple faithful". It's about common sense. You should try it some time. It won't hurt you. You might actually enjoy it.

#1 ... I never called you "ugly". #2 ... I never called you "stupid". What I said was that if you CHOOSE to sit down with a big ass phablet in a pocket that it doesn't fit in then that is a stupid thing to DO. There's a big difference which I should not have to explain to you. So that's not a reflection of your innate intelligence. Because people toss simple common sense out the window all the time when it suits them.

Yet interestingly enough you are STILL claiming there to be "design flaws" nevertheless. Imagine that.

Again making assertions about my "emotional state" that you have absolutely no way of knowing one way or the other. Perhaps at some point you will finally put 2 and 2 together and it might actually dawn upon you why I clap back on you the way that I do.

10 years ago was another lifetime on MacNN. You know ... people actually posted on the various forums around here on the regular. Clearly that's not the case anymore as the center of gravity is the now the Lounge and the PWL and the other forums are borderline ghost towns. Case in point ... if you want to go there then this very thread is more suited for the iPhone, iPad, & iPod forum ... n'est-ce pas? So as I said before ... you chose to get contentious with me about the topic. Repeatedly. A little fact you haven't disputed I might add.

The thing you need to realize Shaddim is that you don't "anger" me in the slightest. The fact of the matter is that you "amuse" me. Much like Crash did in days gone by. Your lightweight arguments and tactics remind me a lot of him. Just saying ...

OAW

suit yourself

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

You say I base my statements solely on personal experiences, and then you do the same. So which is it?

The difference is that when I spoke about my personal preferences for carrying my iPhone I didn't translate that into some sweeping statement about what other people should do. Nor did I make some blanket condemnation of the product and its supposed "design flaws" based upon a couple of freaking YouTube videos. Quite unlike yourself.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

In none of the pics you posted is the phone "hanging out of the top", I regularly see kids walking around with phones peaking out, like in that image and I don't see why that's a problem.

You know what Shaddim? I fully recognize that at some point continuing to debate the obvious with a grown ass man becomes counter-productive. It just starts to result in increasingly diminishing returns ... even with respect to the "amusement" factor. So you keep rolling with that one buddy.

OAW

[andi*pandi]

Women's pockets are sometimes absurdly small, so as to be non-functional, or purely decorative.

My purse has a nice phone pocket though.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Women's pockets are sometimes absurdly small, so as to be non-functional, or purely decorative.

My purse has a nice phone pocket though.

You're absolutely right, even the regular iP6 won't fit in some ladies' pants pockets, no matter how hard they push. I envy the broad social acceptability you enjoy of being able to carry a purse, though. Even though I take my messenger bag with me a lot of places, it isn't really quite as useful as an everyday-carry-type bag. (Yeah, my wife sometimes needles me over my "man purse". )

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

The difference is that when I spoke about my personal preferences for carrying my iPhone I didn't translate that into some sweeping statement about what other people should do. Nor did I make some blanket condemnation of the product and its supposed "design flaws" based upon a couple of freaking YouTube videos. Quite unlike yourself.

As is often the case, we often see our situations as different, even though they usually aren't.

You know what Shaddim? I fully recognize that at some point continuing to debate the obvious with a grown ass man becomes counter-productive. It just starts to result in increasingly diminishing returns ... even with respect to the "amusement" factor. So you keep rolling with that one buddy.

IMO, the first pic possibly, but unless something is in a precarious position, like about to fall out of the pocket on its own, I wouldn't classify it as "hanging". But women generally carry a purse with them, which is a lot more convenient for that sort of thing.

The rest of that goes into the "whatever" pile. Frankly, I've never been able to figure out what you have to be so arrogant about.

[unicast reversepath]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

a discussion is a "trollfest"? Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they're trolling. IMO, trolling would include, I don't know... something like personal attacks and name-calling, out of the blue.

Yes - exactly what I was referring to. Personal attacks and name-calling is trollish behavior - with or without the 'out of the blue' qualifier, unless personal attacks and name-calling are normally allowed in the MacNN lounge.

I was also exaggerating and being sarcastic, so there's that, too.


ps - relax, Dude - its only a message board on the internet.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's not about sitting on the phone, the issue is sitting with the phone in your front pocket.

That's the thing...

If someone is bending it in their front pocket under normal usage conditions, then they're wearing the skinniest skinny jeans I've ever seen in my life, and doing hundreds of lunges per day (despite being unable to bend their legs).

I just don't buy it.

[unicast reversepath]

Has the train left the track on this thread or what??

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

That's the thing...

If someone is bending it in their front pocket under normal usage conditions, then they're wearing the skinniest skinny jeans I've ever seen in my life, and doing hundreds of lunges per day (despite being unable to bend their legs).

I just don't buy it.

Apparently they are bending, because people are bringing them in to the extent that Apple released a NQA exchange policy within just a few days. Personally, I think it's likely an issue with batch material quality consistency, some are substantially weaker than others. When you're making 10s of millions of a thing, QC issues can happen. Compound that with Apple's compulsion for thinness which, IMO, created a point that's more prone to failure under the volume rocker and you have a potential problem. I don't believe that it's something most will encounter, but some will, and already have. Should this dissuade people from buying it? No, I don't believe so, because even if you are one of the uncommon few, at least Apple's owned up to it by issuing the aforementioned NQA policy.

[Jawbone54]

Let's hug it out, bros.

[andi*pandi]

The solution, for everyone, is obviously mom jeans. Big pockets for everyone!

[osiris]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

The solution, for everyone, is obviously mom jeans. Big pockets for everyone!

Simple solution - Mom jeans. I like that.
I was just thinking about this cause my wife can barely fit a finger in her jean pocket, nevermind a behemoth phone of monolithic proportions.

[starman]

It's funny to hear people talking about short pockets. I wear Levi's and don't have a single problem with pocket size. This whole argument is completely lost on me (and I'm laughing. Hard).

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

As is often the case, we often see our situations as different, even though they usually aren't.

You know what Shaddim? The funny thing is that this is very often true.

Which is why it is puzzling when you choose to persist in being contentious with me even when I'm agreeing with you. It's like you refuse to take "yes" for an answer!

So here's the deal. I really don't want to play some sort of semantic game with you on the nuances between "peeking" vs "hanging" out the top of the pocket. As I've stated REPEATEDLY ... if an iPhone 6+ is coming up bent while in someone's front pocket it is because of the simultaneous upward pressure from the bottom of the pocket and downward pressure from the torso being applied to the device. Obviously this would never be the case while standing ... so it can only be happening as a result of sitting down over an extended period of time ... or bending over rather forcefully. I mean seriously ... what else could it be? It's not because someone's skinny jeans are too tight on a smartphone that's laying flat along the thigh. And it damned sure isn't melting! So if the iPhone 6+ "fits" in one's front pocket that means one will be able to sit down or bend over with it in there and NOT have it jam into one's torso (e.g. the pelvic bone). Period. And if that is the case then there is no issue! So have at it and do your thing ... no worries! But if it DOES jam into one's torso when you sit down or bend over then it really doesn't "fit" and one runs the risk of damaging one's device. Now wouldn't you agree that the more the iPhone 6+ ummm ... "extends" beyond the opening of one's front pocket the more likely it is to get jammed up like this?

Now when I said this I was by no means "speaking out of turn". There was nothing particularly "controversial" about that position. It was certainly not any sort of "grand insight" or "novel concept" on my part. It was just simple "common sense"! But I had to be the "angry man" when I said that to you. I needed to "find help". When I referred to those comments as "deflection at its finest" you doubled down with "QQ angry man, QQ." I said "I have neither the time nor the inclination to take the bait" ... which actually was true at the time ... but I can be honest enough to acknowledge that eventually I did. So the question is can you be honest enough to acknowledge that the record reflects that you got three digs in that I let slide? Three metaphorical "jabs" that you threw BEFORE I finally became exasperated with all of that and came back with a "right cross". I then referenced the independent testing conducted by CR and stated my view that you were basically just "completely full of sh*t on the issue. And something tells me that I'm not alone in that assessment". But naturally you decided to play the victim and call all of that "personal attacks and name-calling, out of the blue." ... as if you had nothing to do with it! Completely oblivious to the role you played in escalating the situation.

So allow me to offer a suggestion on how you and I can get along much better on this forum. And naturally you can take it or leave it at your pleasure. Don't start none ... won't be none. It's just that simple! So let's agree to keep the conversation on the topic at hand and leave our personal opinions of each other out of it. Cool?

But anyway I digress. As I was saying it seems like you want to be contentious with me for its own sake. It's like if OAW says "2 + 2 = 4" you are simply inclined to try to argue me down that it's not! Case in point ....

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Originally Posted by OAW

OMG you really do like to argue a point that's not in dispute don't you? How many times do I have to say that if "the phone does fit" .... then there is no issue?

Obviously there's an issue if phones are bending in pockets, because if it doesn't fit, the phone wouldn't be in the pocket to begin with.

Now again, I've been clearly and consistently using the term "fit" to mean an iPhone 6+ that rests in the front pocket in such a manner that it does NOT jam into the torso when sitting or bending over. But earlier in the thread you were adamant that the iPhone 6+ should be able to go into ANY pocket regardless of whether or not it actually "fit" ...

Originally Posted by Shaddim

However, yes, if the phone were designed properly it should still be able to handle that pressure, even in that position. It should handle being carried in any pants pocket, because that's how most people carry them.

Originally Posted by Shaddim

They made a phone that fits in the pocket (even if the top sticks out a little in some shallower pockets), but doing so puts it at risk of being severely bent. It's flawed. That's where millions of people carry their phones and they should have allowed for that. EOD.

Remember??? But when I said that if it actually "fits" in the pocket there is "no issue" with it bending ... again a non-controversial statement that one would think would be a point of agreement ... you turned right around and said that there must be an issue because if it didn't "fit" it wouldn't be in the pocket to begin with. Huh??!!! I'm sorry ... but that just comes off as utterly contradictory to me. Now maybe I'm just interpreting your words incorrectly. That's possible. Because while I'm really good at this debate thing I'm by no means perfect. But it truly sounds like NOW you are basically trying to say that if it jammed into one's torso when sitting or bending over then "it wouldn't be in the pocket to begin with" ... therefore "obviously there's an issue if phones are bending in pockets" because they are apparently doing so even if it is NOT getting jammed. But BEFORE you were taking the position that the iPhone 6+ should be able to "handle that pressure" ... it should be able to be "carried in any pants pocket" .... jamming into one's torso while sitting or bending be damned! So if that's not what you are trying to say then provide some clarification on all this if you please. Cause right about now you seem a little all over the map dude. And at a minimum it would be helpful if we were at least both on the same page about each other's position.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

The solution, for everyone, is obviously mom jeans. Big pockets for everyone!

This!!!

OAW

[osiris]

Originally Posted by starman 

It's funny to hear people talking about short pockets. I wear Levi's and don't have a single problem with pocket size. This whole argument is completely lost on me (and I'm laughing. Hard).

yep, my Old Navy painter's pants could hold a frickin 17" MBP, however chick jeans like diesel are meant for show not cargo, apparently.

[OAW]

^^^^

Levi's makes really solid jeans. And some of the new models look really nice. But I probably haven't worn those since I was like ... 12. I guess I just can't get past that "Back to School" vibe that they always remind me of. Every pair of jeans I own is low-rise. Mostly straight leg. A few boot cuts. One slim fit. No skinny (sorry I'm a grown ass man ... just can't do it!). The mall store brands that I have like Banana Republic or Express have fairly deep pockets. The "designer" brands like True Religion or Mek Denim? Ummm ... not so much! The latter I'm usually rocking when I'm going out on the town or having a date night with the Mrs. And 9 times out of 10 I'm wearing a blazer with my "dressier" jeans so there's always that inside pocket. The pockets on my wife's jeans and even the regular iPhone 6? Fuggedaboutit!!!!

OAW

[Mike Wuerthele]

How about big-ass seams in phones, huh?

Early buyers: Galaxy Note 4 case gap large, business card fits in void | Electronista

[turtle777]

LOL, talk about some quality design.

This must look like shit.

-t

[Shaddim]

Yep, the Galaxy line of phones are pretty crappy, really (especially for a flagship device), at least the iP6 is much better than those.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by EstaNightshift 

How about big-ass seams in phones, huh?

Early buyers: Galaxy Note 4 case gap large, business card fits in void | Electronista

Needs a catchy scandal name.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Needs a catchy scandal name.

"The Gap". Oh yeah ... that's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.

OAW

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

[very long, rambling post]

replied in PM, so as not to further clutter this thread.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by starman 

It's funny to hear people talking about short pockets. I wear Levi's and don't have a single problem with pocket size. This whole argument is completely lost on me (and I'm laughing. Hard).

Yep, with my 501s (what I most often wear) there's ~1" of pocket to spare, and that's with the 6+.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

replied in PM, so as not to further clutter this thread.

No. You replied in PM so you could continue with your digs. Which would have been in poor form to do publicly after I had just tried to meet you halfway and squash all of this ...

Originally Posted by OAW

So allow me to offer a suggestion on how you and I can get along much better on this forum. And naturally you can take it or leave it at your pleasure. Don't start none ... won't be none. It's just that simple! So let's agree to keep the conversation on the topic at hand and leave our personal opinions of each other out of it. Cool?

And let's just say that was .... weak. Anyway you slice it. If you are going to slap away a peace offering made publicly then at least be man enough to do so publicly. So apparently you intend to "leave it". And that's fine. Nevertheless, I stand by what I said here. Every single word of it.

OAW

[Shaddim]

I don't have a single problem with posting here what I sent you in PM because there was no "dig" in it, just frank appraisal, but I didn't. I took it to PM because we have a personal beef with each other and it doesn't need to be in the open forums any longer. Keep it that way.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I don't have a single problem with posting here what I sent you in PM because there was no "dig" in it, just frank appraisal, but I didn't. I took it to PM because we have a personal beef with each other and it doesn't need to be in the open forums any longer. Keep it that way.

Yeah. Sure buddy.

In any event, in an attempt to squash this with you I cited how you had been pushing my buttons and how that was what led to me expressing my rather low opinion of you. You chose to push them even harder in PM. So call it whatever you want. As I just stated ... I stand by every word that I said in that peace offering. Now keep digging if you want to.

OAW

PS: Feel free to have the last word. Or just do us both a favor and kick rocks.

[Shaddim]

So, anyway, I'm pretty amazed with the gaming on the 6+, technically it's Kim's but I stole it from her (again) to do some benchmarks and ended up playing a few games on it. However, the thing gets like seriously warm, warm enough to surprise me when I touched the back.

[Face Ache]

Gamegate! Game generated heat bends iPhones!

[OAW]

^^^^

The funny thing is there are people actually claiming that the heat from the A8 Processor and the leg is causing the aluminum to be "pliable".

OAW

[OAW]

Psychic Uri Geller says he can bend iPhones with his mind - CNET

OAW

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Gamegate! Game generated heat bends iPhones!

That's it! Eureka!

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Psychic Uri Geller says he can bend iPhones with his mind - CNET

I beat 'em to that joke by 5 days.

[OAW]

^^^*

Awesome!

OAW