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OmniWeb 5.5? What is coming?
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I know they are building it, but what new, fun, cool things are they going to put into it?
What do you want?
BZ
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London/Plymouth, England
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I want a very speedy browser that doesn't crash nor die a death when looking at loads of pages. Plus one that makes my tea in the morning and cleans my feet.
Just a general update I reckon.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Word on the street is that Omni is working on making it compatible with the latest version of WebCore so that every time WebCore is updated, OmniWeb is, too. The trick is to not loose all of their fancy add-ons, which is apparently what they're doing right now.
If this is indeed true, we'll get the speed of Safari with the control of OmniWeb.
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Mac Elite
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every time WebCore is updated, OmniWeb is, too
I like that.
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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OmniGroup is being too coy about this.
FireFox 2.0 Alpha is coming out any day and Camino 1.0 just came out.
OmniDudes!!! Show us the way!
BZ
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
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There are no new features planned for 5.5 - it is simply an upgarde to WebKit from Webcore. It is taking time because WebKit wasn't/isn't capable of doing what OmniGroup's modified WebCore does. In case you missed it the last time it was posted, this message was posted by Ken Case on the OmniWeb mailing liston the 8th Jan 2006:
Hi all,
I just wanted to give you all a status update on OmniWeb 5.5.
First, some background: starting with OmniWeb 4.5, we've been using Apple's open source WebCore framework (based on khtml) as our rendering engine. Unfortunately (as you've all seen), WebCore doesn't have a stable API which means that (depending on how much has changed in WebCore) it can take quite a while to integrate new versions of WebCore when they're released.
Fortunately for us the picture changed in a big way last year at WWDC, when Apple opened up the rest of their WebKit source code: WebKit does have stable API, so applications built on top of it can upgrade to newer versions of WebKit without having to rewrite their code with each release. OmniWeb 5.5 will be the first version of OmniWeb to be based on WebKit rather than WebCore, taking advantage of all of the latest performance enhancements in Safari 2 as well as making it easier to stay on top of those changes in the future.
So, where are we now?
At this point, we have OmniWeb 5.5 running on top of a slightly customized WebKit, with our thumbnail tabs (except for a bug with loading frame sets in background tabs), workspaces, bookmarks, custom cookie handling, ad blocking (by ad size, third party sites, or regular expression), some of our site preferences (font style, inline images, JavaScript and Java and cookie controls, and the browser identification/masquerade setting), our source code editor, downloads, and our context menus.
We're still missing some of our mouse and keyboard interactions (you can't option-drag a link to drag out a window, click-hold a link to get a context menu, or click on a blocked ad to load it), zoomed editing, some site preferences (including animation controls), page info, activity monitor, authentication in the source view, password autofill, autocomplete, the ability to show HTTP requests, save as (single page) PDF, and probably some other things I'm forgetting.
In other words, we've made quite a bit of progress on quite a few of the major features of OmniWeb, but there's still a lot of work to do before 5.5 really feels like an upgrade to 5.1. (I've been trying to use 5.5 as my primary browser lately, but whenever I move from basic browsing to doing any sort of web work I end up switching back to 5.1. Fortunately, with persistent workspaces already implemented I'm able to switch back and forth without losing all my context.)
It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we get closer. Stay tuned!
Cheers,
Ken
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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What are the odds that OW 5.5 will abandon the drawer implementation for tabs in favor of a pane like Mail.app, Journler, iTunes, etc.?
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
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Hopefully none. A pane sucks as SafariStand demonstrates.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London/Plymouth, England
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just want it to emerge soon...
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Originally Posted by JKT
Hopefully none. A pane sucks as SafariStand demonstrates.
I've never used SafariStand, but I don't think that one example of an implementation that didn't work forecloses the possibility that the OmniGroup could implement the same idea in a way that works well. Are there specific aspects of the SafariStand implementation that you think don't work?
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
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It isn't the implementation - the flaws would be the same if OmniGroup did it with OW. It is simply far too cramped. Due to my toolbar, I'd lose at least a full tab from view if it was a pane. It would also make it more difficult to drag and drop things to the desktop or bring windows behind to the front as there would be no gaps top and bottom (and fwiw, I do use Exposé 99% of the time but there are occasions when I don't). I would also lose the ability to make my window go fullscreen just by hiding the drawer.
SafariStand is free so you may as well download it and try it out. It makes using Safari a lot more bearable and tries to implement most of OmniWeb's features in Safari. Not a bad effort but still a long way short of OW, though.
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Well, if all that is in 5.5 is the webkit, OmniWeb is going to start to die a slow death.
The other browsers are just flying forward with speed and features while OmniWeb hangs behind, resting on some of them.
BZ
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Moving to a newer WebKit is "flying forward with speed and features."
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Addicted to MacNN
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It doesn't seem to me that OmniWeb is lacking in features. In fact, it is one of the most full-featured browsers available for OS X. The problem with OmniWeb is speed and rendering accuracy. Moving to the new WebKit will take care of that. Once that happens, OmniWeb will essentially be "Safari on steroids" ... much like Shiira is. At that point, it will come down to whether or not you like OmniWeb's tab implementation. And if you want to pay for it's feature set.
OAW
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2000
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OmniWeb will essentially be "Safari on steroids"
Well said. For me, OW has already been worth the money, so this will be icing on the cake.
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I think OmniWeb needs more than a few 2004 features to stand out and get people to buy it again (sales must be slipping). I say this as a long time owner and user of OmniWeb.
- Speed: It has to be AT LEAST as fast as Safari. At least.
- Better RSS. Something along the lines of Safari, although if they figured out a way to do a better "portal" type RSS feed look, that would be great (see http://www.netvibes.com).
- More bookmark features. Check for duplicates etc.
- More integration of features found in FireFox Extensions (auto-update, html code, more status reports).
Again, OmniWeb kicked ass last year, but people are catching up in all of their features.
BZ
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
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It would be nice to see some sort of Firefox plug-in compatibility, if possible, or at least the ability to point to online blacklists/whitelists for ad-blocking (a la Filterset.G updater).
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Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2002
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BZ hit the nail on the head. I've been a registered user of OmniWeb for years. I even have it installed right now. But it's increasingly painful to use due to its slowness. And given how much other browsers have caught up with it in terms of features, there's less and less motivation to use it at all.
Originally Posted by BZ
I think OmniWeb needs more than a few 2004 features to stand out and get people to buy it again (sales must be slipping). I say this as a long time owner and user of OmniWeb.
- Speed: It has to be AT LEAST as fast as Safari. At least.
- Better RSS. Something along the lines of Safari, although if they figured out a way to do a better "portal" type RSS feed look, that would be great (see http://www.netvibes.com).
- More bookmark features. Check for duplicates etc.
- More integration of features found in FireFox Extensions (auto-update, html code, more status reports).
Again, OmniWeb kicked ass last year, but people are catching up in all of their features.
BZ
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"Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." - Steve Jobs
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I have asked about the FireFox pluggins and that is not possible as they are a different code base.
OmniWeb could point to an online list though.
BZ
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
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OK, let's turn this thread into a what we would like to see in OmniWeb 6 to keep it ahead of the pack - in addition to the above:
1. A really good archiving feature.
2. Improved Workspace interface and management.
3. The ability to export/e-mail Workspaces for use by non-OW users (e.g. as a bookmark file or list of URLs).
4. A really good printing toolset so that you could choose what you want to print and rearrange things on the page in a preview to make sure everything prints OK.
5. An equivalent of the FireFox Web Developer extension built-in (this should probably happen with the switch to WebKit as it is already being added).
6. Nested tabs? Maybe if it worked. It seems like a good idea until you look at how much space it might require (see how iRider does it).
7. The "pinned" tabs is a nice feature from iRider too - I'd like the equivalent in OmniWeb.
8. While hovering the mouse over the tab, why not show a mid-sized preview of the page as well as its title?
9. The ability to export and share your blocked ads list.
10. Clean and colour coded formatting of CSS and Javascript as well as the HTML when using the reformat command in Source view.
11. A send page function like Safari's Mail contents of this page feature.
I'm sure there's more stuff I'd like to see, but can't recall it all at the moment...
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Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kuna, ID USA
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As the sole browser for X that I have to (and have) paid for, I am increasingly irritated that it has not been updated.
Shiira has come from the ground up since OW 5.1 was released. Granted it may not be as involved as OW, but seriously…
It's said, because OW is the UI/Feature king. It is neglected… as are it's customers.
T
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
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12. An equivalent to the private browsing feature of Safari.
13. The ability to be prompted for all cookies to be put back in as a preference...
14. An Autofill routine that actually works would also be nice.
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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I don't really miss any features in OW, it's powerful enough as it is, plus it has an excellent interface (love the thumbnail tabs!!) All I want is speed, nothing more. Hope they release the 5.5 soon. Even a public beta would be nice
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: a void where there should be ecstasy
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Why don't Omni just grab the Shiira source and continue developing that? Its already significantly more responsive than Safari, has more features and functions than Safari and has a far better Tabbed interface (for PowerBook users) than OW. Shiira is very stable 1.2.2
All Omni have to do is add their Add blocking, site preferences and JavaScript options, the rest is pretty much ready to roll. Added Bonus Shiira allows us to select a custom style sheet..something Omni have never bothered with providing.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Originally Posted by acollins
What are the odds that OW 5.5 will abandon the drawer implementation for tabs in favor of a pane like Mail.app, Journler, iTunes, etc.?
I have it on good authority this has not changed.
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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson, 1787
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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what about a release date then - more news on that by any chance?
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Addicted to MacNN
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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson, 1787
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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- shame I don't believe in gods......
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seaford, Virginia
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Originally Posted by JKT
OK, let's turn this thread into a what we would like to see in OmniWeb 6 to keep it ahead of the pack - in addition to the above:
1. A really good archiving feature.
2. Improved Workspace interface and management.
3. The ability to export/e-mail Workspaces for use by non-OW users (e.g. as a bookmark file or list of URLs).
4. A really good printing toolset so that you could choose what you want to print and rearrange things on the page in a preview to make sure everything prints OK.
5. An equivalent of the FireFox Web Developer extension built-in (this should probably happen with the switch to WebKit as it is already being added).
6. Nested tabs? Maybe if it worked. It seems like a good idea until you look at how much space it might require (see how iRider does it).
7. The "pinned" tabs is a nice feature from iRider too - I'd like the equivalent in OmniWeb.
8. While hovering the mouse over the tab, why not show a mid-sized preview of the page as well as its title?
9. The ability to export and share your blocked ads list.
10. Clean and colour coded formatting of CSS and Javascript as well as the HTML when using the reformat command in Source view.
11. A send page function like Safari's Mail contents of this page feature.
I'm sure there's more stuff I'd like to see, but can't recall it all at the moment...
12. Scratch'n'sniff capability.
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Can't we get someone from OmniGroup to step up and say something?
They used to be so chatty.
BZ
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Code now, chat later.
code
code
code
code
code
code
code
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I know it is crazy to have a company with coders AND marketing people.
BZ
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Bump for no luv from OmniGroup.
BZ
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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I wish there was some update news as well - just a hint will do
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Addicted to MacNN
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Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
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Originally Posted by Cadaver
Vaporware?
It is being worked on, but unfortunately it is securing the level of man power that befits their least profitable product.
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Mac Elite
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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5.1.3 is nice, but the reason we're talking about 5.5 is that it will have a new a much faster engine so it'll load the pages much much faster. Speed is the only thing OW5 lacks unfortunately - in every other respect it's way ahead of other browsers......
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Krypton
It is being worked on, but unfortunately it is securing the level of man power that befits their least profitable product.
I think one of the reasons it is their least profitable product is because the release schedule and enhancements have lagged behind all the other products.
BZ
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2003
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frankly, I'd buy ow if it became a lot quicker. and I love safari.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
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I have bought OW. But I'm using Safari now, because OW's rendering engine is a little too old, and the aformentioned speed issues. 5.5 should fix both... bring it on!
Amorya
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What the nerd community most often fail to realize is that all features aren't equal. A well implemented and well integrated feature in a convenient interface is worth way more than the same feature implemented crappy, or accessed through a annoying interface.
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Addicted to MacNN
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I bought a license for OW a long time ago myself. The feature set of OW can't be beat, but its way, way too slow and crash-prone for use.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Surprised no one has posted this yet, but Ken Case has notified the OmniWeb mailing list that OmniWeb 5.5 is (as of Friday just gone) in private beta testing.
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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where can I sign up for this??? If at all possible of course. Would love to try test it!!!
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Professional Poster
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I suspect that their list of private beta users is full already (as it is limited) but the fairly big hint as to where you can find out more was in my last post...
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Senior User
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Mac Elite
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Originally Posted by Macanoid
I spent all day trying to guess where the file itself would be, but I couldn't get it... Damn, I guess I'm just going to have to wait like everyone else.
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Addicted to MacNN
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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson, 1787
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: macsterdam
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Coudn't find it either - would love to try it!
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Mac Elite
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Yeah same here. Come on Omni guys, we wanna give OW 5.5 a spin. We promise to be law-abiding beta testers.
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