[Brien]

Yeah, it's like they were going "Look! LOOK! He's behind EVERYTHING!" and shoe-horned in the plot via flashbacks so it makes sense.

Although I still enjoy the show it feels like the writers never really had an overall idea of where to go with the show and now they're just trying to draw out the plot. And while having Peter's powers sucked out solved the 'he's too powerful' dilemma, knowing the way this show is in 3-4 episodes he'll have regained his powers and then some.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Well, after several weeks of good episodes, tonight was a hot mess. Did the writers get together and go, "Hey, let's ruin all our existing villains' credibility just to make Arthur Petrelli seem a little more threatening"?

Sylar already had a backstory episode in season 1, and it was really good. Why did they have to replace it with this emo slop?

Since when is Elle all sweet and sensitive? She's supposed to be a literal sociopath for crying out loud! Her father tortured her for years! And now she's all like, "Oh no, Sylar shouldn't hurt anybody, because violence isn't good for the soul!"

And then there's Linderman, who wasn't a terribly creative villain but was a passable evil mastermind, and now he's a bumbling henchman. "But—but—what do we do, Boss?!"

Also, not related to the villain decay, but how did Arthur kill Magic Black Guy? He was able to beat Hiro's time travel but he couldn't beat a guy whose only apparent offensive power is lightning?

This was a strange episode and it seems the writers (naturally) are trying to save themselves by doing some creative re-writing.

Arthur has all the powers of his son now, so he can do just about everything.

[Cold Warrior]

So Arthur is now all-powerful. They've just lurched between a wimpy Peter and a powerful, maturing Peter who embraces his destiny. Each season is like hitting the reset button for major character development, except maybe Noah and Sylar.

I'm also wondering whether Hiro was actually caught or if that's just a part of his dream (he woke up but maybe he's still really dreaming and will wake up for real next episode). Probably not though. Arthur is all-powerful so with all Peter's powers he may be able to get the slip on African Isaac.

[hyteckit]

Me likely. Thought they told the back story pretty well and answered a lot of questions.

Being able to see or paint the future doesn't you can change your fate. Issac Mendez wasn't able to change his fate even when he painted his own death. The African Issac Mendez didn't even paint his own death. They don't paint whatever they want to see. They paint whatever they see which is kinda random.

As for Elle and her attitude toward Sylar. I think Elle was able to relate to Sylar. Both had a single parent. Both looking for acceptance from their parent. Both wanted to be special and know the pressure of trying to be special.

By the way, the African Issac Mendez play a terrorist who blew up New York city, with his nuclear power scientist friend, in the original Heroes Pilot.

[Chuckit]

Man, another crap episode this week. "Hey, you know how experience has taught us that supreme badasses work well on this show and romance plots don't? Let's make Sylar and Elle the most sickeningly sweet couple we've ever had."

This isn't character development, it's Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[Demonhood]

the only good thing about this week's episode was that Hiro was finally behaving like a hero ("bad man!" *BLINK*). all it took was for him to be 10 years old and get a pep talk from Seth Green.

the rest? rubbish. they crammed 2 weeks worth of story into 43 minutes, sacrificing character development, sensible dialogue, and logic along the way. the episode could have been saved had it spanned two weeks and not been written by my orangutan chauffeur (he does make a mean pomegranate martini though).

let's summarize:

Elle - a fool who loves being evil but encourages Sylar to be good. right.
Sylar - the only thing more unbelievable about his change of heart was his original change to be a good guy.
Hiro - yay!
Parkman - zzzzzzzz
Daphne - her greed and speed hurt her dad and a scarecrow was her savior/friend when she was a teenager? ok. do we care? not especially.
Nathan - "i now randomly care about oppressed people so i will align with my evil dad to make sure that senators never have to be tied up in a dank shed ever again!"
Peter - "wait, you're doing what? i don't have any powers, my character has been a fool for a good portion of the last 2 seasons, and that STILL doesn't make any sense to me."

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

the only good thing about this week's episode was that Hiro was finally behaving like a hero ("bad man!" *BLINK*). all it took was for him to be 10 years old and get a pep talk from Seth Green.

Definitely the best part. I'm not sure he put them where he did, though. The moon would have been just as good of a place.

[OreoCookie]

I knew there was a reason that I stopped watching the show … 

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

the episode could have been saved had it spanned two weeks

Uh, it did span two weeks

[brassplayersrock²]

• http://heroeswiki.com/The_Eclipse%2C_Part_1
• http://heroeswiki.com/The_Eclipse%2C_Part_2

Enjoyed the second part much better. You got to see some real development in why the characters are the way they are in the flash forward episodes.

[Demonhood]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Uh, it did span two weeks

yes, i understand it was a two part episode. i meant the one that aired this monday. they rushed to get the characters to a set point without regard for logic.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Enjoyed the second part much better. You got to see some real development in why the characters are the way they are in the flash forward episodes.

Yeah, except for Sylar...

[Chuckit]

I agree with Demonhood. The writers on this show seem to think that having people behave inconsistently qualifies as character development. There was no real arc where we see Sylar changing or pivotal moment where Elle suddenly found the goodness in her heart — it's just like, "OK, we want the characters to act like this in this episode." They even retconned a stupid emo backstory onto Sylar to justify him acting like such a sap — despite having already shown his backstory.

I heard they're looking to hire back Bryan Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is canceled. I'm sad to see that show go, but this one desperately needs somebody who understands how to write characters.

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

...I heard they're looking to hire back Bryan Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is canceled. I'm sad to see that show go, but this one desperately needs somebody who understands how to write characters.

Or a coherent story arc. This season is such a tub of sludge. I keep watching, even though I know nothing important is ever going to happen until the final episode when Papa Petrelli will have it out with Sylar (that is what this is leading up to, right? The two power-absorbers clash? Maybe they absorb each other into a black hole?)

Bummer about Daisies, though. Loved that show. Writer's strike cut it off at the knees, though, and it couldn't recover.

[Rumor]

Ah, bet Peter gets his powers back, and learns to control them like Papa and Sylar.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I heard they're looking to hire back Bryan Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is canceled. I'm sad to see that show go, but this one desperately needs somebody who understands how to write characters.

The girlfriend is not happy about Pushing Daisies.

I liked the show, but I can understand why it got canceled. It had a very Arrested Development feel to it. Long backstory, and it's kind of a niche show.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I heard they're looking to hire back Bryan Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is canceled.

WHAT??!

[brassplayersrock²]

He heard:

"they're looking to hire back Bryan Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is canceled."

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

WHAT??!

Ditto.

[Chuckit]

Assuming a lot of people hadn't heard about Pushing Daisies and y'all don't just hate Bryan Fuller, here's a fansite with the news and a campaign to get it picked up on another network: http://savedaisies.com/

Honestly, ever since Firefly, I have had horrible luck with TV shows. My favorite show gets canceled every season. Daisies was my favorite this year, so I guess it's kind of my fault. Heroes has saved itself by making me hate all my former favorite characters.

[- - e r i k - -]

Intelligent shows gets cancelled, crap shows gets to stay on the air. Such has been the fate of too many shows to mention in the American landscape:

- Carnivale
- Rome (admittedly it had planned for it)
- Firefly
- Pushing Daisies
- Futurama (revived thanks to DVD sales)
- Dirty Sexy Money (just learned of it's demise)

[- - e r i k - -]

Heroes got me to hate ALL the characters in the space of a single episode. Reading the synopses here have been more rewarding than trying to keep following that train wreck any further.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Intelligent shows gets cancelled, crap shows gets to stay on the air. Such has been the fate of too many shows to mention in the American landscape:

- Carnivale
- Rome (admittedly it had planned for it)
- Firefly
- Pushing Daisies
- Futurama (revived thanks to DVD sales)
- Dirty Sexy Money (just learned of it's demise)

Journeyman?

[Brien]

Journeyman was cool. I'd have liked to see where it had gone had it gotten another season.

Heroes seems to have totally lost it's way. And with a SAG strike possible, and another half-season, I'm not sure the writers can recover. They need to figure out what the want to do, because right now it seems like they're writing the scripts the day before filming.

[Big Mac]

Yeah, the plots are getting bad, but somehow I'm still being entertained by the action.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Intelligent shows gets cancelled, crap shows gets to stay on the air. Such has been the fate of too many shows to mention in the American landscape:

- Carnivale
- Rome (admittedly it had planned for it)
- Firefly
- Pushing Daisies
- Futurama (revived thanks to DVD sales)
- Dirty Sexy Money (just learned of it's demise)

Arrested Development.

[lavar78]

I'm still bummed about Pushing Daisies. It was definitely my favorite from last season (although I have to admit I enjoy Chuck).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Journeyman?

Journeyman was extremely clever. I remember when I'd watch it, and I'd be skeptical because he would leave tracks whenever he went back in the past episode after episode. But it really became cool when not only did people in the past figure out that he was from the future based on subtle details (like his shoes not matching), to the government investigation he spawned because he kept leaving current money in the past.

(Sorry if you haven't seen the show... but given that it had a small audience, I'm probably not ruining it for many people who intended to see it...)

[lavar78]

Yeah, I loved Journeyman, too. They keep teasing us with great clever shows... and then cancel them when they're too clever for most of the TV audience. Um, didn't they realize that from the beginning?

[brassplayersrock²]

Just put Jounbeyman into my Hulu watch list. I'll check it out later.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Just put Jounbeyman into my Hulu watch list. I'll check it out later.

Yeah, I hear "Jounbeyman" is teh awesome!!1!

[brassplayersrock²]

for catching a typo

http://images.google.com/images?clie...=1&sa=N&tab=wi

[Big Mac]

Okay, I don't really care about the naysayers right now because tonight's episode was really good.

[thechidz]

when does the episode show up on hulu?

[Chuckit]

Tonight's episode was just plain bizarre.

Cake?

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by thechidz 

when does the episode show up on hulu?

just watched it on hulu. indeed, a great start to the day.

[voodoo]

Damn fine episode! I approve. Heroes is still good

[Cold Warrior]

I didn't like the episode. The writers gyrate from one thing to the next and characters' actions serve only a superficial purpose.

Peter went to find the Haitian and it became a sort of journey for him. He found his inner hero without powers, but then back in the U.S. he wimped out.

Hiro traveled 16 years to the past with Claire just to have his memory restored but powers stripped, catalyst stolen and him stranded there?

Arthur got the catalyst, juiced up a small batch of formula and then got whacked, losing the catalyst in the process? Why make such a big deal of it then just lose it?

It's like this season was written by committee and each writer got 15 minutes per episode to do whatever they wanted.

[brassplayersrock²]

couldn't keep up huh?

[goMac]

How exactly did Arthur get back in time to get the Catalyst?

Or had Hero already moved back forward in time?

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by goMac 

How exactly did Arthur get back in time to get the Catalyst?

Ah...that's one of the paradoxes of time travel. Once you have that ability, you can go back to before you had it and still have it. Logically, though, Arthur had to get it from Hiro at some time, we just aren't sure when.

Another thing to remember about the episode...We were watching events as they were looking through Mendez' sketchbook. Up until now, events followed the stories in the final published comic books (and paintings.) The sketchbook is not necessarily how things might really proceed. As any artist will tell you, a sketchbook is the rough draft and not the final product.

I'm wondering if it wasn't all misdirection?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Logically, though, Arthur had to get it from Hiro at some time, we just aren't sure when.

Didn't he get it from Peter along with all Peter's other powers?

[Thorzdad]

I've forgotten what all powers Peter had.

[Cold Warrior]

Peter has (had) Hiro's powers so Arthur got them right away.

[Thorzdad]

Ah. There you go. Thanks!

[goMac]

Ugh, who has what power is so hard to keep track of...

So all this begs the question... how did he know Hero had the catalyst at that moment? If he could time travel, what could stop him from getting the catalyst through other means?

[Big Mac]

I'm wondering how the Haitian was able to sustain the block on Arthur without impacting Sylar's powers at all. Isn't his power to block other powers an AOE sort of deal?

I agree that the Catalyst/Light mini-arc was nearly meaningless given the outcome, but the episode was still entertaining and higher quality than some of the more recent ones - like having the eclipse's effect be only temporary and of essential no impact.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Ah...that's one of the paradoxes of time travel. Once you have that ability, you can go back to before you had it and still have it. Logically, though, Arthur had to get it from Hiro at some time, we just aren't sure when.

Another thing to remember about the episode...We were watching events as they were looking through Mendez' sketchbook. Up until now, events followed the stories in the final published comic books (and paintings.) The sketchbook is not necessarily how things might really proceed. As any artist will tell you, a sketchbook is the rough draft and not the final product.

I'm wondering if it wasn't all misdirection?

Isaac's drawings were visions of the future. Unless something changed the future, I don't think they would change.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I'm wondering how the Haitian was able to sustain the block on Arthur without impacting Sylar's powers at all. Isn't his power to block other powers an AOE sort of deal?

It also seemed to be just sort of an aura rather than an active power until now. Like, he stopped people's powers when he didn't even know people with abilities were around. I literally yelled "What the crap?!" when he was doing that Dragonball "His powers are TOO STRONG — I can't hold them back!" thing. At any rate, I think the Haitian's power broke just as Sylar walked in, Arthur slashed Peter's face, Peter shot at him and Sylar froze the bullet in midair. Or did I miss something in the jumble?

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It also seemed to be just sort of an aura rather than an active power until now. Like, he stopped people's powers when he didn't even know people with abilities were around. I literally yelled "What the crap?!" when he was doing that Dragonball "His powers are TOO STRONG — I can't hold them back!" thing.?

I thought exactly the same thing. He used to just block out everyone's power simultaneously, and never once did they show him not being able to, or even almost not being able to, block someone's power.

Then the writers just totally did a 180 with that the other night.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

At any rate, I think the Haitian's power broke just as Sylar walked in, Arthur slashed Peter's face, Peter shot at him and Sylar froze the bullet in midair.

That's what was implied, but if the Haitian's power broke then Arthur would get his powers back and wouldn't have any issue with a bullet going toward the front of the head, right?