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Pirate Bay founders sent to jail (Page 6)
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Doofy
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Apr 23, 2009, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
HD Video
The iTunes Music Store in the US has HD downloads. Even SD downloads (about 500 MB a pop) would be unbearable (the download speed has to be greater than the bitrate, otherwise you have to wait for the download to finish).

Software Downloads
MacTeX weighs in at over a GB. Software updates are regularly greater than 100 MB.

Games
Although I don't play WoW (because I think the first two letters stand for Waste of), but there are quite a few online games that depend on a high-speed internet connection. Just the downloads are ridiculously large.

Online Backup/File storage
Some people actually do that. I often put zip archives of photos I've taken for friends to download. Also 40~100 MB a piece.

IP TV
In some countries (e. g. France), you don't have cable anymore, but TV programs are streamed via your internet connection.

Of course, this would mean lost revenue for companies as well.
So clearly this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "massive" loss to e-commerce. You know, since you can't actually download that new pair of trainers or that new patio furniture.
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Chuckit
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Apr 23, 2009, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So clearly this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "massive" loss to e-commerce. You know, since you can't actually download that new pair of trainers or that new patio furniture.
Bigger loss than the RIAA would be.
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OreoCookie
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Apr 23, 2009, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So clearly this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "massive" loss to e-commerce. You know, since you can't actually download that new pair of trainers or that new patio furniture.
`Not massive' by whose standards? Certainly the game design studios won't like it very much when another industry imposes a bandwidth limit -- which probably China or other countries do not care about anyway. Any of these artificial limitations will hurt much more than they will do good.

A few years back, the music industry also thought the iTMS (and similar online portals) will only contribute a drop to the ocean to music sales. Now they make so much money off it so that Apple has strong-armed them into dropping DRM (thank you very much).

You're proposing that other industries should suffer because of your attempt at curbing piracy in the music and movie industry. It doesn't just hurt consumers, but also other industries. The market has spoken that people want fast internet connections. They don't even want to get up off their arses to rent a video (even though there is a video rental right across the street), they want to be able to get it online. People want that kind of convenience.

And this is only the beginning: I have a 100 MBit line at work (rather: we have at least 10-15 GBit, but my ethernet port only supports 10 and 100 MBit ethernet) and there are so many other applications once you attain these speeds. Full online backups are feasible with these speeds, etc. etc.
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starman
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Apr 23, 2009, 02:45 PM
 
He's backpedaling

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Doofy
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Apr 23, 2009, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
He's backpedaling
That's it - I'm out. If you people don't understand the concept of a conversation then there's no point.
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starman
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:03 PM
 
Your arguments make no sense. /shrug

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besson3c
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:10 PM
 
starman: why does he have to defend them as if he is on trial? We are just having a discussion. Chill!
     
starman
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
starman: why does he have to defend them as if he is on trial? We are just having a discussion. Chill!
Who said anything about being on trial? Really, where do you get that from? He's putting people down using big red letters and not making a lick of sense.

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besson3c
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:25 PM
 
Because he feels like he is being ganged up on, and therefore feels threatened. I've you've never been in a similar situation consider yourself lucky!

There is no crime in having different opinions, even if they don't make sense to you. Until he starts being obnoxious or arrogant about them or something, I don't see why he ought to feel like he is being ganged up on.
     
CharlesS
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:31 PM
 
It's because he was obviously winning the argument before he made that left turn into bizarro land with the bandwidth cap. Therefore, the other side is of course going to jump on that one point and milk it for all it's worth, in order to "turn the tides."

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Doofy
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
He's putting people down using big red letters
D'ya think that might have anything to do with them saying "I lose brain cells every time I interact with you" to me?

Originally Posted by starman View Post
and not making a lick of sense.
I'm making sense. You just can't see it 'coz you've got an ethernet cable up your ass.

Let's take the following as an example of having an ethernet cable up one's ass:

if it weren't for the Internet, I wouldn't currently be employed.
Let's break that down. What this is saying is that had the Internet never been invented, person would be dumpster diving for food. It doesn't take into consideration the fact that the person might currently have a different job had it not been for the Internet.

And this is where you people are having a problem understanding what I'm saying - you're so far into the Internet (one might say "geeky") that you don't realise that limiting bandwidth (as supposed) wouldn't have that much of an effect on e-commerce. The vast majority (99%+) of e-commerce involves physical goods which can't be downloaded... ...trainers, jeans, food, patio furniture, blow-up dolls, couches, tyres for your car, hotel rooms, concert tickets, bottles of Cristal, Macs. You just don't see it because you're too busy playing your online games.

And that's it. I'm out. This can only get uglier from this point on.
You'll see something like this bandwidth cap I've been talking about being introduced in the next ten years. You can make book on it.
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Chuckit
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
You'll see something like this bandwidth cap I've been talking about being introduced in the next ten years. You can make book on it.
I hope so. Then I can start a company and offer to let people use that "corporate" bandwidth (which is obviously a totally different thing from "consumer bandwidth") and I'll be filthy stinking rich.
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Shaddim
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Apr 23, 2009, 03:59 PM
 
Seems, the usual suspects are guilty of another virtual gangbang.

Doofy's points are valid. If we didn't have broadband, or the Internet, many of you would be doing something else for a living (and of course, we wouldn't be discussing this). However, who's to say that this alternative vocation wouldn't be more enjoyable or better for you? It's one of those things we may never know. If the internets just collapsed tomorrow, we'd survive. Hell, we may even learn how to communicate with other people in person... and I know how much that prospect scares many of you. As for e-commerce, I can still find anything I need locally, even though I may spend a bit more for it. But, I do get the benefit of fresh air and real human contact.

Back in the day, many used BBS systems to find other like-minded people for the purpose of getting together and socializing. Now, however, online gathering has replaced that for millions, and I can't help but think that aspect isn't an advancement in civilization. To be blunt, if the majority of your "friends" are people you've never actually touched, then you should probably reevaluate your life.
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starman
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Apr 23, 2009, 04:01 PM
 
You've obviously never been to SXSW, or a podcamp, or a barcamp, or some other means of meeting people in person.

(hint: click my flickr link)

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Shaddim
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Apr 23, 2009, 04:04 PM
 
Sure, I've visited others that I've met online, but that seems to be more of the exception than the rule.
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Chuckit
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Apr 23, 2009, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Seems, the usual suspects are guilty of another virtual gangbang.

Doofy's points are valid. If we didn't have broadband, or the Internet, many of you would be doing something else for a living (and of course, we wouldn't be discussing this). However, who's to say that this alternative vocation wouldn't be more enjoyable or better for you? It's one of those things we may never know. If the internets just collapsed tomorrow, we'd survive. Hell, we may even learn how to communicate with other people in person... and I know how much that prospect scares many of you. As for e-commerce, I can still find anything I need locally, even though I may spend a bit more for it. But, I do get the benefit of fresh air and real human contact.

Back in the day, many used BBS systems to find other like-minded people for the purpose of getting together and socializing. Now, however, online gathering has replaced that for millions, and I can't help but think that aspect isn't an advancement in civilization. To be blunt, if the majority of your "friends" are people you've never actually touched, then you should probably reevaluate your life.
I think the universe might implode under the irony of this post.
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Shaddim
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Apr 23, 2009, 04:33 PM
 
If you could be more specific, I'd be more than happy to address your comments.
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Chuckit
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Apr 23, 2009, 04:39 PM
 
It was a long post about how pointless it is talking to people on the Internet — on the Internet. It just seems like, if you really don't see any value to this communication, why are you here?
Chuck
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Shaddim
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Apr 23, 2009, 04:55 PM
 
Internet communications are fine, but people are losing their grip on society and don't understand moderation. Who's to say that our culture is heading in the right direction, but personally I feel that something's wrong.

Not too long ago everyone in this house was raiding in WoW 4 nights /week. It was fun for a while, but it erodes other aspects of your life.
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Chuckit
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Apr 23, 2009, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Internet communications are fine, but people are losing their grip on society and don't understand moderation. Who's to say that our culture is heading in the right direction, but personally I feel that something's wrong.

Not too long ago everyone in this house was raiding in WoW 4 nights /week. It was fun for a while, but it erodes other aspects of your life.
Letting a game take over your life isn't good, but that's just as true of work or in-person partying or anything else. Like, I often meet up with several friends and friends-of-friends for big LAN Halo matches. I don't really see how those are much inferior to other social activities we might be doing, like basketball or board games or watching a movie or whatever.

Basically, I'm not sure the Internet is a huge game-changer in that respect.
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- - e r i k - -
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Apr 23, 2009, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Of course, I'm not against all progress. Just the progress which sucks. Compare this to a lib who tends to accept any and all progress as "good" regardless of how much it sucks.
I know. My second point addressed this

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Andy8  (op)
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Apr 23, 2009, 08:07 PM
 
I wish Apple would open the iTMS into other markets in Asia, especially here in Hong Kong and China to purchase music legally for download.
     
Wiskedjak
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Apr 23, 2009, 09:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
If we didn't have broadband, or the Internet, many of you would be doing something else for a living (and of course, we wouldn't be discussing this).
And, if we didn't have recorded music, *Doofy* would be doing something else for the living, and, again, we wouldn't be talking about music piracy. It's easy to talk about alternate realities.
     
Shaddim
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Apr 24, 2009, 02:18 AM
 
Possibly, but recorded music has been around a lot longer an doesn't seem to be quite as invasive. With the exception of various experiments playing Stairway to Heaven backwards, of course.
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- - e r i k - -
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Apr 24, 2009, 03:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Possibly, but recorded music has been around a lot longer an doesn't seem to be quite as invasive. With the exception of various experiments playing Stairway to Heaven backwards, of course.
Point proven again.

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Tiresias
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Apr 24, 2009, 04:25 AM
 
Looks like Limewire might be next.

LimeWire targeted in US filesharing investigation
4:02PM Wednesday Apr 22, 2009

WASHINGTON - A House committee is reopening its investigation of internet services that let computer users distribute music and movies online amid reports the same software was exploited to gain unauthorised access to government and private data.

The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee sent letters Monday to the Justice Department, Federal Trade Commission and The Lime Group, which runs LimeWire, a popular file-sharing service.

The letters, signed by chairman Edolphus Towns, D-N.Y., and ranking Republican Darrell E. Issa of California, sought information about any such breaches and what the Obama administration and company are doing to protect against them.

Internet file-sharing links computers across the internet and allows users to access files stored on any other computer within the network. In the past, these networks have been popular among people who distribute popular music, movies and commercial software without paying legally required copyright fees.

The House committee held hearings in 2007 and the problem of pirated music has since declined. LimeWire is the largest remaining such network popular among computer users.

Witnesses at the earlier hearings "easily obtained bank records, health records, military files, tax returns, corporate documents, and other highly sensitive private files via the LimeWire network," Towns and Issa wrote to Mark Gorton, chairman of The Lime Group.

They recalled that Gorton told lawmakers he would make significant changes in the software to prevent inadvertent disclosures of personal or confidential information over the internet service.

"However, it appears that nearly two years after your commitment to make significant changes in the software, LimeWire and other P2P (peer-to-peer) providers have not taken adequate steps to address this critical problem," Towns and Issa wrote.

They cited press reports this year and last year of computer users making available the blueprints and avionics for Marine One, the president's helicopter; more than 150,000 tax returns; 25,800 student loan applications; 626,000 credit reports and tens of thousands of medical files with names, addresses and Social Security numbers for patients with AIDS, cancer and mental illnesses.

—AP
     
Shaddim
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Apr 24, 2009, 04:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Point proven again.
Yes, I know my point is proven.

IAD is reaching epidemic proportions. In fact, in my city there are more groups setup to help with online addiction than there are for drugs and alcohol combined. Obviously, I'm not against spending time online, but it requires moderation.
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Wiskedjak
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Apr 24, 2009, 07:51 PM
 
In other news, the Finnish copyright lobby considers enabling students to rent their textbooks to be a violation of copyright.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/17696.cfm
     
Chuckit
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Apr 24, 2009, 09:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
In other news, the Finnish copyright lobby considers enabling students to rent their textbooks to be a violation of copyright.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/17696.cfm
Y'all see now why I say the copyright industry has become a problem? If the laws were written today, you'd all be condemning libraries just as harshly as you do The Pirate Bay.
Chuck
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OreoCookie
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Apr 25, 2009, 02:38 PM
 
Right.
In Germany, the publishers of scientific journals are also going berserk, because the DFG (German Science Foundation), the DAAD (German academic exchange service) and the other major scientific organizations are planning to require that the result of any scientific project supported by them be made freely available in Open Access journals. The background is that publishers have been increasing prices considerably over the last few years so that many subscriptions have been cancelled. It's difficult for scientists to access even their own publications at times.

The publishers are vigorously opposed to that, because they're on the losing end of the argument. A considerable part of scientific activity is funded by these organizations and it would give prestige to Open Access journals (which is the reason paid journals still exist, in many branches, you need to have published in the right journals to stay in the game).
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