[rblanchette]

I am a former switcher who switched back to PC and am now considering switching again. I have been looking at the 12" and 15" Powerbooks and need some advice on what to get. This computer will strictly be for personal use (I am an IS manager and live in the MS world at work). I like the portability of the 12" but I am wondering how much performance I am giving up to the 15". Superdrive or Combodrive? I am not a video wizard so I don't know how much benefit there is to the Superdrive. What is the write speed for CD-Rs on the Superdrive? Is 512 megs of RAM enough or will I need to add more if I buy the 15"? Has anyone had problems with the 12"?

Your assistance is greatly appreciated. I like PCs but I am looking to try something different. I want something I can enjoy using. I don't "enjoy" my PCs. They get the job done but they aren't exactly fun to use.

[cornydog]

I can't address all of that, but here goes.

I have a week old 12" powerbook with 256MB RAM, 60 GB HD, SuperDrive, and Airport Extreme.

So far I love it(I'm also a PC/IT person, btw). If I had it to do again, I'd get the 15", but only for one reason--1024x768 just isn't as big as it used to be . I don't think the 15" is too different in size, weight, or portability. Go to the closest retailer you can find and just pick them both up, ask if you can stick them in a carrying case to see if the 1 lb. weight difference bothers you.

That said, the 12" is still pretty cool. I haven't really seen it be laggy on anything yet, of course, I have only been doing word-processing and browsing. I'll probably start using it for basic programming next week, but never anything too taxing. 'course if RAM is and issue, I'll just buy some more from Crucial.com.

[nagromme]

Tests I've seen show the 15" being enough faster to be worth the price, when you include the screen and extra ports into the equation.

Both are great for the price, though. I played with both in person and LOVED the portability of the 12". Even the 17" is portable enough, but the 12" was so tiny and light, it was hard to say no to.

But the 15" 1.25 Ghz I have ordered will last me longer, and the screen is much brighter than the 12". It really depends how much the portability--and savings--of the 12" overrides other goals.

In either case, check out the deals at MacConnection.com. Free RAM, free printer and scanner, free bag, free shipping, you name it

[Boondoggle]

I don't have either, but I'm seriously considering the following:

12" combo; PRICE/portability

15" BTO combo w/backlit keyboard: BEST VALUE

you gotta love that backlit keyboard....

since I have access to a superdrive at work I don't need that.


I'm waiting to see that new shipping 15"s are not having white spots, and then I'll probaby buy.

bd

[Maflynn]

I went with the 15" myself. Its more of a desktop replacement so the portability advantage the 12" offers was not as great a priority. I also like the keyboard and the larger screen real estate. the down side is the shipping times which one would you get sooner (I'm one of those instant gratification guys)

Mike

[domymel]

I personally went for the 15 for the following reasons:
it is my main machine during the term and I just wouldn't want to work on a 12" so many hours every day.
If however I would have had the possibility to get an external screen, I would have gone with the 12". I think it is the perfect real portable and the performance is more than sufficient for most users.
The 15" is too big (personal opinion), if you sit in a cramped lecture room -
If an externl screen however is not an option, then I highly recommend the 15". A side by side comparison with a 12" just showed me how small the screen really is (the guy with the 12" now wants a 15" as well )

Cheers,
Dom

[Skypat]

Actually I think Apple should add a 4th model to the Powerbook lineup. A 14" alu, more "standard". I think many people would go fo it. But in the meantime I ordered the 12" for its portability. I had the opportunity to play with it and it felt great. Discreet, fast, ... but it is my second computer. I already have a desktop. I would have choosen the 15" if it had been my only computer.

What are you going to do ?

[jamester]

I'm highly considering purchasing the 12" PB w/combo drive next weekend. This IS a desktop replacement - I ditched my PC so other than work, I'm an all-Mac guy now. (Work is spent with PC notebooks, Dells in particular, somebody shoot me.)

Price is a *major* *MAJOR* sticking point with me, so the 12" is as good as it gets. I get a "PowerBook" at an iBook price. With the edu discount it's just something I couldn't pass up.

I've been working @ home on a 12" iBook for the past few months, and while the screen IS pretty small sometimes, I do eventually plan on getting an external LCD monitor to go with the PB, and 1Ghz G4 will be *plenty* of power for me for the immediate future. This will be my "getting-my-life-back-on-track" machine, lol

[jamester]

(PowerBook is only in quotes because it's something I've wanted for manymanymany years - the quotes are not meant to imply that the 12" is any less a PB than the 15" PB.)

[cornydog]

Originally posted by domymel:
<snip>

If an externl screen however is not an option, then I highly recommend the 15". A side by side comparison with a 12" just showed me how small the screen really is (the guy with the 12" now wants a 15" as well )

Cheers,
Dom

Aye, but the only reason is the resolution of the screen. If they could charge me another $200 and get me up to 1280x1024, I'd not even question my decision to get a 12". The screen size is fine, it's the resolution that I don't like. Of course it could be because of the dual 17" trinitrons at 1600x1200 I use at work.

As for portability, if my carrying case didn't slip around on my shoulder, I'm not sure I would know I was carrying it.

[rblanchette]

Thanks for all the input. I am still thinking about it.

I went down to CompUSA and played with all of the Macs. I have a tough time justifiying the price difference for the 15. It's very hard for a PC user to justify spending $2600 on a notebook computer when there are Intel Centrino notebooks on the next aisle for hundreds of dollars less. I know that OS-X is infinitely nicer than Windows and the Powerbooks are beautiful machines. It is still hard to justify the extra cost.

I wonder if Apple realizes the kind of money they would make by porting OS-X to Intel or AMD chips. Many PC users would switch in a hot second if we didn't have to buy new hardware.

What do you all think that Apple might do at Macworld in January? Do you think there will be new Powerbooks at that time?

[Skypat]

I saw a nice HP notebook for just �899 last time. It had 14" TFT screen and I said to myself "I just spent �2000 for a Powerbook ". Then I read carefully the notice above the computer. It had a 10 GB HD ! Amazing, didn't know it was actually *made*. Plastic enclosure. Shared video memory. No bluetooth/wireless capabilities. Horrible blue lights when the computer is running (so tasteful) ... Mine is alu/bluetooth/wireless/80GB HD/runs quiet, cool. Has a wonderful keyboard. It has style A good PC laptop costs almost the same as an Apple. (well, I don't have my PB yet)

Anyway. Next January ? Apple has updated all its product line. Powerbook last September, iMac this week, iBook 2 weeks ago, G5 last summer, iPod last summer as well. I am almost sure they will announce a new mac. Either a more business low cost machine, either a 20th anniversary mac, either a tablet. Or a super color ipod with video capabilities ?

[toans]

Originally posted by rblanchette

I wonder if Apple realizes the kind of money they would make by porting OS-X to Intel or AMD chips. Many PC users would switch in a hot second if we didn't have to buy new hardware.

Apple won't do this. They are a hardware company, not software. They make operating systems to sell their hardware.

I think they make about 75 % of their revenue from selling computers, and 15 % from iPods, Displays etc. Their software sales total 10 %.

If they ported OS X to Intel and AMD, this would elimate most of their revenue, as many people would have no need to buy Apple computers.

[anaphora68]

Furthermore, Apple designs their OS to work with specific hardware configurations. It would be a disaster if someone were using a cloned PC and installed a port of an Apple OS.

It won't happen.

Besides, if you want to use OSX on a PC, just wait for the next windows, I'm sure it will "borrow" a lot of major features...

[rblanchette]

I just think it would be a good idea to port it. They can control the hardware still by selling Macs with Intel or AMD chips instead of the G4 or G5. This especially makes sense in the notebook arena. Notebook chips from AMD and Intel are notably faster in independent testing. They also get better battery life, especially the Pentium-M. Even Apple has admitted that getting the G5 into a notebook is going to be a problem because of the heat. They have also admitted that porting the OS would not be difficult due to its Unix underpinnings.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. Port it but build in some kind of hardware restriction that will only allow it to run on Apple approved systems. MS has already done something similar with the WinXP activation scheme. It marries itself to the particular hardware configuration it is installed on. Apple could take this a step further and completely lock the OS to the particular machine. This is very easy in a notebook as almost all of the hardware is non-upgradeable. This would give Apple cutting edge performance and battery life while possibly resulting in lower costs for customers.

Just my 2-cents.

[toans]

and like win xp activation, it would take 2-3 hours for a crack to appear on the net that would allow os x to be run on any x86 machine...

[toans]

The g5 runs no hotter than most AMD and Intel laptop cpus, just Apple don't want to put it into a laptop twice as thick as the current PBs..

[RayX]

Post removed due to being offtopic.

[rblanchette]

They may be stupid but they are quickly becoming a fact of life. MS killed the WinXP hack already too. Anyone trying to update a cracked copy is unable to from the Windows Update site. That may not sound like a big deal, but it is when you consider all the patches XP needs.

Apple doesn't need to use the same model as Windows. Intel or AMD could build something into the chip that would only allow it to work with OS-X. It could be cracked, but who would bother? Who would care anyway?

It's not about the activation anyway. It's about Apple pulling their head out of their rear and getting a chip with some horsepower and a future. The G5 may be excellent in the desktop but it's not going to work in a notebook without a radical change in cooling technology. That is what Apple said about it, not me. Why bother with a new technology when there are options already out there that will work with the current chassis?

IBM is not moving to the smaller 65nm process until 2005. That means no lower power, cooler running cpu until then. That's a long wait while Intel and AMD hit 3 or maybe 4GHz in mobile chips.

[anaphora68]

I still don't see where you are going with the porting idea. If you are jealous that your friend or someone has a 2.8 ghz laptop than go with a windows box. The G4 is still a capable chip for what people who buy apples need them for.

You can't compare wintel based system to an apple directly. There is no baseline from which to compare a G4 and an x86 based processor. If you disagree with that point than go to Tomshardware.com. You are talking about a totally different architecture. Apple doesn't code their OS to run on an x86 based processor, and for good reason, it would not work as well.

If you need cutting edge performance you buy a desktop, it is quite clear that the G4 is still a *marketable* chip to have in a laptop, they are still selling.

[RayX]

Post removed due to being offtopic.

[BenN]

Back on topic

I've owned both the 12" AlBook (rev.A) and also the 15" AlBook. Here's my take on it:

It really depends on what you use the computer for. For casual stuff (e-mail, browsing, iTunes, light gaming etc), the 12" PowerBook is great; but then again, why not get a 12" G4 iBook in this case? If you're more of a 'power user', the 12" PowerBook only makes sense (IMHO) as a second machine; this assumes you have a desktop Mac or PC as well, with a larger monitor.

12" G4 iBook advantages:
- Cheaper (good bang/buck)
- Arguably better software bundle than 12" PowerBook
- Arguably better graphics than 12" PowerBook
- Good battery life

12" PowerBook advantages:
- A bit faster than iBook
- Lighter than iBook
- Option for SuperDrive
- Looks cooler
- Larger-capacity hard drive than iBook
- Audio line-in
- MiniDVI port
- Support for more RAM (1.25GB)

15" PowerBook advantages:
- Faster (up to 1.25GHz on 167MHz bus)
- Larger display (1280x854 vs. 1024x768 on 12" models)
- FireWire 800 port as well as FireWire 400.
- PC card slot
- Option for SuperDrive
- Looks cooler x2
- Larger-capacity hard drive than iBook or 12" PowerBook
- Audio line-in
- DVI port
- Support for more RAM (2GB)
- Better graphics vs. 12" iBook or PowerBook (ATI Radeon Mobility 9600, 64MB)

I sold my 12", and bought a 15", because I use it as a desktop replacement, for video & audio work & fun. For me, the best things about the 15" are the extra pixels, the graphics, and FW800 (noticeably quicker than FW400 in file transfer).

To answer the questions in the original post:

>What is the write speed for CD-Rs on the Superdrive?
x16.

>Is 512 megs of RAM enough or will I need to add more if I buy the 15"?
IMO 512MB is the minimum for OS X; again, it depends what you use the computer for. I've got 1GB in mine, and I'm happy.

>Has anyone had problems with the 12"?
My rev.A ran quite hot, and developed a wobble (because of heat-induced warping I think). But these issues are supposed to have been fixed in the rev.B models.

More useful info here:
iBook specs
PowerBook specs

[rblanchette]

I appreciate the advice. I am probably going to decide today. The 12" looks good but the 15" is tempting. My only fear is that I will get one with problems. I have seen too many people posting with screen problems and the like. This doesn't seem to be a problem on the 12". What do you think?

[rblanchette]

It is actually simple to port. BSD Unix already runs on intel. Steve Jobs said in a recent interview that it would be a simple matter to port OS-X to Intel. Another Apple executive said that getting a G5 to run in a notebook was going to be difficult and would probably take at least a year. Air cooling won't work, they are looking at a liquid cooling mechanism. If you read my previous post you would know that IBM is not going to a smaller process until 2005. That means no mobile G5 until then. The best they can hope for is to shove a desktop G5 in a notebook body. This means bad battery life and a serious heat problem. A 1" thick notebook simply does not have room for adequate cooling hardware for such a chip.

I was not trying to start an argument. I was suggesting some ideas that Apple could try in order to see what Mac enthusiasts thought about them. Why are people so vitriolic when someone mentions anything non-Apple. Intel and AMD are not Microsoft. I don't understand why Mac users would hate them. How is buying chips from IBM, one of the most powerful computer companies in the world, any better than buying from one of the others? We can end the thread now if you like. To be honest with you, I don't like the tone of many of the people on this forum. Many seem like they have a chip on their shoulder and are itching for a fight. Others are great and I thank you, but some of you have nothing but venom to spew. Perhaps you should read the quote attached to my post.

[rblanchette]

I bought the 12" with superdrive today. Bestbuy.com had a deal with 24-month no interest financing (this is how I buy all my laptops). The promotion just started today and all the 15" powerbooks are already sold out. Thanks for all the advice. I'll give a report once it arrives.

[uv23]

I just went through the same dilemma: 12" or 15". I decided on the 12" as it is truly portable. I find even the 15" too big and I don't like how far back the keyboard is located in relation to the front of the machine (my watch was already scratching th case just from demo-ing the 15). At home, I connect my 12" to an external keyboard/mouse/LCD monitor and on the road I have a true ultra-portable. Perfect combination. Good luck w/ your decision!