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Simon · Mar 3, 2009, 09:49 AM

New Mac Pros were just launched by Apple.

4-core system, 2.66/2.93 GHz. $2499

8-core system, 2x2.26/2x2.66/2x2.93 GHz. $3299

Both are Nehalem (i7) Xeons.

No low-cost quad-core MP option. The cheapest MP you can now actually buy is $2499.

Simon · Mar 3, 2009, 09:53 AM

Oooops. Title should read 8-core. Wishful thinking I guess.

Mods, please fix the title.

OreoCookie · Mar 3, 2009, 09:57 AM

Wishful thinking, indeed

Simon · Mar 3, 2009, 10:01 AM

Hehe.

This is interesting. They changed the internal layout.

Simon · Mar 3, 2009, 10:05 AM

Only 1 DVI and 1 MDP on both graphics cards. Pretty lame.

http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

Simon · Mar 3, 2009, 10:13 AM

Apple really screwed over MP buyers on a budget.

Previously $2299 bought you a 2.8 GHz quad-core system. It's E5462 CPU costed $797 (1k).

Now, the cheapest MP you can buy is $2499. Its W3520 CPU costs $284 (1k).

Way to go Apple. In the middle of an economic crisis you use cheaper parts and charge customers more. That'll work.

RedStar · Mar 3, 2009, 10:13 AM

They say it supports up to 4 TB of memory (with 4 x 1TB drives). Why the limitation? What if I stick 4 1.5TB drives in it?

OreoCookie · Mar 3, 2009, 10:37 AM

… then you'll get 6 TB of raw storage.
It's quite usual that the largest-capacity drives are not available due to supply constraints.

RedStar · Mar 3, 2009, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

… then you'll get 6 TB of raw storage.
It's quite usual that the largest-capacity drives are not available due to supply constraints.

Ah, I didn't know they meant supported as in that's what they'll sell you. They make it sound like a hard cap on storage.

dankar · Mar 3, 2009, 10:44 AM

Any ideal if they would sell the graphic card soon? Would love to have the new 24" LED LCD on my 1st Gen Macpro.

Big Mac · Mar 3, 2009, 11:22 AM

I don't think the new GPUs are compatible with 1st gen Mac Pros, dankar.

So Apple is going the wrong way not only in terms of price but features? Or is it just that Apple isn't passing the cost savings along?

P · Mar 3, 2009, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

Apple really screwed over MP buyers on a budget.

Previously $2299 bought you a 2.8 GHz quad-core system. It's E5462 CPU costed $797 (1k).

Now, the cheapest MP you can buy is $2499. Its W3520 CPU costs $284 (1k).

Way to go Apple. In the middle of an economic crisis you use cheaper parts and charge customers more. That'll work.

I thought the same thing. I saw the specs and figured a price around $1999 at worst, and saw the return of the decently priced pro Mac. Nope.

Salty · Mar 3, 2009, 12:46 PM

Too bad, after last week when I saw that there actually was an option for a Mac Pro that was just a lil bit out of my price range I figured maybe with this update they'd push a Mac Pro out around the same price as a higher end iMac, and then I could justify it since I already have a monitor I could use. Sadly no. Apparently I'm stuck with my MacBook for now. Which I guess is fine...

To be honest the new iMacs are too expensive too for the specs. I'm gonna say having a 2Ghz MacBook (yes I know the new ones are faster at the same clock) I just really don't feel the pinch to upgrade even though it's into it's third year of life.

P · Mar 3, 2009, 12:58 PM

The new iMacs are so-so. The two lower ones are fine, the more expensive ones are overpriced - or rather, underspecced for the price. The top MP is also OK - you do get a lot for the money. The lower MP is the most overpriced Mac since the IIvx.

Simon · Mar 3, 2009, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by dankar

Any ideal if they would sell the graphic card soon? Would love to have the new 24" LED LCD on my 1st Gen Macpro.

They will see the 4870 as an upgrade kit for the Early 2008 and Early 2009 Mac Pros. But it will not work in the original Mac Pro (I'm assuming it's because of PCIe 2.0).

The kit isn't shipping yet.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB...mco=NDE4NDMxOA

phobos · Mar 4, 2009, 01:55 AM

so what are the choices for us early mac pro users? NONE?
I can't buy a whole new machine just so I can upgrade the graphics card!!!
What are they thinking?????
That is the whole point of having a tower. Upgrading the parts....

angelmb · Mar 4, 2009, 04:24 AM

phobos, if you don't mind me asking… which GPU drives your Mac Pro?, I find that my NVIDIA 8800GT still works great, albeit I see you also work with 3D stuff, or are you mad cause you can't get the new 24" display to work with the 2006 Mac Pro?, after all such display was getting the lowest ratings-reviews I can remember for an Apple Display, but that's another history though.

Simon · Mar 4, 2009, 05:03 AM

The new iMacs don't offer enough and would have needed to be lowered in price.

The octo MPs are serious workstations, but priced very high.

The quad MPs with their 8 GB RAM ceiling and $2499 entry-level price point are a joke.

The dual-band AEBS is great though.

Simon · Mar 4, 2009, 05:09 AM

Usually a good way to get a decently priced MP is to look at refurbs. Especially after a refresh. But this time that's just entirely hopeless.

The previous 3.2 GHz octo with just 2 GB of RAM is $4099 in the refurb section.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB451LL/A

For $3299 you can get a brand new 2.26 GHz octo (CPU performance will be roughly the same as the refurb). But not only will you save $800 over the refurb, you'll also get 6 GB of RAM, a bigger HDD, and a faster optical. Add in the 4870 and you'll still be saving $600 while getting a much better GPU.
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB535LL/A

angelmb · Mar 4, 2009, 06:24 AM

In other words, if Apple is living in denial, investors seem to think it can afford to stay there indefinitely.

Why Apple is living in denial. – Forbes.

Simon · Mar 4, 2009, 06:41 AM

While the article makes a valid point (and I sure agree with the bottom line), they didn't get the facts right.

They claim the Mac Pro entry-level price was dropped from $2799 to $2499. But in reality it was increased from $2199 to $2499.

angelmb · Mar 4, 2009, 10:23 AM

Forbes rarely gets the facts right when it comes to tech stuff… past articles about Apple, the video game industry were laughable, but linked to it cause it shows another point of view beyond we, the users.

Big Mac · Mar 4, 2009, 10:34 AM

Email the author to get the article corrected. Let the media strengthen our position.

P · Mar 4, 2009, 11:47 AM

The old base model MP was an 8-core $2799. You could drop it to a $2199 quad using the BTO options, but that wasn't a pre-configured model. Check for yourself at Amazon - they have several, but other than the 2.8 GHz 8-core, they don't have a model number (it only says "Mac Pro").

Apple now has two base models, distinguished by their motherboards (one or two sockets), so technically Forbes is correct. A clarification might be in order, but they're not WRONG per se.

Simon · Mar 4, 2009, 11:54 AM

They didn't mention octo vs. quad. They didn't mention pre-built vs. CTO. They left the impression that you can now get a Mac Pro for less than before and that's utter nonsense. You were able to order a Mac Pro for $2199 previously. Now you're stuck at $2499. That's a $300 price hike. Their article omits that and gives an entirely wrong impression. It's incomplete to say the least.

Salty · Mar 4, 2009, 12:37 PM

My next Mac will be a Hackintosh...

Veltliner · Mar 4, 2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Apple really screwed over MP buyers on a budget.

Previously $2299 bought you a 2.8 GHz quad-core system. It's E5462 CPU costed $797 (1k).

Now, the cheapest MP you can buy is $2499. Its W3520 CPU costs $284 (1k).

Way to go Apple. In the middle of an economic crisis you use cheaper parts and charge customers more. That'll work.

Not to forget the new low, low 8 Gb maximum RAM. Which renders this machine useless. You'd really have to be a nutcase to shell out 2500$ for a computer that doesn't let you put more than 8Gb RAM in. (I had rather expected they increased the max RAM to 64Gb).

Very sorry about that development indeed.

http://forums.macnn.com/65/mac-pro-a...r-maximum-ram/

phobos · Mar 4, 2009, 02:13 PM

I'm not interested in the new 24" display. I mainly want a better graphics card for 3d work. The 1900Xt i have right now is nice but I would like a card with better support for specific 3d applications. I guess we mac users have to wait a bit more about that

buckthorn · Mar 4, 2009, 03:08 PM

I've drawn the same conclusion. I've been waiting to upgrade my dual G5, and the choice is difficult. The price of the 2008 Mac Pro octo 2.8 and 3.2 refurbs (and existing inventory) hasn't budged much, if at all. As long as that's the case, the octo 2.26 looks like the best option to me -- it gives you a better GPU and some extra ram (and a larger HD) than the 2008s. The ram limit of the new quad makes it a non-starter (is that nuts or what?), and the prices of the other octos are in another league altogether.

Originally Posted by Simon

Usually a good way to get a decently priced MP is to look at refurbs. Especially after a refresh. But this time that's just entirely hopeless.

The previous 3.2 GHz octo with just 2 GB of RAM is $4099 in the refurb section.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB451LL/A

For $3299 you can get a brand new 2.26 GHz octo (CPU performance will be roughly the same as the refurb). But not only will you save $800 over the refurb, you'll also get 6 GB of RAM, a bigger HDD, and a faster optical. Add in the 4870 and you'll still be saving $600 while getting a much better GPU.
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB535LL/A

Doofy · Mar 4, 2009, 03:28 PM

For the record, over here the new base model is about £150 more than the old base model.

2nd gens were selling like hot cakes yesterday (specifically after the Apple Store came back online). Apple are idiots. 'Nuff said.

exca1ibur · Mar 4, 2009, 03:45 PM

Better off stop buying refurbs from Apple if you want to save money. I got my last desktop from here.

2.8 Octo / 4GB / 320HDD / HD 2600 XT / w Applecare / + No taxes outside of FL - $2599

Mac of All Trades

angelmb · Mar 4, 2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

2nd gens were selling like hot cakes yesterday (specifically after the Apple Store came back online). Apple are idiots. 'Nuff said.

It seems the media still thinks most Apple users are sort of blind,

'Apple is comfortably well-off and can easily afford to pay premiums for parts which built-to-a-price box shifters like Dell never will. It has higher margins, so can afford to pay a little more for its components. And Apple customers are willing to pay a little (or a lot) more for early adoption and exclusivity.'

'Macolytes are also fiercely loyal to their weapon of choice. Which means they will feed back to the mothership with bug reports and problems with hardware, rather than shouting the odds to no-one on some backwater Internet forum. Intel would be hard pressed to find better customer feedback from a bunch of PC World customers.'

The Inquirer article, Apple beats the big boys to processor punch.

bearcatrp · Mar 4, 2009, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Better off stop buying refurbs from Apple if you want to save money. I got my last desktop from here.

2.8 Octo / 4GB / 320HDD / HD 2600 XT / w Applecare / + No taxes outside of FL - $2599

Mac of All Trades

Got the same setup except 2GB ram for $2499.00 last month. Glad I did.

Veltliner · Mar 4, 2009, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Apple really screwed over MP buyers on a budget.

Previously $2299 bought you a 2.8 GHz quad-core system. It's E5462 CPU costed $797 (1k).

Now, the cheapest MP you can buy is $2499. Its W3520 CPU costs $284 (1k).

Way to go Apple. In the middle of an economic crisis you use cheaper parts and charge customers more. That'll work.

I'm also disappointed that the octo MacPro stays above 3000$, at 3300$.

Brien · Mar 5, 2009, 03:48 AM

I don't see a Quadro option on the new Mac Pro's, either.

CharlesS · Mar 5, 2009, 04:01 AM

Wow, it really seems Apple has managed to unite this forum on the issue of their desktops - I didn't think that possible.

goMac · Mar 5, 2009, 04:05 AM

: hugs his 2008 Mac Pro :

I'm not impressed with the new ones, and I know someone who waited months for the new ones.

Even if the new baseline 8 core benches higher than the old octo 2.8 ghz, it's still more expensive, by far. It would have to be a massive speed gain.

The only thing that I wish I had was the cheaper RAM options on the new ones.

Simon · Mar 5, 2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Brien

I don't see a Quadro option on the new Mac Pro's, either.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB871LL/A

Simon · Mar 5, 2009, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Wow, it really seems Apple has managed to unite this forum on the issue of their desktops - I didn't think that possible.

Hehe.

I know exactly what you mean. P and I actually agreed on the low-end MP. Whodathunkit?

Simon · Mar 5, 2009, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

: hugs his 2008 Mac Pro :

Enjoy it. The resale value of your MP just went through the roof courtesy of Apple.

Hinson · Mar 6, 2009, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by buckthorn

I've drawn the same conclusion. I've been waiting to upgrade my dual G5, and the choice is difficult. The price of the 2008 Mac Pro octo 2.8 and 3.2 refurbs (and existing inventory) hasn't budged much, if at all. As long as that's the case, the octo 2.26 looks like the best option to me -- it gives you a better GPU and some extra ram (and a larger HD) than the 2008s. The ram limit of the new quad makes it a non-starter (is that nuts or what?), and the prices of the other octos are in another league altogether.

I'm in roughly the same boat with roughly the same conclusion--and it hurts. I have a dual G5 2.5GHz that I'm desperate to upgrade. I don't throw around $3000+ lightly. I have been waiting for the upgrades to the Mac Pro, and now I'm so disappointed at where Apple took the price, I don't know what to do. Previously (before the latest upgrades), I configured a mid-range Mac Pro with an upgraded graphics card and a couple of other additions and found a price I might have been willing to shell out for a machine that will likely last me for the next 5 years (as my current machine did). I didn't buy it, because I knew that an upgrade was coming within a few months. I can only afford to buy the Mac I need if I can ensure it will do for the next 5 or so years, and if after only 6 months the machine is a generation behind, well that just won't do.

So, now that the upgrades are out, I can configure a similar mid-range Mac pro (i.e., don't choose the cheapest set-up but use the next one up as a starting point) and add the same level of upgrades I had before, the price has jumped by over 10%. Now I have to justify spending that much more and I don't know that I can do it. I know It's buying me more machine, but to me its all about the generational configuration--in this generation, a mid-range configuration is more expensive than in the last generation. Ugh. SO frustrating!

-Jay

SierraDragon · Mar 6, 2009, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

: hugs his 2008 Mac Pro : I'm not impressed with the new ones, and I know someone who waited months for the new ones. Even if the new baseline 8 core benches higher than the old octo 2.8 ghz, it's still more expensive, by far. It would have to be a massive speed gain.

It is a massive performance gain. And as to high midrange systems IMO 2006 and 2008 boxes are quite excellent.

As to the high price, Apple is just following its normal for new products skim-the-cream pricing model. Too high in a major recession, however.

-Allen

Simon · Mar 6, 2009, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

As to the high price, Apple is just following its normal for new products skim-the-cream pricing model.

As I and several other have already pointed out elsewhere that's nonsense.

There's nothing new here compared to other releases in the past where prices weren't touched. What has indeed happened is that the components Apple is using on the new ac Pro are actually cheaper. Much cheaper CPUs, significantly cheaper RAM, cheaper GPUs.

What they have done is increased prices and increased their margins while offering desktop specs for what should be a workstation. Apple hasn't done something as outright silly in years. Nothing about this is 'normal'.

Simon · Mar 6, 2009, 03:50 AM

Also, the performance gain can be quantified.

For CPU-dependent tasks the previous eight-core MP at 3.2GHz (dual Harpertowns) and the new eight-core MP at 2.26 GHz (dual Gainestown) perform just about the same.

Demonhood · Mar 6, 2009, 02:57 PM

pity.

i'm desperately in need of an upgrade. at least Apple made the first RAM upgrades cheaper. and included a nice video card (the 4870) as a relatively cheap option. damn shame about the RAM limit tho. altho i'm only at 4GB with my G5 2.3, so maybe that won't be an issue. argh. why must you make this so difficult Apple?

goMac · Mar 6, 2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Also, the performance gain can be quantified.

For CPU-dependent tasks the previous eight-core MP at 3.2GHz (dual Harpertowns) and the new eight-core MP at 2.26 GHz (dual Gainestown) perform just about the same.

If you're doing something that requires a lot of RAM, the 2009's will be faster.

If you're doing something that's not, you're more dependent on the clock speed, and the 2008 Mac Pros will come out ahead.

It wouldn't nearly be as much an issue if the clock rates were more in line with the old Mac Pros, but the baseline Mac Pro is absurd. The new bus is nice, yes, and I'm sure people editing raw 1080p video will approve, but for those of us who just demand a bit more than what an iMac can do, it's not necessary.

joshua305 · Mar 6, 2009, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Apple really screwed over MP buyers on a budget.

Previously $2299 bought you a 2.8 GHz quad-core system. It's E5462 CPU costed $797 (1k).

Now, the cheapest MP you can buy is $2499. Its W3520 CPU costs $284 (1k).

Way to go Apple. In the middle of an economic crisis you use cheaper parts and charge customers more. That'll work.

Mac Pro is supposedly using the workstation grade 2.66GHz X5550 as the base which seems to be priced at $958 (1k) see this article http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._march_29.html.

Veltliner · Mar 7, 2009, 02:45 AM

Looks like it was a smaller upgrade.

I wonder if there's another one coming up with the release of 10.6 Snow Leopard.

Is there a history of two consecutive upgrades with Apple?

goMac · Mar 7, 2009, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Veltliner

Looks like it was a smaller upgrade.

I wonder if there's another one coming up with the release of 10.6 Snow Leopard.

Is there a history of two consecutive upgrades with Apple?

Upgrades are always consecutive, if that's what you're asking...

To really answer your question, not really. The only place I've seen it is with the Macbook Pros when they'll do the 15" and the 17" a few months later.

Simon · 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

If you're doing something that's not, you're more dependent on the clock speed, and the 2008 Mac Pros will come out ahead.

Not really. Nehalem has increased inefficiency far more than just memory latency. Its new SSE for example easily speeds up certain operations by 100%. If you do 264 encoding for example this is huge. The improved FPU, hyperthreading, etc. These things have nothing to do with clock speed or mem latency but they're important to gauge Nehalem's performance. Obviously you will always be able to find a task that runs slightly better on a previous 3.2 GHz than on the new 2.26. But on average they will be about equal. And that's quite amazing considering there's a %30 clock difference and you're comparing the previous high-end with the new low-end octo MP.