[BRussell]

Originally Posted by kman42 

An article over at msnbc suggests no 3rd party apps. Although it sounds like they haven't completely made up their minds.

I could see Apple selling widgets and things through iTunes like they do games for the iPod. Although I wish they would just open the thing up completely.

[Hawkeye_a]

despite the price, im going to have to get one once it reaches Australia. At the way things are going, that should be in 2010, so that gives me ample time to save up.

PS>> we still do not have TV shows or movies on iTMS. old fashioned, inductry fat cats are to blame imo.

[voodoo]

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/0...th-the-iphone/

Guys, if it hasn’t been said, then the answer is no.

Can it run Mac OS X programs? No.
Can it open Word/Excel docs? No. (Yes to PDF, though.)
Can it be used with anything but Cingular? No.
Does it run Palm apps? No.
Does it connect to iChat? No.
Does it have games? No.
Is it ambidextrous? No.
Does it have GPS, voice recognition, 3G? No.
Flash or Java? No.
Music over Bluetooth? No.
Can you change the battery? No.

Etc.

It is STILL the coolest piece of electronics to come along in years.

DP

— Posted by david Pogue

V

[icruise]

How is the iPhone not ambidextrous? How would left-handers be at a disadvantage using it?

I'm kind of surprised it doesn't support games or flash or java.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I'm kind of surprised it doesn't support games or flash or java.

Isn't Java included? It should since it's a necessity for a full-blown browser …

[voodoo]

I don't know, this is something that comes from David Pogue. I think the silliest thing Apple has done here is to release the iPhone first in the US instead of Europe.

Europe is a far larger market and much more established in the GSM era. Launching in the USA is patriotic and nice, but a silly first step for a GSM phone.

V

[icruise]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

I don't know, this is something that comes from David Pogue. I think the silliest thing Apple has done here is to release the iPhone first in the US instead of Europe.

Europe is a far larger market and much more established in the GSM era. Launching in the USA is patriotic and nice, but a silly first step for a GSM phone.

V

Can you honestly say that you would expect Apple to launch ANYTHING in Europe before the US? Steve Jobs said himself that the reason he wanted to make something like the iPhone was to use it himself, and Apple has always been a pretty US-centric company. People in Japan have complained for years that their portables aren't really suited to the Japanese environment, both in terms of their size and their connectivity options (the iBook/MacBook not having a PC-card slot means that it can't use the wireless modem cards that are so common in Japan). That's just the nature of the beast.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Can you honestly say that you would expect Apple to launch ANYTHING in Europe before the US? Steve Jobs said himself that the reason he wanted to make something like the iPhone was to use it himself, and Apple has always been a pretty US-centric company. People in Japan have complained for years that their portables aren't really suited to the Japanese environment, both in terms of their size and their connectivity options (the iBook/MacBook not having a PC-card slot means that it can't use the wireless modem cards that are so common in Japan). That's just the nature of the beast.

Why not? If it makes business sense, then yeah. Launch in Europe first. That's what Nokia, SE et al do. They seem be the far largest GSM companies in the world. I'm sure Motorola doesn't launch in Europe first, and look how well they're doing globally.

In the case of mobile phones, where the *real* money is made is in Europe. If an American company can't think outside the box and launch a product where it will be most profitable and best received and launches it in the US instead.., well it shows that they don't understand the market they're entering.

No US company is big in any sense of the word in mobile phones. I wonder why. (no I don't really)

V

[His Dudeness]

Yeah, the iPhone sucks because it can't play games. Guys, ever hear of a cribbage board and a deck of cards? You actually get to play with live humans. What an astonishing concept.

[Hawkeye_a]

I sorta agree.... the places that use SIM cards would be a MUCH easier market to penetrate....and there's a lot of money to be spent in Europe and Oceania.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I could see Apple selling widgets and things through iTunes like they do games for the iPod.

That sounds like hosery.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Yeah, the iPhone sucks because it can't play games. Guys, ever hear of a cribbage board and a deck of cards? You actually get to play with live humans. What an astonishing concept.

Now if only Apple had developed some device for me to contact these people...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Some Hands-On Time With the iPhone - Bits - Technology - New York Times Blog

Guys, if it hasn’t been said, then the answer is no.

Can it run Mac OS X programs? No.
Can it open Word/Excel docs? No. (Yes to PDF, though.)
Can it be used with anything but Cingular? No.
Does it run Palm apps? No.
Does it connect to iChat? No.
Does it have games? No.
Is it ambidextrous? No.
Does it have GPS, voice recognition, 3G? No.
Flash or Java? No.
Music over Bluetooth? No.
Can you change the battery? No.

Etc.

It is STILL the coolest piece of electronics to come along in years.

DP

— Posted by david Pogue

Right on the money (except for that ambidextrous comment).

Very cool phone implementation, but it is missing some pretty significant stuff for a phone of that price range. That will come over time though, not the least of which is 3G in 2008.

[Faceplant]

One thing no one has mentioned is this...The first couple of months of proud ownership will be a shock to many. I am sure that all the fun stuff it does uses air time that I'm sure Cingular is giddy with excitement to charge customers for. I bet there will be many people stunned when their first phone bill is double the cost of the iPhone itself. But hey, am willing to pay for usage when I am at home drooling over my new iPhone while sitting next to my core 2 duo laptop. I picture myself spending hours on the iPhone looking at all the bookmarked places I have in Safari on my iPhone while my laptop in in sleep mode while all the time chewing up cell minutes. Oh, of course, I have to make a bunch of little changes in iCal and watch it sync via my .mac account, delete the changes, watch it sync, make another and go get my wife and hope she will share my giddyness, which she never does, and again all the while chewing upcell time, and I will get a $1,200 cell bill in August. D'oh! But on the brite side, I bet it will be snappy!

[kman42]

I thought I read that the maps did use GPS. Don't all phones have GPS now?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Faceplant 

One thing no one has mentioned is this...The first couple of months of proud ownership will be a shock to many. I am sure that all the fun stuff it does uses air time that I'm sure Cingular is giddy with excitement to charge customers for. I bet there will be many people stunned when their first phone bill is double the cost of the iPhone itself. But hey, am willing to pay for usage when I am at home drooling over my new iPhone while sitting next to my core 2 duo laptop. I picture myself spending hours on the iPhone looking at all the bookmarked places I have in Safari on my iPhone while my laptop in in sleep mode while all the time chewing up cell minutes. Oh, of course, I have to make a bunch of little changes in iCal and watch it sync via my .mac account, delete the changes, watch it sync, make another and go get my wife and hope she will share my giddyness, which she never does, and again all the while chewing upcell time, and I will get a $1,200 cell bill in August. D'oh! But on the brite side, I bet it will be snappy!

That's why I was saying this phone needs to be accompanied by an unlimited data plan.

I think on Cingular that's about $20-40 a month, in addition to the usual voice usage. Not bad at all.

In Canada on Rogers/Fido it would cost a fortune. Stupid Rogers bastards.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

In Canada on Rogers/Fido it would cost a fortune. Stupid Rogers bastards.

Rogers already offers unlimited data with a blackberry for $90 a month INCLUDING 350 minutes airtime, free weekends etc. That isn't bad at all.

Don't know what they would consider "unlimited" but I know it is over 100 megs.

[Dark Helmet]

I heard something scary.

If you somehow get this phone and only want to use it for everything but the phone features it won't work.

It probably checks for a SIM card, verifies your account and then allows full usage. THAT would really suck.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Why not? If it makes business sense, then yeah. Launch in Europe first. That's what Nokia, SE et al do. They seem be the far largest GSM companies in the world. I'm sure Motorola doesn't launch in Europe first, and look how well they're doing globally.

In the case of mobile phones, where the *real* money is made is in Europe. If an American company can't think outside the box and launch a product where it will be most profitable and best received and launches it in the US instead.., well it shows that they don't understand the market they're entering.

No US company is big in any sense of the word in mobile phones. I wonder why. (no I don't really)

V

Yeah, and what's up with releasing a $400 MP3 player? Nobody's going to buy that!

[Dark Helmet]

I knew the only provider in Canada would be ROGERS for this phone:
"Apple’s New iPhone Availability in Canada?" by John Wiseman

Good cuz that is who I am with

[Wiskedjak]

It will be interesting to see the price point of this thing:


The LG KE850: touchable chocolate - Engadget Mobile

[turtle777]

Teh infringement!!!!1!!1!!1oneoneeleventybillion




-t

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

It will be interesting to see the price point of this thing

Doesn't matter, it isn't 1/10 as cool.

Plenty of iPods wannabe's on the market but iPod is still #1 with lower specs.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I heard something scary.

If you somehow get this phone and only want to use it for everything but the phone features it won't work.

It probably checks for a SIM card, verifies your account and then allows full usage. THAT would really suck.

Just lik almost every other phone...

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

It will be interesting to see the price point of this thing:

I don't know about LG, but I do know Samsung puts out a lot of vaporware. As for LG, I currently use an LG CU500 and its interface stinks.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

Just lik almost every other phone...

No, with other phones they do not work with NO card in it but if you put a card from another carrier in them they work for everything but the cellular features.

[Dark Helmet]

iPhone & LG KE850: separated at birth? - Engadget

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I knew the only provider in Canada would be ROGERS for this phone:
"Apple’s New iPhone Availability in Canada?" by John Wiseman

Good cuz that is who I am with

"I’m also told the iPhone will be available on a two or three year contract, and a data plan must also be purchased (data plans in Canada aren’t cheap)."

That's what I figured. It might actually matter if Rogers decides to give us mere mortals affordable plans.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Rogers already offers unlimited data with a blackberry for $90 a month INCLUDING 350 minutes airtime, free weekends etc. That isn't bad at all.

Don't know what they would consider "unlimited" but I know it is over 100 megs.

That's pretty good, but you must have gotten some killer deal. Here are the current Blackbery plans:

Monthly Fee BlackBerry Data Included Additional Data Rate
$25 0.5 MB* $31 per MB
$40 1 MB $10 per MB
$45 1 + 1 MB $10 per MB
$60 25 MB** $7 per MB
$65 25 + 25 MB** $7 per MB
$100 200 MB $5 per MB

Voice calls are $1.00 per minute (if voice plan is not subscribed to separately).

So $100 per month for 200 MB, without any voice support.

BTW, I can go through 100 MB in a few minutes of surfing, at broadband speeds, with images. Mind you, with Rogers, it will be EDGE only, so that kind of usage is impossible. Still 100 MB is not much. 200 MB isn't that much over the course of a month either if you use it all the time.

I'd prefer not to have to worry about hitting the 200 MB limit, especially with an iPhone, which has a full web browser.

Maybe in 2008 Rogers will give us a UMTS iPhone with unlimited data and 360 minutes voice for CAD$95 per month, but I'm not counting on it.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

"I’m also told the iPhone will be available on a two or three year contract, and a data plan must also be purchased (data plans in Canada aren’t cheap)."

No biggie. BB data plans are much higher than regular data plans anyway.

The BB's also don't work for email or surfing on a regular data plan, you NEED a BB data plan.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

iPhone & LG KE850: separated at birth? - Engadget

"Separated at birth, or possible lawsuit number two for Apple? You decide. "

Heck, with more than 200 patents on Apple's side, if they can't find a way to sue them, they really dropped the ball.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Doesn't matter, it isn't 1/10 as cool.

Plenty of iPods wannabe's on the market but iPod is still #1 with lower specs.

That LG phone doesn't look even remotely like an iPod wannabe to me.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

That LG phone doesn't look even remotely like an iPod wannabe to me.

I didn't say it did.

I said the iPod is #1 by a long shot even though there are a million copies out there with better guts.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I knew the only provider in Canada would be ROGERS for this phone:
"Apple’s New iPhone Availability in Canada?" by John Wiseman

Good cuz that is who I am with

This is hardly a confirmation. This is just some dude with a blog, claiming to have spoken to Rogers representatives he fails to name.

Although the likelihood of all or part of what he said to be true is quite high (Rogers is the only plausible GSM carrier up here), this should not be taken as an official confirmation as the MacNN or the Electronista articles are currently making it out to be. I'll believe it when i see a press release.

I wouldn't mind switching to Rogers since I could bundle it with everything else (landline, internet, cable), but I really wish we had number portability up here though.

I hope that a data plan is not a necessity to sign up for the iPhone as he states. I sure don't need it. Or at least provide a plan where EDGE access is a la carte, because I can only see myself using google maps once in a while.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

No biggie. BB data plans are much higher than regular data plans anyway.

The BB's also don't work for email or surfing on a regular data plan, you NEED a BB data plan.

See above for costs of Blackberry plans. They are insanely expensive. You must have got lucky, because you were an existing Rogers customer, and a long-time one.

They certainly aren't going to win many new converts if their plans don't get any better for new customers.

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Rogers is the only plausible GSM carrier up here

Ironically, Fido used to have reasonably priced unlimited data plans... until they got bought out by Rogers.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I didn't say it did.

I said the iPod is #1 by a long shot even though there are a million copies out there with better guts.

Your point being that the iPhone may end up being #1 by a long shot even if there are a million copies (even though the LG was presented first) out there with better guts?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Your point being that the iPhone may end up being #1 by a long shot even if there are a million copies (even though the LG was presented first) out there with better guts?

I would say that would be a safe bet, judging by how the iPod has performed with all the clones and copies of it out on the market, most with more features etc. Apple knows how to do things right, regardless of what some might think of lacking features. There's more to a device than the features. A lot more.

[goMac]

I'm upset there is no 3rd party apps, but there are these problems with developing 3rd party apps:

1) The iPhone likely does not use a PPC or x86 processor. This would make it very hard to build and test applications in XCode. You'd basically need an emulator.
2) The iPhone uses a different UI framework than the Macintosh. How would you test an iPhone app on the Macintosh?
3) The Macintosh takes one point of input at a time. The iPhone is a multitouch device, taking multiple points of input at once, meaning testing an iPhone app on the Macintosh that uses multitouch would be difficult.

Issues 1 and 2 could be addressed with an emulator, but I'm sure Apple wouldn't be too happy about making an iPhone emulator available. Issue 3 can't be addressed on the Macintosh. What they really need to do is work out a way to put the iPhone into slave mode, where when building an iPhone application on the Macintosh, the Macintosh will move the app over to the developers iPhone automatically and open a remote debugging session.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

See above for costs of Blackberry plans. They are insanely expensive. You must have got lucky, because you were an existing Rogers customer, and a long-time one.

No I took a standard plan of $20 a month for 2 megs.

BB data plans are less KB than normal because they use proxies, caching, encryption and compression so you do more for less KB.

Anyway, the iPhone isn't going to use BB data plans just the norm and things will be better than.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm upset there is no 3rd party apps, but there are these problems with developing 3rd party apps:

1) The iPhone likely does not use a PPC or x86 processor. This would make it very hard to build and test applications in XCode. You'd basically need an emulator.
2) The iPhone uses a different UI framework than the Macintosh. How would you test an iPhone app on the Macintosh?
3) The Macintosh takes one point of input at a time. The iPhone is a multitouch device, taking multiple points of input at once, meaning testing an iPhone app on the Macintosh that uses multitouch would be difficult.

Issues 1 and 2 could be addressed with an emulator, but I'm sure Apple wouldn't be too happy about making an iPhone emulator available. Issue 3 can't be addressed on the Macintosh. What they really need to do is work out a way to put the iPhone into slave mode, where when building an iPhone application on the Macintosh, the Macintosh will move the app over to the developers iPhone automatically and open a remote debugging session.

IIRC, other vendors provide emulators.

Furthermore, they provide a Java platform for applications.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

No, with other phones they do not work with NO card in it but if you put a card from another carrier in them they work for everything but the cellular features.

Oh I see, I misunderstood then my bad

That does indeed suck. Seems strange to me. Locked cellphones linked to SIMs are illegal in Belgium so they better change that.

[kmkkid]

I'm paying $70/mo now without any data plan so I'd pay up to $100 if it included voice and unlimited data. I'm not paying more for snail slow internet than I am for my fast highspeed landline. That's idiotic, even if it is wireless.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Right on the money (except for that ambidextrous comment).

Very cool phone implementation, but it is missing some pretty significant stuff for a phone of that price range. That will come over time though, not the least of which is 3G in 2008.

I'm guessing they'll have Flash support on the final build. Probably no Java though.

I'm wondering if the iChat thing has something to do with whatever contract Apple signed with AOL for iChat. They may have only agreed that Apple could build an iChat client for the Macintosh, and may need another agreement for the iPhone.

[kmkkid]

If apple wont allow 3rd party widgets, they better damn well be including java so we can use java apps like the rest of the cell market can.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Probably no Java though.

What are you basing that opinion on? Every other phone has Java these days. OS X has Java. Why shouldn't the iPhone?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I would say that would be a safe bet, judging by how the iPod has performed with all the clones and copies of it out on the market, most with more features etc. Apple knows how to do things right, regardless of what some might think of lacking features. There's more to a device than the features. A lot more.

Except that in the case of the iPhone, it's Apple playing catch-up.

[Dark Helmet]

The iPhone WILL allow 3rd party support by the end of the year if Apple wants it or not.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

What are you basing that opinion on? Every other phone has Java these days. OS X has Java. Why shouldn't the iPhone?

I really doubt Apple is going to care about Java apps on the iPhone. Java can't handle multitouch, and most Java cell phones apps are going to look awful on the iPhone. Apple, if they open up the floodgates for 3rd party support, are going to want native apps. Fortunately they have the marketing power to get them.

[Dark Helmet]

some camera deets:

Al-Manazir: What About the Apple iPhone Camera?

I just want to know about the flash if it even has one.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by kman42 

I thought I read that the maps did use GPS. Don't all phones have GPS now?

No, where do you get this idea from ?

-t

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

The iPhone WILL allow 3rd party support by the end of the year if Apple wants it or not.

Sez who?

I do agree it is highly desirable though.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

some camera deets:

Al-Manazir: What About the Apple iPhone Camera?

"I think we can expect that the iPhone will provide a decent camera that will compare to Nokia and Sony Ericssons current 2Mp Camera phones in image quality."

If true, that means the camera will suck. I didn't expect any different though.