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Skypat · Nov 4, 2003, 01:05 PM

All that white spot issue ... spreading everywhere, even in the press ... the 2-3-week-delay to get a (defective ?) powerbook on the Apple store ...

Who would accept that except us : mac fanatics

The launch of the 15" powerbook seems to be a failure. And that must be a real catastrophy for Apple. The 15" is such an important product. I wonder how they will be able to get credibility again with that product.

ProLyfic · Nov 4, 2003, 02:08 PM

Apple should do the right thing and recall ALL 15 inch Al Powerbooks for refunds. Apple may lose tons of money but its either that or the faith from the loyal Apple customers who actually bought the machine. So its either lose a little now or not sell machines later on; especially Rev A machines.

xylon · Nov 4, 2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by ProLyfic:
Apple should do the right thing and recall ALL 15 inch Al Powerbooks for refunds. Apple may lose tons of money but its either that or the faith from the loyal Apple customers who actually bought the machine. So its either lose a little now or not sell machines later on; especially Rev A machines.

Hmmm, can't say I agree. That'd be a nightmare for Apple and we'd probably see a decline in the number of switchers. Why would a switcher want to get a PB when all they see in the news is Apple recalling products? Yes it is a problem, but the ramifications of a complete recall would wreak more havoc on Apple's reputaiton than is currently being wrought now.

So Apple has to play the cards it's been given, which means that we'll have to tough this one out. Damn our loyalty.

Tomster · Nov 4, 2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by xylon:
Damn our loyalty.

We are loyal though. I had a 5300....

iPond317 · Nov 4, 2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Tomster:
We are loyal though. I had a 5300....

Haha, that's pretty loyal, but how about a IIe?! Yeah, I had one of those... I also had a PowerMac 7200/90, then traded up to a bondi iMac and now have a TiBook400.

kjo · Nov 4, 2003, 09:24 PM

Hey, my 15" PB is perfect and I've had it since Sept. 24. I've posted this fact a couple of times here, trying to represent the silent majority (I hope) of PB owners who are absolutely thrilled with their purchases. I feel badly that so many people are having problems, but I also suspect that a lot of people have gotten perfect PBs and have no reason to read or post at this forum.

No catastrophe here. I LOVE mine!

Grrr · Nov 4, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by ProLyfic:
Apple should do the right thing and recall ALL 15 inch Al Powerbooks for refunds. Apple may lose tons of money but its either that or the faith from the loyal Apple customers who actually bought the machine. So its either lose a little now or not sell machines later on; especially Rev A machines.

That has to be some of the most ridiculous crap I ever read on here.
Not so long ago there was a poll posted on here, which showed that while far too many 15" AlPB's did have faults, MOST of them (60% or so if I remember rightly) were perfectly fine. Who is going to want to send their perfectly good PB back to Apple?

Where is the sense in that?

Clearly Apple are perfectly aware there is a serious issue with many 15" pb's. But it's in their own interests to get them fixed, as well as their customers. And from what I have read, Apple seem to be more than content to deal with problems just as quickly as they can. Can't argue with that, even if in an ideal world, it should not have happened in the 1st place.

forcelite · Nov 4, 2003, 11:23 PM

I just dont understand why apple doesnt beta test these machines more. Using them in the real world and such.

I know secrecy is the keyword for apple, but they could do it ingonito, even just have regualy unix on it so know one would know its an apple. They would not have to put the apple sign anywhere, just the basic case.

They would have to do this in a large batch in order to get relaible feedback.

I really dont know the best way to go about a new product but there has to be a better way then this.

ProLyfic · 02:35 AM

I meant to say all 15 Al with the white spots that feel that they got crapped on by Apple. I am sure that there are 15 Powerbooks that have no issues. Those people can keep them. I mean there is a 10 or 14 day return policy even though this white spot issue may take up to a month to develop. I don't care if Apple is trying to fix it or not. If someone is willing to fork out $2500.00 plus for a machine that may have problems, thats just ridiculous espically coming from a company who wants people to make the switch. They thrive on how great their hardware and software is. Sure OS X kicks ass but with the 15 AL, it looks like SOME just came out an ass by the quality. Apple may know perfectly about this problem...but still believes that there is no problem. Nothing in the Knowledge Base. Apple should do what car companies do. Do numerous tests on pre-production models. Just cover all logos. Then test the crap out of it. I am not hating on Apple, heck I think Apples are better than PCs, way better, but to put out a LCD display on the top selling model laptop in the line-up that has issues is just not right. I mean I thought Apples were geared toward graphics and video editing...with white spots, thats just not gonna happen.

brachiator · Nov 5, 2003, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Grrr:
That has to be some of the most ridiculous crap I ever read on here.
Not so long ago there was a poll posted on here, which showed that while far too many 15" AlPB's did have faults, MOST of them (60% or so if I remember rightly) were perfectly fine. Who is going to want to send their perfectly good PB back to Apple? Where is the sense in that?

I hope that you were setting up a straw man here... No recall is mandatory to the consumer. The idea, as I would see it, is rather that Apple simply set its policy for no-questions/no-hassle refund or replacement of all 15" AlBooks, instead of case by case monkey business.

A 60% defect rate is horrific.

It situation will certainly give me pause in shopping for a new Pbook, and make the process quite a pain. A shop like CompUSA with a no-hassle replacement plan (even if costing extra) will likely get my business, rather than the online Apple Store, or a retail Apple Store, with which I might have to struggle to get a defective 'book made right. That's lost margin to Apple, which could have gotten the retail sale itself, if it could be trusted.

ProLyfic · Nov 5, 2003, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by brachiator:
I hope that you were setting up a straw man here... No recall is mandatory to the consumer. The idea, as I would see it, is rather that Apple simply set its policy for no-questions/no-hassle refund or replacement of all 15" AlBooks, instead of case by case monkey business.

A 60% defect rate is horrific.

It situation will certainly give me pause in shopping for a new Pbook, and make the process quite a pain. A shop like CompUSA with a no-hassle replacement plan (even if costing extra) will likely get my business, rather than the online Apple Store, or a retail Apple Store, with which I might have to struggle to get a defective 'book made right. That's lost margin to Apple, which could have gotten the retail sale itself, if it could be trusted.

Yeah that is what I meant. Apple can set up a program like the one mention. I bet there would be a lot of happy 15 AL owners or future ex-owners.

jendmb34 · Nov 5, 2003, 08:09 AM

i'm contemplating switching to macs and i wanted a 15" pb. i played with one at an apple store for a few hours, and i was pratically sold. now that i read about all of the issues on here, i'm very skeptical.

BlueCat · Nov 5, 2003, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by jendmb34:
i'm contemplating switching to macs and i wanted a 15" pb. i played with one at an apple store for a few hours, and i was pratically sold. now that i read about all of the issues on here, i'm very skeptical.

Just do it

I was in the same boat as you. Reading about the various possible flaws that people had observed left me some concern but at the end of it, my desire to get a Mac and move to OS X was too great. Unless you get a total lemon, which I don't think there's that many out there, a white-spot infected screen can be replaced! Although I've been lucky so far and have not developed any white spots (one week in - touch wood!), I could quite confidently say that even if I did get white spots, it wouldn't be enough to take away my enjoyment of the machine and the OS.

threestain · Nov 5, 2003, 08:40 AM

Its very much worth the change - for all the problems, the majority of pbs are fine, and also if you buy one now, you are into at least the second run of production - the incidence defects is decreasing right now. Plus, at least you know that any wait for a new one will be regained by the sheer productivity increase with os X!

jasong · Nov 5, 2003, 08:53 AM

A 60% defect rate is horrific.

Yup, however it was a 60% happy rate, not defect. Which you realize means that less than 40% are defective, since most of the happy people aren't going to bother to post. I don't know what an acceptable defect rate for a computer line is, and I am not trying to minimize the problem, but we also shouldn't make it out to be larger than it is.

Apple has acknowledged the issue, they will fix it. Breathe people.

-- Jason

CobraNT · Nov 5, 2003, 09:28 AM

I think Apple is doing their best to resolve the issues. What a lot of people don't realize is Apple can't just fix the issues over night. Even is only 10% of the 15AI's have issues, think how many PB's that could be, 20,000 - 30,000? If they have that many units with problems do you think they can resolve the issue in a week? No, they can't. Once they find the cause, think about the logistics involved in repairing or replacing that many laptops. Even if they offer the consumer a new laptop, it takes time to build that many. If they are going to just repair them, they need to order the new parts, arrange the service techs to do the repairs, and put the RMA procedures in place.
I can see this whole process taking 3-4 months easy from the time they find the exact cause.
A complete recall is not the answer right now, but maybe a press release stating they are working on the issue and the customers should call Applecare to be put on a list of known users with issues. OH WAIT.....they have already done that.............

macwalk · Nov 5, 2003, 09:39 AM

I think the worst thing they could do is recall ALL the 15 inch powerbooks. because after all they are not the biiggest name in the industry. People already look at apple computers like they are inferior machines. If you recall all the 15's then that will solidify that fact in everyones mind, even those pc fanatics who may have thought of switching.

In actuality after seeing a powerbook with these notorious white spots, it didn't really bother me all that much. Once the screen was on i pretty much forgot about it.

The friend of mine who had one wasn't too upset about it like many other people are.

Granted I blew up on all the infernal "White SPot" posts without seeing them, but after seeing whhat tey were I still think it doesn't really matter that much.

I mean i remember the old Pismo I had actually hhad them as well but i didn't really care that much, but hey thats me!

Anyway I think Apple is handling the situation properly because in all honesty every machine doesn't hhave whte spots so whhy bother drawing undue attention to yourself. Fix the problems and roll on

dennis88 · Nov 5, 2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by macwalk:
I think the worst thing they could do is recall ALL the 15 inch powerbooks. because after all they are not the biiggest name in the industry. People already look at apple computers like they are inferior machines. If you recall all the 15's then that will solidify that fact in everyones mind, even those pc fanatics who may have thought of switching.

In actuality after seeing a powerbook with these notorious white spots, it didn't really bother me all that much. Once the screen was on i pretty much forgot about it.

The friend of mine who had one wasn't too upset about it like many other people are.

Granted I blew up on all the infernal "White SPot" posts without seeing them, but after seeing whhat tey were I still think it doesn't really matter that much.

I mean i remember the old Pismo I had actually hhad them as well but i didn't really care that much, but hey thats me!

Anyway I think Apple is handling the situation properly because in all honesty every machine doesn't hhave whte spots so whhy bother drawing undue attention to yourself. Fix the problems and roll on

Very good said.
I have had my powerbook 15" for over a month now, and I don't have any whitespots.
But all this posts I read makes me feel bad about my purchase, because I'm afraid to get the whitespots.
But on the other side, I don't think the whitespots is that annoying.
I have a red stuck pixel in the left upper corner, but I don't care about it.
But I know that if I saw all this posts about "red stuck pixel!!" or "apple are holding the pb back because of red stuck pixel" it would freak me out and the pixel would start to annoy me.

PBG4 User · Nov 5, 2003, 10:13 AM

I picked up my PB on 20-Sep. I haven't had any LCD or latch issues (knock on wood!).

dennis88 · Nov 5, 2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by PBG4 User:
I picked up my PB on 20-Sep. I haven't had any LCD or latch issues (knock on wood!).

Finally some good news!
Do you move your powerbook or take it with you a lot?

Thanks!

macwalk · Nov 5, 2003, 02:13 PM

I have had my powerbook a day after they released them and I have no stuck pixels or whitespots. I carry it to work EVERY SINGLE DAY in an OLD laptop bag from like 1995!

I thhink in all honesty maybe there is a 15% to 25% defect rate (just a guess), even if its that high.
You also see thhe same thing happen to gateways and dells as well bbut no one talks about it.

The guy at work next to me right now just bought a compaq, brand new, and his screen is askew. One side is significantly higher than the other/ So I asked him why doesn't he send it back? He said I didn't really notice it, until someone pointed it out to me so obviously its no big deal.

I think that is the problem here as well, tooooo many people talked about how bad the nnew 15 is because of thhe mere whitespots, but fail to focus in on the sleek operating system, the overall speed of te machine etc...

Not to mention the fact that everyone whinned to get the new 15 out as fast as possible, and they did. So now deal with it, or send it ack and get a new one. but as for the recalls and getting refunds thhat will never happen and shouldn't

dennis88 · Nov 5, 2003, 02:23 PM

Macwalk, thank you for confirming that people that move their pb a lot doesn't have whitespots!

Now my happiness is back! lol

ProLyfic · Nov 5, 2003, 03:28 PM

Gee, a lot of people are really sticking through with Apple with this. People are saying that it is the comsumers fault for wanting a Apple and that you should live with it. Thats good to know. Sure Apple is willing to "fix" the problem but should the problem been there in the first place and when the LCDs are fixed are you going to feel the same about your "brand new" laptop that you had to send away after only owning it for like 2 weeks or so. Does anyone have that feeling that something else may go wrong? Oh well, for those complaining about those people complaining to Apple, I hope your 15 AL stays defective free, and if it doesn't I hope you take your own advice and live with it, I mean it is a $2500.00+ machine, I'm pretty sure you'll get over it.

macwalk · Nov 5, 2003, 03:52 PM

Well Prolyfic,

all anger aside and not to open old wounds I must admit thhat i have had defects in the past with my mac's and yes I dealt with it.

It is unfortunate but i feel that apple i sthe only major company who tries to truly please there userbase. Such as the "scheduled releases etc... they do this for thheir selected userbase wether people want to admit that or not, I know that is the case. (As some Apple employees will atest to).

Needless to say that is part of te reason for the problems with the 15 inchers, but hhey they are out there and there is nothing anyone can do if they get a defective powerbook but SEND IT BACK.

I can't say I feel bad for thhose who did get one that was defective, but I have used apples my entire life, not to mention the old NeXT machines that were out there.

The dos days some apples had problems the 6 - 9 operating systems had problems and the machines Lack of hardware and software was infuriating.

But we stuck behind apple cuz we knew that apple had something that was gonnna be great. Now all of a sudden they have a problem and people act like the world is gonna explode over a whitespot. I understand your dissappointment though, but i just want you to remember how many future macophilies you are turning away from the greatest machines in the world.

But those of us ran Photoshop 2.5 on the SE30's will never bbadmouth the way these folks do. thats why I get so upset but, I am just a loser as already mentioned in the personal messages from the many disgruntled WhiteSpot owners.

Yet and still i still have to stick up for the 13 people on the board who saw it my way and thought enough tto tell me so!

brachiator · Nov 5, 2003, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by jasong:
Yup, however it was a 60% happy rate, not defect. Which you realize means that less than 40% are defective, since most of the happy people aren't going to bother to post. I don't know what an acceptable defect rate for a computer line is, and I am not trying to minimize the problem, but we also shouldn't make it out to be larger than it is.

Apple has acknowledged the issue, they will fix it. Breathe people.

-- Jason

Whoops -- talk about setting up straw men!

I meant 40% defect rate... sorry, wasn't trying to pull a "Fox News" here.

I agree that the actual defect rate would be lower if the sample used was complaints on the board.

Regardless, I don't think that the term "RECALL" is appropriate to use here. Apple need simply institute a no-hassle, quick-turnaround, make-it-right return policy. Recalls are for safety problems, really -- when you want to get something out of the market because its defects are so dangerous. The only danger here is to Mac purchasers' wallets, loyalty, and Apple's marketshare!

CobraNT · Nov 5, 2003, 10:35 PM

Everyone makes it sound like Apple has never had White Spots on previous models. I have a G4 800 PB and it has 3 white spots. My Thinkpad has 4 and a dead pixel. LCD's are prone to this type of issue. I rarely notice them.

LfGrdMike · Nov 5, 2003, 10:58 PM

**** happens all of you will get over it trust me lol. The price one pays for buying in the first 3 months a rev a was released. Makes you feel like a test subject doesn't it.

Anyway I hope all of you get your problem solved soon but be rest assured Apple is working on it. Let them get it right. Otherwise if they claim the fixed it and it ain't fix everyone will be complaining again.

romeosc · Nov 5, 2003, 11:06 PM

The white spots are bad PR but worse is the DATA LOSS with Firewire 800 (& now 400) drives & Panther. If this is not corrected soon.... everyone will be afraid to upgrade!

They may have had mock up 15" PB to check out but when they went into production the white spots appeared! Unless someone noted them, many people would not have noticed them!

xylon · Nov 5, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by ProLyfic:
Gee, a lot of people are really sticking through with Apple with this. People are saying that it is the comsumers fault for wanting a Apple and that you should live with it. Thats good to know. Sure Apple is willing to "fix" the problem but should the problem been there in the first place and when the LCDs are fixed are you going to feel the same about your "brand new" laptop that you had to send away after only owning it for like 2 weeks or so. Does anyone have that feeling that something else may go wrong? Oh well, for those complaining about those people complaining to Apple, I hope your 15 AL stays defective free, and if it doesn't I hope you take your own advice and live with it, I mean it is a $2500.00+ machine, I'm pretty sure you'll get over it.

Now this I agree with. It's in Apple's best interest to provide laptops that are free from defects, one could almost say it's a responsibility. We shouldn't have ever seen a problem...unfortunately Apple dropped the ball here and must deal with the consequences. Of course, the consequences are slightly lessened because they have such a loyal customer base, but Apple must be feeling the effects in the switcher market. Here's to a speedy solution.

I think romeosc brings up a good point. Another serious problem has arisen. However, my feeling is that it will be eclipsed by the already established white spot problem.

Here's to speedy solutions.

TheIceMan · Nov 6, 2003, 02:19 AM

xylon & ProLyfic:
You both bring up valid concerns. See my post about Apple's poor quality assurance and its failure to acknowledge mistakes.

macwalk · Nov 6, 2003, 10:59 AM

Wow look at that!

The Admins are trying to shutdwn all the babbling about the whitespots.

Its funny that last week I started a thread about so many whitespot complainers and a few people attacked me and said I was out of line.

Well go ahead and have the balls to attack the admin now!

ProLyfic · Nov 6, 2003, 01:31 PM

Macwalk, they actually did it the right way without the bullsh*t you posted along with it last week.

macwalk · Nov 6, 2003, 04:27 PM

hmmm, i like watching peopple cower in the face of admins. Yes keep attacking and berating me, thats reaaaaal cool

ProLyfic · 04:46 PM

How am I cowarding from the Mods? Please tell me. For one thing, no one is going to listen to someone with a hundred posts on whether or not to post about white spots. You don't run this forum. Since ADMIN. MODS posted a thread that said there should be no more posts about white spots, than I can respect that because they are AUTHORIZED to do so unlike some hypocrite, but thats okay. How was I even attacking you in this post, you were the one that wanted to start sh*t by talking sh*t to those that flammed your ass last week. Now that you have some one to back up your post, you can talk all you want but what happened last week, seems like after a few posts by other members, you disappeared...funny.

macwalk · Nov 6, 2003, 06:25 PM

actually i posted a few times last week as well.
But hey its okay, to lash out at me, I don't mind. I think its all about Karma, you have whitespots on your powerbook because you are evil, and God is punishing you for being a MOD lover.

It's funny I suggest you stop with the annoying posts and you call me a bitc*, one of the almighty mods tells you too and you cowar like a bitc*.

It is a typical case of MOD love and hey its ok, don't worry about it.

I suppose if some 12 years old told you to remove your hand from a hot stove you will call hima bitch and tell him to shut up cuz he is too young.

But if someone older told you too you would listen. And in all honesty i guess your line of reasoning makes sense to others like you.

ProLyfic · Nov 6, 2003, 10:48 PM

LOL. Man you are a hypocrite. This guy! Talking about MOD love, did you read your last 2 posts about the MODs and ADMIN. You were practically riding their Jock. Get your things straight. You are a complete dumbass. Oh yeah I don't have a Powerbook with whitespots, but I am well off so I guess "GOD" does love me. You are the one that started this little "feud" in this particular thread. So why don't you stop with the posts and read your own before commenting on others. So lets just stop this little game and get back to the topic. I'm through with you.

SMacSteve · Nov 8, 2003, 11:45 AM

I would suggest that if your contemplating a 15" PB purchase to concider getting it from your local Comp USA. The reason? They will sell you a screen damage replacement for $149 for 2 yrs, and $249 for 3yrs. You must buy AppleCare to be able to get the plan, but if you have any issues they'll replace the screen. No BS! You'd be smart to get it any ways as the screen isn't covered by AppleCare for any thing other than manufactures defects. Besides, if you have any white spots appear within the first month they'd problably replace the whole unit. Their return period is 14 days however, but they have been known to make exceptions. Especially if you've got the screen damage replacement plan. They love those customers!

Crusoe · Nov 8, 2003, 12:44 PM

Well mine out of the box has the #4 area white spot (based on macfixits jpeg) but worse than that I have 8 pixels stuck on white in a cresent shape.

It was a CTO ordered on the the 20th of Oct. I love it but it's the first bad screen I've had in now 7 laptops and the first thing I've ever had to send in for warranty service. . .blech. I'm going to wait till at least early December to send it in. Hope they get things worked about by then.

Recall no, fixit and $100 coupon would ease my pain and suffering.

WSE · Nov 14, 2003, 11:15 AM

I walked my white-spotted Powerbook G4 into the Genius Bar at the Apple Store where I bought it on Nov 4th. It is Nov 14th and I just called Apple Repair status. They have no idea when the LCD screens will arrive, they are on backorder.

All they could do was apologize for the delay.

This is stupid. If I knew there were no screens I would have kept the computer and used it until Apple could repair it.

Any out there getting their screens repaired quickly?

iloveloosey · Nov 14, 2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by SMacSteve:
I would suggest that if your contemplating a 15" PB purchase to concider getting it from your local Comp USA. The reason? They will sell you a screen damage replacement for $149 for 2 yrs, and $249 for 3yrs. You must buy AppleCare to be able to get the plan, but if you have any issues they'll replace the screen. No BS! You'd be smart to get it any ways as the screen isn't covered by AppleCare for any thing other than manufactures defects. Besides, if you have any white spots appear within the first month they'd problably replace the whole unit. Their return period is 14 days however, but they have been known to make exceptions. Especially if you've got the screen damage replacement plan. They love those customers!

hmm. this is very interesting. i'm curious no one has mentioned this before. is it possible to use an edu discount at compusa? that would be ideal...