[dennis88]

Originally posted by jamesa:
You know what irritates me more? People who get on these boards and act like they know everything, when really they just sound like they know everything.

The ATI Radeon 9700 does not have to be fixed at a set clock speed. The clock speed can be varied on the fly. By the chip. So if temp or battery life is too negatively affected, guess what? Just drop the clock speed, on the fly.

Don't believe me? Go search for PowerPlay on the ATI website.



That's the other thing about Apple apologists - they only admit Apple mistakes that Apple have admitted themselves!

Look, I'm not going to keep having a go at you because I don't really believe you're a true breed of Apple apologist. I think you differ in opinion to me, but don't fly off at me and say I'm a whining troll. I'm not - I'm just wishing that Apple would offer a Pro powerbook instead of taking the easy route, which is to take the iBook logic board and stick it in an aluminium case.

Finally, I wouldn't mind paying more for the 9700. But at the moment, there's not a heap that Apple's doing to differentiate the cost of the 12" iBook and the 12" Powerbook. Just fixing the graphics card and the ethernet would be enough to totally push me over the line.

Just so nobody even dreams I'm a troll, I think the 15" and 17" are now great machines with the update - especially the graphics card. The 15" is so good that I'm tempted to compromise the portability I need just to get the functionality I'm after.

-- james

I know very well of the powerplay feature, BUT the powerbook 15" and 17" still have to be clocked lower than bigger desktop replacements at their highest.
You don't know how bad cooling this ati mobility 9600 and mobility 9700 chips have.
They could never be clocked as high as the desktop replacements because they are only about one inch thick, and heat would damage compnents.
It could be clocked high when doing light tasks as internet and itunes, but what is the point with that? In games the card will run so hot that it can't be clocked high with the powerplay feature for more than 10 minutes anyway.
the powerplay feature is to "save" battery, but it doesn't work effeciently yet. maybe 15 minutes saved on the battery while gaming...With 10 fps compared to the 30+ with normal settings.

And if you think they could put a ati mobility 9700 in a 12" powerbook, go to bed and have a nice dream, it's not possible at this day, without serious heating problems.

YOU are the one who should read a bit, before you say you know so much...

[JHromadka]

Originally posted by dividend:
hmm, on a second thought - do pc notebooks have this as well; how can one tell?

In Apple's KB article I mentioned, it says this:

Auto-MDIX automatically switches between MDI and MDI-X, which allows either type of cable to be connected regardless of whether you are connecting two computers directly, or you are connecting to a hub or switch. MDI devices connected to Auto-MDIX devices do not require a crossover Ethernet cable.

Based on the part in italics, if your Mac is Auto-MDIX, it won't matter what the PC is. I've transfered files betwen my TiBook and an IBM laptop using this method, and I never looked up whether the IBM could handle it or not.

It works really well. Just give the two computers IP addresses on the same subnet (i.e. 192.168.2.1 and 192.168.2.2).

[Olorin]

As long as the 12" PowerBook has at least 64MB VRAM and a decent GPU I am happy in that areas. The difference between 1.33 and 1.5Ghz is not enough to really complain. FireWire 800 probably should be included. I say take a USB port out and add a FireWire 800 port instead. The only thing that pisses me off is having the built in 256MB of ram. This is an obvious ploy to not allow the same amount of RAM as the higher models and a rather retarded one as well. It really makes me mad. Besides that the 12" is a good notebook. I am glad apple went ahead and put the fastest bus possible. lol the G4 really needs that extra 33mhz.

Whatever happened to the 200Mhz bus the 7447 was supposed to have?

[dividend]

JHromadka:

thanx again, but what i ment was do pc notebooks also have this. Of course, it doesn't matter when connected to one that does.... but it is usual for pc's to have it, like is it more or less standard nowadays, or is this one of the nice small thiings with apple?

[Michel_80]

I don't think the 12 is limited in any way. When comparing to 12 offerings from other manufacturers the Powerbook is head and shoulders above the rest (and cheaper as well, especially with the edu discount, by at least 50%).

[jamesa]

Originally posted by dennis88:

You don't know how bad cooling this ati mobility 9600 and mobility 9700 chips have.

...

And if you think they could put a ati mobility 9700 in a 12" powerbook, go to bed and have a nice dream, it's not possible at this day, without serious heating problems.

YOU are the one who should read a bit, before you say you know so much...

I'm not reading. I'm asking a friend who is part of the team that designs computers for quite a *big* computer company (not Apple, though). He's got access to the 9700 mobility specs, and from what I described (and showed him on the Apple developer site) of the 12" he thinks they could put the 9700 in if they wanted. They're on a 130nm process ffs, the heat isn't anywhere near as much an issue as you make out.

He also came to the conclusion that they're not, not because of heat, but so as to ensure nVidia keeps their mac drivers up to date. No new graphics card shipping in the market, less people writing drivers. Obviously, this is just speculation, but it makes sense to me.

-- james

[Defiant Jazz]

No backlit keyboard on the 12" PowerBook? I guess BT won't be gettin' all sycophantic anymore...

[kdixey]

About the powerbook being a glorified ibook...

Well, in some ways you're right it is essentially the souped up version of the ibook, but oddly enough I find that this new update makes a much larger distinction betyween the 12" powerbook and the 12" ibook.

If you configure the machines the same way (60gb HD, same RAM, bluetooth and Airport Extreme) with my edu discount there is about $150 difference between them ($250 regular price). The fact that the powerbook comes standard with Airport Extreme, Bluetooth and 2X larger HD is the difference. I think the extra money seems a bargain for the extra VRAM, faster processor and video out.

Truthfully, I thought the RevB powerbook was much closer to the ibook than the RevC is. I would love to see the 12" powerbook sport a backlit keyboard, FW800 and a better video card, but I wouldn't call the current powerbook "hamstrung" its quite a capable machine.

[slider]

I have the 15 PB and, while nice, I don't see the backlit keyboard as a make or break thing. I had considered the 12" PB, but finally ruled it out b/c it did not have a pcmcia slot. I personnally thing the 12" as a really nice offering. DVI out, 64MB vid card, 1.33 G4, all in a super compact 12" design. My sister has a 12", I am always mistified at exactly how small it is. It sounds like you want a 15" powerbook in a 12" design, I think the 15" is packed pretty tight as it is.

[dannyillusion]

I actually need the backlit feature... and the lack of it is what's keeping me from upgrading.
I work as a film buyer for a tv channel and a lot of of my work is done while screening in the dark. Screenings often take place with other people around so I cannot keep the screen brightness at max without disturbing them.
Most of the time I can type without actually seeing the keyboard but it would be a great help to have the backlight as it is strining for the eyes to adjust it back and forth between the tv-screen/big screen and dimply lit keyboard.

Just my two cents...

Oh yeah, and I want a Radeon 9800 with 256 MB...
Oh oh yeah, I know I am an exception as most people have well lit working spaces...

[MikeD]

I need my PB on a day to day basis right now and the stinkin latch stuck in the lower part of the PB instead of retracting as it should have. Anyway, it's really annoying having to keep the lid shut when transporting it as the slightest 'give/release' that opens the lid up inadvertently wakes the computer up from sleep. I called a local apple repair place and they said it would take a week or so to get the thing fixed... Well, that time is pretty much having the computer sit there for a couple of days until someone can look at it, ordering parts, and then fixing it. I was even thinking about upgrading my computer (The new 12" and 15" look nice), getting this 12" AlBook fixed in the meantime, then selling it on ebay.... But I don't know if that's the best way of going about it. This latch thing really makes this PB seem really cheap. I mean, what if you drove a BMW and the door wouldn't stay shut. You could close it, then as you drove away, it just swung open again! (Actually, that did happen in my old 90 camry when it got way too cold!).

Any suggestions?

Mike

[dwood]

Actually most laptop repairs are done at a depot center in texas. So the typical time is usually 3-7 days. In a perfect world it gets sent they day it's taken in, if you bring it in early enough. It's over nighted, fixed, and overnighted back. If it's being done at a AASP, then you have a queue of machines that are ahead of you. If they're doing it in house see if you can work out a situation like.... can I bring it in this day in the morning and have it finished by that evening?

Originally posted by MikeD:
I need my PB on a day to day basis right now and the stinkin latch stuck in the lower part of the PB instead of retracting as it should have. Anyway, it's really annoying having to keep the lid shut when transporting it as the slightest 'give/release' that opens the lid up inadvertently wakes the computer up from sleep. I called a local apple repair place and they said it would take a week or so to get the thing fixed... Well, that time is pretty much having the computer sit there for a couple of days until someone can look at it, ordering parts, and then fixing it. I was even thinking about upgrading my computer (The new 12" and 15" look nice), getting this 12" AlBook fixed in the meantime, then selling it on ebay.... But I don't know if that's the best way of going about it. This latch thing really makes this PB seem really cheap. I mean, what if you drove a BMW and the door wouldn't stay shut. You could close it, then as you drove away, it just swung open again! (Actually, that did happen in my old 90 camry when it got way too cold!).

Any suggestions?

Mike

[dennis88]

@ jamesa

Well, you should go and tell your "friend" that he is wrong about the heat.
The fan on both the mobility cards is not good, and doesn't cool the card down enough.

One more thing, the ati cards in macs doesn't show it's strength like the nvidia cards using osx does, because nvidia is much better then ati in opengl, which is what osx uses.

So a fx5200go 64mb should be about as good as a mobility 9600 64mb on a mac, in opengl games (about all games are opengl on macs).

Again, the 12" powerbook is the 12" notebook with the best gpu yet, on the market.

[Cadaver]

I wanted something small as possible for portability - I've got a dual G5 at home for the serious work & occasional game.

The new 12" PowerBook is by far the best laptop deal available - Mac or PC.

Take a look at Dell for example. Dell doesn't sell a 12" form factor laptop (i.e., sub 5 lbs.) with an internal optical drive. Either they have external drives and ultra-crappy Intel interated graphics (and are substantially more expensive), or you have to go up to a 5+ lbs. 14" form factor. And they still can't beat the 12" PB's educational price of $1399 (yes, I'm looking at Dell's edu pricing as well).

I'm not making a "which is better, PC or Mac?" statement, merely pointing out that even though some people have complaints about how the 12" PB is configured relative to the other Apple PowerBooks, still realize its way better equipped than similarly sized and/or priced PC laptops.

[h00ligan]

man those pics are great.. doesn't look too bad to swap a hard drive, but i assume it would void the warranty?

are there any detailed disassembly pics out there?

[HAL9000]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
And guess what, WE'RE BOTH OFFENDED! Please for goodness sake stop shoving your "right of free speach" in other people's faces. It's rude, plain and simple, and don't give me that BS of oh well I shouldn't be on the internet...

Oh my gaawd... Get a grip, Superchic[k]en

I was under the impression that this is a Mac and not a PC forum, if you get my drift.

I am actually offended by your use of capital letters, although not that much, hence my use of lower case ones. There *really* are more important issues "out there" than questioning everyday language.