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Frans · 03:20 PM

Today for the third time in 2 weeks my MacBook crashed. Not the kind of crash in a program, no, the kind of crash where the screen goes black and the whole system spontaneously reboots. The first two times I didn't loose any data, but today I lost everything of the report I had been working on since yesterday evening, which is about 6 hours of working time. I was working on a report with a deadline tomorrom, so I am extremely pissed off.

The reason for the crash is always the same: a program that is automatically scheduled to start up, like BackUp, or Microsoft auto-updater tries to start up, the whole system collapses. When the computer has finished rebooting the program that caused the crash will start-up, asking if I really want the backup or the auto-update to continue.

It's worse than Windows, which is a pretty hard remark to make for someone who threw away his Sony Vaio two 18 months ago and changed to Mac. The last time I lost my data like this must have been ten years ago or more.

Wow, I am feeling so helpless, I had put down such great ideas in my document and everything was going in such a nice flow. AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Anyone having these crashes the same way I have?

And does anyone know where I can file bugs on the Apple website? Have searched the whole site, but there doesn't seem to be a place where you report a bug...

mavherzog · Jun 18, 2006, 08:53 AM

Sounds like you definitely need to be using a word processor with auto-save.

About the crashes...have you called Apple yet?

seanc · Jun 18, 2006, 08:58 AM

Your mac is rebooting on it's own?????!!! That should NOT happen. A kernel panic will tell you to reboot and an application crash will tell you xyz has unexpectedly quit, but the machine should NEVER just restart.

Sounds like you may have a hardware issue, have you run the Apple Hardware Test? Maybe your ram is faulty?

Frans · Jun 18, 2006, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by seanc

Your mac is rebooting on it's own?????!!! That should NOT happen. A kernel panic will tell you to reboot and an application crash will tell you xyz has unexpectedly quit, but the machine should NEVER just restart.

Sounds like you may have a hardware issue, have you run the Apple Hardware Test? Maybe your ram is faulty?

Hi Seanc, where can I find the test, is it on the Mac OSX DVD, or do I have to order it?

Frans · Jun 18, 2006, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by mavherzog

Sounds like you definitely need to be using a word processor with auto-save.

About the crashes...have you called Apple yet?

, the wordprocessor is supposed to have that, but somehow it did not work...

seanc · Jun 18, 2006, 09:17 AM

Pop in the mac os x install dvd, restart, hold down the option (alt) key and there should be an option for apple hardware test.

Frans · Jun 18, 2006, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by seanc

Pop in the mac os x install dvd, restart, hold down the option (alt) key and there should be an option for apple hardware test.

thx!

StevenWRX · Jun 18, 2006, 10:04 AM

Ive never had a mac crash on me. sorry about your loss, its gotta be frustrating to lose hours of work.

jamil5454 · Jun 18, 2006, 10:11 AM

The one time I had a Mac crash on me was my Power Mac DP 2.0 when I was recording audio and accidentally disconnected the audio interface

.

Frans · Jun 18, 2006, 10:41 AM

Hi there, ran the hardware test in 'extensive' mode, after quite some time the message was: No trouble found.

I've taken the memory cards out and put them back in again to make sure they were installed properly....

Any suggestions on next steps?

powerbook867 · Jun 18, 2006, 11:17 AM

Frans, what temp is you processor running at? Not saying it's a heat issue, but you never know. Coreduotemp will give you that number if you don't have it installed...

I see you have 2 gig of ram. Is this an upgrade or did it come that way from Apple? If it's an upgrade, have you thought about dropping back down to the 512 it came with to eliminate that as a potential issue? Even though the extensive HW test came up with nothing doesn't meant that some cheaper or iffy ram couldn't be the culprit...

I had something similar happen to me. Was trying to use Unrarx and the machine would completely stop responding. Have to think that might be a Rosetta issue.

I would go into Applications/utilities/disk utilities and go to first aid and do a repair permissions on the boot drive. Hope this helps a little..

mavherzog · Jun 18, 2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Frans

Hi there, ran the hardware test in 'extensive' mode, after quite some time the message was: No trouble found.

I've taken the memory cards out and put them back in again to make sure they were installed properly....

Any suggestions on next steps?

Yes. CALL APPLE!

Simon · Jun 18, 2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Frans

Any suggestions on next steps?

Since you already mentioned you checked the RAM and it passed the HWT, do you have any other hardware connected? USB memory? Peripherals?

Other than that, try this: Create a new user account. Do not take over any old preferences. Try using that for a while. Do the crashes still happen? If yes, clone the entire disk to another HDD. Boot from the install DVD, format the HD, re-install the OS. Do not use the migration assistant. Create a new user account. Does it still crash? If yes, maybe try using another install DVD. Does it still crash? If yes, it's hardware. Call Apple, send it in.

Hi I'm Ben · Jun 18, 2006, 12:36 PM

What kind of RAM is this anyway? Like exact specs. I'd certainly blame this on faulty memory or something wrong with the power.

Frans · Jun 18, 2006, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by powerbook867

Frans, what temp is you processor running at? Not saying it's a heat issue, but you never know. Coreduotemp will give you that number if you don't have it installed...

I see you have 2 gig of ram. Is this an upgrade or did it come that way from Apple? If it's an upgrade, have you thought about dropping back down to the 512 it came with to eliminate that as a potential issue? Even though the extensive HW test came up with nothing doesn't meant that some cheaper or iffy ram couldn't be the culprit...

I had something similar happen to me. Was trying to use Unrarx and the machine would completely stop responding. Have to think that might be a Rosetta issue.

I would go into Applications/utilities/disk utilities and go to first aid and do a repair permissions on the boot drive. Hope this helps a little..

Thx! Temperature is not a problem, when it crashed it was under 70ºC and I've had no excessive temperatures. Did the repair permissions. The RAM is an upgrade. I'll try to put in the old RAM and how that works out.

Going to try to simulate the crash again

Guy Kuo · Jun 18, 2006, 06:42 PM

My primary suspects....

1. RAM - even if it passed the hardware test. Bad RAM or improperly seated RAM.

2. Bad OS install - I'd save my documents to an external drive, wipe the drive clean and install OSX and the applications completely from scratch. Let the system update then fix permissions with Disk Utility. This is a lot of time and work, but it gets the system as stable as possible.

The system really should not crash like that. My Macs, including my MacBook are solid performers. I've only had one machine in 15 that had a repeated and uncorrectable crashing problem - a refurb mac Mini. That one definitely had a hardware fault. If the system is crashing, something is abnormal. Crashes are not the norm under OSX and on a Mac.

Frans · Jun 18, 2006, 07:16 PM

Hi again,

Many thx to you all for the feedback. The machine was clean installed when I got it 3 weeks ago, I didn't use the migration assistent to have as little old software as possible.

After the repair permissions I could not get the system to crash. So maybe that was it. It only happened for scheduled updates and/or backups, while connecting to the internet.

Let's see how it goes...

analogika · Jun 18, 2006, 07:17 PM

Take it in.

Don't bother futzing with it; something is wrong with the hardware.

icruise · Jun 18, 2006, 08:30 PM

I basically never have a system-wide crash, so I agree with other people in saying that you probably have bad RAM or bad hardware.

As for losing something that you were working on since the previous evening... Although it's probably hard to understand this now, this may be just the kind of wakeup call that you need to get you to save and backup more often. I save compulsively when I am working on any kind of document -- every few minutes I just press command + S. Even though I rarely have programs quit on me, it's very annoying when it does happen, and I'd much rather only lose a few sentences than whole pages of work.

JasonBourne · Jun 18, 2006, 11:54 PM

I have the same problem my mac book was send for repair. It came to a ponit that no video is showing. My mac book repair is hold waiting for parts. They found the logic board is the problem.They have my macbook for 9 days now. I hope they will send it back this week. Just hoping it will not come to a point of product recall just like the iBook

pat++ · Jun 19, 2006, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Frans

And does anyone know where I can file bugs on the Apple website? Have searched the whole site, but there doesn't seem to be a place where you report a bug...

https://bugreport.apple.com

(you need to create an apple id first if you don't have one).

GreenMnM · Jun 20, 2006, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by seanc

Pop in the mac os x install dvd, restart, hold down the option (alt) key and there should be an option for apple hardware test.

If you have an Intel-based Mac, you can put the install disk/AHT disk in the drive and hold down on the "d" key at startup to go directly to the Apple Hardware Test.

-Doug

Frans · Jun 22, 2006, 03:36 AM

Hi dear forum-helpers,

Short update: the RAM was from Aeon, the shop where I bought 'm has years of good experience with the company.

They've put in 2x1 Gb from Lifetime today, so we're going to see how that works out.

NB: My wife's white MacBook 1,83 Ghz had a problem with our 23" external screen, the MacBook could not recognize it. After a reboot a scheduled BackUp started. So it looks like there is a problem with BackUp 3.01, but her laptop didn't crash like mine did

I've posted the bug with Apple.

powerbook867 · Jun 22, 2006, 10:08 AM

Hope you've got it all worked out Frans. Keep us posted...

Frans · Jun 27, 2006, 03:18 PM

Hi there everyone,

No more crashes so far with the new memory. There still is a flaw in the software that has to do with Backup that causes problems with the external screen, but that's just a bug. So it defenitively looks like a hardware problem, triggered by a software flaw.

Thx very much for the support everyone.

trib22 · Jul 30, 2006, 09:47 PM

I've been having a similar problem to Frans, but WAY MORE OFTEN.

The local Apple Authorized Repair Center swapped out the logic board on my late 2005 PowerBook G4 about six weeks ago. Since then, I've had crashes at a rate of anything from daily to this morning's effort of six in a row, several before getting to the login screen.

Following the advice in this thread, I've done a permissions repair on my HDD and then run the Apple Hardware Test, which came up with a failure of the left rear fan. It won't go any further, so I don't yet know if there are additional problems. At this point, after doing the two mentioned activities, it's all stable (well, for the last hour), but who knows for how long... I'm dreading the prospect of an OS X reinstall (plus all my apps).

Maybe I can get appropriately cranky and get Apple to exchange it for a MacBook Pro (I can only wish).

Anyhow, I've contacted the repair center again, so I guess I'll lose the PowerBook to them for another few days (bleah) once they call me back.

drbrett · Aug 3, 2006, 12:38 AM

We have had 5 brand new Mac Book Pros in our office which are all suffering intermittent kernel panics. Hardware tests showed nothing, system reinstalls did nothing. We have sent all back to Apple for motherboard replacements at no cost to us, even though they were beyond the 14 day DOA period. Apple are replacing the entire computers because the logic boards were out of stock. I think there are some real duds out there, more and more threads are appearing about this, so push Apple hard. (I am writing this on a MacBook Pro purchased earlier than the 5 I mentioned, and apart from running hot, like they all seem to, it is working fine and not crashing, knock-on-wood.)

jamil5454 · Aug 3, 2006, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by drbrett

We have had 5 brand new Mac Book Pros in our office which are all suffering intermittent kernel panics. Hardware tests showed nothing, system reinstalls did nothing. We have sent all back to Apple for motherboard replacements at no cost to us, even though they were beyond the 14 day DOA period. Apple are replacing the entire computers because the logic boards were out of stock. I think there are some real duds out there, more and more threads are appearing about this, so push Apple hard. (I am writing this on a MacBook Pro purchased earlier than the 5 I mentioned, and apart from running hot, like they all seem to, it is working fine and not crashing, knock-on-wood.)

If you got 5/5, either you have REALLY bad luck and should never leave your home, or the software that was installed was causing the kernel panics.

Frans · Aug 6, 2006, 12:05 PM

Sorry to say that it has happened again: spontaneous reboots, crashes of all kind. This morning the weirdest thing so far happened: The fan started running when the CPU-temperature was 45º, and quickly boosted to max speed. It slowed down again and then got to a frantic level I've never experienced before. And a split second later everything went dead.

So, looks like my MacBook has a hardware failure. I'm going to contact Apple tomorrow and ask for a replacement.

masugu · Aug 6, 2006, 04:55 PM

Ack! Good luck Frans. I have expereinced a crash while in sleep / attached to an external monitor. That is, I think it was a crash. Never woke up. I had to re-boot.

When I am surfing the web (with Safari) the browser often quits unexpectedly at cnn.com. Must be running some bad / Mac-unfriendly Java script. Pretty frustrating,

Also had problems running Photoshop CS2. So much so that I uninstalled it. May load photoshop 7.0 to see if it works.

Frans · Aug 30, 2006, 07:12 PM

Turns out I wasn't the only one, the thread continues here:

http://forums.macnn.com/66/ibook-and...udden-shutdown

Frans · Sep 9, 2006, 09:32 AM

And now it's official, so after al its not faulty RAM or software stuff, but just a rather serious design flaw in the MacBook.

The machine is on it's way to Apple and I've bought a white Macbook 1,83 Mhz to be able to work in the meantime....

Serious flaw....

MacBook: Shuts down intermittently
Macbook Random Shutdown

alphasubzero949 · Sep 9, 2006, 10:39 PM

If I had a nickel for every time someone in this (or any Mac) forum suggests repairing permissions as the end-all cure for every problem...

Frans, sorry to hear about your situation but you are far from alone. Apple has only recently acknowledged the RSS issue but have stopped short of issuing a recall. Definitely get in contact with Apple and insist on a replacement.

Frans · Sep 24, 2006, 06:18 AM

Well, the repairing permission surely didn't do the trick for me :-)

Here's what I did: I bought the cheapest white Macbook around, swapped the memory and HD from my black one, and had the black macbook sent to Apple. I can't do my work without a laptop, so I can't wait for a few weeks and have no laptop around. :-(

As it turns out, there is a shortage of parts at Apple, so my Macbook was sent in the 28th of august and there is still no date when it will be fixed. When it get's back I have a white Macbook for sale that's been used for 1,5 months....

F

kennedy · Sep 24, 2006, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Frans

As it turns out, there is a shortage of parts at Apple, so my Macbook was sent in the 28th of august and there is still no date when it will be fixed. When it get's back I have a white Macbook for sale that's been used for 1,5 months....

I'd wait a month or two before putting that white MacBook up for sale... there's a very good chance your repaired MacBook will soon show the RSS problem again.

Then again... if you wait, the white MacBook may start having the RSS problem, dropping its value.