[rach]

I have been really thinking about getting myself a 12 inch Powerbook on Ebay and i have been looking out for one on the Apple refurb website as well. I am not ready to buy now but i could be soon but with all these rumours it is kind of making me hang back on this as well.
I would hate to buy a G4 Powerbook and then Apple release a smaller factor Powerbook. I like the screen size of the 15 inch MBP's but a smaller portable like the Powerbook would be good as well.

[gzeus]

Ultra-portables are a fetishized niche, expensive like sports cars because they are the geek equivalent of sports cars. As Triumph the Insult Comic Dog would say, "All nerds tremble in their very presence."
I atleast hope it will be like the iphone or the vaio ux180p, something that's in an "always on / at your side" mode vs. a laptop experience where you sit down and flip up the lid. Because if it's the latter, then there's probably a less costly solution to the weight problem (I remember our english professor instructing us how to rip out individual plays from the mammoth complete shakespeare we were required to purchase for class. Saved us from toting an extra 5 pounds every mon wed and friday.)

[Frans]

One more analyst gives a prediction for a sub-Macbook, expects it to ship in the second half of 2007...

AppleInsider | BofA echos reports of flash-based Apple sub-notebook in 2H07

[mfbernstein]

30GB of flash-based storage [according to BofA]? Even by the end of '07, that'd cost a pretty penny. Not to mention Apple might have to slim down Leopard a bit in the process.

[mfbernstein]

Not to flog a dead horse (err thread), but Fujitsu's Lifebook P1610 has been announced with a flash option. 16GB for $700 or 32GB for $1200. Suddenly a $230 200GB SATA drive looks like a pretty sweet deal.

Now back to dreaming about an Apple laptop with the same specs as IBM's X60s.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by mfbernstein 

30GB of flash-based storage [according to BofA]? Even by the end of '07, that'd cost a pretty penny. Not to mention Apple might have to slim down Leopard a bit in the process.

30GB of flash is about $266 wholesale for $350 packaged into a drive today. With a bit of competition and flash prices continuing to drop, I'd guess 32GB flash drives will be $200-250 by the end of the year. That's comparable to the price of the 200GB disk currently offered.

[crazeazn]

i'm still waiting for a 12" widescreen replacement that weighs under 4.6lbs....... my powerbook is hitting the 4 year mark and its a bit sluggish.

the macbook is def. out of the option b/c i cant stand the keyboard and the weight.

hurry up apple or ill buy a sony tx!

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by crazeazn 

i'm still waiting for a 12" widescreen replacement that weighs under 4.6lbs....... my powerbook is hitting the 4 year mark and its a bit sluggish.

the macbook is def. out of the option b/c i cant stand the keyboard and the weight.

hurry up apple or ill buy a sony tx!

i got tired of waiting, and bought a new 12" 1.5 G4 powerbook (for anyone interested, b&h audio in ny has some). friends thought i was nuts not to get a macbook or a mbp, but this is what i wanted!

i went from a 1.33g 12". gained a tiny bit of speed, a bigger faster hd (60g 4200>80g 5400), a superdrive, a few other small things, and importantly:
a slightly brighter screen (still pales next to a 15" g4, or a macbook tho), and...less heat. significantly less than my revC 12".

i can do everything i need (mostly logic rewired to reason), so...am good until.

now if only that 'until' happens this year..........

[mfbernstein]

If you're in the market for 12" G4s, Apple refurbs. usually has them once a week or so for a day or two. Quite a bit cheaper than B&H! Also, Daystar now has upgrades to 1.67GHZ, if you really want to stick with your 12" G4 for the long haul.

Still, it's very frustrating. Every time I see the Thinkpad X60, I see the perfect machine modulo OS. Under 4 pounds, 8 hour battery life, great keyboard, and excellent performance. None of this requires any special technological genius or fancy new doodads (flash HDs, OLED screens), merely a judicious use of what's already out there. Heck, considering the price of the X60, Lenovo must have some pretty impressive margins.

I guess Apple prefers to do things their own way though, and in their own time...

[papadopolis]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

How about a subnotebook with a swivel top (or fold-back top) and stylus? That'd be cool.

O were going to use a stylus right. NO. who wants a stylus... you have to get them out put them back..... YUCK!

[Northeastern292]

All of the above. That's all I have to say.

A handheld Mac would be nice (and no cell phone, that's the iPhone's job).

[mfbernstein]

If you're tablet oriented, I guess there's the ModBook. No keyboard yet, though I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to hack something up that fits well with it.

In other news, those solid state drives are finally on the open market. For a cool $500, you too can get a 32GB Samsung drive with no moving parts (well, they were in stock yesterday, but I guess they've already sold out...).

[Frans]

Some news from AppleInsider today suggests some really interesting stuff :-)

Quote:
"What we know:
13-inch ultra-thin, LED-back lit display
No optical disc drive
On-board NAND flash for faster application launching and boot times
Built-in iSight webcam
Thinner and lighter than existing MacBook offerings
AirPort Extreme 802.11n enabled
MagSafe power adapter
Target launch late '07, early '08

What we don't know:
Precise Intel architecture (but appears to be Santa Rosa-based)
Target price point
RAM and HDD storage capacity and expandability
I/O port breakdown
Operating system software (appears to be Leopard)
Expected battery life
Enclosure makeup"

Read the article at:
AppleInsider | Next 'MacBook' update a yawner; Ultra-portable to get 13-inch display

Sounds cool, no?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Sounds cool until you realize it is another cock and bull article form Apple Insider looking for hits and Adsense clicks. 90% of their "insider" leaks haven't come true. Their whole site and income is based on lies and making buddies backstage with Kevin Rose and that fat Smith guy from The Register.

[slugslugslug]

I don't know, I think AI's downslide hasn't been as bad as ThinkSecret's. I think a lot of their sources have dried up lately, but it's still plausible that they have some. Besides the iPhone details, there haven't been that many big surprises from Apple this year, so anything the rumor sites might have gotten right wouldn't be all that memorable.

That said, I've been hoping the MacBook mini is going to happen for real, but I'd actually be a bit disappointed if it had the 13" screen, especially if it comes out after Leopard. I'd rather see a 10- to 12-incher w/extra high pixel density.

At any rate, I don't think I can hold out till fall for a new laptop, so I'll probably get a MacBook after the next minor rev. I can always sell/give it to my girlfriend or a sibling if Steve finally brings out a compelling ultra-portable..

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by slugslugslug 

I don't know, I think AI's downslide hasn't been as bad as ThinkSecret's.

AI steals everything they can from TS. The rest they guess. TS guesses things up to that they credit to insiders. They used to get info before but it has dried up a lot since Apple threatened action.

[slugslugslug]

I guess I'll take your word for it. I'd seemed to recall that AI'd been the less crappy site of late, but the rumor-watching's gotten pretty boring overall. I certainly won't argue about AI's desperation for traffic, what with their breathless reporting of every Apple-related sentence uttered by some schmoe on Wall Street. But I still think both sites are probably getting info from external sources, whatever their reliability, unlike the sheer pipe-dream Makin' **** Up that's gone on for the last several years at macosrumors.com.

[Frans]

Today not only did Apple update it's MacBook Pro's, but Toshiba launched an amazing subnotebook: the Portege R500. Look at these specs:
- 1,09 kg (the MacBook weighs 2,31 kg!)
- a 7mm optical drive
- 12.1-inch 1280 x 800
- 0.77-inches thick
- Core 2 duo U7600 1.2GHz processor
- Intel GMA 950 graphics (mmm)
- up to 2GB of RAM (woehaa)
- 120GB HDD
- PCMCIA slot
- VGA out
- battery life seems to be great, but no hard numbers

Later this year Toshiba will shipping it in a 64GB SSD configuration, they can get the weight even urther down (0,78 kg!!!)

So Apple, where are you?

Link: Toshiba's 12.1-inch Portege R500 is world's thinnest with disc drive - Engadget

[rach]

Whilst the upgrades that Apple did for the 15/17inch MBP were good i am disappointed to not see a smaller factor MBP in the line up. I would snap one up quickly if they released one. I wouldn't even mind if i paid the same or near enough what the entry 15 inch MBP costs.
I have had a 15inch MBP and i would not want one again. The 12inch PB looks so good and they are highly portable as well.
I would trade in my iBook (which i am happy with) only for a sub MBP.
There are other sub notebooks out there but they do not really appeal to me as they are not a Mac.

I doubt that Apple will release a sub notebook now. If they do not at WWDC then i don't think that they will. The MBP range has been out well over a year now and if there was going to be a sub notebook i do think they would have probably released it by now.
I think that they expect people who want a sub notebook to buy a Macbook instead.

[Frans]

Hi Rach,

Looks like you were right, we know now there was no subnotebook announced at WWDC. It's becoming quite annoying, seeing all the other manufacturers pumping out really light stuff with good specs that are really great for travelling. But Apple somehow can't build a Mac laptop that weighs less than 2,3 kg. That's more than twice as heavy as the competition....

Patience is a virtue, right?

[EndlessMac]

What I would like to see is a light weight 15" MBP. I don't like the smaller screen of the 12" but I do like the lighter weight.

[rach]

I am disappointed and a little angry by Apple's lack of a sub pro notebook. I really like their software but in terms of hardware i think that they need to get it together more and bring out some more ranges. They only offer three choices really the Macbook with integrated graphics and the Macbook Pro 15-17. This is not enough they neeed a sub pro notebook in there.

I really want a sub pro notebook at the moment and unfortunetly Apple don't offer one so i have no other alternative to buy one from another manfactuerer. The Dell XPS Santa Rosa model 13 inch will be released soon but that doesn't appeal to me but the Sony SZ does.

[Samanoske]

Originally Posted by phoenix78 

It would be very nice to see a smaller offering from apple even though i personally feel that anything smaller than a 13" mb is too small. Unless you have an ultra high res screen and 20/20 vision you will need to be scrolling up/down and also sideways. That would get unbelievably annoying IMO..

not if you have a resolution independent OS where you could zoom in and out in a multi-touch fashion.

I would love to have a 10-12" ultrathin @ 1kg MBP. wouldn't need to have ultra computing power and neither would it need to have a big harddrive. Good gfx and 30 gig is enough. If one needs more space for certain things - one could plug in an external firewire/USB2 drive.

go apple go !

[rach]

Dell have released their 13inch M1330 now and spec wise and looks wise it does look very good. I have been tempted to buy one but i don't think that i can quite bring myself to buy a Dell. Their marketing has had an impact on how they are viewed today. They also do not have a good reputation either.
Actually I am using a Dell right now that has been loaned to be my somebody. I am using a Dell 500m as i sold of my computers to fund me getting a new one in a couple of weeks. I have to say it is not that bad at all but i still don't think that i could purchase a Dell.

I am going to pick up an Asus W7S in white in a couple of weeks time in America. I have seen this notebook in store and i really like it. This laptop looks a lot better in real life and it is really quite light and it uses a dedicated GPU.

[mduell]

The new M1330 and Inspiron 1520 show that Dell is finally starting to 'get it' again... a year ago all their laptops were thick with integrated graphics (outside of the $2500+ gaming line). The new 1520 provides the same hardware features as the MBP, but $500 cheaper.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The new 1520 provides the same hardware features as the MBP, but $500 cheaper.

Umm, no. Not really.

Actually you can't even spec it to match the 2.4 GHz MBP because Dell only lets you chose a 2.2 GHz C2D. So I tried to match the 2.2 GHz MBP as good as I could.


So the Dell gets me 40 GB more HD, 128MB more VRAM , a year more warranty coverage, and costs $150 less (after taking into account a $292 discount). Yippee.

OTOH it's bulky (a pound heavier than the MBP, 50% thicker than a MBP, one inch more depth), looks like cheap plastic (which it probably also is) and comes with Windows. Thanks. Next please.

[rach]

If you build the base 1520 to exactly the same spec as the 2.2 MBP there is about a $350 difference in price and that does not include any discounts.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon 

So the Dell gets me 40 GB more HD, 128MB more VRAM , a year more warranty coverage, and costs $150 less (after taking into account a $292 discount).

Add AppleCare to even out the warranties and you're to the $500 figure I mentioned.

Or compare to the $2500 MBP, and the Dell is only 200Mhz slower (HD/RAM now match), and $1000 cheaper.

[Frans]

My MacBook HD was filling up rapidly, so I had to choose between a bigger HD or a new computer. Decided on the 15" MBP, what an amazing screen. And still waiting for the razor thin light weight sub-notebook with built in HDSPA modem etc as a second machine. Will use the sync-feature in Leopard to keep both machines in sync.

So still waiting, but calmer.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Frans 

Will use the sync-feature in Leopard to keep both machines in sync.

I missed that. Do you have a link?

[Frans]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I missed that. Do you have a link?

Hi, it's on the Leopard features overview on the Finder (And now, back to my Mac):

Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Features - Finder

Looks amazing...

[PhotoBug]

your sig says your 15" MBP has a 2000GB HD... where can i get one of those suckers? I bet it costs your soul plus your first born child (if you order it from apple).

what would be the point of a "lightbook" if it only had 32 GB of HD? what do you use it for?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Frans' signature

After 18 years of MS-DOS and Windows working very happy on Mac, now on a 15" MacBook Pro 2.2 Ghz - 2Gb memory - 2000 Gb HD with a 20 and 23" screen. I've been waiting for the iPhone for quite a while, let's role it out in Europe. Just one wish left for now: a light mac (2-3 pounds) with 8 hours of working time. They can do it... :-)

Originally Posted by PhotoBug 

your sig says your 15" MBP has a 2000GB HD... where can i get one of those suckers? I bet it costs your soul plus your first born child (if you order it from apple).

Note 2000Gb = 250GB.

[Frans]

hahaha, would LOVE to have a 2000 Gb, but no, typo...

it's a 200 Gb :-)

I've corrected it

F

[Frans]

Ahaaaa, next rumor on the razor thin light weight sub notebook....

Ultra-thin and ulra-light notebook coming before the end of the year - sources | MacScoop

Less than 3 pounds (1,36 kg), about 0.7 inch thick, sounds about right to me. But that 12" screen, mmm, would prefer the 13"...

Release date before the end of the year.

mmm, we'll see about that

[rach]

I don't really believe that rumour at this point or disbelief it but seeing is believing as they say.
Anyway if Apple does release a sub notebook with the rumoured size/weight given it will not have a dedicated GPU therefore it will not be any good to me. It will be like the Toshiba R500.
I would never buy a laptop with integrated graphics. If Apple go down this direction i will just see that laptop as a smaller version of the MacBook. Maybe there will be such a demand for a laptop like the R500 though i don't know. Do you really think that Apple would put two notebooks with integrated graphics out there but one being much more expensive than the other?

I think that they should bring out 13inch notebook with a dedicated GPU failing that or maybe they should bring out both lol.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Frans 

hahaha, would LOVE to have a 2000 Gb, but no, typo...

it's a 200 Gb :-)

b is bits, B is bytes.

You have 200GB HDD and 2GB RAM, not 200Gb HDD and 2Gb RAM.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by rach 

Anyway if Apple does release a sub notebook with the rumoured size/weight given it will not have a dedicated GPU therefore it will not be any good to me.
...
If Apple go down this direction i will just see that laptop as a smaller version of the MacBook.
...
I think that they should bring out 13inch notebook with a dedicated GPU failing that or maybe they should bring out both lol.

I too get the impression such a MB lite would come with integrated graphics. Personally I'm very interested in a sub-notebook, but I'm not ready to sacrifice a lot of performance. An ULV C2D and integrated graphics is going to get you performance way below what the $1099 MB delivers. OTOH the price tag will certainly be closer to the MBP than to the MB. I don't know about everybody else, but I doubt there's a large market for an expensive but low-performing sub MB.

[mfbernstein]

Current Thinkpad X61 offers a regular C2D in a 3.5 lbs package (with extended battery). Given that the Thinkpad is built like a tank, shaving another half pound off is quite doable. Also, none of the benchmarks I've seen of the ULV C2D (1.6GHZ) show it more than 10% slower than a 2GHZ C2D, so a ULV chip would hardly be a tragedy.

The basic fact remains though: Apple hasn't had an ultralight since the 2400C, so if you're waiting, be ready to wait a long time.

[Jasoco]

I'll put my two cents in this topic as I am a new convert to portability after long deciding that I prefer mobility over power I won't use. (i.e. getting a MacBook instead of an iMac because I'd prefer to be comfortable with my computer instead of tied to a desk.)

I just got a MacBook. It's small. Light. Beautiful. I'd have gotten a MacBook Pro if I could afford it, I decided to use the MB as a stepping stone. I had an iBook from 2003 to 2005 which I used exclusively for about half a year. During that time I got a feel for the portability life and liked it. So I decided to work my way up the chain so to speak. If Apple released a slim MacBook Pro/MacBook mini/whatever they want to call it, and priced it reasonably, I'd buy it as my next laptop if the following criteria are met..

15" would be prefered. It can be slim and light and still be a reasonable display size. If not 15", then a 13" with the 15" resolution.

No built-in optical drive. Offer these as BTO add-ons that are USB2.0 powered. The 2400 had it right. When I was first converted to the Mac and looking at old Macs designs and history, I was always attracted to the PowerBook 2400. The one with the small design and optional CD drive as an external add-on. Basically I don't use my optical drive.. much.. at all. I don't watch DVD's on my computer, I rip them, but then I don't need the disc. I only use it when I am installing updates, at which point I'd want to be plugged in anyway. So a dropping of the optical drive to be smaller would not be unwelcome.

If it had flash as its primary drive, would it also have a HD too? I can't live on only 32GB of space. I would want at least, well, at least the option to upgrade to 250GB. But 80 would be the least I'd stand. Flash could be used as just fast booting or whatever, just don't make it primary and only option. I'd prefer not to take a portable HD with me too. It'd defeat the purpose, and I can't fit much on 32GB.

How 'bout some anodized colors? The rebirth of colored computers would be great on metal. Like the iPods. I'd buy a.. red one maybe?

Battery life hasn't ever been a big deal to me as I am never away from a power source. But whatever we can get would be enough for me.

Make it as thin as it can comfortably get with the ports still being usable. USB is pretty thin, FireWire a bit thicker, but Ethernet is very thick, so how about removing the port but offering some special port with an adapter that you can keep separate to allow it to get thinner. You can leave off FW800 if you have to. Hell, you could leave off FW400 if you want. The display mini-DVI would be wanted though. So do what you can with thinness.

The mandatory off-the-wall options..

Swivel fold down display with touch pad for an ultra light ultra thin clipboard-like tablet. Yeah, I know. Still, dreamers make the world go 'round.

If it doesn't come out before the end of next Summer, I'll assume it wasn't gonna happen. No big deal if I end up buying a MacBook Pro in 2~ years instead of a ThinBook.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

Make it as thin as it can comfortably get with the ports still being usable. USB is pretty thin, FireWire a bit thicker, but Ethernet is very thick, so how about removing the port but offering some special port with an adapter that you can keep separate to allow it to get thinner. You can leave off FW800 if you have to. Hell, you could leave off FW400 if you want. The display mini-DVI would be wanted though. So do what you can with thinness.

Noooooooooooooooooooo. Dongles are evil.

[fisherKing]

the 2400c was my first mac (and maybe my fave...altho, of course, my 1.5g 12" powerbook blows it away...

for it's day, it was unbelievably small, light, fast.
i could carry it in one hand, throw it in a backpack, and work anywhere.

of course: external floppy (!), cd, etc.

i have been holding my breath for an equivalent mac for some time (th 12" pb works for me; i want that small, light mbp!)

[PhotoBug]

how do you work with a 12" screen? i cant imagine it.

[Jasoco]

Well, it's 1024x768. A resolution that was quite popular for years. Just smaller than it would have been on a desktop. I used a 12" iBook and a 15" iMac for a while. Both with the same res. It's not unusable.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by PhotoBug 

how do you work with a 12" screen? i cant imagine it.

1280x800 on a 12" screen is about 126 ppi (9% more than the MB's resolution, 14% more than the 15" MBP's). That is indeed a high resolution, but it's still lower than the 17" MBP's HD resolution. And 1280x800 is what all those MB owners work with every day. IMHO if Apple comes out with a really light and thin 12" sub-notebook, 1280x800 would be a decent screen resolution.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by PhotoBug 

how do you work with a 12" screen? i cant imagine it.

i dunno, i've been working with a 12" screen for 3 years; i've done webdesign, some (modest) photoshop work, in design...plus music work.

yes, there's a lot of scrolling involved (and at home am attached to a larger widescreen monitor).
but carrying around a 12" powerbook is a joy.

cmon apple, give us a 12" mbp!!

[PhotoBug]

A 12" does sound fun now that i think about it. some of my older computers have a res thats not that high and i work on them, i guess its the same.

[Jasoco]

I'd still much rather have a thin 13". The same size screen as the MB just more compact with less bordering. I mean the border around the screen on the MB is about 3/4". They could shave 1/2" off that on all sides and get it small while keeping the screen size. Then bump the res and BOOM. You're done.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

Then bump the res and BOOM. You're done.

So what resolution above 1280x800 on that 13" are you thinking of? 1440x900 would be a stellar 131 ppi. That's just about the resolution of the 17" HD config!

[Jasoco]

Yep. That would be the logical next step up.